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6weeksillbready
09-24-2008, 08:19 AM
Hey, currently i'm limited to oats and pasta pre workout and i don't know anything that i can eat post workout. Would appreciate any help. Many thanks.

Bedwards
09-24-2008, 08:22 AM
Hey, currently i'm limited to oats and pasta pre workout and i don't know anything that i can eat post workout. Would appreciate any help. Many thanks.

I'm assuming your taking a protein shake post-workout? Just grind up some oats and throw them in there. :)

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 08:22 AM
take a shake w/ 2 scoops whey and about 40-60 grams of a fast digesting carb like sugar or dextrose.

about an hour later have a whole food meal of 30-40 grams of both lean protein(chicken, fish, lean beef, ect) and complex carbs (oats, yams, brown rice, ww bread or pasta, ect.)

scoot557
09-24-2008, 09:05 AM
take a shake w/ 2 scoops whey and about 40-60 grams of a fast digesting carb like sugar or dextrose.

about an hour later have a whole food meal of 30-40 grams of both lean protein(chicken, fish, lean beef, ect) and complex carbs (oats, yams, brown rice, ww bread or pasta, ect.)

Fairly sound advice, although straightup simple carbs post-workout is not a necessity.

I much prefer to vary my carb sources immediately post workout.

I.T.Geek
09-24-2008, 09:11 AM
lean meats and green veggies are always good post work out.

InclineVet
09-24-2008, 09:33 AM
Pre workout I have two whole eggs and some toast. Post workout I have my Dark Matter shake followed by a tin of tuna half hour later.

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 10:06 AM
Fairly sound advice, although straightup simple carbs post-workout is not a necessity.

I much prefer to vary my carb sources immediately post workout.

No matter the source, the point is to replenish glycogen stores. A carb low in fiber, requiring little digestion is optimal.

Jules Verne
09-24-2008, 10:10 AM
Apparently it doesn't matter what you eat or when you eat it anymore...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=110767871

:rolleyes:

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 10:12 AM
Apparently it doesn't matter what you eat or when you eat it anymore...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=110767871

:rolleyes:

Lol, any cellualr biology class would show otherwise

deejaykaydee
09-24-2008, 10:30 AM
This is the part where the thread turns epic.

Jules Verne
09-24-2008, 10:32 AM
This is the part where the thread turns epic.

I apologize. Perhaps I should delete that post?

scoot557
09-24-2008, 10:34 AM
No matter the source, the point is to replenish glycogen stores. A carb low in fiber, requiring little digestion is optimal.


What's your hurry?

BuckSpin
09-24-2008, 10:47 AM
This is the part where the thread turns epic.

The ride on the other one just started to slow down. Here we go again....

scoot557
09-24-2008, 10:53 AM
The ride on the other one just started to slow down. Here we go again....

Let's keep this one going. I could use some entertainment, today is boring at work.

7Happy7
09-24-2008, 10:59 AM
a sausage link (around 170 calories) preworkout gives you a nice dose of saturated fat for energy

liftjunkie06
09-24-2008, 11:01 AM
I do oats for both, with egg whites and whey (eggs eaten seperately).

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 11:45 AM
What's your hurry?

When a cell has adequate glycogen (energy) and is fully hydrated, proper cellular repair and reproduction can occur.

After an intense workout muscle cells are torn down obviously... So, the sooner you can get nutrients to the muscle the better, as leaving them in a atophic state for too long will result in less gains. There is a window post workout, where a spike in insulin will drive nutrients into cells. Consuming simple carbohydrates that are quickly digested w/ a high GI will cause this spike, aiding in recovery. This is the one time of day high GI carbs are good.

Another reason to consume simple carbs is because of the body's lower amount of blood avalible for digestion. After a workout, a significat amount of your body's blood is filling you muscle cells. This takes away from your intestianal system's ability to digest food, so a nutrient requiring little digestion, will get to the muscle faster versus a food that must first be broken down.

scoot557
09-24-2008, 11:56 AM
When a cell has adequate glycogen (energy) and is fully hydrated, proper cellular repair and reproduction can occur.

After an intense workout muscle cells are torn down obviously... So, the sooner you can get nutrients to the muscle the better, as leaving them in a atophic state for too long will result in less gains. There is a window post workout, where a spike in insulin will drive nutrients into cells. Consuming simple carbohydrates that are quickly digested w/ a high GI will cause this spike, aiding in recovery. This is the one time of day high GI carbs are good.

Another reason to consume simple carbs is because of the body's lower amount of blood avalible for digestion. After a workout, a significat amount of your body's blood is filling you muscle cells. This takes away from your intestianal system's ability to digest food, so a nutrient requiring little digestion, will get to the muscle faster versus a food that must first be broken down.

How do you feel about fat post-workout?

Dr. Horse
09-24-2008, 11:57 AM
How about a balanced meal?

scoot557
09-24-2008, 11:58 AM
How about a balanced meal?

I'm setting traps, if you don't mind - I'd like it if you didn't ruin the surprise.

Dr. Horse
09-24-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm setting traps, if you don't mind - I'd like it if you didn't ruin the surprise.

Oh sorry.

How about some waxy maize starch in a 6:5 ratio with crystalline dextrose?

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 12:05 PM
How do you feel about fat post-workout?

Better saved for the meal 1-2 hours after the immediate pw shake.

MAXMUSCLE86
09-24-2008, 12:07 PM
Preworkout: Apple and a protein shake.

Post workout: Gatorade and a Protein shake.

scoot557
09-24-2008, 12:20 PM
Better saved for the meal 1-2 hours after the immediate pw shake.

True. That meal should be complete as well.

But the idea that post-workout has to be driven solely by Whey and Dextrose (or any other simple carb) is antiquated and not really backed in practice or study. Same thing as massive amounts of serum insulin. The optimal level hasn't been nailed down yet, but the common thought that you must have ridiculous surges in insulin is unnecessary. Eating a mixed meal pre-workout will generate enough insulin to help shunt muscle protein breakdown through a fairly thorough workout. Note here: volume is a bigger indicator of muscle glycogen loss, than intensity.

http://alan7218403.110mb.com/AARR%20Jan%202008.pdf

Read Page 4. Excellent analysis of some postworkout nutrition myths.

A great tidbit for discussion is how whole milk outperformed fat free milk in increasing net protein balance - yet had only 60% of the protein. The quantities were calorie matched, so the makeup of the whole milk was less protein/carbs, with more fat obviously.

So like I said - what's your hurry? Unless you have another bout of training shortly thereafter, attempting to replenish glycogen at blinding rates is unnecessary.

Muscle protein synthesis is elevated for up to 48h after resistance training.

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 12:32 PM
I don't know what gave you the idea that I was suggesting taking "massive amounts" of simple carbs to produce "ridiculous surges in insulin."

Read my origional post agian.


take a shake w/ 2 scoops whey and about 40-60 grams of a fast digesting carb like sugar or dextrose.

about an hour later have a whole food meal of 30-40 grams of both lean protein(chicken, fish, lean beef, ect) and complex carbs (oats, yams, brown rice, ww bread or pasta, ect.)

Here's a study from a peer reviewed, scholarly article that shows the effect of simple carbs post workout.
http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/18

scoot557
09-24-2008, 12:43 PM
I don't know what gave you the idea that I was suggesting taking "massive amounts" of simple carbs to produce "ridiculous surges in insulin."

Read my origional post agian.



Here's a study from a peer reviewed, scholarly article that shows the effect of simple carbs post workout.
http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/18

...was waiting for you to change the link from the thread in my signature, to the study.

Anyway - did you look at that study?


These findings suggest that it may be more advantageous to ingest a mixture of CHO's with PRO following exercise in order to promote a more sustained increase in blood glucose response.

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 12:59 PM
"It has typically been thought that glucose and insulin levels increase the greatest following ingestion of a high GI form of CHO and that combining high GI carbohydrates with PRO would optimize the insulin and glucose response following exercise. For this reason, post-exercise CHO/PRO supplements often contain dextrose, sucrose, or maltodextrin as the source of CHO. However, it is well known that the GI profile of CHOs may be altered when co-ingesting CHO with PRO, fat, and/or other nutrients due to influences on the energy density, osmolality, and/or gastric emptying rates GI of the meal [30,32,37-40]. Consequently, one can not assume that adding a high GI CHO to a PRO supplement will yield the most advantageous glucose and insulin response. In support of this contention, glucose levels were increased to the greatest degree when ingesting honey as the source of CHO rather than sucrose or maltodextrin. As noted previously, the honey powder used in this study contained fructose (31.5%), glucose (26%), wheat starch (25.3%), and maltose (4.7%). These findings suggest that it may be more advantageous to ingest a mixture of CHO's with PRO following exercise in order to promote a more sustained increase in blood glucose response."

This is simply stating that out of the 3 types of carbs they studied (table sugar, honey, and maltodextrin) honey worked best, because it is a combination of fructose, glucose, and starch.

If by "vary your carb sources" as stated earlier, you meant types of simple carbs, then I agree.

I'm saying that its less effective to ingest a whole food carb after workout, (such as bread, oats, or fiberous fruit), when compaired to a fast digesting powder or syrup.

scoot557
09-24-2008, 01:17 PM
This is simply stating that out of the 3 types of carbs they studied (table sugar, honey, and maltodextrin) honey worked best, because it is a combination of fructose, glucose, and starch.

If by "vary your carb sources" as stated earlier, you meant types of simple carbs, then I agree.

I'm saying that its less effective to ingest a whole food carb after workout, (such as bread, oats, or fiberous fruit), when compaired to a fast digesting powder or syrup.


...and this study is saying you're wrong. The reason they state to vary your carb sources is "to promote a more sustained increase in blood glucose response. " Hence a combination of simple (to elevate quickly) and complex (to maintain elevation) would be best, according to them.

As you just stated - honey has starch, albeit a minimal amount. That would be complex, and why it outperformed the others in this regard, even if only slightly. The simple/complex breakdown of honey isn't quite the mixture I would go for - but in this regard, you yourself just further backed up my vary your carb statement, although unknowingly/unwillingly...Thank you for ramming my point home.


/topic


I'm eagerly awaiting some responses to this, as it is far more interesting:


A great tidbit for discussion is how whole milk outperformed fat free milk in increasing net protein balance - yet had only 60% of the protein. The quantities were calorie matched, so the makeup of the whole milk was less protein/carbs, with more fat obviously.

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 01:29 PM
The difference we're arguing about is so minimal, its not even worth it.

As to respond to the milk thing:

Maybe due to the body having adiquate fat to fuel activity, thus never having to breakdown any of the protein (even though it is a less initial amount) for energy.

Also, while burning protein for energy, the body must break off a nitrate group, which must then be removed from the body, taking energy. The nitrate group is toxic, and Im guessing that it may denature protein?? Thus negativly effecting the overall protein balance. Just a guess. Idk

Interesting, I've never heard that before...

borcic0
09-24-2008, 02:12 PM
I use chocolate milk post workout is that a bad thing? Im hearing its good because of insulin spikes and what not and it also contains a fair amount of protein. I have about 3 glasses equally 27 grams and about 50 something carbs. Is this a bad thing though because it does contain a sh*t load of sugar.

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 02:24 PM
Milk digests too slow, you shouldn't be relying on it for all your protein post workout.

Get a whey supplement.

Bioteknik
09-24-2008, 03:41 PM
but milk can easily hold you over until you can prepare your meal..

The need for fast-acting protein immediately postworkout is vastly overrated. Not needed at all if you had a sufficient pre-workout meal and can prepare your postworkout meal in a reasonable amount of time once your'e done working out.

Dr. Horse
09-24-2008, 03:41 PM
Milk digests too slow, you shouldn't be relying on it for all your protein post workout.

Get a whey supplement.

Thanks BRO!

Shinjan
09-24-2008, 03:47 PM
Milk digests too slow, you shouldn't be relying on it for all your protein post workout.

Get a whey supplement.

lol?... i use milk almost everyday postworkout, hasn't hindered any gains for me, I've been gaining about a pound every two weeks for a good three months now.

o and to the OP, there's a sticky on pre, and post workout nutrition... here i'll even link you to it

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

PumpJunky
09-24-2008, 04:16 PM
Do whatever you want. If you feel like you're getting gains with milk, go with it by all means.


but milk can easily hold you over until you can prepare your meal..

The need for fast-acting protein immediately postworkout is vastly overrated. Not needed at all if you had a sufficient pre-workout meal and can prepare your postworkout meal in a reasonable amount of time once your'e done working out.

The need for protein isn't overrated, there have been countless studies showing it has a significant impact, increasing both muscle size and strength.


lol?... i use milk almost everyday postworkout, hasn't hindered any gains for me, I've been gaining about a pound every two weeks for a good three months now.

o and to the OP, there's a sticky on pre, and post workout nutrition... here i'll even link you to it

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

If you've only been working out 3 months, you probably don't need any extra protein, and milk will work. After you gain all you're noob gains and hit a wall, a protein supplement would be good.