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Overbech
08-27-2008, 05:48 PM
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I'm looking for a way to increase my HCL naturally. I was hoping for maybe some foods than can rise it? (hopefully low carb)

SHIFT_Pump
08-27-2008, 06:14 PM
Inject your puke straight into your bloodstream. Your HCl will skyrocket for sure.



















But seriously, I hope that was a typo for HDL cholesterol.

Dr. Horse
08-27-2008, 06:20 PM
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I'm looking for a way to increase my HCL naturally. I was hoping for maybe some foods than can rise it? (hopefully low carb)

HCl is not needed to digest carbs, so you're on the right track. High protein diet will get you the most HCl in your stomach.


But why?

Overbech
08-27-2008, 06:31 PM
HCl is not needed to digest carbs, so you're on the right track. High protein diet will get you the most HCl in your stomach.


But why?

I was reading up on some Charles Poliquin and he talked a lot about stomach acid, and I was hoping for a more natural way to do it than taking vitamins.

Dr. Horse
08-27-2008, 06:35 PM
I was reading up on some Charles Poliquin and he talked a lot about stomach acid, and I was hoping for a more natural way to do it than taking vitamins.

What do you think having more stomach acid will do for you?

Overbech
08-27-2008, 06:45 PM
What do you think having more stomach acid will do for you?

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=947&Itemid=10078

Dr. Horse
08-27-2008, 06:51 PM
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=947&Itemid=10078

Hogwash.

Overbech
08-27-2008, 06:54 PM
Hogwash.

that was a great counter argument, i especially liked your sources

sylkkdaskr
08-27-2008, 07:10 PM
Having more acid in your stomach will not have any benefits, on the contrary it can have negative side effects, such as throwing your entire bodies pH out of balance. If you unnaturaly increase the acidity of your stomach, will just inversley cause your pancreas and liver to release more base. Eventually you will start giving yourself ulcers as well as a plethora of other problems that could lead to a serious problem. That is if your body allows you to take it that far, its pretty good at keeping your "housekeeping" at bay

FunkDaddy
08-27-2008, 07:39 PM
that was a great counter argument, i especially liked your sources

Mr. Horse IS the source, bitch

sylkkdaskr
08-27-2008, 07:48 PM
Mr. Horse IS the source, bitch

i lol'd

labradarep
08-27-2008, 07:52 PM
Take digestive enzymes or try the HCL tablet/capsule route suggested by Poliquin. (You will be quite suprised how it DOES work).

Dr. Horse
08-27-2008, 08:17 PM
that was a great counter argument, i especially liked your sources

Look, it's clear that the author has a poor understanding of even basic digestive physiology. Anyone with a background in human phys/medicine would laugh at the article. It's a junk article written to sell a product. Nothing more.

labradarep
08-27-2008, 10:17 PM
Charles may not be the best "writer/author" but he does understand Human Physiology.

He has a masters in Exercise Physiology as well as numerous other degrees. He speaks 4 or 5 languages, teaches seminars around the world, has been doing research & publishing papers/Books for the past 30 years, all of his work & research is backed by science combined with real world experience. He using blood tests, siliva tests, urine tests, etc.. to back up his research. Trains Professional & Olympic athletes. His Biosignature Modulation research is now being used by the medical profession in numerous feilds to help predict heart disease, diabetes, etc....... No disrespect Mr. Horse... But If I were a betting man & you were pitted against Charles on this site I would put my money on Charles.

Now don't get me wrong, Charles does like to sell products & make $$$. But, he also understands how the body works better than most people (Doctors included) & produces quality , useable products based on that knowledge.

Did you stop to think that maybe he has a deeper & more complex understanding of human physiology than you give him credit for. Thus, the reason for coming up with the HCL tabs/capsules???

Dr. Horse
08-27-2008, 10:26 PM
Charles may not be the best "writer/author" but he does understand Human Physiology

He has a masters in Exercise Physiology as well as numerous other degrees. He speaks 4 or 5 languages, teaches seminars around the world, has been doing research & publishing papers/Books for the past 30 years, all of his work & research is backed by science combined with real world experience. .

Well then, he is betraying his own credentials with pseudoscientific crap like that article.



He using blood tests, siliva tests, urine tests, etc.. to back up his research. Trains Professional & Olympic athletes.

Point me to some evidence that supports this theory- either his own research or otherwise.


No disrespect Mr. Horse... But If I were a betting man & you were pitted against Charles on this site I would put my money on Charles.

Pitted against? You mean like a fight to the death or what? He may know a lot about something, but that doesn't change that fact that he's spewing pseudoscience.


Did you stop to think that maybe he has a deeper & more complex understanding of human physiology than you give him credit for. Thus, the reason for coming up with the HCL tabs/capsules???

Of course I stopped to think about it- I have a curious and scientific mind. And I came to the conclusion that he is a quack (at least judging from the one article). If he has stumbled upon this incredible breakthrough, why is he floundering in obscurity? Prove it works, take the product to the masses, and make a million dollars- this is what usually happens with true breakthroughs.

TheWaffleIron
08-27-2008, 11:52 PM
Mr. Horse IS the source, bitch

http://memeparty.com/i/m/de91a7e09dda73f76225782259d56ee6.jpg

Jules Verne
08-28-2008, 04:10 AM
I came to the conclusion that he is a quack (at least judging from the one article).

If you read more of his stuff, you might be kind enough to downgrade your assessment to 'eccentric'.


But probably not.

Overbech
08-29-2008, 06:21 AM
Take digestive enzymes or try the HCL tablet/capsule route suggested by Poliquin. (You will be quite suprised how it DOES work).

Anymore of Poliquin's readings you suggest? I am already doing the fish oil and I am close to doing this HCL thing

Bioteknik
08-29-2008, 07:32 AM
Anymore of Poliquin's readings you suggest? I am already doing the fish oil and I am close to doing this HCL thing

why does he suggest the fish oil, as this might just be more proof of his "expertise"

labradarep
08-29-2008, 07:36 AM
Anymore of Poliquin's readings you suggest? I am already doing the fish oil and I am close to doing this HCL thing

Charles writes a ton of "Mini" articles. A lot of them are used to help him sell product. But, don't take that in the wrong context. Yes, Charles is all about making money. But, he has very high quality supplements, consults with many of the top research experts & Doctors in all different fields. Therefore you are getting some of the most up to date info & products out there.

What I like about Charles is that he gives you the Coles Notes version of info related to products. Therefore, he does the research & bulk of the reading for you.

Google in his name & look for articles.

Go to www.charlespoliquin.com. You can get some free info from that site or pay to become a member.

Other great resources for supplement/food info include: Will Brink & Alan Aragon.

Enjoy the Journey!

labradarep
08-29-2008, 07:40 AM
why does he suggest the fish oil, as this might just be more proof of his "expertise"

Here are a couple of his articles/suggestions as to why he recommends fish oil:

Top 10 Reasons EFA's are Essential

1. Fish oils, rich in the Omega-3 fatty acids may help prevent depression, stabilize the moods of maniac-depressives, and alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia.
University of California's Johnsson Cancer Center, Los Angeles, CA health.com

2. Fish oils is one of the few substances known to lower concentrations of triglycerides (fatty substances) that pose a cardiovascular risk, in the blood.
J Raloff Science News

3. Increasing the amount of Omega-3 fatty acids has direct effects on serotonin levels.
Andrew Stoll M.D.1999 Archives of General Psychiatry

4. Fish oils, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) help prevent heart disease, depression, and cancer.
Hans R. Larsen, Msc chE ""Fish Oils: The Essential Nutrients"" International Health News

5. Research has shown that supplementation with fish oils can markedly reduce interlukin-1beta production and results in a significant reduction in morning stiffness and the number of painful joints in rheumatoid arthritis patients.
Darlington, L Gail and Stone, Trevor W. Antioxidants and fatty acids in the amelioration of rheumatoid arthritis and related disorders. British Journal of Nutrition, Vol. 85, March 2001, pp.251-69. Oilofpisces.com

6. Several clinical trials have concluded that eating fish regularly or supplementing with fish oils can reduce the risk of sudden cardiac death by as much as 50%.
Bigger,J. Thomas and El-Sherif, Tarek. Polyunsaturated fatty acids and cardiovascular events: a fish tale. Circulation, Vol.103, February 6, 2001, pp623-25 (editorial). Oilofpisces.com

7. Researchers at Mayo Clinic report that supplementation with fish oils, EPA and DHA is highly effective in slowing down the progression of IgA nephropathy, a common kidney disease.
Donadio, James V.,et al. A controlled trial of fish oil in IgA nephropathy. New England Journal of Medicine, Vol 331 November 3, 1994, pp1194-99
Van Ypersele de Strihou, Charles. Fish oil for IgA nephropathy? New England Journal of Medicine, Vol 331, November 3, 1994, pp 1227-29 (editorial). Oilofpisces.com

8. Epidemiological studies have shown that populations with a high intake of fish oils have a lower incidence of inflammatory diseases such as asthma.
Dry J. and Vincent D. Effect of a Fish oil diet on asthma: results of a 1-year double bind study. Int Arch Allerguy Appl Immurol, Vol.95, 1991,pp.156-57. Oilofpisces.com

9. Researchers at The University of Tromso now report that fish oil supplementation lowers blood pressure significantly in people with hypertension and has no effect on glucose control even in people with mid diabetes.
Toft, Ingrid, et al. Effects of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on glucose homeostasis and blood pressure in essential hypertension. Annals of Internal Medicine, Vol 123, No 12, December 15, 1995, pp 911-18. Connor, William E. Diabetes, fish oil, and vascular disease. Annals of Internal Medicine, Vol 123, No 12, December 15, 1995, pp950-52. Oilofpisces.com.

10. Medical researchers in New Zealand provide convincing evidence that an increased consumption of fish oils helps reduce the risk of developing prostate cancer.
Norrish, A,E, et al. Prostate cancer risk and consumption of fish oils: A dietary biomaker-based case-control study. British Journal of Cancer, Vol. 81, No.7, December 1999, pp.1238-42"

Thirteen reasons to use fish oils to get lean

This is an excerpt from coach Poliquin's and Dr. Houston's upcoming book on fat loss.


Serious trainers want to find a supplement that will give them an edge. For those of us interested in positively and optimally altering body composition and maximizing our training efforts, fish oils offer thirteen possible advantages:

1. Cell membrane health: Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), ensure that cell membranes remain healthy. The membranes are flexible and contain larger numbers of insulin receptors that are more receptive and responsive to circulating insulin. This results in decreased fat storage in the adipocytes (fat cells)

2. Fish oils turn on the lipolytic genes (fat burning genes)

3. Fish oils turn off the lipogenic genes (fat storage genes),

4.Fish oils diminish C-reactive proteins, a newly identified risk factor associated with various inflammatory diseases, including atherosclerosis, angina, coronary heart disease, heart attack, stroke, congestive heart failure and diabetes. The DHA fraction of the fish oil seems to be the one most responsible for that protective effect. DHA also has best ability to reduce blood pressure.

5. Increase utilization of fat stores from the adipocytes.

6. Preferential utilization for energy production once stored in the adipocytes.

7. Reduced inflammation from physical training.

8. Pain management from the reduced inflammation.

9. EPA regulates blood supply to the brain that is essential in maintaining focus in weight training sessions. DHA is important in brain membranes, memory and cognitive function.

10. Fish oils increase serotonin levels (the happy neurotransmitter). Therefore, fish oils will decrease incidence of depression, anxiety, panic attack and reduce carbohydrate cravings.

11. Fish oils will improve your cardio-vascular risk profile by lowering VLDL, triglycerides, homocysteine, fibrinogen and increasing HDL levels. Combining fish oils with plant sterols will improve lipid levels even more than either alone.

12. Fish oils can also decrease blood pressure by several mechanisms.
These include increases in the vasodilatory compound, nitric oxide, reducing vascular inflammation, blocking the constrictive elements in the vascular wall such as the calcium channels reducing blood viscosity, and inhibiting a blood vessel constrictor (thromboxane). Lipoprotein (a) is another CVD predictor that can be lowered by fish oils (a 19% reduction was seen with natural, stable fish oils and just 4% with a highly purified fish oil).

13. Fish oils are a great stress fighter. Supplementation with n-3 fatty acids inhibits the adrenal activation of steroids, aldosterone, epinephrine and norepinephrine (catecholamines) elicited by a mental stress, apparently through effects exerted at the level of the central nervous system.
Therefore, for the same amount of stress, one will produce fewer stress hormones if consuming fish oils on a regular basis.

Any of these reasons make the case for fish oils in your supplementary diet. Take some today!

in10city
08-29-2008, 07:46 AM
why does he suggest the fish oil, as this might just be more proof of his "expertise"
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/75353-gr-easy-ejl.html

I would not recommend it for the vast majority for these reasons -> http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=201845251&postcount=10

Bioteknik
08-29-2008, 07:50 AM
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/75353-gr-easy-ejl.html

I would not recommend it for the vast majority for these reasons -> http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=201845251&postcount=10

I had recently read Alan's piece on fish oil, so that was a reason I asked.

I'll get it from occasional fish consumption, as I do eat a few servings a week already.

labradarep
08-29-2008, 08:02 AM
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/75353-gr-easy-ejl.html

I would not recommend it for the vast majority for these reasons -> http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=201845251&postcount=10

Always great to see "Other" info on some of the possible Negatives of a supplement.

People have to remember that it is easy to forget about the "other" effects of a supplement/food stuff because of all the beneficial aspects. Very important to get all the info. Then make an informed decision.

labradarep
08-29-2008, 08:04 AM
BTW, how did this go from HCL to Fish Oil?

We sure get off topic quickly??LOL

Bioteknik
08-29-2008, 08:08 AM
I think this happens in all messageboards.. one tangent gets posted and *Blam!* threadjack.

bryce126
08-29-2008, 08:56 AM
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I'm looking for a way to increase my HCL naturally. I was hoping for maybe some foods than can rise it? (hopefully low carb)

actually overbech, I would start by getting your levels tested. It may be that you have too much, or not enough, but you don't know until you get a test.

If the case is that you have too much, antacids are a good choice.
If the case is that you don't have enough, betaine HCL is a great dietary supplement that's perfect. You may also consider other digestive aids like digestive enzymes, a proper probiotic, and food for the healthy bacteria, namely FOS (fructoligosaccharides)

labradarep
08-29-2008, 10:31 AM
actually overbech, I would start by getting your levels tested. It may be that you have too much, or not enough, but you don't know until you get a test.

If the case is that you have too much, antacids are a good choice.
If the case is that you don't have enough, betaine HCL is a great dietary supplement that's perfect. You may also consider other digestive aids like digestive enzymes, a proper probiotic, and food for the healthy bacteria, namely FOS (fructoligosaccharides)

I agree with everything except the antacids.

Why would you want to block HCL. You are setting yourself up to not fully digest the foods you are consuming. This leads to fermentation(sugars) & putrification(protein) of food in the gut.

A better idea would be to stay away from foods that cause indigestion or pound back the digestive enzymes.

Antacids very occasionally if needed IMO.

alan aragon
08-29-2008, 01:57 PM
Fish oil has a number of health benefits, BUT fish oil megadosing is a dumb idea because 1) Getting more than you need raises the unsaturation index of your red blood cells, which is fine to a point, but an overabundance of double bonds increases the opportunity for lipid peroxidation, and 2) It can compromise immunity in some populations, and 3) There's no compelling evidence that fish oil is a magic aid for improving body composition. As a matter of fact, the research in this area is incredibly inconsistent & iffy at best.

As for HCL supplementation, well... That's just about as brotastic as fish oil megadosing. I don't really care what Poliquin has accomplished, people in all fields can successfully BS their way to the upper echelons. When a claim is made, and the evidence is insufficient, all you have left is a neat pile of bull****.

labradarep
08-29-2008, 03:17 PM
Fish oil has a number of health benefits, BUT fish oil megadosing is a dumb idea because 1) Getting more than you need raises the unsaturation index of your red blood cells, which is fine to a point, but an overabundance of double bonds increases the opportunity for lipid peroxidation, and 2) It can compromise immunity in some populations, and 3) There's no compelling evidence that fish oil is a magic aid for improving body composition. As a matter of fact, the research in this area is incredibly inconsistent & iffy at best.

As for HCL supplementation, well... That's just about as brotastic as fish oil megadosing. I don't really care what Poliquin has accomplished, people in all fields can successfully BS their way to the upper echelons. When a claim is made, and the evidence is insufficient, all you have left is a neat pile of bull****.

Alan, I am curious as to why HCL supplementation does not work? ( Not trying to be a smarta$%. Genuinely interested?)

Dr. Horse
08-29-2008, 03:40 PM
Alan, I am curious as to why HCL supplementation does not work? ( Not trying to be a smarta$%. Genuinely interested?)

I'm sorry, the burden of proof lies with those making extraordinary claims.

labradarep
08-29-2008, 07:55 PM
I'm sorry, the burden of proof lies with those making extraordinary claims.

Mr Horse I did not make the extraordinary claim. I did try the HCL route on myself. I had a stretch where my appetite was almost non existent. I followed the process described by Poliquin & it quickly took care of my lack of appetite. I will admit that it may have been the HCL or just a coincidence. But, everything stayed the same in my daily routine except for the addition of the HCL. So I do speak from personal experience. Will it work for everyone? Probably not. But, sometimes simple things are worth a shot IMO.

If you noticed I also wrote in the thread that it was prudent to get other information from other sources as to make an informed decision. (Alan's name was also mentioned). Alan was kind enough to add some interesting & helpful insite into the discussion.

If you knew the reason why you thought HCL supplementation would not work why didn't you take a few minutes to post your reasons earlier in the thread? Most of us are here to learn. Me included.

labradarep
08-29-2008, 09:41 PM
I'm sorry, the burden of proof lies with those making extraordinary claims.

BTW what is wrong with asking someone of Alan's experience & educational background a legit question?