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Robxs
10-25-2008, 06:57 PM
We all know that alcohol is best avoided by bb'ers but just how bad is it really? I'm referring specifically to moderate daily consumption. How much harm to fitness and bb goals can very moderate levels of alcohol do, say 1 or 2 small glasses of whiskey a day or a glass of wine?

BMWERKEN
10-25-2008, 10:11 PM
If you are going to have a drink a day, I suggest sticking with red wine given it's health properties. Whiskey is just empty calories so at least with wine, you get a buzz and the health benefits.

I think the main thing to look out for is make sure the drink is within your daily caloric intake. So long as you are within your goals (either caloric balance, deficit or surplus), you should be fine.

Robxs
10-26-2008, 04:11 PM
If you are going to have a drink a day, I suggest sticking with red wine given it's health properties. Whiskey is just empty calories so at least with wine, you get a buzz and the health benefits.

I think the main thing to look out for is make sure the drink is within your daily caloric intake. So long as you are within your goals (either caloric balance, deficit or surplus), you should be fine.

OK, but what about its effects on muscle synthesis? Will, say, a glass of wine a day have any significant impact on it?

mada071
10-26-2008, 05:08 PM
red wine is somewhat proven (i didnt say proven because i dont know) to be good for your blood flow, sleep, heart, and other vairous things.

whiskey on the other hand... havent really heard anything about it,

Dorian__Gray
10-26-2008, 06:00 PM
One or two glass of alcohol EVERY day can be considered alcoholism by many people. On the other hand, some whiskey on Fridays isn't going to hurt anything in moderation.

I love Crown and diet coke and drink a glass or two after work on Fridays no problem. It's life, LIVE IT!

michael07
10-26-2008, 06:15 PM
having a glass or two of alcohol every day is far from being an alcoholic. in fact its pretty healthy

namtrag
10-26-2008, 06:17 PM
having a glass or two of alcohol every day is far from being an alcoholic. in fact its pretty healthy

has it been working for you?

j/k-I guess one or two a day would be ok.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 06:23 PM
We all know that alcohol is best avoided by bb'ers but just how bad is it really?

My bad-o-meter registers a 6.88

Of course, you will get different numbers depending on the whiskey sample.





having a glass or two of alcohol every day is far from being an alcoholic. in fact its pretty healthy


yea, most people think that when one drinks every day, they are an alcoholic.

If you think it is pretty healthy, try drinking 20 glasses a day. Maybe you will end up the pinnacle of health

Dorian__Gray
10-26-2008, 06:23 PM
Having to do drink alcohol every day is called addiction whether or not it is healthy for you.

namtrag
10-26-2008, 06:27 PM
Having to do drink alcohol every day is called addiction whether or not it is healthy for you.

I guess everyone in France is an alcoholic then.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 06:31 PM
if everyone in France is doing it, it must be a good idea, huh?

P.S. I doubt everyone in France drinks alcohol every day

backherms
10-26-2008, 06:31 PM
Having to do drink alcohol every day is called addiction whether or not it is healthy for you.

Whats wrong with a couple drinks a day? Its not like he is trying to get hammered every day, he said just a couple.

blacksmith77
10-26-2008, 06:32 PM
One or two glass of alcohol EVERY day can be considered alcoholism by many people.

Who? Nuns?

michael07
10-26-2008, 06:34 PM
Whats wrong with a couple drinks a day? Its not like he is trying to get hammered every day, he said just a couple.

Exactly. if he was gettin ****faced everyday then it wouldnt be good. but a drink or two a day is perfectly fine

gsolo
10-26-2008, 06:35 PM
Exactly. if he was gettin ****faced everyday then it wouldnt be good. but a drink or two a day is perfectly fine


So how many drinks a day is not perfectly fine and why would it become not perfectly fine at that amount?

Dorian__Gray
10-26-2008, 06:37 PM
If you judge your actions by what people do in France, then you need a better role model.

Also, to say that everyone in France drinks every night is neither likely nor realistic.

Make no mistake I have to qualm with drinking.

Robxs
10-26-2008, 07:27 PM
Well i'm not an alkie... but then again denial is key to being one... :P

Seriously, though, what i'm interested to know are the effects of very moderate daily drinking (e.g. a glass of wine a day or a couple of small whiskeys) on muscle synthesis. I know about the negative effects of heavy, binge drinking on the muscles, but i haven't read or heard anything about lower levels of consumption.

michael07
10-26-2008, 07:32 PM
So how many drinks a day is not perfectly fine and why would it become not perfectly fine at that amount?

well when u start gettin up to 6-7 per day then its not so good. and as for the reasons when u have one or two its not goin to effect protein synthesis as much as downing 6 or 7 a day. and thats the pretty much the only reason u need. o and btw one or two is good for the heart...6 or 7...not so much

Anticrombie315
10-26-2008, 07:43 PM
Having to do drink alcohol every day is called addiction whether or not it is healthy for you.

You obviously have no idea what alcoholism is. You should just stop talking.

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 07:46 PM
If you judge your actions by what people do in France, then you need a better role model.

Also, to say that everyone in France drinks every night is neither likely nor realistic.

Make no mistake I have to qualm with drinking.

nothing wrong with France. And yea, as a matter of fact it is kind of the societal norm for the average adult male to have 1-2 drinks every night is a lot of places.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 07:48 PM
well when u start gettin up to 6-7 per day then its not so good. and as for the reasons when u have one or two its not goin to effect protein synthesis as much as downing 6 or 7 a day. and thats the pretty much the only reason u need. o and btw one or two is good for the heart...6 or 7...not so much


So

5 glasses of whiskey a day is the perfect amount?


or could it be like 5.8 glasses?

Gronnie
10-26-2008, 07:49 PM
My bad-o-meter registers a 6.88

Of course, you will get different numbers depending on the whiskey sample.







yea, most people think that when one drinks every day, they are an alcoholic.

If you think it is pretty healthy, try drinking 20 glasses a day. Maybe you will end up the pinnacle of health


if everyone in France is doing it, it must be a good idea, huh?

P.S. I doubt everyone in France drinks alcohol every day


So how many drinks a day is not perfectly fine and why would it become not perfectly fine at that amount?

There are many studies showing daily, moderate intake of alcohol actually provides health benefits. These studies started with red wine, but some newer ones are starting to show any sort of moderate alcohol consumption can provide benefit. Perhaps a little reading is in order.

***After 1 or maybe two drinks/day the negatives start to quickly overpower the positive benefits, so moderation is the key work in moderate daily consumption****

gsolo
10-26-2008, 07:50 PM
****

make it 5.99 glasses a day. If you are going to do it, might as well do it right!

gsolo
10-26-2008, 07:52 PM
There are many studies showing daily, moderate intake of alcohol actually provides health benefits.


Do any of those studies weigh the negative effects vs what positives they measured?

Gronnie
10-26-2008, 08:00 PM
Do any of those studies weigh the negative effects vs what positives they measured?

What negatives from one drink are you referring to? I guess you could find and read a few of them, Google is your friend.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:08 PM
Alcohol consumption and plasma homocysteine.
Sakuta H, Suzuki T.

Department of Internal Medicine, Self-Defense Forces Central Hospital, 1-2-24 Ikejiri, Tokyo 154-8532, Japan. hsakuta@msa.biglobe.ne.jp

A few reports show that consumption of spirits and of wine correlate with elevated plasma total homocysteine (tHcy), which is associated with the risk of cardiovascular disease. We analyzed the relation between tHcy and current daily ethanol consumption cross-sectionally in middle-aged Japanese men (n = 974, age 51-59 years). Plasma tHcy was positively associated with consumption of whiskey but not with consumption of shochu (Japanese spirits), sake, beer, or wine. Odds ratios of an increase in daily intake of 30 ml ethanol (approximately 1 standard deviation) for hyperhomocysteinemia (>14.0 micromol/l) were 2.58 (95% confidence interval, 1.29-5.14) for whiskey, 1.08 (0.78-1.50) for shochu, 0.99 (0.59-1.66) for sake, 0.98 (0.58-1.63) for beer, and 1.70 (0.31-9.50) for wine in a multivariate logistic regression analysis adjusted for the daily number of cigarettes smoked, physical activity, vegetable consumption, and serum creatinine levels. After inclusion of plasma folate and vitamin B12 in the multivariate analysis model, the association between whiskey ethanol consumption and hyperhomocysteinemia remained significant with odds ratio of 2.79 (1.36-5.72). These results suggest that whiskey consumption correlates with hyperhomocysteinemia independently of plasma folate or vitamin B12 or lifestyle factors in the population studied.



Alcohol. 2005 Oct;37(2):73-7.Click here to read

bp16
10-26-2008, 08:13 PM
****

make it 5.99 glasses a day. If you are going to do it, might as well do it right!

Rollseyes...

5 glasses a day suppresses brain functions noticeably, however 1 does not. Clearly there is a difference between heavy and light drinking daily. Moderation, something you are ignoring, trying to be cute, is the key.

And yes, wine is well known for its health benefits. If you are going to be having drinks daily, wine would be the best.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:21 PM
michael07 posted that when you start getting to 6-7 per day its not so good

So you roll eyes at me for suggesting 5.99 yet his comment is OK?

and if 5 glasses suppresses brain functioning noticeably, does 1 glass suppress it at all?

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 08:23 PM
michael07 posted that when you start getting to 6-7 per day its not so good

So you roll eyes at me for suggesting 5.99 yet his comment is OK?

and if 5 glasses suppresses brain functioning noticeably, does 1 glass suppress it at all?

well since the title said 'couple drink' you could just admit you're being an argumentative douche making up an extreme example cause you have nothing to really stand on. and you know it.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:28 PM
Did you bother to read the abstact I posted?

If you want to drink all day long, I don't care. Go ahead, it won't have any positive or negatives effects on me

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 08:31 PM
If you want to drink all day long, I don't care. Go ahead, it won't have any positive or negatives effects on me

Do you bother to talk about the same thing as anyone else? Nobody is talking about drinking all day long.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:34 PM
yea

I am. If you want to drink all day, I'm saying I don't care.

If you want to see an abstract on the effects of a small amount of whiskey look at my previous posts.

michael07
10-26-2008, 08:36 PM
Did you bother to read the abstact I posted?

If you want to drink all day long, I don't care. Go ahead, it won't have any positive or negatives effects on me

were u loved as a child? i mean no offense but its seems to me based off ur posts that ur a bit of a prick... and to answer ur question, no 5.99 drinks fper day is not ok. like i said one or two is, anymore than that and its not good for u. simple as that

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:39 PM
were u loved as a child? i mean no offense but its seems to me based off ur posts that ur a bit of a prick... and to answer ur question, no 5.99 drinks fper day is not ok. like i said one or two is, anymore than that and its not good for u. simple as that


Maybe someone else is logged into you account because I also see:



well when u start gettin up to 6-7 per day then its not so good.

michael07
10-26-2008, 08:42 PM
Maybe someone else is logged into you account because I also see:

what the hell does that have to do with anything? all i said was 6 or 7 drinks everyday isnt good for u. dude u lost this argument..just give up

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:42 PM
and yea, I can be a bit of a prick

I try to stick to the subject though and be as objective as I can. I'd rather look for and post supporting evidence rather than call people pricks or douche

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 08:44 PM
no, you want to say alcohol is bad. period. you lack strong enough support for that, so instead you start making insinuations to 6 drinks a day or 'getting drunk all day long.'

on topic my ass.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:45 PM
and maybe I'm totally wrong, I'm OK with that.

but I haven't seen one person post anything that supports the health benefits of drinking. Apart from "everyone knows its good for you" or "the health benefits are well known". So I would think that at least one of you guys could reason why drinking a glass or two of whiskey a day is good for you.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:46 PM
no, you want to say alcohol is bad. period. you lack strong enough support for that, so i ...


You're right

I only posted one abstract. That isn't strong enough support (on its own) to be convincing

Does that mean you should assume that it is good?

warmfuzzies
10-26-2008, 08:47 PM
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_1

Read this

michael07
10-26-2008, 08:51 PM
well i think when a doctor, who by the way is a cardiologist, has studied things like this tells my grandfather that a little alcohol a day is good for his heart. i think thats evidence enough.

FunkDaddy
10-26-2008, 08:51 PM
If you need a couple shots of whiskey to relax after work, go ahead. But I'd look into alternate methods of relaxation and de-stressing because that is a very easy way to become dependant on booze (which IS alcoholism)

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 08:51 PM
http://www.ynhh.org/online/nutrition/advisor/red_wine.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1719675.stm

you can google too.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 08:56 PM
http://www.ynhh.org/online/nutrition/advisor/red_wine.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1719675.stm

you can google too.


Hey thats good

Are you aware that those compounds are present in grapes also? You don't need to consume alcohol to get them.

michael07
10-26-2008, 08:56 PM
If you need a couple shots of whiskey to relax after work, go ahead. But I'd look into alternate methods of relaxation and de-stressing because that is a very easy way to become dependant on booze (which IS alcoholism)

thats only part of alcoholism. the other part is the having no control over how much one drinks. such as u start drinking but cant stop until u are forced to ie. pass out or run out of alcohol

easye7
10-26-2008, 09:00 PM
side effects of daily whiskey consumption: hair on balls

gsolo
10-26-2008, 09:00 PM
well i think when a doctor, who by the way is a cardiologist, has studied things like this tells my grandfather that a little alcohol a day is good for his heart. i think thats evidence enough.

So if you found out that one cardiologist disagreed with him, how would you feel? How about two cardiologists?



http://www.delhiwineclub.com/wine_health/speculate_Indian_doctors.asp


Red wine good for nothing, speculate Indian doctors

In a shocking scenario bordering on bizarre, smelling of sensationalism and impregnated with ignorant and irresponsible rhetoric, scores of leading doctors participating in a national health summit organised by ASOCHAM in Delhi last Tuesday concurred that wine, beer or any alcohol could not be good for health.

Dismissing the widely held theory that red wine is good for health, leading Indian doctors Tuesday said that no one in the world has proved the positive side of either the red wine or any category of alcohol, reports IANS.

'I have gone through nearly 1.6 crores (16 million) articles on health and alcohol but none has proved that alcohol is good for health especially for heart,' said H. K. Chopra, chief cardiologist at Moolchand Medicity.

'It's simply a perception among people that taking red wine will do wonder for heart. Why don't they take grape juice instead?' Chopra, who is also the chairman of the World Heart Academy, said.

M.C. Mishra head of surgery at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS) here said: 'People drink alcohol, smoke five packets of cigarettes but never bother to take fruits. In the name of anti-oxidants, these wine companies promote wine and people blindly believe it.'

India needs more of health clubs and wellness centres rather than hospitals, said B.K. Rao chairman of Sir Ganga Ram Hospital .

'Most of our people are not health conscious. They take all junk foods, aerated drinks, alcohol and other unnecessary things and complain about the increasing disease burden.

'No one speaks about the benefits of exercise but are loud about wine. It's a worrying trend. We need good food and regular exercise to keep out heart healthy not red wine,' Rao told IANS on the sidelines of the summit.

S. C. Manchanda, a former head of cardiology at AIIMS expressed similar opinion and urged people to drink water instead of wine. 'Drink water, it will keep your body and mind clean.'

Shikha Sharma, a nutritionist also snubbed the idea of alcohol as a health enhancer. 'When people already have so much of burden, they cannot afford more with wine or any other form of alcohol. What we need is a balanced diet.'

Chopra also said that the growing nightclubs and pubs are just promoting alcohol among youngsters and it is worsening the situation. 'Sedentary lifestyle coupled with stress and alcohol are making the chronic disease scenario worst in India .'

Cardiologists of some of the known hospitals such as Moolchand Medicity, AIIMS, Max Heart & Vascular Institute and Ganga Ram Hospital took part in the debate. According to the cardiologists, wine intake adds toxic content to the human body. It damages and decays heart.

Therefore, cardiologists have suggested immediate ban on mushrooming pubs and bars in cities, especially in Delhi . Max Heart & Vascular Institute chairman Ashok Seth said ignorance among the people must be unfolded to discourage intake of alcohol and wine. The emergency health facilities in India are inadequate and hospitals are ill-equipped to look after patients.

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com
http://in.news.yahoo.com/070417/43/6eo3u.html

Reacting to the 'ridiculous report', Dr. Tedd Goldfinger, a cardiologist from Arizona, USA, who is also the convenor of the International Wine and Heart Summit held biennially in Napa said he would reply to the report in a few days with facts and figures. So would Dr. Klatsky of San Francisco who is considered a pioneer in conducting heart and wine studies for a period of 20 years, the results of which were published tin1998. Dr. Curt Ellison of Boston and many other doctors who have been involved with serious studies of years and who do not comment on the social aspects have promised to send their rebuttal soon along with facts and figures.

In the meantime, our readers' views are solicited. Any facts presented to ASSOCHAM at this conference will also be sought along with possible interviews with the participating senior doctors who were present. I have been attending the international health and wine conferences in the USA and interacting with several cardiologists and educationists overseas. Their opinion based on the studies carried out so far is unanimous: wine or any alcohol when taken regularly in moderate quantity; 2 glasses a day, is positively good for the heart and many other health related issues without any harm to liver. Wine has anti-oxidants which have shown several additional benefits in different studies.

These studies are done by non-wine related funding, usually by the governments or some other foundation grants.

More than two glasses are however, harmful for liver, heart, BP and many other organs, and certainly not advised if one is driving afterwards. A glass of wine a day is now recommended in the Health food plan issued by the government in the US as also in Denmark and several other countries. In fact China has reduced duties on wine so people can shift from higher alcohol drinks to wine, considered good for health. Details will be published in forthcoming issues of delWine. Watch this space - editor

DelWine recommends moderate amount of wine consumption as a healthy lifestyle product regularly, preferably with meals. But if one does not drink alcohol for social, religion or moral reasons, one is advised not to start drinking.

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:00 PM
Hey thats good

Are you aware that those compounds are present in grapes also? You don't need to consume alcohol to get them.

i am! but wine is a lot more fun. Also that t-nation article is a pretty good read.

FunkDaddy
10-26-2008, 09:02 PM
thats only part of alcoholism. the other part is the having no control over how much one drinks. such as u start drinking but cant stop until u are forced to ie. pass out or run out of alcohol

Uhm...no, it isn't. If you are dependant on alcohol, you are an alcoholic. You don't have to be drinking until you run out

gsolo
10-26-2008, 09:06 PM
As for Dr. Goldfinger, being a convenor of the International Wine and Heart Summit, one would think that he would be able to recite at least some of that information from memory

Maybe he was waiting for his wine buzz to wear off...

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:09 PM
As for Dr. Goldfinger, being a convenor of the International Wine and Heart Summit, one would think that he would be able to recite at least some of that information from memory

Maybe he was waiting for his wine buzz to wear off...

ok, so strong possibility that i might cross a line on this one. but wtf. did you have alcoholic parents? wife? yourself? i mean, what's up with the one man crusade?

gsolo
10-26-2008, 09:11 PM
I'm not an alcoholic, nor my s/o nor my parents.

Now, is it possible that you are an alcoholic and are looking to justify your drinking?

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm not an alcoholic, nor my s/o nor my parents.

Now, is it possible that you are an alcoholic and are looking to justify your drinking?

fail

michael07
10-26-2008, 09:24 PM
Uhm...no, it isn't. If you are dependant on alcohol, you are an alcoholic. You don't have to be drinking until you run out

if you would please click on the link i have so graciously provided, you will see the elements of alcoholism.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/homework/a/blwhatis1.htm

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:26 PM
naaaaaaaa bro. 2 drinks a day = alcoholism. anyone who does has a problem. Yup. obviously

Tishalicious
10-26-2008, 09:31 PM
2 drinks a day = waste of huge calories without much in the way of nutrition...

And I agree with the idea that if you need the booze to unwind, you got bigger problems then drinking. Maybe a change of job/lifestyle will help.

(not preachin' - just sayin')

FunkDaddy
10-26-2008, 09:37 PM
if you would please click on the link i have so graciously provided, you will see the elements of alcoholism.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/homework/a/blwhatis1.htm

Failed by your own link...

"Alcoholism has little to do with what kind of alcohol one drinks, how long one has been drinking, or even exactly how much alcohol one consumes. But it has a great deal to do with a person's uncontrollable need for alcohol."

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:38 PM
Failed by your own link...

"Alcoholism has little to do with what kind of alcohol one drinks, how long one has been drinking, or even exactly how much alcohol one consumes. But it has a great deal to do with a person's uncontrollable need for alcohol."

who has an uncontrollable need for it?

michael07
10-26-2008, 09:42 PM
Failed by your own link...

"Alcoholism has little to do with what kind of alcohol one drinks, how long one has been drinking, or even exactly how much alcohol one consumes. But it has a great deal to do with a person's uncontrollable need for alcohol."

man if u would have read above that u would have seen where it says
Craving: A strong need, or compulsion, to drink.


Loss of control: The frequent inability to stop drinking once a person has begun.

Physical dependence: The occurrence of withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating, shakiness, and anxiety, when alcohol use is stopped after a period of heavy drinking. These symptoms are usually relieved by drinking alcohol or by taking another sedative drugs.

so...u fail

FunkDaddy
10-26-2008, 09:43 PM
who has an uncontrollable need for it?

Uhm...alcoholics...as per the link provided by the person with whom I'm arguing the indicators of alcoholism



so...u fail

U mad your own link proved you wrong? Those indicators prove me right, not you

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:46 PM
Uhm...alcoholics...as per the link provided by the person with whom I'm arguing the indicators of alcoholism

Sooooo people who display the trait described are the person described?

WOW - way to go. But seriously, how does 'a strong uncontrollable desire' prove that he fails? The op was just asking if 1-2 drinks after worked would have a huge effect on his bb.ing desires.

michael07
10-26-2008, 09:46 PM
dude im not even gonna argue anymore if u cant read. it clearly says the loss of control of drinking. and like i said there is more than just one element of alcoholism so u are partly right and i am partly right.

FunkDaddy
10-26-2008, 09:50 PM
Sooooo people who display the trait described are the person described?

WOW - way to go. But seriously, how does 'a strong uncontrollable desire' prove that he fails? The op was just asking if 1-2 drinks after worked would have a huge effect on his bb.ing desires.

WOW - way to go...stick to your own argument chief, I'm not talking to the OP or even about the OP. michael07 is arguing that alcoholism depends on a loss of control, I'm arguing it is simply the dependance/need for alcohol (which a loss of control would be part of). His link provided evidence to support my argument, not so much his.

Try and keep up :rolleyes:

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 09:52 PM
WOW - way to go...stick to your own argument chief, I'm not talking to the OP or even about the OP. michael07 is arguing that alcoholism depends on a loss of control, I'm arguing it is simply the dependance/need for alcohol (which a loss of control would be part of). His link provided evidence to support my argument, not so much his.

Try and keep up :rolleyes:

i guess i just assumed you were making a point. what is your point. specific to this thread.

Dr. Horse
10-26-2008, 10:10 PM
Wow. There's a WHOLE lot of WRONG in this thread!


If you are going to have a drink a day, I suggest sticking with red wine given it's health properties. Whiskey is just empty calories so at least with wine, you get a buzz and the health benefits.

Actually, it seems the primary health benefits of wine come from the ALCOHOL itself. Alcohol lowers blood pressure, increased HDL, inhibits blood clots, and more. Wine does all that and has antioxidant benefits as well.



but I haven't seen one person post anything that supports the health benefits of drinking. Apart from "everyone knows its good for you" or "the health benefits are well known". So I would think that at least one of you guys could reason why drinking a glass or two of whiskey a day is good for you.

I can't see why you wouldn't do a little of your own research before making so much noise. I'll baby you and give you some links to get you started:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18727003?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347649?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17922947?ordinalpos=14&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-wine/HB00089

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/alcohol/index.html

http://www.med.unc.edu/alcohol/education/benefits.html

gsolo
10-26-2008, 10:13 PM
The op was just asking if 1-2 drinks after worked would have a huge effect on his bb.ing desires.



That is not what he asked.


He asked:



We all know that alcohol is best avoided by bb'ers but just how bad is it really?


and



How much harm to fitness and bb goals can very moderate levels of alcohol do, say 1 or 2 small glasses of whiskey a day or a glass of wine?

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 10:16 PM
How much harm to fitness and bb goals can very moderate levels of alcohol do, say 1 or 2 small glasses of whiskey a day or a glass of wine?

how the **** is this question and my statement not the same?

The op was just asking if 1-2 drinks after worked would have a huge effect on his bb.ing desires.

easye7
10-26-2008, 10:17 PM
i did 20 sessions of AA (court ordered) and what i gathered was that alcoholism is when drinking (or not drinking) makes it difficult for you to function in your normal every day life...but then again theirs functional alcoholics, so maybe not.


but if you think about it, if your not drinking at all and are driving to meetings all over the county twice a day, isn't alcohol still in control of your life? wise words from south park. :)

Dr. Horse
10-26-2008, 10:21 PM
how the **** is this question and my statement not the same?

LOL it's almost verbatim.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 10:21 PM
how the **** is this question and my statement not the same?


because same means "no difference"

gsolo
10-26-2008, 10:23 PM
LOL it's almost verbatim.


yea

almost

Guessing I don't have to bother defining verbatim for you

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 10:24 PM
because same means "no difference"

you are stupid because you have no reading compression and make absurd arguments.

you are stupid because you make absurd arguments and have no reading comprehension. '


HAH! pwned you good, with two -different- insults.

man, am I clever or what?

Dr. Horse
10-26-2008, 10:24 PM
yea

almost

Guessing I don't have to bother defining verbatim for you

Why not defend your original argument instead of trying to change the subject, smart guy?

gsolo
10-26-2008, 10:25 PM
man, am I clever or what?


yes, you are clever

gsolo
10-26-2008, 10:37 PM
Chronic ethanol intake induces oxidative alterations in rat testis.
Grattagliano I, Vendemiale G, Errico F, Bolognino AE, Lillo F, Salerno MT, Altomare E.

Department of Internal and Occupational Medicine, University of Bari, Italy.

Although it is well known that chronic ethanol abuse produces sexual dysfunction and impaired spermatogenesis, the mechanisms of ethanol-induced testicular alterations are not fully explained. Therefore, the aim of this study was to investigate the mechanisms of testicular oxidative damage in rats given drinking water containing 3% ethanol for 8 weeks. Control rats were pair-fed with saccharose. The mean daily ethanol intake was 4.05 g kg(-1), corresponding to the consumption of 41 of wine (10% alcohol) or 0.71 of whiskey (40% alcohol) by a man of 70 kg body wt. Exposure to ethanol caused a significant depletion in the testicular levels of glutathione (GSH), protein containing sulfhydryl groups, tocopherol and ascorbic acid, and an increase in the concentrations of malondialdehyde (index of lipid peroxidation) and carbonyl proteins (index of protein oxidation). Other effects were decreases in the concentration of adenosine 5'-triphosphate and in the activity of glutathione peroxidase, and an increase in the activity of alcohol dehydrogenase. In summary, this study shows that in the rat, daily consumption of ethanol in the drinking water increases lipid and protein oxidation. In addition to impaired antioxidant defence, an imbalance in energy production may also play a role in the toxic reaction to alcohol.


J Appl Toxicol. 1997 Sep-Oct;17(5):307-11.

gsolo
10-26-2008, 10:40 PM
Why not defend your original argument instead of trying to change the subject, smart guy?

I wasn't trying to change the subject

I was responding directly to your comment, lol /lol

FatAzz
10-26-2008, 11:06 PM
2 glasses of whiskey a day? you might have issues to think over, apart from retaining muscle. Why are there so many pro-alcohol posts in this thread? What are you all trying to prove? Wanting to drink everyday is an addiction. Does not matter how many glasses it takes to get drunk or whatever. Its the repetitive need.

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 11:15 PM
2 glasses of whiskey a day? you might have issues to think over, apart from retaining muscle. Why are there so many pro-alcohol posts in this thread? What are you all trying to prove? Wanting to drink everyday is an addiction. Does not matter how many glasses it takes to get drunk or whatever. Its the repetitive need.

are you really saying that someone who has a glass of with dinner most nights is an alcoholic?

FunkDaddy
10-26-2008, 11:22 PM
are you really saying that someone who has a glass of with dinner most nights is an alcoholic?

Good opportunity to clarify my point. Somebody who enjoys a glass of wine most nights, even every night, is most definately not an alcoholic. Somebody who CAN'T enjoy dinner WITHOUT a glass of wine or whiskey is on the road to alcoholism.

hooked4life
10-26-2008, 11:23 PM
Good opportunity to clarify my point. Somebody who enjoys a glass of wine most nights, even every night, is most definately not an alcoholic. Somebody who CAN'T enjoy dinner WITHOUT a glass of wine or whiskey is on the road to alcoholism.

agree.

bp16
10-26-2008, 11:53 PM
2 glasses of whiskey a day? you might have issues to think over, apart from retaining muscle. Why are there so many pro-alcohol posts in this thread? What are you all trying to prove? Wanting to drink everyday is an addiction. Does not matter how many glasses it takes to get drunk or whatever. Its the repetitive need.

Wanting to drink every day is not an addiction.

alan aragon
10-27-2008, 03:21 AM
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_1

Read thisOoh, I like this one :)

supra_gainer
10-27-2008, 04:15 AM
Ooh, I like this one :)

Good read Alan, thanks.

namtrag
10-27-2008, 06:35 AM
2 glasses of whiskey a day? you might have issues to think over, apart from retaining muscle. Why are there so many pro-alcohol posts in this thread? What are you all trying to prove? Wanting to drink everyday is an addiction. Does not matter how many glasses it takes to get drunk or whatever. Its the repetitive need.

Sort of like lifting weights, I guess. I guess we are addicted to that as well if we lift every day

sladerwilson
10-27-2008, 09:21 AM
I can't see 2 glasses of whiskey killing you or messing up your BB program to the extreme that some here would like to think... although over the long haul it could lead to 3 glasses a day... then 4 and then 5 and so on. So... I will stick to a glass here and there - like at a party or such. I'm not about to make it a daily routine... but that's MY choice.

Know when enough is enough FOR YOU and you'll do ok.