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View Full Version : Is Keto really the best diet to lose fat?



s2farsi
11-02-2008, 01:30 AM
I intend on losing about 15-20 pounds of fat after the new year and was looking into a few different diets. In terms of training I was going to go to a boxing gym for about an hour, 4 days a week. I was also going to do supersets with opposing muscles in the gym (bicep + tricep, chest + back) to raise my heart rate.
So I still dont know how to burn the fat. Would keto help me achieve my goal without burning any of my hard earned muscle? Or is it just a fad that will fade away in the future?

djansen
11-02-2008, 07:39 AM
its a way to achive a caloric deficit. thats all you need to loose weight.

its pretty much your choice.

Also, at 167 are you sure you want to loose 15-20 lbs?

lth
11-02-2008, 07:48 AM
its a way to achive a caloric deficit. thats all you need to loose weight.

repped

stathis723
11-02-2008, 08:11 AM
I intend on losing about 15-20 pounds of fat after the new year and was looking into a few different diets. In terms of training I was going to go to a boxing gym for about an hour, 4 days a week. I was also going to do supersets with opposing muscles in the gym (bicep + tricep, chest + back) to raise my heart rate.
So I still dont know how to burn the fat. Would keto help me achieve my goal without burning any of my hard earned muscle? Or is it just a fad that will fade away in the future?

Eat less calories then you burn, Be carefull, dont overestimate your calories, i did Box training as well and i used to burn lot of calories in there, is a very good choice for cardio

And theres no best diet, whatever you like or whatever works for you, F.e i dont like little to no carbs diets, i cant leave my oats

X-Mark-X
11-02-2008, 09:03 AM
repped

Should have said negged. First of all, he spelled lose wrong, which is just annoying. Second of all, the OP asked about fat, not weight. I could stop eating and I will lose a ton of weight, not exactly the best way to go about it while trying to preserve hard earned muscle though.

SDC77
11-02-2008, 09:26 AM
Should have said negged. First of all, he spelled lose wrong, which is just annoying. Second of all, the OP asked about fat, not weight. I could stop eating and I will lose a ton of weight, not exactly the best way to go about it while trying to preserve hard earned muscle though.

I repped him too. You will never lose weight in a caloric surplus. Fact.

blacksmith77
11-02-2008, 09:32 AM
keto works purely because it has the potential to blunt hunger. However personally I dont see myself getting ripped on cheese and bacon :)

MarkVI
11-02-2008, 09:33 AM
Should have said negged. First of all, he spelled lose wrong, which is just annoying. Second of all, the OP asked about fat, not weight. I could stop eating and I will lose a ton of weight, not exactly the best way to go about it while trying to preserve hard earned muscle though.

I hope you're being facetious - you could replace fat for weight in his original sentence and it would still hold true, Ketosis is not a magical state for fat burning.


keto works purely because it has the potential to blunt hunger. However personally I dont see myself getting ripped on cheese and bacon :)

Don't knock it till ya try it! You can for sure.

SixPax
11-02-2008, 09:33 AM
I reccomend the cut diet dude. Only diet I've ever done, but it works very well.

blacksmith77
11-02-2008, 09:35 AM
Don't knock it till ya try it! You can for sure.

not knockin it! but I just think it works very well for certain individuals , not me

MarkVI
11-02-2008, 09:39 AM
not knockin it! but I just think it works very well for certain individuals , not me

True true -- I work well on low carbs (but ketosis, meh not needed to be in it) so a low carb diet lifestyle is fitting, but think of someone like LTH....He'd implode on low carbs! Dude eats friggin 500grams of carbs :D, I know I feel awful eating so high carb.

I can't remember -- are you still thinking of trying Keto?

blacksmith77
11-02-2008, 09:41 AM
True true -- I work well on low carbs (but ketosis, meh not needed to be in it) so a low carb diet lifestyle is fitting, but think of someone like LTH....He'd implode on low carbs! Dude eats friggin 500grams of carbs :D, I know I feel awful eating so high carb.

I can't remember -- are you still thinking of trying Keto?

I tried the CHA for 7 days, then moved to keto for 3... I felt like crap on CHA. Then I started with keto and ended up eating 4000 cals cus it tasted good but felt really greasy and I just realised that I gotta stick to whats good for me and learn some self control with carbs!

MarkVI
11-02-2008, 09:44 AM
I tried the CHA for 7 days, then moved to keto for 3... I felt like crap on CHA. Then I started with keto and ended up eating 4000 cals cus it tasted good but felt really greasy and I just realised that I gotta stick to whats good for me and learn some self control with carbs!

Right on! I know how that goes....I don't usually eat much of the "bad" lowcarb foods lol...I haven't bacon in a long time, I don't eat breakfast sausage...I get free cheese but it's like gourmet goat cheeses and it's so rich you can only have a bit at a time....

What kind of greasy foods were you eating? And CHA FTL.

blacksmith77
11-02-2008, 10:08 AM
Right on! I know how that goes....I don't usually eat much of the "bad" lowcarb foods lol...I haven't bacon in a long time, I don't eat breakfast sausage...I get free cheese but it's like gourmet goat cheeses and it's so rich you can only have a bit at a time....

What kind of greasy foods were you eating? And CHA FTL.

MM goat cheese....

I wasnt eating too bad, 98% pork sausages for brekky, pork chops, parmesan, peanut butter, chicken drumsticks , avocadoes etc... but seriously I find this stuff way more tasty than carbs!

I tell ya keto would be heaven in france with all the fromagerie's.

Its amazing how CHA is very different to the Cut Diet (which works) in terms of its effects.

lth
11-02-2008, 10:09 AM
Should have said negged. First of all, he spelled lose wrong, which is just annoying. Second of all, the OP asked about fat, not weight. I could stop eating and I will lose a ton of weight, not exactly the best way to go about it while trying to preserve hard earned muscle though.

Lol at you for being ignorant and thinking you can burn body fat in a caloric surplus; again....the laws of thermodynamics IS common sense, macro manipulation will only determine the rate of the fat loss, but over a certain period of time...no matter what the macro manipulation is, results will end up being damn near the same.

Negged :)

lol
jk

Mr.Next in Line
11-02-2008, 10:10 AM
ketosis is a fad in my opinion/ any diet that extremely lowers one macronutrient and highly increases another is a fad...you better off doing that diet for 3 days and bump up the cals and carbs for 1 but no more than 3 days.Cycle that around for minimum of 12-16 weeks and then follow a baseline nutrition plan...Because you will gain so much fat and it will be harder to put off if you follow that straight low carb crap for weeks



I intend on losing about 15-20 pounds of fat after the new year and was looking into a few different diets. In terms of training I was going to go to a boxing gym for about an hour, 4 days a week. I was also going to do supersets with opposing muscles in the gym (bicep + tricep, chest + back) to raise my heart rate.
So I still dont know how to burn the fat. Would keto help me achieve my goal without burning any of my hard earned muscle? Or is it just a fad that will fade away in the future?

lth
11-02-2008, 10:14 AM
True true -- I work well on low carbs (but ketosis, meh not needed to be in it) so a low carb diet lifestyle is fitting, but think of someone like LTH....He'd implode on low carbs! Dude eats friggin 500grams of carbs :D, I know I feel awful eating so high carb.

I can't remember -- are you still thinking of trying Keto?

Exactly, i've never knocked keto or any other low carb diet....to each his own because everyone is different so your right on, you maintained what 5% or something on keto and didn't lose much muscle...I waste away to **** on low carbs and rarely have to drop them below 200g to get really lean; thats why this stuff is so fascinating.

brb; gettin' swole on pretzels and raisin bran

94Sip
11-02-2008, 10:24 AM
I think some are confusing terms on here. keto is a state your bodies go into where it turns to fat as a fuel source, due to the lack of carbs. Being in a keto state was the only way I was ever able to lose the spare tire/love handles. But based on measurements I gained muscle and definition.

So you have to differentiate keto by fat and weight loss. But the key is you have to do it right, and by that I mean the right supplements, the right quantity and types of fats, and then the whole carb up period has to be precise, etc The best results I ever had was using Amp v2 while in keto. That was truly awesome.

blacksmith77
11-02-2008, 10:34 AM
I think some are confusing terms on here. keto is a state your bodies go into where it turns to fat as a fuel source, due to the lack of carbs.

Actually if were going to be specific
Keto is derived from Ketones, which by definition is
Any of a class of organic compounds having the general formula RCOR', where R and R' are hydrocarbon radicals that are both attached to the carbon atom of the carbonyl (CO) group. Acetone is a ketone.

Ketosis:
Ketosis (pronounced /kiːˈtoʊsɪs/) is a state in metabolism occurring when the liver excessively converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies which can be used by the body for energy. Adipose tissue consists of highly specialized cells which store energy in the form of a triglyceride and release it upon hydrolysis in a process known as lipolysis, yielding three fatty acids and one glycerol molecule. These ketone bodies are a by-product of the lipid metabolic pathway after the fat is converted to energy.

Therefore going into Ketosis does not necessarily mean you will be burning more fat than you would if you were not in Ketosis

djansen
11-02-2008, 10:44 AM
Should have said negged. First of all, he spelled lose wrong, which is just annoying. Second of all, the OP asked about fat, not weight. I could stop eating and I will lose a ton of weight, not exactly the best way to go about it while trying to preserve hard earned muscle though.

sorry about my spelling while eating breakfast. lose, are you happy?

and I assumed that the OP had common sense and did not think in extremes which seems to be quite popular. of course you could loose weight by not eating but did he ever say in his post that he would stop eating? he was asking about a keto diet which leads me to belive that he knows not to just stop eating to loose weight. I guess I should be more specific and say that a caloric deficit is what causes weight loss. You dont need to drastically change your macros to loose FAT. You could loose FAT on a 40,30,30 and also on a keto diet.

but really, go ahead and neg me.

mygame11
11-02-2008, 10:52 AM
ketosis is a fad in my opinion/ any diet that extremely lowers one macronutrient and highly increases another is a fad...you better off doing that diet for 3 days and bump up the cals and carbs for 1 but no more than 3 days.Cycle that around for minimum of 12-16 weeks and then follow a baseline nutrition plan...Because you will gain so much fat and it will be harder to put off if you follow that straight low carb crap for weeks
I will have to respectively disagree...there is nothing "fad" about the human body and how it works, or science..... It is what it is.....it does what it does. It is a chemical change in the body, it is hardly a fad....
It has also been going strong since the early 1900's.....I do not consider that a "fad"

lth
11-02-2008, 10:55 AM
I will have to respectively disagree...there is nothing "fad" about the human body and how it works, or science..... It is what it is.....it does what it does. It is a chemical change in the body, it is hardly a fad....
It has also been going strong since the early 1900's.....I do not consider that a "fad"

its not a fad, correct...but it does not work better in the long term than a traditional carb based diet if one is in a caloric deficit; there are numerous studies stating this.

djansen
11-02-2008, 11:00 AM
I will have to respectively disagree...there is nothing "fad" about the human body and how it works, or science..... It is what it is.....it does what it does. It is a chemical change in the body, it is hardly a fad....
It has also been going strong since the early 1900's.....I do not consider that a "fad"

You really need to pick up Girth Control, he has a chapter all about high protien low carb diets.

maybe alan can chime in and post something from it.

mygame11
11-02-2008, 11:12 AM
You really need to pick up Girth Control, he has a chapter all about high protien low carb diets.

maybe alan can chime in and post something from it.

What exactly is the book about? Can you explain yourself please? :D

djansen
11-02-2008, 11:14 AM
What exactly is the book about? Can you explain yourself please? :D

Its Alans book on muscle gain and weight loss.

http://user210805.websitewizard.com/files/unprotected/Microsoft-Word---girth-control-contents.pdf

http://alanaragon.com/my-book.html

X-Mark-X
11-02-2008, 11:20 AM
Lol at you for being ignorant and thinking you can burn body fat in a caloric surplus; again....the laws of thermodynamics IS common sense, macro manipulation will only determine the rate of the fat loss, but over a certain period of time...no matter what the macro manipulation is, results will end up being damn near the same.

Negged :)

lol
jk

lmao, when the hell did I say you can lose fat on a caloric surplus? Many keto advocates will argue that you will lose more fat/lb of weight lost on a keto diet than you will on a balanced reduced calorie diet.

Say eat 2000 calories on a 45/30/25 diet and lose 10lbs. How much of the 10lbs was fat?

Now say I eat 2000 calories on a keto diet and lose 10lbs. How much of the 10lbs was fat?

Maybe the OP was asking if keto was more efficient at fat burning while on a caloric deficit? I was just trying to point out that weight and fat are NOT the same thing, so stop mentioning thermodynamics. I guarantee you if I lose 10lbs by losing 1lb/week eating a healthy diet vs. losing 10lbs in a week by starving myself the composition of the weight I lost will be much different.

mygame11
11-02-2008, 11:23 AM
Its Alans book on muscle gain and weight loss.

http://user210805.websitewizard.com/files/unprotected/Microsoft-Word---girth-control-contents.pdf

http://alanaragon.com/my-book.html
Thanks for the links!

X-Mark-X
11-02-2008, 11:24 AM
sorry about my spelling while eating breakfast. lose, are you happy?

and I assumed that the OP had common sense and did not think in extremes which seems to be quite popular. of course you could loose weight by not eating but did he ever say in his post that he would stop eating? he was asking about a keto diet which leads me to belive that he knows not to just stop eating to loose weight. I guess I should be more specific and say that a caloric deficit is what causes weight loss. You dont need to drastically change your macros to loose FAT. You could loose FAT on a 40,30,30 and also on a keto diet.

but really, go ahead and neg me.

I would be happy if you didn't just spell lose wrong three more times in that paragraph. I never said the OP planned to stop eating, I was merely pointing out that it is possible for the composition of your total weight loss to be different depending how you lose the weight. As I said in my previous post, there are those who believe that keto will burn more fat/lb of weight lost than other diets.

I may have been incorrect, but I was assuming the OP was asking if he lost 10lbs on a 40/30/30 and lost 10lbs on a keto diet, would he be losing more fat on the keto diet? He did specifically mention that he was interested in preserving his muscle and losing fat. Weight =/ fat.

BTW I was just kidding about the neg part lol.

lth
11-02-2008, 11:26 AM
Say eat 2000 calories on a 45/30/25 diet and lose 10lbs. How much of the 10lbs was fat?

Now say I eat 2000 calories on a keto diet and lose 10lbs. How much of the 10lbs was fat?

Ok, slight miscommunication then...my bad. I agree with this, thats what markIV was referring too as was I, macro manipulation determines that quality of the weight lost IMO, weight loss will happend period no matter what in a caloric deficit. Like I said, i would lose weight, but also a ****load of muscle on keto, others do very well on it. Last year for my cut I actually did use a 35/45/20 type of ratio during my cut...so yeah, it is highly individual.

X-Mark-X
11-02-2008, 11:31 AM
I hope you're being facetious - you could replace fat for weight in his original sentence and it would still hold true, Ketosis is not a magical state for fat burning.

No, I was being quite serious. He is correct in saying eat less to lose fat, I will agree there. However, if I eat less and my diet sucks and I don't exercise, I am going to lose a lot of muscle with that fat. If losing WEIGHT was all that mattered then everyone who was trying to cut would just stop eating and watch those pounds fly off. The trick is they want to keep their muscle too. They don't want to lose weight, in fact, most people want to gain weight, they want to lose fat. Weight /= fat.

X-Mark-X
11-02-2008, 11:34 AM
Ok, slight miscommunication then...my bad. I agree with this, thats what markIV was referring too as was I, macro manipulation determines that quality of the weight lost IMO, weight loss will happend period no matter what in a caloric deficit. Like I said, i would lose weight, but also a ****load of muscle on keto, others do very well on it. Last year for my cut I actually did use a 35/45/20 type of ratio during my cut...so yeah, it is highly individual.

Fair enough, I haven't tried keto and I don't really care to because I've had great success both bulking and cutting with a 45/30/25 ish split. I don't really think keto is the magical solution to fat loss that a lot of people make it out to be. I was only clarifying the difference between weight and fat because I have seen people doing a keto diet claiming that they can lose fat while gaining weight on the keto diet.

adoniscomplex
11-02-2008, 11:36 AM
i doubt there is much of a difference in fat lost in keto or zone given the same calories but i think most people find keto to be easy and as long as you dont eat bacon like crazy it seems to be easy to eat in a normal range of calories and lose weight
for me its the only way i can mange to diet , if i give my self the option to eat whatever but mange my cals i mess it up
but on a keto or carb cycle , i can eat whatever besides carbs and amost always lose 2 inches off my waist in the first month then 1 inch each month after
as you can see i have done this a few times

lth
11-02-2008, 11:38 AM
Fair enough, I haven't tried keto and I don't really care to because I've had great success both bulking and cutting with a 45/30/25 ish split. I don't really think keto is the magical solution to fat loss that a lot of people make it out to be. I was only clarifying the difference between weight and fat because I have seen people doing a keto diet claiming that they can lose fat while gaining weight on the keto diet.

No, its not magical by any shot in hell....but to those who are highly insulin resistant it does help. I tried it once and felt like I got hit by a train, then binged for a whole day....im eating 600g carbs a day and staying lean. Again though nothing works better than something else in a general sense. I've heard those claims too and im sorry but I don't believe it.

deserusan
11-02-2008, 11:57 AM
The best diet is the one that is based on your somatotype. As someone mentioned, all diets basically incorporate caloric deficit. However, keto is not for everyone just like carb cycling, etc.

lth
11-02-2008, 11:59 AM
The best diet is the one that is based on your somatotype. As someone mentioned, all diets basically incorporate caloric deficit. However, keto is not for everyone just like carb cycling, etc.

Yeah, thats what I was referring to....endo's who are very insulin resistant will do well on keto, meso and ectos would probably end up losing muscle.

djansen
11-02-2008, 04:47 PM
I would be happy if you didn't just spell lose wrong three more times in that paragraph. I never said the OP planned to stop eating, I was merely pointing out that it is possible for the composition of your total weight loss to be different depending how you lose the weight. As I said in my previous post, there are those who believe that keto will burn more fat/lb of weight lost than other diets.

I may have been incorrect, but I was assuming the OP was asking if he lost 10lbs on a 40/30/30 and lost 10lbs on a keto diet, would he be losing more fat on the keto diet? He did specifically mention that he was interested in preserving his muscle and losing fat. Weight =/ fat.

BTW I was just kidding about the neg part lol.

I dont know why I keep spellilng loose lol.

FishTank
11-02-2008, 07:05 PM
Is Keto the best diet to lose fat? No. Because there is no best diet, to lose fat; everyone is different. Some people can eat a ton of carbs and do a ton of cardio and lose the same amount of fat if not more. I would say you need to experiment for yourself. My advice is to just eat smart and exercise. The fat will come off with enough cardio. Run hills, do sprints, ride a bike, swim or whatever. If you can't push yourself to run hills or run or whatever, then you might want to try a low carb diet. I know I got my best results with a all around healthy diet, which consisted of getting good protein sources, good carbs, good fats, drinking plenty of water, getting plenty of sleep, and just enjoying the experience of becoming a better me. I use to be 225lbs and now I'm 173 with less than 20% body fat. I use to wear size 40 waist now I can wear size 34 with a lot of wiggle room.

It's all about pushing yourself and enjoying the experience. Now I love going out to a track and running or running some hills and feeling great about myself. There isn't one diet to rule them all, but there is will power which can change your life, body, and mind.

s2farsi
11-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Also, at 167 are you sure you want to loose 15-20 lbs?

By bodyfat is upwards of 15% so by my calculations, it would be in my best interest to lose the fat to have better muscle definition.

djansen
11-02-2008, 07:39 PM
By bodyfat is upwards of 15% so by my calculations, it would be in my best interest to lose the fat to have better muscle definition.

I am about in your situation right now. I am 6 ft and about 170-175 with the about the same bf. If I lost that much weight I would look skinny and hollow.

I am slowly gaining weight and when I feel i have some decent muscle mass I will cut slowly.

s2farsi
11-02-2008, 11:46 PM
I am about in your situation right now. I am 6 ft and about 170-175 with the about the same bf. If I lost that much weight I would look skinny and hollow.

I am slowly gaining weight and when I feel i have some decent muscle mass I will cut slowly.

But you are 4" taller than me dude.