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EnemyHitman
01-20-2009, 05:05 PM
I need to know if i have fat or water weight...im trying to cut up,m but i need to know if i need to keep doing what im doing, or try to dehydrate my muscles and shed the water weight to cut.

As in mybodyspace you can see the images im just not as cut as i am trying to be.

I have been dieting the past 2 1/2 months trying to lean out my stomach, and cut up my body, especially arms. I have switched my workout routine to working out specific body parts more reps 4 times a week, rather than what i was doin full body workouts monday wed. and friday for 2 years. I can see my abs and feel them under that layer of Fat?Water weight? ANy suggestions?

Oh my diet consists of as low as 700 calories but never exceeds 1500/day i have only lost 1-2 lbs in 2.5 months time. I do cardio 1-2 days a week usually the p90x kenpo exercise which is about 50 minutes of solid cardio. I cant stand running, and biking doesnt burn enough calories.

PLEASE HELP!

jblue2124
01-20-2009, 05:30 PM
700 calories -1500 why do people like starvation

EnemyHitman
01-20-2009, 06:28 PM
who said anything about starvation? I can eat 20 salads a day be full and still have little to no coloric intake.

Kenai603
01-20-2009, 06:56 PM
who said anything about starvation? I can eat 20 salads a day be full and still have little to no coloric intake.

Yeah, we call that starvation.

Kenai603
01-20-2009, 06:58 PM
To keep it short, you need to eat more calories in order to lose fat. Yes, it sounds crazy... but if you're eating 700 calories a day and burning off 1000+ a day in exercise alone (on top of RMR) then your body is going to go into starvation mode. It's going to hold onto every calorie it can get just to keep you alive. And it's going to slow your metabolism as well.

Being "full" has nothing to do with starvation. I can eat sand all day and be full. And I will still starve to death.

Mr.Mexican
01-20-2009, 07:23 PM
I cant stand running

bro not to be mean, but most guys in here, including me dont like doing cardio, but we do it for the results not to actualy enjoy the running. not being mean brah just saying.


To keep it short, you need to eat more calories in order to lose fat. Yes, it sounds crazy... but if you're eating 700 calories a day and burning off 1000+ a day in exercise alone (on top of RMR) then your body is going to go into starvation mode. It's going to hold onto every calorie it can get just to keep you alive. And it's going to slow your metabolism as well.


^^^^ this ^^^^^

EnemyHitman
01-21-2009, 05:14 AM
then why does it state that in order to burn 1 lb of fat you must burn 3500 cals over your daily intake?

thehopelessone
01-21-2009, 05:20 AM
your meant to burn that 3500 cals over the course of a week bro.. not a day.. Just eat 500 calories below your maintenance calories and thatd be 3500 in a week. Way better+healthier and you could keep more stomach than what your doing now.

500 calories below maintenance per day x 7 days a week = 3500 :D

Kenai603
01-21-2009, 05:31 AM
then why does it state that in order to burn 1 lb of fat you must burn 3500 cals over your daily intake?

Yes, it's true that 3500 calories = 1lb of fat. But guess how many calories you need to burn to lose 1lb of muscle? 600. So if you aren't taking in enough calories then your body will go catabolic. And those 3500 calories you burn could end up being 5 - 6 pounds of muscle mass.

Do you think you can really just eat 500 calories per day, burn 2000 more calories in exercise, plus whatever your RMR is, and magically lose 7 - 14 pounds of pure fat every week?

Don't you think that if it were that simple, people would simply go on a crash diet and not eat anything for a few days to lose fat and get cut? There's a reason they don't do it that way. There's a reason that the average healthy person will only try to lose 2 pounds of fat or so per week.

You need calories to survive. Bottom line. Even if you were in a coma and not waking up or moving all day, your body still needs a certain number of calories per day simply to survive. If you start taking in less than that, then your body will start using fat and muscle to make up for the deficit. As the deficit gets more extreme, your body starts to think that you are going to starve to death, so your body starts to change.

Because it thinks it's starving, your body will start slowing down your metabolism. That's not exactly a good thing when you're trying to lose weight.

Next, your body will start to hold onto every calorie it can get and store it because again, it thinks you are starving to death and will need the energy to survive later. As you can imagine, this isn't very helpful for losing fat either.

Also, your body starts to get rid of stuff that it doesn't need. You know something? Muscle is HEAVY! Carrying around all that extra weight is causing you to burn more calories. So your body decides to get rid of the muscle. Not only does it mean less weight to carry around, but it can also get calories from burning the muscle! 600 calories per pound. As far as your body is concerned, that's a great deal! It's a win-win situation for your body. But if you're trying to lose fat and keep muscle, then not so much.

But wait, can't you just lift weights to keep muscle mass? Well you can try, but the bottom line is that you simply won't have enough energy to lift heavy enough to maintain any muscle. And even if you can at first (in the early stages), you won't have the calories or protein to repair the damage. If you're eating 700 calories per day, even if it's 100% protein and no carbs or fat, you're still only talking 275g of protein... not gonna cut it.

I won't even get into the lack of vitamins and minerals.

Sure, you can temporarily lose weight that way, but as soon as you eat, even what was considered a reasonable amount) you're going to put on the weight faster than you took it off. And not only that, but you are going to feel like **** and look like ****. And by the time you realize you screwed up, you're going to have one hell of an uphill battle just to get back to where you were before you decided to do some stupid crash diet in the first place.

EnemyHitman
01-21-2009, 09:36 AM
what none of you understand is if i keep eating 2500 cals a day like i have been for the past 3 years, then im not changing anything.

That would not be a diet?

Im not grasping the fact that my body stays the same rather i eat cheat meals or eat broccoli, lean chicken brests, fruits, oatmeal, and high protein.

Noone has answered rather its fat or water weight either, if its fat i need to change my diet, if its water weight, i need to rid my body of it somehow.





183lbs, hardly any cuts or vascularity, 23years old...
Any help would be highly appreciated on how to achieve this. Im currently taking lipo6, and know my heartrate should be between 118-138 BPM to burn fat.

Point is after 2.5 months of eating low calorie very low carb diet, consisting of salads,turkey sandwiches, lean chicken breasts, skim milk or water with my protein shakes, fruit, and frosted flakes for breakfast. Usually only eat 5 times a day, very light small meals from 150-300 cals...shouldnt i have seen a big difference from my normal eating habits??

newgene
01-21-2009, 09:50 AM
what none of you understand is if i keep eating 2500 cals a day like i have been for the past 3 years, then im not changing anything.

That would not be a diet?

Im not grasping the fact that my body stays the same rather i eat cheat meals or eat broccoli, lean chicken brests, fruits, oatmeal, and high protein.

Noone has answered rather its fat or water weight either, if its fat i need to change my diet, if its water weight, i need to rid my body of it somehow.





183lbs, hardly any cuts or vascularity, 23years old...
Any help would be highly appreciated on how to achieve this. Im currently taking lipo6, and know my heartrate should be between 118-138 BPM to burn fat.

Point is after 2.5 months of eating low calorie very low carb diet, consisting of salads,turkey sandwiches, lean chicken breasts, skim milk or water with my protein shakes, fruit, and frosted flakes for breakfast. Usually only eat 5 times a day, very light small meals from 150-300 cals...shouldnt i have seen a big difference from my normal eating habits??

Cut your sodium intake down to almost zero. You can also increase your potassium levels to help with water loss (research this first for health reasons). Once you do this, you should have a good idea if it was water or not. Now, you'll have to find the best way to do this that works for you. However, if you want to know if you have fat or water, run the water out, and then you'll know by judging what's left. Just don't dehydrate yourself to a dangerous level.

As for not losing fat on at starvation levels, that tends to happen. That is the case and point as to why those types of diets don't work. What is happening is your body has essentially canibalized muscle and reduced its metabolism to survive on the lower calorie levels. That is the reason why you probably feel like you have no energy. I would increase calories, but do them on a very clean basis. Lots of vegetables, whole grains, low-fat dairy, fish, and lean meats should be a staple. Let your body take in extra energy (calories), but give it enough time to use the energy, instead of storing it. Keeping stable insulin levels will allow you to put the muscle on without adding the extra fat. Sodium vs. Potassium and total sodium levels are the key to running the water out.

I hope all this makes sense.

newgene
01-21-2009, 09:56 AM
Yes, it's true that 3500 calories = 1lb of fat. But guess how many calories you need to burn to lose 1lb of muscle? 600. So if you aren't taking in enough calories then your body will go catabolic. And those 3500 calories you burn could end up being 5 - 6 pounds of muscle mass.


Didn't realize that. I would have thought it would take around 1800 calories to consume one pound of muscle (454 x 4). I guess muscle is somehow easier to break down than protein. Never really thought about it.



Sure, you can temporarily lose weight that way, but as soon as you eat, even what was considered a reasonable amount) you're going to put on the weight faster than you took it off. And not only that, but you are going to feel like **** and look like ****. And by the time you realize you screwed up, you're going to have one hell of an uphill battle just to get back to where you were before you decided to do some stupid crash diet in the first place.

Couldn't agree with that more. It's like a yo-yo where you lose the muscle, and then you go back to your original weight, minus the muscle. I know I felt terrible the few times I have "accidentally" dieted like that.

opucknarf
01-21-2009, 09:59 AM
what none of you understand is if i keep eating 2500 cals a day like i have been for the past 3 years, then im not changing anything.

That would not be a diet?

Im not grasping the fact that my body stays the same rather i eat cheat meals or eat broccoli, lean chicken brests, fruits, oatmeal, and high protein.

Noone has answered rather its fat or water weight either, if its fat i need to change my diet, if its water weight, i need to rid my body of it somehow.





183lbs, hardly any cuts or vascularity, 23years old...
Any help would be highly appreciated on how to achieve this. Im currently taking lipo6, and know my heartrate should be between 118-138 BPM to burn fat.

Point is after 2.5 months of eating low calorie very low carb diet, consisting of salads,turkey sandwiches, lean chicken breasts, skim milk or water with my protein shakes, fruit, and frosted flakes for breakfast. Usually only eat 5 times a day, very light small meals from 150-300 cals...shouldnt i have seen a big difference from my normal eating habits??

if you used to eat 2500 calories to get through a day, then take away 500 which would be 2000. IMO thats still not enough calories, throw in some cardio it will help out, but listen, what everyone here is telling you is pretty true. i know from experience, ive put my body into starvation mode before, it held on to every calorie i gave it. a good signal of slowed metabolism and your body being in starvation mode is bowl consistancy. when i went into starvation mode i literally didnt s**t for 6 days, why? because my body saved all the food i gave it. i gained weight pretty fast, and i was working harder than you can believe in the gym, and biking long distances and doing a lot of running. guess what too, i was taking in about 1800 calories per day, and that was enough of a deficit for my body to go in2 starvation, your taking in 700!!!??? thats beond starvation... why do you think youve lost 2.5 pounds in 2 months? thats NOTHING you can lose 1-2 pounds per week if you do it right... you need more food. plain and simple. thats why your not seeing results.

Kenai603
01-21-2009, 10:03 AM
what none of you understand is if i keep eating 2500 cals a day like i have been for the past 3 years, then im not changing anything.

That would not be a diet?

Im not grasping the fact that my body stays the same rather i eat cheat meals or eat broccoli, lean chicken brests, fruits, oatmeal, and high protein.

Noone has answered rather its fat or water weight either, if its fat i need to change my diet, if its water weight, i need to rid my body of it somehow.





183lbs, hardly any cuts or vascularity, 23years old...
Any help would be highly appreciated on how to achieve this. Im currently taking lipo6, and know my heartrate should be between 118-138 BPM to burn fat.

Point is after 2.5 months of eating low calorie very low carb diet, consisting of salads,turkey sandwiches, lean chicken breasts, skim milk or water with my protein shakes, fruit, and frosted flakes for breakfast. Usually only eat 5 times a day, very light small meals from 150-300 cals...shouldnt i have seen a big difference from my normal eating habits??

You're right. 2500 calories is most likely too much as well. But 700 - 1000 is too little. Why would you go from one extreme to the other? You should probably be eating about 2000 or so clean calories with a 40/40/20 macro split. And lose the frosted flakes or other empty carbs / sugar like that. You couldn't possibly have a "very low carb" diet if you were drinking milk, eating frosted flakes, and eating sandwiches with bread.

It could be water, but it's most of it is probably fat. I don't see any reason why you'd be retaining so much water.

As far as seeing a big difference... you're not going to see a huge difference if you're doing it wrong. Especially if your body is holding on to fat and burning up muscle in starvation mode. The scale may not change much at all at first, until it all catches up to you. And then you won't like what you see.

Either way, it sounds like you already know what you want to do and you're just waiting for someone to come along and agree. I doubt you'll find anyone anywhere that will say eating so little is a good way to lose fat.

If done correctly, you can easily lose 2 pounds of pure fat per week with no problems. No energy loss, no starvation, nothing. And you'll have more energy while doing this. Or you can keep doing what you're doing and go absolutely nowhere. Afterall, you're the one that said it has been 2.5 months and yet you haven't see any results. Meanwhile, in that same exact time period, others have done it properly and lost 20lbs of fat (myself included.)

EnemyHitman
01-21-2009, 10:04 AM
yea man it does a little bit... so basically i have to not consume any sodium, and ill lose the water weight?


Also taking in what everyone has told me, id like to know what my daily caloric intake should be at for my size and age, taking into consideration most of my size is muscle mass? (i think)



***Can someone please give me the amount of calories i should be eating and amount of calories i should be burning daily to see the results?

EnemyHitman
01-21-2009, 10:08 AM
You're right. 2500 calories is most likely too much as well. But 700 - 1000 is too little. Why would you go from one extreme to the other? You should probably be eating about 2000 or so clean calories with a 40/40/20 macro split. And lose the frosted flakes or other empty carbs / sugar like that. You couldn't possibly have a "very low carb" diet if you were drinking milk, eating frosted flakes, and eating sandwiches with bread.

It could be water, but it's most of it is probably fat. I don't see any reason why you'd be retaining so much water.

As far as seeing a big difference... you're not going to see a huge difference if you're doing it wrong. Especially if your body is holding on to fat and burning up muscle in starvation mode. The scale may not change much at all at first, until it all catches up to you. And then you won't like what you see.

Either way, it sounds like you already know what you want to do and you're just waiting for someone to come along and agree. I doubt you'll find anyone anywhere that will say eating so little is a good way to lose fat.

If done correctly, you can easily lose 2 pounds of pure fat per week with no problems. No energy loss, no starvation, nothing. And you'll have more energy while doing this. Or you can keep doing what you're doing and go absolutely nowhere. Afterall, you're the one that said it has been 2.5 months and yet you haven't see any results. Meanwhile, in that same exact time period, others have done it properly and lost 20lbs of fat (myself included.)

this is why im here asking for ways to lose, because the diet i have been is not working for me, so yes i am looking for ways to change it up and to see the results.

Mr.Mexican
01-21-2009, 10:11 AM
bro u gotta go easy with it man, to tell u the truch i have just been eating clean, not really watching my calories just eating clean and working out everyday at least 1 hour of cardio(running) and every other day 1 hours of weight lifting. and i have been losing 1.5 pounds a week

1.5 lb= 1 week
3 lbs = 2 weeks
6lbs= every month.

my point is, why dont u just relax a bit and give ur body more calories comming from clean foods, and then do ur cardio and lifting and see how your body reacts. there is no certain amount of calories you should be taken, to manny factos to determine that bro so experiment.

newgene
01-21-2009, 10:17 AM
yea man it does a little bit... so basically i have to not consume any sodium, and ill lose the water weight?


Also taking in what everyone has told me, id like to know what my daily caloric intake should be at for my size and age, taking into consideration most of my size is muscle mass? (i think)



***Can someone please give me the amount of calories i should be eating and amount of calories i should be burning daily to see the results?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa64.htm

Kenai603
01-21-2009, 10:19 AM
this is why im here asking for ways to lose, because the diet i have been is not working for me, so yes i am looking for ways to change it up and to see the results.

I sent a PM detailing what I did. For your height and weight, your caloric intake and exercise should be right around what I was when i started. I'd suspect you would want to take in about 1900 calories per day (clean calories) and then burn an additional 500 - 600 calories on top of that. That should give you a steady 2lbs per week (roughly.)

Of course, every person is slightly different so you may need to tweak it a bit, but that should get you in the ballpark.

EnemyHitman
01-21-2009, 10:47 AM
thanks guys i think ill try working on stepping up my cardio, and eating more calories and see where that takes me...

In a typical weight training workut, how many calories do you normally burn?

How much cardio at least should i be doing per day?

yoplait311
01-21-2009, 10:59 AM
Just because I read your coment about "cycling not burning amny calories"...you'd be very surprised then.

When I get a chance to bike outside (road bike, around 15-18mph) I burn about 600-700 calories an hour.

When I take a spin class, I burn about 500-600 calories an hour- plus the time goes by fast. So, maybe you should force yourself to simply enjoy the cardio a bit more.

By the way, I wear my heart rate monitor while I do cardio so I know exactly how much I burn. Swimming, cycling, and running are all very close in a burn per hour- ackowledging that you keep up the tempo and pace!

Good luck though. I know it can be frustrating! Just have patience and remember to take everything in moderation- inluding moderation.

Enjoy life!

EnemyHitman
01-21-2009, 11:09 AM
Yea i say that because at the gym, i get on the bike machine, put on an incline, and i was on it for 20 minutes only burned about 60 calories. Running id have burned more than twice that...so id have to stay on the bike a lot longer to achieve similar results.

dragonaut
01-21-2009, 11:49 AM
something in your numbers doesn't seem right, it is virtually impossible that in 10 weeks of eating about 1000 calories on average, you lost only a couple of pounds

I have a similar frame and when i hit 1300 calories a week, the weight start to drop more than 2 lbs a week (without cardio, just lifting)

are you sure you are tracking to the T your calories? I mean weighting ALL YOUR FOOD to the exact ounces and grams and logging it , watch out for the dressings in the salads, they are sometimes loaded with calories

my take is that you are underestimating the amount of food you are eating, because the numbers don't add up here

and about the water retention, if you have been low carbing, that's not the problem

it's not enough to measure food in cups, bowls tbs etc, those measurements can throw the numbers off, is oz and grams -digital scale

divinewords
01-21-2009, 01:00 PM
Your body is made up of mainly water. Your brain is made up of 75% water. Dehydrating yourself is not going to make you healthier. Low carb/high protein diets actually dehydrate you--which is not good. Carbs are your body's main source of energy. When you don't have enough carbohydrate, your body turns protein into a carbohydrate by knocking off a nitrogen ion. Those nitrogen ions must be flushed out of your body--hence, you lose water trying to flush out the toxic nitrogen levels in your body. Your body cannot tell the difference between protein that you eat and protein in your muscles, so you actually start to lose lean mass and you get dehydrated. Let unrefined and complex carbs make up about 45% of your diet. And dude--whoa--700 calories a day?! I am surprised you can even stand upright! I am a female 5'2 who works out religiously 5-6 days a week and I have to eat about 3000 calories just to maintain my current muscle mass. You need to up your calories, drink more water, and up your complex and unrefined carb intake. I promise you that you will see better results. If you don't add more calories, your body is going to think you are starving and hold onto every ounce of fat possible. 700 calories is far too low and very unhealthy. Go ask a real body builder and they will tell you that they have to take in a lot of calories to build muscle mass. Try an endurace style work out (lower weight, more reps, 30 sec rest between) and start eating enough calories. Your body will build muscle mass while burning calories. Once you burn the fat, you can go back to your hypertrophy style workout, which focuses more on strength (higher weight, lower reps). I would also suggest going to a nutritionist and or personal trainer and have them do a Total Daily Needs and diet accessment. That way you don't have to do so much guess work. Don't starve and dehydrate yourself. You'll realize in the end you'll do more damage than good.

divinewords
01-21-2009, 01:01 PM
what none of you understand is if i keep eating 2500 cals a day like i have been for the past 3 years, then im not changing anything.

That would not be a diet?

Im not grasping the fact that my body stays the same rather i eat cheat meals or eat broccoli, lean chicken brests, fruits, oatmeal, and high protein.

Noone has answered rather its fat or water weight either, if its fat i need to change my diet, if its water weight, i need to rid my body of it somehow.





183lbs, hardly any cuts or vascularity, 23years old...
Any help would be highly appreciated on how to achieve this. Im currently taking lipo6, and know my heartrate should be between 118-138 BPM to burn fat.

Point is after 2.5 months of eating low calorie very low carb diet, consisting of salads,turkey sandwiches, lean chicken breasts, skim milk or water with my protein shakes, fruit, and frosted flakes for breakfast. Usually only eat 5 times a day, very light small meals from 150-300 cals...shouldnt i have seen a big difference from my normal eating habits??
Your body is made up of mainly water. Your brain is made up of 75% water. Dehydrating yourself is not going to make you healthier. Low carb/high protein diets actually dehydrate you--which is not good. Carbs are your body's main source of energy. When you don't have enough carbohydrate, your body turns protein into a carbohydrate by knocking off a nitrogen ion. Those nitrogen ions must be flushed out of your body--hence, you lose water trying to flush out the toxic nitrogen levels in your body. Your body cannot tell the difference between protein that you eat and protein in your muscles, so you actually start to lose lean mass and you get dehydrated. Let unrefined and complex carbs make up about 45% of your diet. And dude--whoa--700 calories a day?! I am surprised you can even stand upright! I am a female 5'2 who works out religiously 5-6 days a week and I have to eat about 3000 calories just to maintain my current muscle mass. You need to up your calories, drink more water, and up your complex and unrefined carb intake. I promise you that you will see better results. If you don't add more calories, your body is going to think you are starving and hold onto every ounce of fat possible. 700 calories is far too low and very unhealthy. Go ask a real body builder and they will tell you that they have to take in a lot of calories to build muscle mass. Try an endurace style work out (lower weight, more reps, 30 sec rest between) and start eating enough calories. Your body will build muscle mass while burning calories. Once you burn the fat, you can go back to your hypertrophy style workout, which focuses more on strength (higher weight, lower reps). I would also suggest going to a nutritionist and or personal trainer and have them do a Total Daily Needs and diet accessment. That way you don't have to do so much guess work. Don't starve and dehydrate yourself. You'll realize in the end you'll do more damage than good.

kilword
01-21-2009, 04:00 PM
Yea i say that because at the gym, i get on the bike machine, put on an incline, and i was on it for 20 minutes only burned about 60 calories. Running id have burned more than twice that...so id have to stay on the bike a lot longer to achieve similar results.

get off the bike and on a elliptical or something in 30 mins of low intensity cardio on one I burn 410 calories. heart rate around 135-140ish.

honeynut
01-21-2009, 04:24 PM
I recommend cutting salt, dairy and gluten from your diet for a week (plus soft drinks/sodas if you drink them) and making sure you drink at least 2 l of water a day plus 1l minimum when you're training. Increasing your water intake while cutting out ingredients that cause bloating should help you get a better idea of whether its water weight or fat. Green tea is a good diuretic that is mildly thermogenic.

Nore
01-22-2009, 07:32 AM
I sent a PM detailing what I did. For your height and weight, your caloric intake and exercise should be right around what I was when i started. I'd suspect you would want to take in about 1900 calories per day (clean calories) and then burn an additional 500 - 600 calories on top of that. That should give you a steady 2lbs per week (roughly.)

Of course, every person is slightly different so you may need to tweak it a bit, but that should get you in the ballpark.

I read your profile and it says you started out at 200 pounds, you're 6'2, and 31 years of age. I'm at 202, 6'2, and 29. I know every body is different, but I'm taking in anywhere between 1900-2200 cals a day, workout 4-5 days a week, but I have seemed to plateau at 202-204 for the past 3 weeks.

What would you recommend doing?

I lift 3x a week and spend a 4th day spinning ... all workouts between 45 - 60 minutes.

Djin
01-22-2009, 07:49 AM
who said anything about starvation? I can eat 20 salads a day be full and still have little to no coloric intake.


Yeah... and salad provides nothing. Maybe a few things, but ****...

EnemyHitman
01-22-2009, 05:00 PM
The reason i cut my caloric intake so lo is because i used to workout 3-5 days a week, taking in 1800-2300 cals per day, and i never burned the fat... my weight doesnt change and i maintain, The 700 calories was i think one day, only because i was told to try and do a zig zag cutting diet, where you intake 1500 calories for a couple days, then go low for a day or two, and its supposed to burn the fat because your body gets used to the higher calorie intake making up for the deficit burns away fat...is this true? This is what i been doing, all you say i need to up my calories, but i DONT LOSE WEIGHT at a higher caloric intake, i mean everyones different, but i have stepped up my cardio more the past few days and will continue to because i want the results to show before spring/summer.


GOAL: to get my abs to POP

Djin
01-23-2009, 06:06 AM
The reason i cut my caloric intake so lo is because i used to workout 3-5 days a week, taking in 1800-2300 cals per day, and i never burned the fat... my weight doesnt change and i maintain, The 700 calories was i think one day, only because i was told to try and do a zig zag cutting diet, where you intake 1500 calories for a couple days, then go low for a day or two, and its supposed to burn the fat because your body gets used to the higher calorie intake making up for the deficit burns away fat...is this true? This is what i been doing, all you say i need to up my calories, but i DONT LOSE WEIGHT at a higher caloric intake, i mean everyones different, but i have stepped up my cardio more the past few days and will continue to because i want the results to show before spring/summer.


GOAL: to get my abs to POP

Nonetheless, good luck on your cut.

under45mins
01-23-2009, 07:30 AM
i don't want to start a new thread because i'm hoping i get enough suggestions on here because this seemed like a similar thread...

i've been working out for the past month to six weeks (seriously after 10 years) and have only 1/2 inch and 2% body fat loss to show for it. i feel like it should be more with all the work i'm doing. and i feel like it is because i'm not eating enough calories in a day.

December 20th: 5'11, 174 lbs. waist:38"
january 20th: 174 lbs. waist:37.5"

my average food day:

meal 1: 2 fist full of almonds with a teaspoon of dates and yellow raisins with 1/4 cup of 2% milk.

meal 2: 2 hard boiled eggs (with water)

meal 3: 1 small can of tuna with 2 slices of american cheese on 2 pieces of wheat bread (with water)

meal 4: 1/2 RDT mayoplex protien shake

meal 5: whole wheat pasta or almonds again (with water)

meal 6: 1/2 RDT mayoplex protein shake and a bowl of good cereal (after workout usually at 10 PM and go to sleep at 12:00 AM)

maybe i'm not drinking enough water? or maybe i'm playing too much basketball (cardio)? i do have a cheat day. one day a week where i eat a cheeseburger from five guys (lil cheeseburger with arnold palmer)

day 1: chest-tri...
day 2: basketball, yoga
day 3: bi's-back
day 4: basketball, yoga
day 5: shoulders, legs
day 6: basketball
day 7: nothing...

i have gained a ton of strength though relatively speaking and have a good stamina. went from people asking me if i was a smoker to people wanting advice on what i do to be an energizer bunny...

or is this normal? any help would be greatly appreciated. also i don't like to waste my time in the workout room. i'm either super setting or alternating between legs and shoulders.

EnemyHitman
01-23-2009, 10:44 AM
yea now i just want to say **** cutting because I still dont know what my daily caloric intake should be at to burn fat, and how much cardio i need to do.

Can someone please answer this yet?

Djin
01-23-2009, 10:46 AM
yea now i just want to say **** cutting because I still dont know what my daily caloric intake should be at to burn fat, and how much cardio i need to do.

Can someone please answer this yet?

Subtract 500 calories from your maintence level.

Do LI cardio, lift weights, keep your protein high.

Sometimes I wonder if you're joking...?

EnemyHitman
01-23-2009, 10:55 AM
so thats 2800 calories a day ... i guess well see how it goes... ill post results next month and see where were at.

thanks everyone.

adwilk
01-23-2009, 11:09 AM
so thats 2800 calories a day ... i guess well see how it goes... ill post results next month and see where were at.

thanks everyone.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how you progress... For the record, HEALTHY amounts of water weight will show up on the scale but really shouldnt keep you from looking cut.. sure, there is a difference, but you'd see the body you wanted carrying extra water if you had the body wanted. Sounds like you've hit a plateau of sorts.. Doesnt really matter what you do, you need a change..

If I were you, and i'm sure i'll get grilled for this, take two weeks off. Eat your maintenance or a little more... and eat all day long... Literally just snack all day and keep track of the clean calories. This should get the metabolism going again and reset your hormonal levels.

YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT YOUR BF% and BMR. When your positive of these two numbers, you can really zero in on a great diet. A lot of people can just get kind of close and get great results. It sounds like you lost the genetic lottery of sorts and every detail is gonna count with you.

I have a pretty hard time buying into the "starvation" argument in a lot of cases. A few days with two low calories doesnt help your metabolism but it takes some extreme conditions for your body to "eat" itself. That said, you were really pushing it. What you were doing was not healthy and you probably stayed fairly catabolic. not a good situation. Especially working hard in the gym.

Take a step back, evaluate what you've done, make some changes, and evaluate again. This is a lifelong battle to find what works my friend... Negative Results are still results. Get that body fat checked out and work to improve that... water weight is technically lean mass so you'll figure out really quick if your losing fat...

Djin
01-23-2009, 11:12 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa64.htm

Read it, understand it, fill the blanks in.

This will tell you your BMR and other neat things.

adwilk
01-23-2009, 11:18 AM
i don't want to start a new thread because i'm hoping i get enough suggestions on here because this seemed like a similar thread...

i've been working out for the past month to six weeks (seriously after 10 years) and have only 1/2 inch and 2% body fat loss to show for it. i feel like it should be more with all the work i'm doing. and i feel like it is because i'm not eating enough calories in a day.

December 20th: 5'11, 174 lbs. waist:38"
january 20th: 174 lbs. waist:37.5"

my average food day:

meal 1: 2 fist full of almonds with a teaspoon of dates and yellow raisins with 1/4 cup of 2% milk.

meal 2: 2 hard boiled eggs (with water)

meal 3: 1 small can of tuna with 2 slices of american cheese on 2 pieces of wheat bread (with water)

meal 4: 1/2 RDT mayoplex protien shake

meal 5: whole wheat pasta or almonds again (with water)

meal 6: 1/2 RDT mayoplex protein shake and a bowl of good cereal (after workout usually at 10 PM and go to sleep at 12:00 AM)

maybe i'm not drinking enough water? or maybe i'm playing too much basketball (cardio)? i do have a cheat day. one day a week where i eat a cheeseburger from five guys (lil cheeseburger with arnold palmer)

day 1: chest-tri...
day 2: basketball, yoga
day 3: bi's-back
day 4: basketball, yoga
day 5: shoulders, legs
day 6: basketball
day 7: nothing...

i have gained a ton of strength though relatively speaking and have a good stamina. went from people asking me if i was a smoker to people wanting advice on what i do to be an energizer bunny...

or is this normal? any help would be greatly appreciated. also i don't like to waste my time in the workout room. i'm either super setting or alternating between legs and shoulders.

Sounds like you're on the right track... thats really not too bad in just a month to six weeks..... I hate to play this card, but your age has something to do with it. It just takes a little bit longer for your body to respond. Its liked what its done the past 10 years and it wants to make sure you're in it for the long hall before its gonna make the changes. that seems oversimplified and a little cartoonish, but it is true. Its gonna take some time for your body to react the way you want it to, but when it does, you'll progress nicely. I'm not saying your old or anything like that, I promise, but a 20-25 year old has the advantage.

For someone in your position, I HIGHLY recommend some heavy leg stuff. Lower reps and heavy squats... you'll also benefit from using a stair climber for your cardio at high resistance... I also recommend some plyometrics. These exercises will get those large muscles in the legs burning and require the hormone production that will burn fat and build muscle a little easier. Good for you for doing yoga...

mfnb
01-23-2009, 11:18 AM
so thats 2800 calories a day ... i guess well see how it goes... ill post results next month and see where were at.

thanks everyone.

You will probably gain some weight. If you were eating 700 calories a day before (considering you are doing that for some months at least) then you are probably under starvation mode and with low level of energy, and burning a small amount of calories.

What will happen if you start eating now 2800? You will gain weight, but you will also after a few weeks start speeding up your metabolism burning more calories and allowing you to start losing again weight.


Basically you damaged your metabolism and now you need to eat and gain weight to be able to lose more weight later (like gaining 5Kg to lose 15Kg).

I'm not an expert and i'm fighting against that too, and if i'm wrong please someone correct me but that's what i think that will(and need to) happen.

ZidaneValor
01-23-2009, 12:25 PM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa64.htm

Read it, understand it, fill the blanks in.

This will tell you your BMR and other neat things.

If I am a 363 lb. male:
BMR = 1 * 24 * (363 / 2.2) * 0.85 = 3366
Daily Caloric Expenditure = 3366 * 1.65 = 5,553 calories
(1.65 since I do 2 hours of weight lifting/cardio at 150 BPM five-six days a week).

I don't think that's accurate.

under45mins
01-23-2009, 12:26 PM
okay now i feel like i sorta hijacked this thread but i was so sure the owner of this thread was done...that we had come to a conclusion ;). sorry about that hitman! i hope you don't mind sharing and i won't do it again.

adwilk, thank you so much for those encouraging words. i just didn't want to end up paying for a goddang trainer or "team" that my gym is selling by panicing. i really feel good but i want to be as efficient as possible without being on an unrealistic diet and workout regimen (for me). i guess it'll just take a bit longer...i don't mind.

regarding the yoga, it's funny i never ever thought i'd do it privately let alone step in a studio but i wasn't at all flexible (bottom 1 percent for my age) and my wife mentioned said that this instructor was good so i loved the way i felt after one hour session so i just keep going.

keninverse
01-23-2009, 12:56 PM
So no one in this thread is going to mention HIIT? I'm a hardgainer but when I did start a slow clean bulk I put on a lot of fat. The only was I shed the fat while sparing muscle was HIIT.

Djin
01-23-2009, 01:05 PM
If I am a 363 lb. male:
BMR = 1 * 24 * (363 / 2.2) * 0.85 = 3366
Daily Caloric Expenditure = 3366 * 1.65 = 5,553 calories
(1.65 since I do 2 hours of weight lifting/cardio at 150 BPM five-six days a week).

I don't think that's accurate.

Did you use the calculator? And are you saying you are a body builder? I mean, don't bull**** yourself...

ZidaneValor
01-23-2009, 01:27 PM
Did you use the calculator? And are you saying you are a body builder? I mean, don't bull**** yourself...

Bodybuilding.com - Results Of Your Entries
Your bodyweight is 165 kilograms.

Step 1 - BMR Based On Weight
For Men: 1 x 165 Kg x 24 = 3952

Step 2 - BMR With Bodyfat Percentage Calculation
Taking your bodyfat percentage into account, your adjusted BMR is 3359 calories per day. This is equal to 140 calories per hour.

Step 3 - Total Daily Calories Burned
Adding in your activity level, we times your BMR by 1.65. This means that your approximate total calories burned each day is 5542.

Step 4 - Macronutrient Breakdown In YOUR Diet
Now that we know how many total calories need to be consumed each day, where do the calories come from? Based on your BMR, Activity Level and Athletic Category you need:

Protein Grams: 326 Grams Per Day.
Protein Calories: 1304 Protein Calories Per Day.

Fat Grams: 92 Grams Per Day.
Fat Calories: 831 *Fat* Calories Per Day. *(Typo in the calulator says protein instead of fat)

Carbohydrate Grams: 852 Grams Per Day.
Carbohydrate Calories: 3407 Carb Calories Per Day.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the calculator, I should be eating 5542 calories on a 23.5/61.5/15 split, lol.

3359 sounds about right, so maybe you should just take the projected BMR and forget about the activity multiplier.

Note: Three other BMR calculators put me in the 3050-3100 range.

I think I will stick to my 43/38/19 split at 3220 calories for now.

Djin
01-23-2009, 02:23 PM
Bodybuilding.com - Results Of Your Entries
Your bodyweight is 165 kilograms.

Step 1 - BMR Based On Weight
For Men: 1 x 165 Kg x 24 = 3952

Step 2 - BMR With Bodyfat Percentage Calculation
Taking your bodyfat percentage into account, your adjusted BMR is 3359 calories per day. This is equal to 140 calories per hour.

Step 3 - Total Daily Calories Burned
Adding in your activity level, we times your BMR by 1.65. This means that your approximate total calories burned each day is 5542.

Step 4 - Macronutrient Breakdown In YOUR Diet
Now that we know how many total calories need to be consumed each day, where do the calories come from? Based on your BMR, Activity Level and Athletic Category you need:

Protein Grams: 326 Grams Per Day.
Protein Calories: 1304 Protein Calories Per Day.

Fat Grams: 92 Grams Per Day.
Fat Calories: 831 *Fat* Calories Per Day. *(Typo in the calulator says protein instead of fat)

Carbohydrate Grams: 852 Grams Per Day.
Carbohydrate Calories: 3407 Carb Calories Per Day.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the calculator, I should be eating 5542 calories on a 23.5/61.5/15 split, lol.

3359 sounds about right, so maybe you should just take the projected BMR and forget about the activity multiplier.

Note: Three other BMR calculators put me in the 3050-3100 range.

I think I will stick to my 43/38/19 split at 3220 calories for now.

Of course, it's not written in stone that you MUST follow what it says, it's just good to get a reference place to start from.

It's amazing how much people actually burn in calories compared to what they think.

adwilk
01-23-2009, 06:00 PM
It's amazing how much people actually burn in calories compared to what they think.

Thank you.... cant hear that enough..

its also amazing how many calories people eat when they arent paying attention.

Djin
01-23-2009, 06:05 PM
Thank you.... cant hear that enough..

its also amazing how many calories people eat when they arent paying attention.

I write what I eat, and it's hard as well to hit 3,000 calories, and I'm trying to eat that many.

So only to imagine people eating 4,000+... WTF do you eat?

adwilk
01-23-2009, 06:06 PM
okay now i feel like i sorta hijacked this thread but i was so sure the owner of this thread was done...that we had come to a conclusion ;). sorry about that hitman! i hope you don't mind sharing and i won't do it again.

adwilk, thank you so much for those encouraging words. i just didn't want to end up paying for a goddang trainer or "team" that my gym is selling by panicing. i really feel good but i want to be as efficient as possible without being on an unrealistic diet and workout regimen (for me). i guess it'll just take a bit longer...i don't mind.

regarding the yoga, it's funny i never ever thought i'd do it privately let alone step in a studio but i wasn't at all flexible (bottom 1 percent for my age) and my wife mentioned said that this instructor was good so i loved the way i felt after one hour session so i just keep going.

Yeah, I started yoga about 6 months ago and its really turned my fitness around... i was very skeptical but stuck with it and its really helped every element of my workouts and athletic life. Its also helped everybody I try to help as well. Just keep going man.. somebody else above mentioned HIIT. Thats not a bad option for the 22 year old in my opinion but I'd like to see you on your feet for longer sessions till you start to see some larger gains. Then you could probably switch to HIIT to change things up. If you wanted to try it, i wouldnt do it for more than once a week right now and keep up your other cardio work.

adwilk
01-23-2009, 06:07 PM
I write what I eat, and it's hard as well to hit 3,000 calories, and I'm trying to eat that many.

So only to imagine people eating 4,000+... WTF do you eat?

I was talking about that guy that eats junk all the time.. the average American that has no clue what he's eating...

Djin
01-23-2009, 06:10 PM
I was talking about that guy that eats junk all the time.. the average American that has no clue what he's eating...

Oh **** yeah. When I was in full speed to destruction (before I gave two ****s about my health), I could easily eat over 2,000+ calories in a sitting at Taco Bell, and then still want more.

Oh God is it easy to go ape **** when you're not careing about what you eat. I use to eat a BOX of cereal and half a gallon of milk in a single sitting. Jeez... *shakes head*

adwilk
01-23-2009, 06:17 PM
Oh **** yeah. When I was in full speed to destruction (before I gave two ****s about my health), I could easily eat over 2,000+ calories in a sitting at Taco Bell, and then still want more.

Oh God is it easy to go ape **** when you're not careing about what you eat. I use to eat a BOX of cereal and half a gallon of milk in a single sitting. Jeez... *shakes head*

I hear ya man.. Nachos Bell Grande, two chalupas, 3 soft taco supremes and XL dew... 2000+ Used to be the norm.. never killed an entire box though.. thats a bit excessive. Its nice to look back and see how far you've come sometimes...

humbaba621
11-03-2009, 02:01 PM
More Protein + less fat = win