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View Full Version : **Tribulus(Protodioscin) Increases LH/Testosterone**



TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:29 AM
Let's get the facts straight...

Tribulus PLANT will NOT increase Testosterone levels. However, a STANDARDIZED Tribulus Extract containing at least 10% Protodioscin will most definitely increase testosterone production.

Bulgarian Tribulus has been used to effectively increase testosterone levels for decades. In fact, the pharmaceutical company called "Sopharma Bulgaria" launched a huge research project into the herb ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO, and as a consequence of these studies, brought the very first high-grade effective Tribulus preparation to the PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY(and later the supplement market), called "Tribestan". These studies found that Tribulus' active components are steroidal saponins of the furostanol type, isolated from the epigeous part of the Tribulus terrestris L. plant. Therefore, Tribestan was standardized on a base of the predominating compound, protodioscin.

Here are the studies from Sopharma that demonstrate Tribulus(Protodioscin) Increases Testosterone:



TRIBESTAN EFFECT ON THE CONCENTRATION OF SOME HORMONES IN THE SERUM OF HEALTHY SUBJECTS

S. Milanov, A. Maleeva, M. Taskov

RIRR - Radioisotope and Radioimmunological Laboratory, Sofia

Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute,
Sofia, Bulgaria

SUMMARY

Tribestan effect has been studied on the serum concentration of hypophyseal hormones, of ACTH, STH, LH, FSH, adrenal hormone aldosterone and cortisol and sex hormones - testosterone and estradiol. The experiments have been carried out on 8 males and 8 females, aged 28 - 45 years of age. The product was perorally administered in a single dose of 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days. Serum samples were withdrawn at 8 a.m. and 12 a.m., prior to and post treatment. The product has been established not to change essentially the concentrations of adrenal hormones and of ACTH. The hypophyseal-gonadal axis however has significantly been affected in the females with predominantly increased concentration of FSH and estradiol and in the males - mainly of LH and the testosterone. The mechanism of that action is presumed to be complicated and realized both by direct effect on gonadal apparatus and by the tropic hormones.
The probable established changes in the concentration of the hormones studied do not get out of the frames of the physiological limits.

The lyophilized extract of Tribulus terrestris, introduced in veterinary practice as TB-68, has pronounced sex-stimulating function. The initial studies of this product showed that it stimulates the spermatogenesis of albino rats (Vankov S., et al., 1973) and enhanced the ovulation of female rats (Vankov S. et al. 1973). Zarkova S. (1976) has also established in rats an increased number of spermatogonia, spermatocytes as well as increase of neutral mucopolysaccharides in seminiferous tubules of the testes. Gendzhev Z. and S. Zarkova, in other experiments (1978) proved the increase of spermatic reserve in the epididymis of rats.

With the view to the need of human medicine of a product stimulating sexual function, Tribestan was formulated on the base of the indicated phytochemical product. It contains saponins of furostanol type (Tomova M. et al., 1978). The first studies of Tribestan confirmed its high sex-stimulating activity in experimental animals (Zarkova S., 1981). Later, the clinical studies established a similar stimulating effect in humans as well (Protich M. at al. 1981). The present study was carried out with a view to throwing light on some aspects of the mechanism of that action of Tribestan, aiming at attaining an effect from the product on the serum concentration of some hypophyseal, sexual and adrenal hormones.

MATERIALS AND METHODS

The experiments were performed on 16 subjects (8 females and 8 males), aged 28-45. All subjects were in good health, without any complaints and good capacity for work. The following schedule was used:
1. The basic levels of hypophysiotropic hormones (ACTH, STH, LH, FSH), of sexual hormones (testosterone and estradiol) and of adrenal hormones (aldosterone and cortisol) were determined. They were determined twice, at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. - one day prior to Tribestan treatment.
2. The treatment with the product was initiated on the following day, which was periodically administered, 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days.
3. After the termination of Tribestan treatment (day sixth after the initiation of the experiment), blood was again withdrawn (at the same hour - 8:00 a.m. and 12 p.m.) for the determination of the concentration of the indicated hormones.

The work proceeded in the following way: after centrifugation of 6 - 8 ml blood, the serum obtained was frozen at 20?C till the day of the determination of hormonal concentration. The determination was performed by radioimmune tests. LH and FSH were determined by the modified method of Midgley A.R., (1967), making use of some kits of Biodata company, Italy and ACTH and STH - according to the method of Berson S.A. and R. S. Yalow (1963). Testosterone was evaluated by the method of William R. H. (1968), and of estradiol by Orezyk G.P. et al. (1974), making use of kits of Sorin Company, Belgium for both hormones. The adrenal hormones cortisol and aldosterone were also determined by kits of that company, making use of Vescei P. (1974) and of William G and R. Hunderwood (1974).

The obtained results were statistically processed by variation analysis, by Student - t test.

RESULTS AND DISCUSSION

As could be seen from Table 1, LH level in the males was elevated with a high significance after the treatment (p < 0.001). The changes affected both samples to the same rate (at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m.). FSH concentration was not affected under the same conditions. The other two hypophyseal hormones, ACTH and STH were not changed.

An insignificant tendency to elevation was observed in STH level (mean values - 2.9 prior to and 3.2 mg/ml post treatment) in some of the cases. The level of sex hormones was strongly affected. Thus testosterone concentration was three-fold (2) increased and that of estradiol - about 1.5 times (Table 1).

Table 1
Hormone Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 13.0 14.38(1) 37.25 24.75
SX 0.64 0.73 1.01 0.79
Pt 0.001 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 13.38 13.50 13.38 11.38
SX 0.35 0.28 0.35 0.36
Pt >0.5 >0.5
Testosterone, ng % X 628 610 882 845
SX 48 46 35 32
Pt <0.001 <0.001
Estradiol pg/ml X 79 76 133 137.5
SX 3.46 2.24 6.72 5.86
Pt <0.001 <0.001

LH concentration was also increased in females under Tribestan effect. What impressed was that the significance was lower than the first sample. The greatest discrepancy, as compared with the results of the males, was the sharp stimulation of FSH. A strong effect was observed there, which could be explained by blood withdrawal during the early phase of the menstrual cycle, the so-called follicular phase. Estradiol was also strongly affected (Pt < 0.001), whereas testosterone in the females during the early hours of the day was less affected (Table 2).

Table 2
Hormone
Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 15.25 13.50 17.13 16.88
SX 0.64 0.87 0.73 0.35
Pt 0.02 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 11.00 11.88 17.75 15.25
SX 0.13 0.09 0.71 0.38
Pt 0.001 0.001
Estradiol mIU/ml X 72.13 59.38 77.13 87.50
SX 6.02 5.73 5.47 3.24
Pt 0.5 0.001

The level of adrenal hormone was identically affected both in males and females (Table 3). A significant increase of the concentration was also established though that effect had a relatively low significance (p < 0.05). At the same time, cortisol level was no changed (Table 3).



Table 3
Aldosterone Cortisol
Prior to Post Prior to Post
X 11.59 13.77 8.63 8.63
S 2.52 3.48 2.20 1.92
SX 0.63 0.87 0.55 0.48
Pt 0.05 0.05

The results obtained provided grounds to admit that Tribestan had a pronounced stimulating effect on the secretion of some hormones. The effect on the hormones along the hypophyseal-gonadal axis was particularly well manifested. The effect was manifested both at hypophyseal and gonadal level. Some sexual discrepancies were also established. Thus, FSH was mainly affected in the females. The presence of that hormone is exceptionally important during the follicular phase for the development of the follicle. When its development is stimulated, its secretory ability is also intensified and hence - estradiol level is elevated. Lutenizing hormone is more strongly influenced in the male, which on its part stimulates the secretion of testosterone.

ACTH and cortisol were not changed suggesting that they were not significantly involved in the realization of Tribestan effects. The tendency of stimulation of STH and aldosterone explained the activation of the anabolic processes in the body and general stimulating action of the product. The absence of effect on the level of cortisol showed however that the general tonic action was very strongly manifested.

It should be stressed that the level of the hormones studied did not go out beyond the physiological frames i.e. it did not disturb the physiological mechanisms of hormonal regulation.

References

Vankov S., S. Zarkova, Z. Gendzhev, M. Tomova - Effect of TB-68 on the spermatogenesis in albino rats. Proceeding of the Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 161-163.
Vankov S., S. Zarkova, M. Tomova - TB-68 effect on ovulation of albino rats. Proceedings of Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 165-167.
Gendzhev Z., S. Zarkova - Effect of the phyto-pharmaceutical TB-68 on the number of spermatozoa in epididymis of rat. Med. Archive, 1978, N I, 113-118.
Dimova P., M. Taskov - Comparative enzyme-histological studies of some phyto-products. MBI (at the printer's), 1981.
Zarkova S. - Morphological and histological changes in testes of rat under the effect of TB-68, Med. Archive, 1976, N 4, 49-53.
Protich M., D. Zvetanov, V. Nalbanski, R.Stanislavov, M.Kazarova - Clinical trial of Tribestan on infertile males, MBI (at the printer's).
Tomova M., V. Gyulemetova, S. Zarkova - Author's certificate N 77584 A 61 K 35/1978.
Berson S.A., R. S. Yalow - Immunoassay of protein hormones, The Hormones, Vol. V, Acad. Press., New York, 1963.
Midgley A.R. - Radioimmunoassay for Human, J. Clin. Endocr., 1967, 27, 295.
Orezyk, Gaylo P., Burton v. Caldwell, Harold H. Behrmaan - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay - Ed. B. Jaffe, H. Berhmaan, A6. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 333-343.
Vescei P. - Glicocorticoids: Cortisol Corticosterone - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London 393-412.
William R.H. - Textbook of Endocrinology 4th Edit. Saunder, Philadelphia, 1968.
Williams Gordon H., Richard H. Hunderwood - Methods of Hormon Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 371-390.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES BELOW ARE NOT PART OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENT

Corrections:

Corrected value to 14.38 where previous value erroneously published was 14.28. (Date of correction 01/16/2002.
Inconsistency in the statement three-fold and table values. Corresponds to English translated document. Needs comparison with original document in Bulgarian language. Further investigation underway.

MBSowards
09-22-2008, 07:30 AM
Up early on a Monday morning like me, eh? :(

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:31 AM
The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.

Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.

Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:32 AM
Up early on a Monday morning like me, eh? :(

About to head in to office, doing my morning rounds. :)

How was your weekend bro?

MBSowards
09-22-2008, 07:32 AM
About to head in to office, doing my morning rounds. :)

How was your weekend bro?

Good, spent it with the GF. Yours?

sonicology
09-22-2008, 07:33 AM
Up early on a Monday morning like me, eh? :(

What better start to the day is there than reading page after page of the same old studies copy and pasted from Pubmed?

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:37 AM
Good, spent it with the GF. Yours?

Weekend was great, beautiful weather here in NJ! :)

How long have you been with your girl?

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:38 AM
What better start to the day is there than reading page after page of the same old studies copy and pasted from Pubmed?


I see a BUNCH of people claiming that Tribulus doesn't increase testosterone, when that is not the entire truth. A standardized extract containing at least 10% Protodioscin will increase LH/Testosterone.

MBSowards
09-22-2008, 07:38 AM
Weekend was great, beautiful weather here in NJ! :)

How long have you been with your girl?

2 years today actually.

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:40 AM
2 years today actually.

Congrats!!! How did I know that!?!? I am telling you man, sometimes I freak myself out, I seriously KNEW that it was an aniversary!:)

jeff3kids
09-22-2008, 07:40 AM
Your study is NOT peer reviewed, so it means nothing. Its just more snake oil, Barnum and Bailey styled marketing IMO.

Step right up Folks and see the AMAZING test booster, Androgenerator. on sale now, for a limited time only...........

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:42 AM
Your study is NOT peer reviewed, so it means nothing. Its just more snake oil, Barnum and Bailey styled marketing IMO.

Step right up Folks and see the AMAZING test booster, Androgenerator. on sale now, for a limited time only...........

Why don't you READ?

Look at the SECOND study, found on PubMed.

MBSowards
09-22-2008, 07:44 AM
Congrats!!! How did I know that!?!? I am telling you man, sometimes I freak myself out, I seriously KNEW that it was an aniversary!:)

Haha, impressive.


Your study is NOT peer reviewed, so it means nothing. Its just more snake oil, Barnum and Bailey styled marketing IMO.

Step right up Folks and see the AMAZING test booster, Androgenerator. on sale now, for a limited time only...........

Snakeoil actually is given a bad name when it could end up having benefits:

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/deserusan/2008/01/22/snake-oil-that-works/

:p

jeff3kids
09-22-2008, 07:45 AM
Why don't you READ?

Look at the SECOND study, found on PubMed.

Oh, you mean the one with castrated rats and rabbits as subjects? Your kidding, right?

jeff3kids
09-22-2008, 07:46 AM
Haha, impressive.



Snakeoil actually is given a bad name when it could end up having benefits:

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/deserusan/2008/01/22/snake-oil-that-works/

:p

Cool, I won't dis snake oil any more...

strength77
09-22-2008, 07:47 AM
I see a BUNCH of people claiming that Tribulus doesn't increase testosterone, when that is not the entire truth. A standardized extract containing at least 10% Protodioscin will increase LH/Testosterone.

I use tribulus and i like it a lot. It is cheap and makes increases my libido

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:48 AM
I use tribulus and i like it a lot. It is cheap and makes increases my libido

Well you are one of the more EDUCATED members, we already know that ;)

VaughnTrue
09-22-2008, 07:50 AM
i believe tribulus(protodioscin) to be effective at raising total testosterone.




I also believe there are more effective means at increasing testosterone.



Thanks for the studies.

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:59 AM
i believe tribulus(protodioscin) to be effective at raising total testosterone.




I also believe there are more effective means at increasing testosterone.



Thanks for the studies.

Solid post.

jeff3kids
09-22-2008, 08:02 AM
i believe tribulus(protodioscin) to be effective at raising total testosterone.




I also believe there are more effective means at increasing testosterone.



Thanks for the studies.

OK, I'll concede the possibility protodioscin might increase test in certain men, but there are absolutely better ways to increase test overall. Well put.

strength77
09-22-2008, 08:12 AM
I've dont pct without trib and with trib. My pct with trib has always resulted in faster recovery of libido. I don't have tests or studies but i can also tell you that when i take trib my uuhmmmmm,,,, man juice i guess you could say, has a LOT more volume.

No trib isnt going to put 15lbs of mass on you, but its an old school remedy. I have to think from my personal experience that it doing SOMEThing to my test levels, If not then why are my loads much bigger and erections stronger? Its a great healthy supp for any man.

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 07:44 PM
I've dont pct without trib and with trib. My pct with trib has always resulted in faster recovery of libido. I don't have tests or studies but i can also tell you that when i take trib my uuhmmmmm,,,, man juice i guess you could say, has a LOT more volume.

No trib isnt going to put 15lbs of mass on you, but its an old school remedy. I have to think from my personal experience that it doing SOMEThing to my test levels, If not then why are my loads much bigger and erections stronger? Its a great healthy supp for any man.

Amen.

Furthermore, Tribulus extract is just ONE of many powerful testosterone-boosting ingredients found in AndroGenerator.

jblaze4lif
09-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Do you guys know anything about Fadogia Agrestis PE .. it basically came for free with my "TNT" stack. I was reading something about increasing cholesterol production in the testes ... the building block for testosterone.

Anything else anyone can add about Fadogia??

chasinSKURT
09-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Up early on a Monday morning like me, eh? :(

You catch Katt Williams on comedy central last night?

Yates Row T
09-22-2008, 07:59 PM
You catch Katt Williams on comedy central last night?

**** i wish i saw it, which one pimp chronicles or american hustle. Thats my ****ttttt

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 08:02 PM
Do you guys know anything about Fadogia Agrestis PE .. it basically came for free with my "TNT" stack. I was reading something about increasing cholesterol production in the testes ... the building block for testosterone.

Anything else anyone can add about Fadogia??

Fadogia requires standardization of the actives, the PLANT does nothing; very much like Tribulus.

jblaze4lif
09-22-2008, 08:06 PM
Fadogia requires standardization of the actives, the PLANT does nothing; very much like Tribulus.

gotcha....

on the bottle of T-Force it says extracted to contain a full spectrum of alkaloids, saponins, anthraquinones and flavonoids.

bottle was free cant complain ....

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 08:09 PM
gotcha....

on the bottle of T-Force it says extracted to contain a full spectrum of alkaloids, saponins, anthraquinones and flavonoids.

bottle was free cant complain ....

Just do a google on "Fadogia" and you will find my article on what I think about T-Force. ;)

Fadogia needs to be standardized for the ACTIVE saponin, not a "full spectrum of alkaloids, saponins, anthraquinones and flavonoids", which is just evasive language.

nni
09-22-2008, 08:10 PM
Just do a google on "Fadogia" and you will find my article on what I think about T-Force. ;)

Fadogia needs to be standardized for the ACTIVE saponin, not a "full spectrum of alkaloids, saponins, anthraquinones and flavonoids", which is just evasive language.

id rather get my science and supplement facts from the fortune teller machine from the movie "Big." if zoltar is unavailable, then a magic eight ball will do.

chasinSKURT
09-22-2008, 08:11 PM
id rather get my science and supplement facts from the fortune teller machine from the movie "Big." if voltaire is unavailable, then a magic eight ball will do.

I'd rather dance on the big piano :)

hate that movie

jblaze4lif
09-22-2008, 08:12 PM
yea read it ... omega responded with this comment LOL

"1. Fadogia DOES increase testosterone. We have the blood tests to prove it.
2. We use stem exclusively in our product.
3. I created a testing reference standard at Chromadex Labs based on stem material that is used in our product.
4. Omega is the only company to do this and the only certified product on the market.
5. We have a double your money back gaurentee is you use T-Force and your testosterone does not raise at least 200 points."

I wish i had to cash to get t levels checked before and after .. ohhhh welll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

flexin007
09-22-2008, 08:24 PM
AndroTest kicks ass is all I know. I wouldn't take it again just because I don't want to mess with the stuff, but it works very well. My strength was unreal. Been years however. Now I'm fat. :D (not for long)

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 08:26 PM
yea read it ... omega responded with this comment LOL

"1. Fadogia DOES increase testosterone. We have the blood tests to prove it.
2. We use stem exclusively in our product.
3. I created a testing reference standard at Chromadex Labs based on stem material that is used in our product.
4. Omega is the only company to do this and the only certified product on the market.
5. We have a double your money back gaurentee is you use T-Force and your testosterone does not raise at least 200 points."

I wish i had to cash to get t levels checked before and after .. ohhhh welll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number 2 was shown to be FALSE, they use seed, stem and plant.( Matt[owner] called me on phone)

:)

canuhandleit
09-22-2008, 08:30 PM
I thought you were leaving? Can you leave?

jblaze4lif
09-22-2008, 08:39 PM
Number 2 was shown to be FALSE, they use seed, stem and plant.( Matt[owner] called me on phone)

:)

I wonder if t-force really increases test 200 ng/dl .... would be pretty awesome i must say!!!!

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 09:07 PM
I wonder if t-force really increases test 200 ng/dl .... would be pretty awesome i must say!!!!

LJ100 increased testosterone even more, check out the anabolic study here:http://www.source-1-global.com/pdfs/LJ100-Clinical-Studies.pdf

Bloute
09-22-2008, 09:14 PM
Why didnt you contribute to an existing thread ?

Supplement science section :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/search.php?searchid=164347971

If you want to promote/pimp :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85

:rolleyes:

Bloute
09-22-2008, 09:15 PM
BTW, isnt it the first study link with sopharma ? I always thought it was only promotion stuff.

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 09:17 PM
BTW, isnt it the first study link with sopharma ? I always thought it was only promotion stuff.

Sopharma produced the first Tribulus derived DRUG(sold as a pharmaceutical in Europa).

VaughnTrue
09-22-2008, 09:18 PM
Why didnt you contribute to an existing thread ?

Supplement science section :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/search.php?searchid=164347971

If you want to promote/pimp :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85

:rolleyes:

agreed. what happened to leaving ross?

_J-BONE_
09-22-2008, 09:35 PM
Cliffs on the article..it's been a long day and I refuse to numb my mind anymore than has been done so in the past 17hrs of being awake.

ZDub212
09-22-2008, 09:47 PM
Omega T-Force seems more promising. That's just my personal opinion.

Mainly because nothing in Androgenerator seems ground breaking, or could possibly live up to the holy grail claims that Ross is making about this and Omnibolic.

kappaz
09-22-2008, 09:57 PM
yea read it ... omega responded with this comment LOL

"1. Fadogia DOES increase testosterone. We have the blood tests to prove it.
2. We use stem exclusively in our product.
3. I created a testing reference standard at Chromadex Labs based on stem material that is used in our product.
4. Omega is the only company to do this and the only certified product on the market.
5. We have a double your money back gaurentee is you use T-Force and your testosterone does not raise at least 200 points."

I wish i had to cash to get t levels checked before and after .. ohhhh welll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought this was interesting below


I was interested in Fadogia, but recently I know Muscle Pharm pulled the Fadogia out of Battle Fuel because of a study they found that showed it lowered Test levels, although I never saw that study.


I can tell you this.. I had blood work done and total test was mid 400's, after 2 months of fadogia it was low 300's.. However my libido was through the roof on fadogia.. I only had total test taken, so i don't have a whole lot of knowledge on what else changed(free/lh,etc)

It could have been coicidental, but it does go along with what you are saying.



I see a BUNCH of people claiming that Tribulus doesn't increase testosterone, when that is not the entire truth. A standardized extract containing at least 10% Protodioscin will increase LH/Testosterone.

I'm using 40% Protodioscin found in Hypertest. I finish the bottle on Thursday and will try to get my test checked on Friday. I'm interested to what type of change there may be.

TheSupremeBeing
09-22-2008, 11:24 PM
Omega T-Force seems more promising. That's just my personal opinion.

Mainly because nothing in Androgenerator seems ground breaking, or could possibly live up to the holy grail claims that Ross is making about this and Omnibolic.

It's called LJ100 my friend, and NOTHING is as powerful for naturally increasing androgen levels. Not to mention, AndroGenerator contains a HOST of other powerful t-boosting ingredients.

Please do some research on the formula before you make premature conclusions. ;)

GeneGnomeX
09-22-2008, 11:37 PM
I see a BUNCH of people claiming that Tribulus doesn't increase testosterone, when that is not the entire truth. A standardized extract containing at least 10% Protodioscin will increase LH/Testosterone.

100mg of extract with a 10% Protodioscin content
1001mg of extract with a 1% Protodioscin content

Which is better?

thisisbull
09-23-2008, 02:42 AM
I've been using Thermolife Tribosten and it states 20% pure Protodioscin standardized.

Great sh_t. Makes me feel 10 yrs younger, at 2 pills a day, with no sides or PCT.

EXCELLENT all around, strength, mood, libido............just great.

ZDub212
09-23-2008, 07:00 AM
It's called LJ100 my friend, and NOTHING is as powerful for naturally increasing androgen levels. Not to mention, AndroGenerator contains a HOST of other powerful t-boosting ingredients.

Please do some research on the formula before you make premature conclusions. ;)

Prove it.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 08:52 AM
Prove it.

Sure, BUY 1 GET 1 FREE my man, MONEY BACK GUARANTEE for you.

VaughnTrue
09-23-2008, 08:55 AM
Sure, BUY 1 GET 1 FREE my man, MONEY BACK GUARANTEE for you.

thats not proving a thing.



you continue to claim LJ100 is the most anabolic natural compound out there, yet you have NO valid studies to back this up.



havent you realized how I post in response to you yet Ross? Or are you really that dense?


When you post ANYTHING that is dumb ****, I'm gonna call you out on it. However notice that I even agreed with you in this thread...why? Because you weren't lying, or misleading consumers.



Start telling the damn truth, and not making ur **** out to be steroids, and I'll even help SUPPORT them. in the mean time...i hope explosive diarrhea leaves you toilet ridden for days on end.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 08:56 AM
I've been using Thermolife Tribosten and it states 20% pure Protodioscin standardized.

Great sh_t. Makes me feel 10 yrs younger, at 2 pills a day, with no sides or PCT.

EXCELLENT all around, strength, mood, libido............just great.

Yup, Tribosten is a solid Tribulus product, because it is standardized for the active.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:00 AM
thats not proving a thing.



you continue to claim LJ100 is the most anabolic natural compound out there, yet you have NO valid studies to back this up.



havent you realized how I post in response to you yet Ross? Or are you really that dense?


When you post ANYTHING that is dumb ****, I'm gonna call you out on it. However notice that I even agreed with you in this thread...why? Because you weren't lying, or misleading consumers.



Start telling the damn truth, and not making ur **** out to be steroids, and I'll even help SUPPORT them. in the mean time...i hope explosive diarrhea leaves you toilet ridden for days on end.


Once again, here is a PUBMED study demonstrating the PRO-ANDROGENIC effect of Eurycoma:

Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.

Ang HH, Cheang HS.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack were studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12 consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21 +/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and 49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 11693547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Here are many more on PubMed demonstrating a PRO-SEXUAL EFFECT:


Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice.

Ang HH, Lee KL, Kiyoshi M.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

Eurycoma longifolia Jack was investigated for sexual motivation activity in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders, using the modified open field and the modified runway choice methods. Each mouse received 500 mg/kg of one of 4 fractions of E. longifolia Jack, viz. chloroform, methanol, butanol, and water, whereas the mice in the control and yohimbine groups received 3 ml/kg of normal saline and 30 mg/kg of yohimbine daily respectively for 10 d. The results show a transient increase in the percentage of male mice responding to the right choice after chronic consumption of the fractions with 50 percent of the adult middle-aged male mice treated with E. longifolia Jack and yohimbine scoring the right choice after 8 and 5 days post-treatment respectively. In conclusion, this study has shown that E. longifolia Jack continues to enhance sexual motivation in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders.

PMID: 14964739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.

Ang HH, Ngai TH, Tan TH.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

The effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were studied on the sexual qualities of middle aged male rats after dosing them with 0.5 g/kg of various fractions of E. longifolia whilst the control group received 3 ml/kg of normal saline daily for 12 weeks. Results showed than E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats by decreasing their hesitation time as compared to controls with various fractions of E. longifolia Jack produced 865-916 (91-96), 860-914 (92-98), 850-904 (93-99), 854-890 (95-99), 844-880 (94-98), 840-875 (94-98), 830-870 (94-98), 825-860 (94-98), 820-850 (96-99), 800-840 (93-98), 750-795 (94-99) and 650-754 sec (82-95%) in contrast to controls which produced 950 (100), 934 (100), 910 (100), 900 (100), 895 (100), 890 (100), 885 (100), 880 (100), 855 (100), 860 (100), 800 (100) and 790 sec (100%) throughout the investigation period. Besides these, there was a transient increase in the % of the male rats responding to the right choice after chronic administration of 0.5 g/kg E. longifolia Jack, with more than 50% of the male rats scored right choice after 2 weeks post-treatment and the effect was more prominent at the dose of the observation period. However, there was no sexual enhancement of the middle aged male rats which consumed normal saline since only 45-55% of the male rats responded to right choice throughout the investigation period. Hence, this study shows that E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats, further supports the folkuse of E. longifolia Jack as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 13678248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:01 AM
Aphrodisiac evaluation in non-copulator male rats after chronic administration of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.

Ang HH, Ngai TH.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia.

The aphrodisiac effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (0.5 g/kg) was evaluated in noncopulator male rats using an electrical cage. Fractions of E. longifolia Jack decreased the hesitation time of noncopulator male rats, throughout the investigation period. Furthermore, it possessed a transient increase in the percentage of the male rats responding to the right choice, more than 50% of the male rats scored "right choice" after 3 weeks post-treatment and the effect became more prominent after 8 weeks post-treatment (only 40-50% of the control male rats responded to the right choice) using the electrical copulation cage. Hence, this study lends further support to the use of the plant by indigenous populations as a traditional medicine for its aphrodisiac property.

PMID: 11564133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.

HH, Ngai TH, Tan TH.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

The effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were studied on the sexual qualities of middle aged male rats after dosing them with 0.5 g/kg of various fractions of E. longifolia whilst the control group received 3 ml/kg of normal saline daily for 12 weeks. Results showed than E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats by decreasing their hesitation time as compared to controls with various fractions of E. longifolia Jack produced 865-916 (91-96), 860-914 (92-98), 850-904 (93-99), 854-890 (95-99), 844-880 (94-98), 840-875 (94-98), 830-870 (94-98), 825-860 (94-98), 820-850 (96-99), 800-840 (93-98), 750-795 (94-99) and 650-754 sec (82-95%) in contrast to controls which produced 950 (100), 934 (100), 910 (100), 900 (100), 895 (100), 890 (100), 885 (100), 880 (100), 855 (100), 860 (100), 800 (100) and 790 sec (100%) throughout the investigation period. Besides these, there was a transient increase in the % of the male rats responding to the right choice after chronic administration of 0.5 g/kg E. longifolia Jack, with more than 50% of the male rats scored right choice after 2 weeks post-treatment and the effect was more prominent at the dose of the observation period. However, there was no sexual enhancement of the middle aged male rats which consumed normal saline since only 45-55% of the male rats responded to right choice throughout the investigation period. Hence, this study shows that E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats, further supports the folkuse of E. longifolia Jack as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 13678248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Sexual arousal in sexually sluggish old male rats after oral administration of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.

Ang HH, Lee KL, Kiyoshi M.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali in Malaysia, has been used in Malaysia to increase male virility and sexual prowess. The objective of this study is to evaluate sexual arousal in sexually sluggish old male rats, 24 months old and retired breeders, receiving 200, 400, or 800 mg/kg of various fractions of E. longifolia Jack, twice daily, for 10 days. Control rats received 3 ml/kg of normal saline. The aphrodisiac effect was monitored by the act of yawning and stretching because yawning, either alone or associated with stretching, is considered an ancestral vestige surviving throughout evolution that promotes sexual arousal. The results showed that 800 mg/kg of E. longifolia Jack increased yawning by 50% and stretching by 16.7% in sexually sluggish old male rats, by 676-719% and 31-336%, respectively, in sexually active male rats, and by 22-44% and 75-100%, respectively, in middle aged, 9 months old and retired breeders. We conclude that the results of this study support the folk use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 15803965 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

VaughnTrue
09-23-2008, 09:02 AM
Once again, here is a PUBMED study demonstrating the PRO-ANDROGENIC effect of Eurycoma:

Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.

Ang HH, Cheang HS.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack were studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12 consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21 +/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and 49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 11693547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Here are many more on PubMed demonstrating a PRO-SEXUAL EFFECT:


Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice.

Ang HH, Lee KL, Kiyoshi M.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

Eurycoma longifolia Jack was investigated for sexual motivation activity in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders, using the modified open field and the modified runway choice methods. Each mouse received 500 mg/kg of one of 4 fractions of E. longifolia Jack, viz. chloroform, methanol, butanol, and water, whereas the mice in the control and yohimbine groups received 3 ml/kg of normal saline and 30 mg/kg of yohimbine daily respectively for 10 d. The results show a transient increase in the percentage of male mice responding to the right choice after chronic consumption of the fractions with 50 percent of the adult middle-aged male mice treated with E. longifolia Jack and yohimbine scoring the right choice after 8 and 5 days post-treatment respectively. In conclusion, this study has shown that E. longifolia Jack continues to enhance sexual motivation in adult, middle-aged male mice and in retired breeders.

PMID: 14964739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.

Ang HH, Ngai TH, Tan TH.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, Penang, Malaysia. hhang@usm.my

The effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were studied on the sexual qualities of middle aged male rats after dosing them with 0.5 g/kg of various fractions of E. longifolia whilst the control group received 3 ml/kg of normal saline daily for 12 weeks. Results showed than E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats by decreasing their hesitation time as compared to controls with various fractions of E. longifolia Jack produced 865-916 (91-96), 860-914 (92-98), 850-904 (93-99), 854-890 (95-99), 844-880 (94-98), 840-875 (94-98), 830-870 (94-98), 825-860 (94-98), 820-850 (96-99), 800-840 (93-98), 750-795 (94-99) and 650-754 sec (82-95%) in contrast to controls which produced 950 (100), 934 (100), 910 (100), 900 (100), 895 (100), 890 (100), 885 (100), 880 (100), 855 (100), 860 (100), 800 (100) and 790 sec (100%) throughout the investigation period. Besides these, there was a transient increase in the % of the male rats responding to the right choice after chronic administration of 0.5 g/kg E. longifolia Jack, with more than 50% of the male rats scored right choice after 2 weeks post-treatment and the effect was more prominent at the dose of the observation period. However, there was no sexual enhancement of the middle aged male rats which consumed normal saline since only 45-55% of the male rats responded to right choice throughout the investigation period. Hence, this study shows that E. longifolia Jack enhanced the sexual qualities of the middle aged male rats, further supports the folkuse of E. longifolia Jack as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 13678248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

None of these are for LJ100.



I am still waiting on comparison studies between LJ100 and Divanil to prove that LJ100 has a much higher SHBG affinity than Divanil does.


I'm also waiting on studies showing that LJ100 is more anabolic/androgenic than any other LJ extract.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:03 AM
Here are the manufacturer studies on LJ100:

http://www.source-1-global.com/pdfs/LJ100-Clinical-Studies.pdf

VaughnTrue
09-23-2008, 09:04 AM
Here are the manufacturer studies on LJ100:

http://www.source-1-global.com/pdfs/LJ100-Clinical-Studies.pdf

who cares?


I could give you some INTENSE Bull-Shark testosterone studies we did here at i-Force HQ if you'd like

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:06 AM
None of these are for LJ100.



I am still waiting on comparison studies between LJ100 and Divanil to prove that LJ100 has a much higher SHBG affinity than Divanil does.


I'm also waiting on studies showing that LJ100 is more anabolic/androgenic than any other LJ extract.

You obviously do not know the difference between a PLANT and a standardized EXTRACT, which is what LJ100 is.

Heck, even a 20:1 or 50:1 is better than regular Long Jack, although these are only crude water extracts.

I posted the studies we have demonstrating LJ's high binding affinity for SHBG. There was no quantitative data on Divanil however.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:07 AM
who cares?


I could give you some INTENSE Bull-Shark testosterone studies we did here at i-Force HQ if you'd like

If you can get a PATENT for "Bull Shark Testosterone", then it works! :)
LJ100 is PATENTED--patented EXTRACTION process and PATENTED standardization of the actives.

VaughnTrue
09-23-2008, 09:07 AM
You obviously do not kno wthe difference between a PLANT and a standardized EXTRACT, which is what LJ100 is.

Heck, even a 20:1 or 50:1 is better than regular Long Jack, although these are only crude water extracts.

I posted the studies we have demonstrating LJ's high binding affinity for SHBG. There was no quantitative data on Divanil however.

Just because an you claim and extract is BETTER, doesn't make it the case.


When extracting for certain compounds, it is possible to leave necessary secondary and tertiary compounds that help enhance effects of said compounds, or inhibit side effects behind in the extraction.




None of your posts say ANYTHING...you just go in circles.

~Hades~
09-23-2008, 09:09 AM
I would totally buy this **** if I was a middle-aged male mouse or a testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rat.

I swear they get all the good products.

Sldge
09-23-2008, 09:35 AM
I see a BUNCH of people claiming that Tribulus doesn't increase testosterone, when that is not the entire truth. A standardized extract containing at least 10% Protodioscin will increase LH/Testosterone.

Thats because it doesnt increase test. Here are actual peer reviewed studies found on pubmed tested in HUMANS. No one will argue that tribulus is good for mice to use but in humans IT DOES NOT RAISE TESTOSTERONE.



Short term impact of Tribulus terrestris intake on doping control analysis of endogenous steroids.
Saudan C, Baume N, Emery C, Strahm E, Saugy M.
Swiss Laboratory for Doping Analyses, Institut Universitaire de M?decine L?gale, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois and University of Lausanne, Chemin des Croisettes 22, 1066 Epalinges, Switzerland.
Tribulus terrestris is a nutritional supplement highly debated regarding its physiological and actual effects on the organism. The main claimed effect is an increase of testosterone anabolic and androgenic action through the activation of endogenous testosterone production. Even if this biological pathway is not entirely proven, T. terrestris is regularly used by athletes. Recently, the analysis of two female urine samples by GC/C/IRMS (gas chromatography/combustion/isotope-ratio-mass-spectrometry) conclusively revealed the administration of exogenous testosterone or its precursors, even if the testosterone glucuronide/epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E) ratio and steroid marker concentrations were below the cut-off values defined by World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). To argue against this adverse analytical finding, the athletes recognized having used T. terrestris in their diet. In order to test this hypothesis, two female volunteers ingested 500mg of T. terrestris, three times a day and for two consecutive days. All spot urines were collected during 48h after the first intake. The (13)C/(12)C ratio of ketosteroids was determined by GC/C/IRMS, the T/E ratio and DHEA concentrations were measured by GC/MS and LH concentrations by radioimmunoassay. None of these parameters revealed a significant variation or increased above the WADA cut-off limits. Hence, the short-term treatment with T. terrestris showed no impact on the endogenous testosterone metabolism of the two subjects.

The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players.
Rogerson S, Riches CJ, Jennings C, Weatherby RP, Meir RA, Marshall-Gradisnik SM.
School of Exercise Science and Sport Management, Southern Cross University Lismore, New South Wales, Australia. srogerson10@bigpond.com
Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.
PMID: 17530942 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.
Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.
Human Performance Laboratory, University of Nebraska, Kearney, NE 68849-3101, USA.
The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.
PMID: 10861339 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.
Neychev VK, Mitev VI.
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. neychev@dir.bg
OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.
PMID: 15994038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Your study is NOT peer reviewed, so it means nothing. Its just more snake oil, Barnum and Bailey styled marketing IMO. ...
He knows its just fake marketing material supplied by the manufactuer but he doesnt care.


LJ100 increased testosterone even more, check out the anabolic study here:http://www.source-1-global.com/pdfs/LJ100-Clinical-Studies.pdf

That is NOT a study. Its marketing material. You know this because this is the 3 or 4th thread youve tried to pull this crap in.


It's called LJ100 my friend, and NOTHING is as powerful for naturally increasing androgen levels. ;)

Post actual proof.


Prove it.

He knows he cant but he may get a couple 16 year olds to fall for this crap which is why he keeps doing it.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:41 AM
Matt, those studies DID NOT USE A PROTODIOSCIN extract!

I already stated numerous times, Tribulus PLANT will do nothing.

PLANT: http://www.thinkmuscle.com/images/haycock/visual_raw-sm.jpg

EXTRACT: http://www.thinkmuscle.com/images/haycock/visual_extract-sm.jpg

COUNTRYMIKE
09-23-2008, 09:50 AM
Tribulus terrestris is a perennial plant, grown predominately in India and Africa. Tribulus is mentioned in ancient Indian Ayurvedic medical texts dating back thousands of years. Tribulus has been widely used in the Ayurvedic system of medicine for the treatment of sexual dysfunction and various urinary disorders. The Greeks used Tribulus Terrestris as a diuretic. In China and Vietnam it has been used in the treatment of post-partum hemorrhage, epistaxis and gastro intestinal bleeding. It is a South African remedy for inflammation and arthritis. In one study, Tribulus terrestris increased spermatogenesis and sexual activity in laboratory animals. Tribulus terrestris appears to raise/turn on natural testosterone production in men via the activation of hormone secretion and estradiol. Clinical studies in Bulgaria have shown Tribulus terrestris to increase the sex hormones LH (luteinizing hormone) level by 72% and the body's own free testosterone level by 41% in healthy adult males in only five days. LH regulates the testosterone production in the testes and high levels of LH coincide with high testosterone levels. Tribulus has become increasingly popular among athletes because it reportedly increases strength and stamina. Studies on Tribulus use are ongoing. The extract contains alkaloids, saponins, resins and nitrates and is popularly used as a sports nutrient in USA. The extract of the plant is recognized as a diuretic and aphrodisiac. It has anti-oxidant and hypolipedemic activities. Tribulus Terrestris extract was effectively used for nonspecific impotence and aging. It has been popularized as a natural remedy to enhance libido and fertility in both men and women.


Among the clinically significant effects of Tribulus terrestris identified in various human and animal studies are:

1.Improves muscle growth & body strength.
2.Reported to enhance libido sexualis & erectile function.
3.Reported to increase the number and motility of spermatozoa.
4. increases LH levels by 72% and testosterone levels by 41% in only five days.
5.Helps in alleviating some symptoms associated with male menopause.
6.Reduction in cholesterol.
7.Reductions in high blood pressure.
8.Inhibition of stress-induced clumping of blood platelets.
9.Increases in strength of contraction of the heart muscle.
10.Reductions in sodium and fluid retention.
11.Anti-urolithiatic (urinary/kidney stone preventing) and litholytic (dissolving) activities.
12.Improvement of the profile of red and white blood cells, including V and T lymphocytes and stimulation of the humoral immune system.
13.Anti-bacterial, anti-malarial and anti-fungal properties,Anti-inflammatory activity.
14.Analgesic effects.
15.No adverse effects.
16.No toxicity and side effects.
Tribulus is an excellent supplement to take at the end of a prohormone cycle to help kick start your own testosterone production again. And it can also be effectively used to increase strength gains and aid in helping you get over a plateau. for optimal results try to find a tribulus supplement that is standardized for 45% saponis.

And with specific regard to sexual function:

In men:increase libido, in potency and strength of erections, in the number and quality of sperm produced, and often, testosterone
In women:increases libido, improved sex hormone profile (increases in estradiol levels), mood and ovulation effects, and reductions in some menopausal symptoms


Here are some quick Tribulus facts:
Tribulus Terresteris is ecologically pure.
Tribulus is a natural aid to help impotence, low libido, and male infertility.
Clinically proven effect vie in enhancing energy and vitality.
Helps build muscle and strength.
Tribulus Terrestris is safe to use and it's not a hormone.

The role of Tribulus Terrestris in Easter European folk medicine for muscle strength and sexual potency led to two decades of formal (though secret) government-sponsored studies at the Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute in Sofia, Bulgaria culminating in the 1980s with a formula for improving physical and sexual performance. The most noted outcome of this research was the success of the Bulgarian weight lifting team which stunned the world in Olympic competition.
Tribulus Terrestris is used in various herbal formulas to treat headaches, eye problems such as itching, conjunctivitis and weak vision, and nervousness. It is also used to treat high blood pressure and rib pain.

Tribulus terrestris has been used in Europe as a treatment for impotence and as a stimulant to help enhance sexual drive and performance. Studies have also shown some evidence that this potent herb raises testosterone levels. It works differently than prohormones, such as Androstenedione and DHEA, because it is a natural stimulant of LH, a luteinizing hormone, which helps sustain your body??s normal testosterone levels. Clinical studies found Tribulus Terrestris increased sperm production and testosterone levels in men. Among women, Tribulus Terrestris was found to increase the concentration of hormones, with testosterone being very slightly influenced, thus improving reproductive function, libido, and ovulation. Tribulus also has a stimulating effect on the liver, helping to convert fats and cholesterol to hormones that results in energy. The increase in testosterone levels promotes a positive nitrogen balance which allows for faster recuperation and recovery from muscular exertion and stress.

strength77
09-23-2008, 09:54 AM
Matt, those studies DID NOT USE A PROTODIOSCIN extract!

I already stated numerous times, Tribulus PLANT will do nothing.



EXTRACT: http://www.thinkmuscle.com/images/haycock/visual_extract-sm.jpg


that looks yummy!

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:55 AM
Scientific Data

Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris differs significantly from the Tribulus Terrestris extracts from India and China.

Using a special method of harvesting and pharmaceutical preparation, Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris has a very high concentration of steroidal saponins. Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris do not.

There are three groups of active phytochemicals in Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris.

1. Dioscin, protodioscin, diosgenin, etc.
This first group has an effect on sexual performance and may treat various sexual disorders, sexual energy level and strength by increasing the percentage of free testosterone level for men, and effects pregnenolone, progesterone, estrogen, etc. The hormone balancing effects of Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris for women makes this product best for premenstrual syndrome and menopausal syndrome.

2. Sterols ? betasitosterols, stigma, etc.
This second group protects the prostate from swelling and in combination with the X steroidal saponins (third group listed below), protects the prostate from cancer.

3. Proprietary steroidal saponins currently referred to as X steroidal saponins.
These X steroidal saponins effect the immune system. They have been demonstrated to possess anti-bacterial and anti-viral (especially anti-herpes) effects. Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris may be used internally and externally to treat herpes, and virus infections such as influenza and the common cold.

Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris are made from a different part of the plant and is harvested at a different time of the year. The phytochemistry of Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris is considerably different from that of Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris is used as a diuretic, and is used to treat kidney stones. Chinese and Indian Tribulus Terrestris does not have the same pharmacological and physiological functions as Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. At the best, Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris have but a trace of group 1 and 1 phytochemicals, and contain virtually no X steroidal saponins. The Indian and Chinese producers extract for furostanols, which has no equivalent pharmacological effect to the Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Furostanols are not the active ingredient used to effect sexual physiology and to regulate hormone balance. As they exist in Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris, they are not absorbed and utilized by the body. However, all of the active Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris are readily absorbed and utilized in the body. This explains the radical difference in the effects of Tribulus Terrestris from different sources.

Bulgarian Tribulus utilizes the entire plant. It promotes the functions of the adrenal glands and can have profound benefits to menopausal women and to men with weakening sexual function. Tribulus also has powerful, safe anti-inflammatory action.

alvin1
09-23-2008, 09:57 AM
Scientific Data

Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris differs significantly from the Tribulus Terrestris extracts from India and China.

Using a special method of harvesting and pharmaceutical preparation, Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris has a very high concentration of steroidal saponins. Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris do not.

There are three groups of active phytochemicals in Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris.

1. Dioscin, protodioscin, diosgenin, etc.
This first group has an effect on sexual performance and may treat various sexual disorders, sexual energy level and strength by increasing the percentage of free testosterone level for men, and effects pregnenolone, progesterone, estrogen, etc. The hormone balancing effects of Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris for women makes this product best for premenstrual syndrome and menopausal syndrome.

2. Sterols ? betasitosterols, stigma, etc.
This second group protects the prostate from swelling and in combination with the X steroidal saponins (third group listed below), protects the prostate from cancer.

3. Proprietary steroidal saponins currently referred to as X steroidal saponins.
These X steroidal saponins effect the immune system. They have been demonstrated to possess anti-bacterial and anti-viral (especially anti-herpes) effects. Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris may be used internally and externally to treat herpes, and virus infections such as influenza and the common cold.

Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris are made from a different part of the plant and is harvested at a different time of the year. The phytochemistry of Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris is considerably different from that of Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris is used as a diuretic, and is used to treat kidney stones. Chinese and Indian Tribulus Terrestris does not have the same pharmacological and physiological functions as Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. At the best, Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris have but a trace of group 1 and 1 phytochemicals, and contain virtually no X steroidal saponins. The Indian and Chinese producers extract for furostanols, which has no equivalent pharmacological effect to the Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Furostanols are not the active ingredient used to effect sexual physiology and to regulate hormone balance. As they exist in Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris, they are not absorbed and utilized by the body. However, all of the active Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris are readily absorbed and utilized in the body. This explains the radical difference in the effects of Tribulus Terrestris from different sources.

Bulgarian Tribulus utilizes the entire plant. It promotes the functions of the adrenal glands and can have profound benefits to menopausal women and to men with weakening sexual function. Tribulus also has powerful, safe anti-inflammatory action.


What about the german tribulus nutrex use ! I am on vitrix right now, so far increase load , libido, and better pump !

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 09:59 AM
What about the german tribulus nutrex use ! I am on vitrix right now, so far increase load , libido, and better pump !

Vitrix is good stuff!

strength77
09-23-2008, 09:59 AM
What about the german tribulus nutrex use ! I am on vitrix right now, so far increase load , libido, and better pump !

next time try androgenerator.

you will like it, trust me

if you like trib, youll love it

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 10:00 AM
next time try androgenerator.

you will like it, trust me

if you like trib, youll love it

Amen bro :)

alvin1
09-23-2008, 10:02 AM
next time try androgenerator.

you will like it, trust me

if you like trib, youll love it

Will do !

Sldge
09-23-2008, 10:18 AM
Matt, those studies DID NOT USE A PROTODIOSCIN extract!

I already stated numerous times, Tribulus PLANT will do nothing.

PLANT: http://www.thinkmuscle.com/images/haycock/visual_raw-sm.jpg

EXTRACT: http://www.thinkmuscle.com/images/haycock/visual_extract-sm.jpg

Prove it using peer reviewed scientific studies based on use in HUMANS. Unless you have a 97-99% extract for just Protodioscin then every study I posted applies to your FALSE claims and proves that it does not work in humans.

Mixelflick
09-23-2008, 10:27 AM
Here are the manufacturer studies on LJ100:

http://www.source-1-global.com/pdfs/LJ100-Clinical-Studies.pdf

I do believe both Trib and Long Jack work.

I ran saliva tests via ZRT labs on a formula that increased my total test 55% in just 27 days. To be fair, the formula also contained some DHEA, Suma and Melatonin. I won't mention the name since I'm sure I'll be called a shill.

ATD does it best and cheapest. However, those concerned with suppressing Estrogen too much (it can certainly be detrimental to libido, not to mention lipid profiles) may want to look into a Trib/Longjack type product. Trib has been around for 15+ years for a reason, and I suspect Longjack will be with us for a long time too.

Swifto
09-23-2008, 11:42 AM
Tribulus terrestris is a perennial plant, grown predominately in India and Africa. Tribulus is mentioned in ancient Indian Ayurvedic medical texts dating back thousands of years. Tribulus has been widely used in the Ayurvedic system of medicine for the treatment of sexual dysfunction and various urinary disorders. The Greeks used Tribulus Terrestris as a diuretic. In China and Vietnam it has been used in the treatment of post-partum hemorrhage, epistaxis and gastro intestinal bleeding. It is a South African remedy for inflammation and arthritis. In one study, Tribulus terrestris increased spermatogenesis and sexual activity in laboratory animals. Tribulus terrestris appears to raise/turn on natural testosterone production in men via the activation of hormone secretion and estradiol. Clinical studies in Bulgaria have shown Tribulus terrestris to increase the sex hormones LH (luteinizing hormone) level by 72% and the body's own free testosterone level by 41% in healthy adult males in only five days. LH regulates the testosterone production in the testes and high levels of LH coincide with high testosterone levels. Tribulus has become increasingly popular among athletes because it reportedly increases strength and stamina. Studies on Tribulus use are ongoing. The extract contains alkaloids, saponins, resins and nitrates and is popularly used as a sports nutrient in USA. The extract of the plant is recognized as a diuretic and aphrodisiac. It has anti-oxidant and hypolipedemic activities. Tribulus Terrestris extract was effectively used for nonspecific impotence and aging. It has been popularized as a natural remedy to enhance libido and fertility in both men and women.


Among the clinically significant effects of Tribulus terrestris identified in various human and animal studies are:

1.Improves muscle growth & body strength.
2.Reported to enhance libido sexualis & erectile function.
3.Reported to increase the number and motility of spermatozoa.
4. increases LH levels by 72% and testosterone levels by 41% in only five days.
5.Helps in alleviating some symptoms associated with male menopause.
6.Reduction in cholesterol.
7.Reductions in high blood pressure.
8.Inhibition of stress-induced clumping of blood platelets.
9.Increases in strength of contraction of the heart muscle.
10.Reductions in sodium and fluid retention.
11.Anti-urolithiatic (urinary/kidney stone preventing) and litholytic (dissolving) activities.
12.Improvement of the profile of red and white blood cells, including V and T lymphocytes and stimulation of the humoral immune system.
13.Anti-bacterial, anti-malarial and anti-fungal properties,Anti-inflammatory activity.
14.Analgesic effects.
15.No adverse effects.
16.No toxicity and side effects.
Tribulus is an excellent supplement to take at the end of a prohormone cycle to help kick start your own testosterone production again. And it can also be effectively used to increase strength gains and aid in helping you get over a plateau. for optimal results try to find a tribulus supplement that is standardized for 45% saponis.

And with specific regard to sexual function:

In men:increase libido, in potency and strength of erections, in the number and quality of sperm produced, and often, testosterone
In women:increases libido, improved sex hormone profile (increases in estradiol levels), mood and ovulation effects, and reductions in some menopausal symptoms


Here are some quick Tribulus facts:
Tribulus Terresteris is ecologically pure.
Tribulus is a natural aid to help impotence, low libido, and male infertility.
Clinically proven effect vie in enhancing energy and vitality.
Helps build muscle and strength.
Tribulus Terrestris is safe to use and it's not a hormone.

The role of Tribulus Terrestris in Easter European folk medicine for muscle strength and sexual potency led to two decades of formal (though secret) government-sponsored studies at the Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute in Sofia, Bulgaria culminating in the 1980s with a formula for improving physical and sexual performance. The most noted outcome of this research was the success of the Bulgarian weight lifting team which stunned the world in Olympic competition.
Tribulus Terrestris is used in various herbal formulas to treat headaches, eye problems such as itching, conjunctivitis and weak vision, and nervousness. It is also used to treat high blood pressure and rib pain.

Tribulus terrestris has been used in Europe as a treatment for impotence and as a stimulant to help enhance sexual drive and performance. Studies have also shown some evidence that this potent herb raises testosterone levels. It works differently than prohormones, such as Androstenedione and DHEA, because it is a natural stimulant of LH, a luteinizing hormone, which helps sustain your body??s normal testosterone levels. Clinical studies found Tribulus Terrestris increased sperm production and testosterone levels in men. Among women, Tribulus Terrestris was found to increase the concentration of hormones, with testosterone being very slightly influenced, thus improving reproductive function, libido, and ovulation. Tribulus also has a stimulating effect on the liver, helping to convert fats and cholesterol to hormones that results in energy. The increase in testosterone levels promotes a positive nitrogen balance which allows for faster recuperation and recovery from muscular exertion and stress.

Where did you get this rubbish..Wikki?

Post some peer-reviewed studies that confirm, Lj100 raises endogenous testosterone, GH and IGF, whilst reducing cortisol.

While your at it, some on Tribulas too.

Until then, keep posting **** thats got no relevance to Ross's products and make yourself look more of a fool than you already have become, by repping for such a company.

Bane
09-23-2008, 12:02 PM
So Ross goes against Fadogia? Time for M.A.N. and Omega to join the Ross hateclub too?

VaughnTrue
09-23-2008, 12:10 PM
this is just comical. not one piece of actual proof for a single ingredient

Bane
09-23-2008, 12:14 PM
this is just comical. not one piece of actual proof for a single ingredient

Writing in CAPS>>>PrOOf

VaughnTrue
09-23-2008, 12:16 PM
i've turned myself into a post-whoring troll who no longer has anything left to offer this site

fixed

Bloute
09-23-2008, 01:19 PM
Lame pimping in this thread. I think some neg will fall on certain reps. :mad:

Bloute
09-23-2008, 01:22 PM
you will like it, trust me

if you like trib, youll love it

He asked about Nutrex ... :rolleyes:


.

Next time, you could post some real science instead. :rolleyes:

INGENIUM
09-23-2008, 01:23 PM
So Ross goes against Fadogia? Time for M.A.N. and Omega to join the Ross hateclub too?
you don't remember these gems?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106287721
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7643431

Bane
09-23-2008, 01:26 PM
you don't remember these gems?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106287721
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7643431

Nay I was busy setting up my drugstore back then and didn;t pay much attention to the forums. Thanks for the heads up :D

DBee
09-23-2008, 01:27 PM
OFF TOPIC:

To the SSE reps - I didn't even notice ROSS/SSE had reps...


THE RULES FOR COMPANY REPS

This is a list that is open for discussion. Do you have some rules that you believe we should add to this list? Post your ideas and if approved, I'll add them to this post.

1. All Company Reps must put which company they rep for in their SIGNATURE. Any hidden or undercover reps will be warned, then temp banned, then perma-banned.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:27 PM
you don't remember these gems?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106287721
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7643431

What are your thoughts on Protodioscin and Tribulus extracts?

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:28 PM
To the SSE reps - I didn't even notice ROSS had anymore reps...

Each and every SSE rep has it in their sig.

We have 5 REPS, and 2 more coming.

_J-BONE_
09-23-2008, 01:29 PM
you don't remember these gems?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106287721
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7643431

Please end the madness!


Each and every SSE rep has it in their sig.

We have 5 REPS, and 2 more coming.

Jeez..does Animal/Universal even have that many reps? They are a leading company on here with many more products and manage fine...overkill maybe

DBee
09-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Each and every SSE rep has it in their sig.

We have 5 REPS, and 2 more coming.

None have "SSE REP" in their signature they're all in the custom user title...

Not to nit pick, just going by the rules who knows maybe the mods are lenient on that.

Bloute
09-23-2008, 01:31 PM
http://www.asiaandro.com/1008-682X/4/143f2.jpg

gjohnson5
09-23-2008, 01:31 PM
The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.

Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.

Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.

Sup Ross??

In this study it says that
1. Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study.

What does would be effective for humans?

2. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant.

I'm still not sure if this is going to work because even in the study you posted only DHT was increased in rabbits. The only significant increase was the primates at 7.5mg/kg bodyweight

Understand where I'm coming from?

INGENIUM
09-23-2008, 01:32 PM
What are your thoughts on Protodioscin and Tribulus extracts?
for libido - yay

for increasing test (to any appreciable degree) - nay

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:33 PM
None have "SSE REP" in their signature they're all in the custom user title...

Look again silly, and it doesn't need to say "SSE Rep" it just needs to be an indication of what company is being represented.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:33 PM
Sup Ross??

In this study it says that
1. Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study.

What does would be effective for humans?

2. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant.

I'm still not sure if this is going to work because even in the study you posted only DHT was increased in rabbits. The only significant increase was the primates at 7.5mg/kg bodyweight

Understand where I'm coming from?

Look at the Bulgarian studies I posted above.

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:35 PM
for libido - yay

for increasing test (to any appreciable degree) - nay

Did you see the Bulgarian studies? Users experienced significant increases in LH and Testosterone, and even DHEA.

Swifto
09-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Look at the Bulgarian studies I posted above.

You mean the ones that are totally useless and arnt peer-reviewed and conducted by manufacturers/patent holders?

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:36 PM
You mean the ones that are totally useless and arnt peer-reviewed and conducted by manufacturers/patent holders?


Do you feel that way about Pharmaceutical DRUGS as well? Because most of the DRUGS that are approved by the FDA fall under such criteria.

Did you also know that Tribestan was sold in Europa as a DRUG?

INGENIUM
09-23-2008, 01:39 PM
Did you see the Bulgarian studies? Users experienced significant increases in LH and Testosterone, and even DHEA.
yeah, the Tribestan/sopharma ones? sure, I have seen them...and I have also seen many more that contradict that non-peer reviewed literature...and I have even used a 20% extract myself.

my experience + the collective literature = massive failure for increasing test

sorry

Sldge
09-23-2008, 01:41 PM
Sup Ross??

In this study it says that
1. Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study.

What does would be effective for humans?

2. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant.

I'm still not sure if this is going to work because even in the study you posted only DHT was increased in rabbits. The only significant increase was the primates at 7.5mg/kg bodyweight

Understand where I'm coming from?

Whats funnier is he choose to only highlight a portion of that sentence leaving the most important words out. Here is what it really says:
"possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract". Someone should fill him in on what "possibly" means.


Look at the Bulgarian studies I posted above. See below. /PWNED!


You mean the ones that are totally useless and arnt peer-reviewed and conducted by manufacturers/patent holders?

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:43 PM
yeah, the Tribestan/sopharma ones? sure, I have seen them...and I have also seen many more that contradict that non-peer reviewed literature...and I have even used a 20% extract myself.

my experience + the collective literature = massive failure for increasing test

sorry


Show me ONE study using a standardized Protodioscin extract that contradicts the Bulgarian studies. JUST ONE.

You can not and WILL NOT find one, because any study that contradicts the Bulgarian studies DID NOT USE A STANDARDIZED EXTRACT.

Case closed homie :D

GeneGnomeX
09-23-2008, 01:46 PM
Tribulus terrestris is a perennial plant, grown predominately in India and Africa. Tribulus is mentioned in ancient Indian Ayurvedic medical texts dating back thousands of years. Tribulus has been widely used in the Ayurvedic system of medicine for the treatment of sexual dysfunction and various urinary disorders. The Greeks used Tribulus Terrestris as a diuretic. In China and Vietnam it has been used in the treatment of post-partum hemorrhage, epistaxis and gastro intestinal bleeding. It is a South African remedy for inflammation and arthritis. In one study, Tribulus terrestris increased spermatogenesis and sexual activity in laboratory animals. Tribulus terrestris appears to raise/turn on natural testosterone production in men via the activation of hormone secretion and estradiol. Clinical studies in Bulgaria have shown Tribulus terrestris to increase the sex hormones LH (luteinizing hormone) level by 72% and the body's own free testosterone level by 41% in healthy adult males in only five days. LH regulates the testosterone production in the testes and high levels of LH coincide with high testosterone levels. Tribulus has become increasingly popular among athletes because it reportedly increases strength and stamina. Studies on Tribulus use are ongoing. The extract contains alkaloids, saponins, resins and nitrates and is popularly used as a sports nutrient in USA. The extract of the plant is recognized as a diuretic and aphrodisiac. It has anti-oxidant and hypolipedemic activities. Tribulus Terrestris extract was effectively used for nonspecific impotence and aging. It has been popularized as a natural remedy to enhance libido and fertility in both men and women.


Among the clinically significant effects of Tribulus terrestris identified in various human and animal studies are:

1.Improves muscle growth & body strength.
2.Reported to enhance libido sexualis & erectile function.
3.Reported to increase the number and motility of spermatozoa.
4. increases LH levels by 72% and testosterone levels by 41% in only five days.
5.Helps in alleviating some symptoms associated with male menopause.
6.Reduction in cholesterol.
7.Reductions in high blood pressure.
8.Inhibition of stress-induced clumping of blood platelets.
9.Increases in strength of contraction of the heart muscle.
10.Reductions in sodium and fluid retention.
11.Anti-urolithiatic (urinary/kidney stone preventing) and litholytic (dissolving) activities.
12.Improvement of the profile of red and white blood cells, including V and T lymphocytes and stimulation of the humoral immune system.
13.Anti-bacterial, anti-malarial and anti-fungal properties,Anti-inflammatory activity.
14.Analgesic effects.
15.No adverse effects.
16.No toxicity and side effects.
Tribulus is an excellent supplement to take at the end of a prohormone cycle to help kick start your own testosterone production again. And it can also be effectively used to increase strength gains and aid in helping you get over a plateau. for optimal results try to find a tribulus supplement that is standardized for 45% saponis.

And with specific regard to sexual function:

In men:increase libido, in potency and strength of erections, in the number and quality of sperm produced, and often, testosterone
In women:increases libido, improved sex hormone profile (increases in estradiol levels), mood and ovulation effects, and reductions in some menopausal symptoms


Here are some quick Tribulus facts:
Tribulus Terresteris is ecologically pure.
Tribulus is a natural aid to help impotence, low libido, and male infertility.
Clinically proven effect vie in enhancing energy and vitality.
Helps build muscle and strength.
Tribulus Terrestris is safe to use and it's not a hormone.

The role of Tribulus Terrestris in Easter European folk medicine for muscle strength and sexual potency led to two decades of formal (though secret) government-sponsored studies at the Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute in Sofia, Bulgaria culminating in the 1980s with a formula for improving physical and sexual performance. The most noted outcome of this research was the success of the Bulgarian weight lifting team which stunned the world in Olympic competition.
Tribulus Terrestris is used in various herbal formulas to treat headaches, eye problems such as itching, conjunctivitis and weak vision, and nervousness. It is also used to treat high blood pressure and rib pain.

Tribulus terrestris has been used in Europe as a treatment for impotence and as a stimulant to help enhance sexual drive and performance. Studies have also shown some evidence that this potent herb raises testosterone levels. It works differently than prohormones, such as Androstenedione and DHEA, because it is a natural stimulant of LH, a luteinizing hormone, which helps sustain your body??s normal testosterone levels. Clinical studies found Tribulus Terrestris increased sperm production and testosterone levels in men. Among women, Tribulus Terrestris was found to increase the concentration of hormones, with testosterone being very slightly influenced, thus improving reproductive function, libido, and ovulation. Tribulus also has a stimulating effect on the liver, helping to convert fats and cholesterol to hormones that results in energy. The increase in testosterone levels promotes a positive nitrogen balance which allows for faster recuperation and recovery from muscular exertion and stress.

Great now the reps are plagiarizing.

INGENIUM
09-23-2008, 01:47 PM
Case closed homie :D

If you are going to formulate products based only on "studies" performed by manufacturers that are not reviewed, indexed, or worth the paper they are printed on (if they even manage to get printed ANYWHERE)...well, good luck homie.

Robboe
09-23-2008, 01:48 PM
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x314/Maxxx1/EpicFailintherain.jpg

~Hades~
09-23-2008, 01:49 PM
I can suspect that a turd in a shoebox will raise my test levels if I stare at it long enough. But without any proof, in the end, its just a turd in a shoebox.

INGENIUM
09-23-2008, 01:49 PM
If you are going to formulate products based only on "studies" performed by manufacturers that are not reviewed, indexed, or worth the paper they are printed on (if they even manage to get printed ANYWHERE)...well, good luck homie.
actually, i think many companies do this...so, who knows it could work :D

TheSupremeBeing
09-23-2008, 01:51 PM
If you are going to formulate products based only on "studies" performed by manufacturers that are not reviewed, indexed, or worth the paper they are printed on (if they even manage to get printed ANYWHERE)...well, good luck homie.

I formulate products BASED ON EXPERIENCE, everything I put into a product I have TRIED SUCCESSFULLY MYSELF.

I used Tribestan and tribex since I was 18 years old, and LJ100 when I was 19.

In addition, Tribulus has been used for YEARS to increase Testosterone, and some of teh MOST EFEFCTIVE and popular supplements contain quality Tribulus extracts.

strength77
09-23-2008, 01:52 PM
He asked about Nutrex ... :rolleyes:



Next time, you could post some real science instead. :rolleyes:

If you don't like the thread, stay out of it, there is no point to neg people for it. If you knew two things about me from my posts you would know i am nothing but honest. I have always supported Trib and not just androgenerator. I am not going to support something i do not like. We all know supplement companies are in the business to make money, that is no secret. But supplement companies have come and gone like dust in the wind. SSE has only a few products. Maybe they weren't represented the best in the past, but there are excellent, patented products in SSE's supps. This is a supplement board okay, what do you expect. The fact is that sure trib may not work for some, just the same as the daily threads about purple wrath or white flood that dont work. There are even threads about m-drol and h-drol not working for people. I am not like every other rep who no matter what turns a post into an opportunity to sell something. I speak the truth and I stand by SSE's prods. I tell it how it is, and yes this is a money making venture and a cut-throat industry, but negging people just because they are "pimping" their products is juvenile and immature. What do you want me to do bash it, when i know it is quality?? I am not going to try to sell someone andro if they are asking about m-drol. A rep is someone who stands by good products and can make recommendations regarding those products. There are a lot of people that BASH SSE, because we/company is misunderstood. Great things are coming from this company. There is a LOT of money being invested right. Hang on to your seats cause some good prods are coming.

Skigazzi
09-23-2008, 01:52 PM
I've read (and I can't find it) that there have been attempts to recreate the trib. study being talked about, and that no one has been able to duplicate the results they (the manufacturer) got (using the same product).

Bloute
09-23-2008, 01:57 PM
.

U mad ? :confused:

Read the rules about pimping and Dr.P's recent post about it.

strength77
09-23-2008, 01:58 PM
U mad ? :confused:

Read the rules about pimping and Dr.P's recent post about it.

Ok i will

thank you

God Bless bro

Elliptical Envy
09-23-2008, 02:03 PM
U mad ? :confused:

Read the rules about pimping and Dr.P's recent post about it.

Dr. P doesn't enforce those giga rules now

Time to pimp giga!

Bloute
09-23-2008, 02:04 PM
Dr. P doesn't enforce those giga rules now

Time to pimp giga!

I can pimp Poutine extract then ! :eek:

Sldge
09-23-2008, 02:05 PM
In addition, Tribulus has been used for YEARS to increase Testosterone.
Actually it hasnt but being completely wrong doesnt seem to stop you from posting this crap over and over. But if youd like to go over it again, I posted plenty of studies for you to review.

Elliptical Envy
09-23-2008, 02:05 PM
I can pimp Poutine extract then ! :eek:

Pimp that **** to hell and back!

~Hades~
09-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Actually it hasnt but being completely wrong doesnt seem to stop you from posting this crap over and over. But if youd like to go over it again, I posted plenty of studies for you to review.

He does not want to read those becasue they make sense.

Bloute
09-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Pimp that **** to hell and back!

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-01/super-frank-poutine.jpg

Swifto
09-23-2008, 02:20 PM
I formulate products BASED ON EXPERIENCE, everything I put into a product I have TRIED SUCCESSFULLY MYSELF.

I used Tribestan and tribex since I was 18 years old, and LJ100 when I was 19.

In addition, Tribulus has been used for YEARS to increase Testosterone, and some of teh MOST EFEFCTIVE and popular supplements contain quality Tribulus extracts.

No you dont.

I've asked you many times to post your BW done on some of the ingredients contained in AndroG and you have ignored me everytime.

Its like talking to a brick wall. Tribulas DOESNT raise endogenous testosterone, nor are there any credible studies in the counturary.

You've been owned on LJ100 lowering SHBG.

Owned on Tribulas raising endogenous T.

Owned on LJ100 raising Free T, GH and IGF whilst lowering cortisol.


You've been owned on every board you've ****ing sponsored!

Sldge
09-23-2008, 02:26 PM
No you dont.

I've asked you many times to post your BW done on some of the ingredients contained in AndroG and you have ignored me everytime.

Its like talking to a brick wall. Tribulas DOESNT raise endogenous testosterone, nor are there any credible studies in the counturary.

You've been owned on LJ100 lowering SHBG.

Owned on Tribulas raising endogenous T.

Owned on LJ100 raising Free T, GH and IGF whilst lowering cortisol.


You've been owned on every board you've ****ing sponsored!

In short you have been:
http://www.funny-games.biz/images/pictures/404-soldier-pee.jpg

jeff3kids
09-23-2008, 02:51 PM
Ive seen blood work from a 6 week Androgenerator PCT, it was an epic failure. It was recommended by Ross to the man for PCT. After about 3 bottles, his total test came back around 150.

Swifto also saw it IIFC.

After a proper PCT, his levels came back to about 400 or so.

Trib for a light libido boost? yes. To raise test levels, not in the real world from what I've actually seen.

TommyTuffGuy
09-23-2008, 02:55 PM
Why!? Are these reps THAT hard up for free product they'd actually consider repping for SSE? You'd have to seriously be brain-dead numb or viewing your computer screen in braille to actually agree or endorse anything that "SUPREMEBEING" has posted.

Viiinceeeeee
07-30-2013, 08:10 PM
Tribulus help me to have more power and drive and when i stop it, i can feel the difference. My wife use it too and she want the i order it too.

This is not as trong as a steroid, but still help to replace the hormonal in place.

JayLS1-327
07-31-2013, 07:57 AM
Tribulus help me to have more power and drive and when i stop it, i can feel the difference. My wife use it too and she want the i order it too.

This is not as trong as a steroid, but still help to replace the hormonal in place.
Well that's all the evidence I need.