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SYRIANKID
08-26-2008, 09:40 PM
The Prophet (pbuh) said:

The hairs in your nose protect you from disease

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec19/ch217/ch217c.html

http://www.microbiologytext.com/index.php?module=Book&func=displayarticle&art_id=384

It may seem like common knowledge to us today, but the idea of airborne pathogens was not established hundreds of years ago.

Organichu
08-26-2008, 09:42 PM
Where was this stated?

SYRIANKID
08-26-2008, 09:45 PM
Where was this stated?

It's in Imam Al Suyuti's hadith compendium, Al Jami' al Kabeer. I'm reading through that this summer and picking out some very interesting tidbits.

Wussy
08-26-2008, 09:47 PM
the chinese used crodile crap as a contraseptive centuries ago. And they were right is it a spermocide.

thats far more impressive then the nose thing. I mean that someone could guess.

Too bad its not in a holy book. You could run wild with it and use it to further convice yourself how right that book is. :P.

SYRIANKID
08-26-2008, 09:51 PM
the chinese used crodile crap as a contraseptive centuries ago. And they were right is it a spermocide.

thats far more impressive then the nose thing. I mean that someone could guess.

Too bad its not in a holy book. You could run wild with it and use it to further convice yourself how right that book is. :P.

From the Islamic perpsective, it is from a holy book, since it's a Prophetic statement.

TranceNRG
08-26-2008, 10:04 PM
The Prophet (pbuh) said:

The hairs in your nose protect you from disease

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec19/ch217/ch217c.html

http://www.microbiologytext.com/index.php?module=Book&func=displayarticle&art_id=384

It may seem like common knowledge to us today, but the idea of airborne pathogens was not established hundreds of years ago.


Very interesting hadith.

You may find the following book quite interesting as well.

http://www.al-khoei.org/catalog/images/148.jpg

One will find in this book a wide variety of remedies, both material and spiritual, for a range of ailments to which the body and soul are subject in this world. There is much wisdom contained in this useful aid to practical everyday life.

Dig
08-26-2008, 10:44 PM
the chinese used crodile crap as a contraseptive centuries ago. And they were right is it a spermocide.

thats far more impressive then the nose thing. I mean that someone could guess.

Too bad its not in a holy book. You could run wild with it and use it to further convice yourself how right that book is. :P.

Wow, that must have been quite an experience.

k4y
08-26-2008, 10:51 PM
From the Islamic perpsective, it is from a holy book, since it's a Prophetic statement.

No... he meant that too bad the Chinese contraceptive wasn't from a holy book. Get it?

Wussy
08-26-2008, 11:33 PM
Wow, that must have been quite an experience.

Yeah. I'm not sure on the details of how they used it.

daviess
08-27-2008, 09:23 AM
why the fuk is this in the religous politics thread?

Maestro
08-27-2008, 09:36 AM
wppjYDj9JUc

Dig
08-27-2008, 09:53 AM
why the fuk is this in the religous politics thread?

Because it has to do with a quote from the Qur'an?

illriginalized
08-27-2008, 10:38 AM
The Prophet (pbuh) said:

The hairs in your nose protect you from disease

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec19/ch217/ch217c.html

http://www.microbiologytext.com/index.php?module=Book&func=displayarticle&art_id=384

It may seem like common knowledge to us today, but the idea of airborne pathogens was not established hundreds of years ago.

More proof Islam is the true word of God :)


why the fuk is this in the religous politics thread?


Hm... because it belongs here?


Very interesting hadith.

You may find the following book quite interesting as well.

http://www.al-khoei.org/catalog/images/148.jpg

One will find in this book a wide variety of remedies, both material and spiritual, for a range of ailments to which the body and soul are subject in this world. There is much wisdom contained in this useful aid to practical everyday life.

Wonder if Barnes & Noble has this book. I'll call during lunch and see if they have it in stock. If not, I'll order it online.

Thanks for the small recommendation TranceNRG!

SYRIANKID
08-27-2008, 08:21 PM
Can you imagine how difficult it would be to explain to people 1400 years ago, prior to the scientific method and prior to scientific instruments, what we know today to be true?

Imagine explaining to ancient people the purpose of nose hair. You might expect the following replies:

"You are crazy!"

"All disease is caused by an imbalance of the four humours! Everyone knows that!"

"Religion is holding back intellect and science!"

"Prove it! Show us! We can't see the things you are describing!"

~Serpent~
08-27-2008, 09:56 PM
This kind of knowledge existed amonst Hindus and Egyptians millenia(s) prior, which would make me guess that the prophet learned these hygene tips from the pagans he was intent on overtaking. We can't forget that through conquest, Islam adopted, sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally, the knowledge and traditions of their defeated, and called it their own.

The role of nose hair and breathing through the nose is basic yogic knowledge :)

George Carlinian
08-27-2008, 10:31 PM
It's sad that as advanced as we are today, we still consider Europeans the most advanced societies in many aspects, when it has only been so imperically (with the size of their empires, relatively speaking).
Militarily, the accomplishments in military, science, culture, arts, philosophy, and many other things were much more advanced, especially considering what they had to work with, than even today.
The burning of Memphis (library), the science of the Persians and Egyptians, so much from ancient civilizations. We still look at things Mayans, Ethiopians, and the Chinese did and wonder 'how'. its hard to imagine gun powder in China, circuit boards in the Sinai, and so much more. Its hard because we live in today, and ONLY that which was recorded, and those recordings that survived, is all we can acknowledge of the old world our current world was founded on.

TranceNRG
08-27-2008, 10:33 PM
Wonder if Barnes & Noble has this book. I'll call during lunch and see if they have it in stock. If not, I'll order it online.

Thanks for the small recommendation TranceNRG!

No problem...
Definitely look into it, as it presents a combination of physical and spiritual treatments for various illnesses. All the treatments are based on traditions from the prophet and his ahlul bayt [pbut].
For example, to treat illness/condition X, you must eat Y and recite the Z prayer/supplication.



INTRODUCTION

They were physicians of the soul and the body, and Muslims would consult them for their physical illnesses as they would for curing their spiritual sicknesses. This collection of Hadith is ample evidence of that. The Imams, peace be upon them, were not merely conveyors of religious regulations and legislation, but were leaders committed to caring for the Muslims, equally concerned - if such a term is correct - with the health of their bodies and their beliefs, such that they encouraged the learning of medicine (al-.tibb). In his comprehensive statement on the divisions of knowledge, 'Ali b. Abi Talib (d. 40/661) Amir al-Mu'minin, peace be upon him, combined it [medicine] with the knowledge of jurisprudence (al-fiqh), saying: 'There are four kinds of knowledge: jurisprudence for religions, medicine for bodies, grammar for languages, and [study of] the stars to recognize the seasons. Much has been related from the Imams in collections [of Hadith] on medicine and preserving good health, just as there are more descriptions of various remedies related from them. Here for the reader are a small number of their sayings which are general rules for preserving health and physical well-being.


Amir al-Mu'minin said to his son, al-Hasan [b. Ali b. Abu Talib (d. 49/669)], peace be upon him: "Shall I teach you four general principles so that you may have no need of medicine?'
Al-Hasan replied: 'Yes indeed, Amir al-Mu'minin.'
He said: 'Do not eat unless you are hungry, cease eating while you still have a desire to eat, chew your food well, and, after you awaken from sleep, relieve yourself. If you practice these measures, you will not require medicine,"
Amir al-Mu'minin Imam Ali, peace be upon him, also said: "The Qur'an contains a verse which sums up all medicine: 'Eat and drink but do not be prodigal.' (Quran 7:31)

Zarr b. Hubaysh said that 'Amir al-Mu'minin related four statements on medicine which, had they been uttered by Galen and Hippocrates, a hundred pieces of paper would have been decorated with their words. These were: "'Guard against the cold (al-bard) at its onset, and face it at its end, for its effect on the body (al-badan) is similar to its effect on trees. Its onset withers them and its end causes them to leaf."

He also said: 'There is no healthiness with gluttony.'

Al-Baqir [the fifth Imam, Abu Jafar Muhammad b. Ali (d.117/73 5)], peace be upon him, said: 'The medicine of the Arabs is of seven kinds: cupping (al-hujjama), administering clysters (al-ltuqna), steam baths (al-hammam), inhaling medications through the nose (al-suut), vomiting (al-qay), taking honey (al-asal), and, the final remedy, cauterization (al-kayy). Sometimes, added to that is [the application of] lime (al-nura)."

Al-Sadiq [the sixth Imam, Abu Abd Allah Jafar b. Muhammad (d. 148/765)], peace be upon him, said: "If people eat moderately, their bodies will be healthy. '

He also said: 'Three things make a person fat, and three things make him lean. As for those that make one fat, they are an excess of steam baths, smelling sweet scents, and wearing soft [i.e. fine] clothes. Those that make one lean are the excessive eating of eggs (al-bayl), diarrhea (al-ishal), and filling the belly (al-butn) with food."

Abu Haffan-Yuhanna b. Masawayh, the well known Christian physician-related that Jafar b. Muhammad, peace be upon him, had said: "The natural constituents (al-taba'i) [of the body] are four: blood (al-dam), which is the slave - and sometimes the slave kills the master; wind (al-rih), which is the enemy- if one door is closed to him he comes to you from another; phlegm (al-balgham), which is the king, and endeavors to deceive; and bile (al-mirra), which is the earth when it shakes, it shakes those on it."

Ibn Masawayh [also] said: "Ali drew upon what Galen felt to give this description."

Al-Sadiq, peace be upon him, said: "Walking causes the patient to suffer a relapse. When my father [i.e. al-Baqir] fell ill, he was dressed and carried to fulfill his need, that is, to perform the ablution (al-wudu'). He would say: "Walking causes the patient to suffer a relapse. "

Al-Kazim [the seventh Imam, Abu al-Hasan Musa b. Jafar (d. 183/799)], peace be upon him, said: "Stay away from the treatment of physicians (al-atibba) as long as you are well, for it is similar to building - a little of it leads to much."

He also said: "Abstaining from certain foods (al-lahmiyya) is the chief medication. The abdomen (al-maida) is the house of illness. Accustom [the body] to what you are used to."

Abul-Hasan, peace be upon him, said: "There is no medication which does not stir up an illness, and there is nothing more beneficial for the body than withholding from it all except what it requires."

Imam Reza [the eighth Imam, Abu al-Hasan Ali b. Musa (d.203/818)], peace be upon him, said: "Had the dead person been massaged, he would have lived. Why did you disclaim that?"

They, peace be upon them, said: "Avoid medications as long as your body can bear the illness. When it cannot bear the illness, then take medications."

These are some of the things mentioned by the Imams, peace be upon them, regarding medical treatment, and they summarize the general principles and fundamentals of preserving health. Cautioning against gluttony is the basis of treatment, moderation in eating according to the needs and soundness of the body, the requirement for rest and calm after suffering from an illness, abstaining from certain foods, accustoming the body to routine, cautioning against using medications without need and more than is necessary, explaining the natural constituents and elements of the body and, in fact, even pointing to artificial respiration, etc., is all general medical advice and does not apply to a particular individual or country, or to a particular era.

The medical treatments related from the Imams in this book of ours, and others, contain medical preparations and prescriptions of specific proportions and particular qualities. They sometimes deal with particular cases, observation of the condition of the patient, the climate (al-taqs) of his province and the soil (al-turba) of the place where he lives. The answer of one of the Imams in reply to the patient's question, and the medication, may have been given after considering the above-mentioned points. This is a matter which should be taken into account, since variations in the climate and seasons of different countries require specific treatments for certain patients.

For example, it would not be correct to use a medical treatment of the same proportion and quality for a hot country as for a cold country, and vice versa. That, then, may have been the reason for the variations in some medical prescriptions, or in the ones whose significance is not known. Our distinguished ancient and modern scholars have mentioned that.
Here are some of their statements on the subject for the reader:

It is narrated that the two al-Sadiqs [the Imams Ja'far al-Sadiq and Musa al-Kazim], peace be upon them, explained the statement of Amir al-Mu'minin, peace be upon him, that 'The abdomen is the house of illness, abstaining from certain foods is the chief medication, and each body is accustomed to its conditioning' [as meaning that] 'something which may be beneficial for an illness which affects certain people in one region may kill others in the same region who use it for that some illness. What is suitable for people with one habit is not suitable for those whose habits differ, etc."

SYRIANKID
08-27-2008, 11:02 PM
There is a similar and famous book called "Prophetic Medicine" based on the other advice that the Prophet (pbuh) gave regarding health, written by a famous Syrian Classical scholar of the past named "Ibn Qayyim al Jawziah":

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31T445YCKML._SS500_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Prophetic-Medicine-Al-Tib-Nabiwi/dp/2745128752/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219903265&sr=8-1

MiKey4
08-28-2008, 01:10 AM
From the Islamic perpsective, it is from a holy book, since it's a Prophetic statement.

I think he was talking about the crocodile thing being put in a book.

R0ck_S0lid
08-28-2008, 03:05 AM
So ur prophet went to med school....Big Deal!!

Chook Legs
08-28-2008, 06:15 AM
Go work in a dusty area then blow your nose. You will blow out dirt which has accumulated and become visible. It can be associated with dirt /grime /disease. You dont need to be a genius to figure this out.

George Carlinian
08-28-2008, 09:00 AM
So ur prophet went to med school....Big Deal!!

pfft...that's nothing. Ours came back after 3 days of death!

drpurple
08-28-2008, 09:17 AM
oh my me.

ancient peoples werent actually as retarded as we might think. its not prophetic to state that disease is caused by airborne pathogens, especially when one considers the threat to helath witnessed when a dead body begins to decompsoe and starts to smell. it wouldnt be too long before someone figured out "bad smell = illness = bad air is bad"

it would have been more prophetic i think, if hed have stated a cure for the common cold.

SYRIANKID
08-28-2008, 09:32 AM
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/louis_pasteur.htm

Was it Pasteur who first proved that disease could be spread by airborne pathogens?

drpurple
08-28-2008, 09:35 AM
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/louis_pasteur.htm

Was it Pasteur who first proved that disease could be spread by airborne pathogens?

first to scientifically prove it, yes, but people were wearinf facemasks in times of plague LONG before then.

during the black death, many people used to wear long beaked facemasks filled with fragrant spices to help combat the spread of the foul air into their lungs. nothing scientific about that, just common sense.

illriginalized
08-28-2008, 10:23 AM
first to scientifically prove it, yes, but people were wearinf facemasks in times of plague LONG before then.

during the black death, many people used to wear long beaked facemasks filled with fragrant spices to help combat the spread of the foul air into their lungs. nothing scientific about that, just common sense.

This can't be a serious post. How does the fragrance of spices prevent them from dying? Either way smell or no smell... they were still gonna die. So sure they were intelligent in trying prevent the "smell" of horrible air but nothing else... nothing scientific.

drpurple
08-28-2008, 10:46 AM
This can't be a serious post. How does the fragrance of spices prevent them from dying? Either way smell or no smell... they were still gonna die. So sure they were intelligent in trying prevent the "smell" of horrible air but nothing else... nothing scientific.

go read a history book. they used to do it. and it was the apothecaries of the times that used to do it. they believd that fresh air was good, foul air was bad. it kinda worked too, but by accident; the amount of spices and stuff that covered the mouth worked as an air filter. it wasnt long after that, that people in general figured out it was something in the air that caused illness, not the workj of the devil.

people have known bad air is bad for bloody ages. literally ages.

illriginalized
08-28-2008, 11:02 AM
lol I do read history books, homie. Preferably from other countries this way the book is NOT filled with lies, defamation, and misinformation. The problem you have is that your misinforming people. You're takling about the Great Plague of London in 1664-1666. Not the Black death.. Anyways, I'm not gonna bother with this conversation -.-



“The strange, bird-like figure stepped out of the gloom and walked down the dark alleyway. Wearing a beak-like mask filled with aromatic herbs to disguise the stench that hung in the air, the apothecary looked like a monstrous raven. As he shone the dim light of his lantern into the shadows he saw doorways daubed with blood-red crosses, the sign that the street had been visited by one of the deadliest diseases known to man: the plague.”

Tech_N9ne
08-28-2008, 11:11 AM
the chinese used crodile crap as a contraseptive centuries ago. And they were right is it a spermocide.

thats far more impressive then the nose thing. I mean that someone could guess.

Too bad its not in a holy book. You could run wild with it and use it to further convice yourself how right that book is. :P.
lol, of course someone now could've guessed that. Did you even read the post?
"It may seem like common knowledge to us today, but the idea of airborne pathogens was not established hundreds of years ago."

SYRIANKID
08-28-2008, 11:13 AM
circuit boards in the Sinai

Circuit boards?

illriginalized
08-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Circuit boards?

It was Islamic scientists who predicted the computer chip :p
I forgot where the heck I read it.. but a few years after, when I discovered an artist by the name of Vinnie Paz (from Jedi Mind Tricks) he said the same exact line in one of his songs.. It was in a book that a friend of mine (he was Lebanese) owned and I was like... how did they predict computer chips?! He didn't have an answer -.-

SYRIANKID
08-28-2008, 12:10 PM
It was Islamic scientists who predicted the computer chip :p
I forgot where the heck I read it.. but a few years after, when I discovered an artist by the name of Vinnie Paz (from Jedi Mind Tricks) he said the same exact line in one of his songs.. It was in a book that a friend of mine (he was Lebanese) owned and I was like... how did they predict computer chips?! He didn't have an answer -.-

As cool as that is, I think the actual invention and mass production of computer chips is far more impressive than merely predicting them. Islamic scientists have a lot of catching up to do.

Lion of Zion
08-28-2008, 12:13 PM
The Prophet (pbuh) said:

The hairs in your nose protect you from disease

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec19/ch217/ch217c.html

http://www.microbiologytext.com/index.php?module=Book&func=displayarticle&art_id=384

It may seem like common knowledge to us today, but the idea of airborne pathogens was not established hundreds of years ago.

Didn't Muhammad also say that Satan lives in your nose?

SYRIANKID
08-28-2008, 12:17 PM
Didn't Muhammad also say that Satan lives in your nose?

Lives? No, but we do believe that demons can enter a person through their nose, ear, mouth, and even flow in the blood stream, which are all ways a person can be possessed.

Lion of Zion
08-28-2008, 12:26 PM
Lives? No, but we do believe that demons can enter a person through their nose, ear, mouth, and even flow in the blood stream, which are all ways a person can be possessed.

Muhammad didn't say that Satan lives in the nose over night?

Dave22reborn
08-28-2008, 03:51 PM
WTF???
'Three things make a person fat, and three things make him lean. As for those that make one fat, they are an excess of steam baths, smelling sweet scents, and wearing soft [i.e. fine] clothes. Those that make one lean are the excessive eating of eggs (al-bayl), diarrhea (al-ishal), and filling the belly (al-butn) with food."

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 04:03 PM
WTF???
'Three things make a person fat, and three things make him lean. As for those that make one fat, they are an excess of steam baths, smelling sweet scents, and wearing soft [i.e. fine] clothes. Those that make one lean are the excessive eating of eggs (al-bayl), diarrhea (al-ishal), and filling the belly (al-butn) with food."

???

Which part of this hadith are you more curious about?

Dave22reborn
08-28-2008, 04:10 PM
???

Which part of this hadith are you more curious about?

The whole quote doesn't make sense.

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 04:26 PM
The whole quote doesn't make sense.

3 causes of gaining fat
1) excessive steam bath
2) smelling sweet scents
3) wearing soft/fine clothes

3 cause of getting lean
1) eating eggs
2) diarrhea
3) filling up abs (you "fill up" muscles by exercising them)

KhanPaulsen
08-28-2008, 04:30 PM
3 causes of gaining fat
1) excessive steam bath
2) smelling sweet scents
3) wearing soft/fine clothes

3 cause of getting lean
1) eating eggs
2) diarrhea
3) filling up abs (you "fill up" muscles by exercising them)

How on Earth does smelling sweet things, and wearing soft/fine clothes make one fat?!

Dave22reborn
08-28-2008, 04:31 PM
3 causes of gaining fat
1) excessive steam bath
2) smelling sweet scents
3) wearing soft/fine clothes

3 cause of getting lean
1) eating eggs
2) diarrhea
3) filling up abs (you "fill up" muscles by exercising them)

Steam baths aren't going to make you fat, cologne isn't going to make you fat, wearing nice clothes isn't going to make you fat.

Eating eggs???? That's debatable.
Diarrhea is a sign of being unhealthy.

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 05:16 PM
Eat Eggs for Weight Loss (http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/weight_loss/weight_loss_tips/eat_eggs.htm)


According to new research from the Rochester Centre for Obesity in America, eating eggs for breakfast could help to limit your calorie intake throughout the rest of the day, by more than 400 calories.

How eating two eggs for breakfast can help you lose weight (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-452282/How-eating-eggs-breakfast-help-lose-weight.html)



03 May 2007

Scientists have shown that those who start their day with poached, boiled or scrambled eggs can lose up to two-thirds more weight than others.


Eating Eggs Helps Adults Lose More Weight (http://www.emaxhealth.com/69/11531.html)


This study confirms previous findings, published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, that when people ate eggs for breakfast they felt more satisfied and consumed fewer calories throughout the day as compared to when they had a bagel breakfast.

R0ck_S0lid
08-28-2008, 05:20 PM
Lives? No, but we do believe that demons can enter a person through their nose, ear, mouth, and even flow in the blood stream, which are all ways a person can be possessed.

LOOOOOL man u r retarded.

KhanPaulsen
08-28-2008, 05:23 PM
<snip>

Please skip to the sweet smells/clothes ones.

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 05:24 PM
The link between diarrhea and losing weight is clear, so I doubt I need to go over it again. Similarly, the link between exercising (in this case abs) and losing weight is known as well.

So, now let's move on to the more interesting ones...

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 05:25 PM
Please skip to the sweet smells/clothes ones.

:D Yes sir...

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 05:44 PM
Smell and Weight Loss: The Science (http://www.aromapatch.org/aroma.htm)


In scientific research, people preferred sweet smells, and strongly sweet scents such as chocolate often triggered feelings of hunger and led to overeating or binge eating

Geriatric nutrition: the role of taste and smell in appetite (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6928191)


Taste and smell are essential to proper nutrition. In the elderly the peripheral sensory receptors decline, causing the appetite to wane. Taste and aroma are inextricably intertwined in determining the palatability and acceptance of food.

The Role of Specific Olfactory Stimulation in Appetite Suppression and Weight Loss (http://www.springerlink.com/content/q3g8487028677401/)


Our study conclusively proves in a randomized, controlled, double-blind fashion that the inhalation of specially formulated scents are effective in appetite reduction, squelching food cravings and weight loss without any conscious dieting or exercising.

Different scents affect the appetite differently.

Olfactory conditioning facilitates diet transition in human infants (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/73505103/abstract)


During a 3-day olfactory conditioning period, parents placed a small scented disk, the conditioned stimulus, on the rim of their infants' formula bottle at every feeding. Following this training, infants' responses to water were tested when their water bottles had a disk scented with the training odor, a novel odor, or no odor. Infants tested with the training odor sucked more frequently and consumed significantly more water than they had at baseline. Infants tested with no odor or a novel odor consumed water at or below baseline levels. These data demonstrate that olfactory conditioning can be used to enhance ingestion in infants and suggest that such methods may be useful for infants experiencing difficulty when making transitions from one diet to another.

Olfactory stimulation with scent of lavender oil affects autonomic nerves, lipolysis and appetite in rats (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T0G-4G3CX2R-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=39cfe3f560e0c0989af681fa180a2767)


Thus, scent of lavender oil and its active component, linalool, affect autonomic nerves, suppress lipolysis through a histaminergic response, and enhance appetite and body weight.

Fischer__35
08-28-2008, 06:45 PM
I'm pretty sure, when I was like four years old, thats what I guessed nose hairs did...And I didnt even watch The Magic School Bus

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 07:04 PM
Clothing Selection Behavior of the Aged Women for Thermal Comfort (http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/199919/000019991999A0527413.php)


It was concluded that clothing selection behavior would modify the intrinsic thermoregulatory responses of the aged women to the cold stress in the summer.

The Interaction of Clothing and Thermoregulation (http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/hu/groups/EEC/publications/Clothing%20and%20Thermoregulation.pdf)


metabolic rate and clothing

Clothing, apart from its effect on heat exchange, also affects metabolic rate. The weight of the clothing adds to body weight (for some protective clothing this is above 15 kg) and as it is carried results in an increase in metabolic rate in activities as walking. The weight distribution over the body becomes important in more elaborate clothing ensembles as e.g. chemical protective or NBC protective clothing. Weight on the torso or head is carried quite efficiently, but weight on hands and feet (e.g. boots) has a much higher impact per unit of mass. For the feet this can be over 5 times more per kg than on the torso. In such ensembles, also the stiffness plays a role and overcoming this stiffness in order to move leads to an additional increase in work effort and metabolic rate.

Dave22reborn
08-28-2008, 07:51 PM
How are steam baths going to make you fat???
And I already stated, having the squirts isn't a good thing.

SYRIANKID
08-28-2008, 08:02 PM
Muhammad didn't say that Satan lives in the nose over night?

No he didn't say lives, he said enters, just as he also said Satan enters the bloodstream as well. Perhaps you read an english translation that said otherwise, but it's not accurate.

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 10:25 PM
How are steam baths going to make you fat???
And I already stated, having the squirts isn't a good thing.

Acute Effects of Exercise or Sauna on Appetite in Obese and Nonobese Men (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T0P-3TT65VG-4D&_user=1022551&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=1022551&md5=f4f4c23aa2bb53fceb65ffb9a10305a4)


We conclude that exercise induced a short-term reduction in hunger and energy intake, whereas exercise and sauna induced a short-term increase in taste perception of sweet at the lower concentration, while macronutrient preference of carbohydrate increased.

If we think about it, eexrcise and sauna both result in dehydration and hyperthermia. After both the body requires water and sweets. However, in case of sauna (or steam bath) body does not exercise, hence the intake of the carbohydrates and sweets leads to gaining weight.

Increased glucagon secretion during hyperthermia in a sauna (http://www.springerlink.com/content/u40754t3423567r4/)


Since a concomitant moderate increase in plasma catecholamine levels was also present, the adrenergic stimulus is believed to trigger glucagon release during hyperthermia. Diminished visceral blood flow, known to occur in sauna baths, may cause a decrease in the degradation of plasma glucagon and thus contribute to the elevated plasma glucagon levels.

KhanPaulsen
08-28-2008, 11:24 PM
Clothing Selection Behavior of the Aged Women for Thermal Comfort (http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/199919/000019991999A0527413.php)

Not relevant to the argument.



The Interaction of Clothing and Thermoregulation (http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/hu/groups/EEC/publications/Clothing%20and%20Thermoregulation.pdf)

I could just as well argue that the increased metabolic demand over prolonged hours will result in an excessive release of cortisol, a muscle relaxing/fat storing hormone. At the very minimum, unless one wears ever-heavier clothing the body will adapt to the stimulus, it certainly won't result in them staving off fat storage. I could very easily take this to the extreme that you are arguing that being naked results in getting fatter!

Aside from that, wearing light clothing doesn't make one fat, it isn't even a real correlation, and certainly isn't a causation. The body seeks to maintain homeostasis, and the dietary intake is ultimately the main culprit via its influence on hormone levels, in addition to a person's a physical activity.

I don't think it is even arguable that there is a clear and concise correlation between just wearing light/soft clothing and being fat, but ultimately it has no impact on the primary factor - diet.

Zarf
08-28-2008, 11:51 PM
So ur prophet went to med school....Big Deal!!

If he did, he failed and was forced to find another job.


When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things which nobody knows except a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle" Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said, "The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah." 'Abdullah bin Salam further said, "O Allah's Apostle! The Jews are liars, and if they should come to know about my conversion to Islam before you ask them (about me), they would tell a lie about me." The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and 'Abdullah went inside the house. Allah's Apostle asked (the Jews), "What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam amongst you?" They replied, "He is the most learned person amongst us, and the best amongst us, and the son of the best amongst us." Allah's Apostle said, "What do you think if he embraces Islam (will you do as he does)?" The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him.

TranceNRG
08-28-2008, 11:52 PM
Not relevant to the argument.

The relevency is the quoted part.

"It was concluded that clothing selection behavior would modify the intrinsic thermoregulatory responses..."

In other words, what you wear modifies your inside...



I could just as well argue that the increased metabolic demand over prolonged hours will result in an excessive release of cortisol, a muscle relaxing/fat storing hormone. At the very minimum, unless one wears ever-heavier clothing the body will adapt to the stimulus, it certainly won't result in them staving off fat storage. I could very easily take this to the extreme that you are arguing that being naked results in getting fatter!

Aside from that, wearing light clothing doesn't make one fat, it isn't even a real correlation, and certainly isn't a causation. The body seeks to maintain homeostasis, and the dietary intake is ultimately the main culprit via its influence on hormone levels, in addition to a person's a physical activity.

I don't think it is even arguable that there is a clear and concise correlation between just wearing light/soft clothing and being fat, but ultimately it has no impact on the primary factor - diet.

Our diet and our external environment have a direct affect on our metabolism, you agree? Our clothing is part of our external environment. So, you're right our diet IS a big factor but not the only factor.

Similarly, exercising IS a big factor in losing weight but not the only factor.

You are welcomed to argue for your opinion, it would be interesting to read supporting studies on your opinion as well.

As I was researching today on this topic, I realized there is a field on "science of clothing", perhaps you could look into it and see whether your opinion could be supported. Let's look into whether being naked would enhance gaining weight or not.

I will keep my eye open and continue to look into more studies as well. :)

George Carlinian
08-29-2008, 12:21 AM
Circuit boards?

There was a documentary on the ancient Egyptian civilizations and hyroglyphics...it talked about many symbols that could never be translated and simply put, whatever it meant, it looked like and was functional as a circuit board. it wasn't water, as would seem natural. electricity is not really a modern discovery...'batteries' have been around, and even the original 'ark of the covenant' was believed by agnostics/atheists to have been something chemically charged to discharge a current when touched.

i'm not saying they had priuses around back in the day, but the knowledge of leadership, the knowledge of the human body, the many sciences, arts, philosophies...back in the day...were up to par with late 19th and early 20th centuries. think of Ghengis Khan, Alexander The Great, and shaka zulu militarily. not only did they conquer but they held ground. think of all the plagues and diseases since europeans have become dominant...archives of ancient civilizations recorded such events also but they happened much less frequently back then.

i wish i had the time to research and write a book on all this. its an insult to ourselves, whatever our backgrounds, to not see falsehoods of current 'esteems' and historic facts...again...from what little remains in history books.

KhanPaulsen
08-29-2008, 12:52 AM
In other words, what you wear modifies your inside...

It doesn't mean it necessarily modifies it to make you fatter. That would be an erroneous conclusion.

I want you to prove that wearing lighter clothing results in a biological response to store fat. That I would love to see, and the burden of proof is on you to prove it since you claimed it does.

Instrinsic thermoregulatory response does not equal fat storage unless the body is seeking to store fat because of climate temperature (ie: eskimos having an extra layer of fat due to the cold climate), which isn't a clothing issue in the first place, as it is a genetics issue.

Establishing that there is a metabolic/thermogenic change as a result of worn clothing is easy, showing that light clothing stores fat is entirely different.

Easiest example in the world: I'm in Anaheim, California (From Stanfield, Arizona), my diet has not changed, my exercise habits have not changed, I am wearing extremely light/airy clothing, and I'm still losing weight because of the humidity.

Yet, if what you posit was even remotely truthful, I'd be getting fatter. Something is rotten in Denmark!

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 01:00 AM
It doesn't mean it necessarily modifies it to make you fatter. That would be an erroneous conclusion.

I want you to prove that wearing lighter clothing results in a biological response to store fat. That I would love to see, and the burden of proof is on you to prove it since you claimed it does.

Instrinsic thermoregulatory response does not equal fat storage unless the body is seeking to store fat because of climate temperature (ie: eskimos having an extra layer of fat due to the cold climate), which isn't a clothing issue in the first place, as it is a genetics issue.

Establishing that there is a metabolic/thermogenic change as a result of worn clothing is easy, showing that light clothing stores fat is entirely different.

Easiest example in the world: I'm in Anaheim, California (From Stanfield, Arizona), my diet has not changed, my exercise habits have not changed, I am wearing extremely light/airy clothing, and I'm still losing weight because of the humidity.

Yet, if what you posit was even remotely truthful, I'd be getting fatter. Something is rotten in Denmark!

Sounds good
I will definitely keep an eye open and look into it.

http://www.hohenstein.de/en/content/content1.asp?hohenstein=46-0-0-0-0

I did even know there was a specific field of science dedicated to "Clothing Physiology."

http://www.bookfinder.com/author/e-t-renbourn/


My research may take a while, as it won't be the only thing I'd be focusing on. However, since this is quite new for me, it should be interesting to look into it.

I'll keep you posted. :)

edit:

Clothing physiology investigates the relationships between clothing, humans and the environment. We regard clothing as 'microclimate systems surrounding humans', and focus on the human physiology related to clothing systems. Clothing physiology requires a basic understanding of thermal physiology, work physiology, exercise physiology. ergonomics, and textiles as well.

http://che.snu.ac.kr/eng/se03_re/se03_re_d/se03_re_d08/se03_re_d08.jsp

KhanPaulsen
08-29-2008, 01:08 AM
At the minimum we'll both learn things, but I am extremely skeptical that the correlation between light/soft clothing and gaining fat can be tenably maintained. The light/soft clothing is so easily negated entirely by stronger factors, rendering the advice ineffective at best.

We shall see...

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 01:11 AM
At the minimum we'll both learn things, but I am extremely skeptical that the correlation between light/soft clothing and gaining fat can be maintained, as the light/soft clothing is so easily negated entirely by stronger factors, rendering the advice effectively worthless.

We shall see...

I can completely understand why you are extremely skeptical about this issue. But as you said at the minimum we'll both learn things.

In case you encounter any interesting studies or articles in regards to Clothing Physiology do let me know.

Thanks

KhanPaulsen
08-29-2008, 01:13 AM
I can completely understand why you are extremely skeptical about this issue. But as you said at the minimum we'll both learn things.

In case you encounter any interesting studies or articles in regards to Clothing Physiology do let me know.

Thanks

I'll keep my eyes pealed, as it isn't something I'm unaware of. Afterall, wrestlers have used clothing physiology for a very long time to make weight, regardless of how unhealthy the proceedure is. :)

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 01:15 AM
I'll keep my eyes pealed, as it isn't something I'm unaware of. Afterall, wrestlers have used clothing physiology for a very long time to make weight, regardless of how unhealthy the proceedure is. :)

Oh I see...
As for me, I was unaware of this branch of science.

:)

Flashbax
08-29-2008, 01:30 AM
More proof Islam is the true word of God :)


So you're saying because someone had a good idea and it was written in the Qu'ran it means Islam is the true word of God?

STFU. Don't be dissing other religions like that.

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 01:45 AM
Khan

How do wrestlers use clothing physiology?
I have heard of ways they use clothing physiology to reach their desired weight prior to the weighing day.

KhanPaulsen
08-29-2008, 02:01 AM
Khan

How do wrestlers use clothing physiology?
I have heard of ways they use clothing physiology to reach their desired weight prior to the weighing day.

As one of your prior posts alluded to - clothing forms its own mini-environment around the person, which in the case of wrestlers is commonly used to restrict/halt air flow in order to increase thermogenesis affect, in turn shedding more weight.

That's why you'll see wrestlers in sweatsuits in summer (air flow restricted), or for the really extreme - the equivalent of garbage bags (no air flow) while doing intense cardio work.

It's typically combined with some degree of fasting as well.

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 02:12 AM
As one of your prior posts alluded to - clothing forms its own mini-environment around the person, which in the case of wrestlers is commonly used to restrict/halt air flow in order to increase thermogenesis affect, in turn shedding more weight.

That's why you'll see wrestlers in sweatsuits in summer (air flow restricted), or for the really extreme - the equivalent of garbage bags (no air flow) while doing intense cardio work.

It's typically combined with some degree of fasting as well.

so is that purely water loss? dehydration? or fat loss as well?
In other words, if let's say you wear garbage bags (or swimsuits) most of the time, and do your usual daily activities (not necessarily exercising), will you lose any non-water weight or you'd lose just water weight?

KhanPaulsen
08-29-2008, 03:10 AM
so is that purely water loss? dehydration? or fat loss as well?

Mostly water loss, perhaps some fat loss and muscle loss. It isn't a healthy way to do things. It puts the kidneys at significant risk due to the severe dehydration.



In other words, if let's say you wear garbage bags (or swimsuits) most of the time, and do your usual daily activities (not necessarily exercising), will you lose any non-water weight or you'd lose just water weight?

All other factors being the same, the difference would be negligible. Wrestlers use it as a way to interfere with the body's cooling mechanism's, thereby increasing thermogenesis. If you're not exercising, then the body would be at homeostasis.

Of course, climate would be a discussion point, but the problem with that is it is going to illicit a powerful effect regardless of clothing.

Even if heavier clothing meant being leaner in a vacuum, it wouldn't necessarily mean light clothing makes you fatter. Ultimately homeostasis would win out, and there would be no change either way in the case of people wearing light clothing.

My bone of contention is with the statement, "Wearing heavy clothes makes you fatter."

Weightaholic
08-29-2008, 05:00 AM
The link between diarrhea and losing weight is clear, so I doubt I need to go over it again. It doesn't actually make you lean though. Merely dehydrated.

Therefore, the statement is incorrect.

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 09:40 AM
It doesn't actually make you lean though. Merely dehydrated.

Therefore, the statement is incorrect.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003107.htm

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/digestive-diseases-diarrhea

http://www.healthscout.com/ency/68/762/main.html

SYRIANKID
08-29-2008, 08:44 PM
Aw geez, I leave for a few hours and this is what happens? Thanks everyone for turning my thread into the Twilight Zone.

http://www.iconsoffright.com/news/twzpic.jpg

As an avid student of the history of science and technology, I'll be the FIRST person to say that medieval scientists, even medieval Muslim scientists, were dead wrong about many things. Just flat out wrong. Nobody was immune from errors when it came to medicine, physics, chemistry (alchemy), and astronomy. In fact, the scientific community had an incorrect understanding of the fundamentals even entering the 19th century.

So let's not bring in every wrong idea that Muslim scientists had, because there are plenty of wacky ideas that medieval scientists put in their books.

From my perspective, Prophetic statements that are divinely inspired, don't suffer from this problem. But later thinkers explored and wrote about their own personal ideas as they tried to fill the gaps before the era of the scientific method and accurate scientific instruments.

No matter how we try to twist and turn, some of their ideas were WAY OFF and UNSALVAGABLE, borderline goofy. Medieval scientists were brilliant polymaths, no doubt about that, true renaissance people who were prolific and suggested correct concepts centuries beyond their time and before they could adequately prove them, but I think the only topics that weren't riddled with errors were geometry and mathematics since they're practically pure logic and deduction. (And from my experience even some of them got the math wrong).

So let's not try to act smart and point out errors in the thoughts of early thinkers because everything is obvious once someone points it out. We live in a world where we get handed accurate scientific information from birth, where we know who we can trust and where we can learn. Back then it was a free-for-all, people inhaling mercury vapours underground in their lares, searching for the "philosopher's stone" or the "elixir of life".

Dave22reborn
08-29-2008, 08:49 PM
Aw geez, I leave for a few hours and this is what happens? Thanks everyone for turning my thread into the Twilight Zone.

http://elpistachoveloz.blogia.com/upload/twilight-zone.jpg

As an avid student of the history of science and technology, I'll be the FIRST person to say that medieval scientists, even medieval Muslim scientists, were dead wrong about many things. Just flat out wrong. Nobody was immune from errors when it came to medicine, physics, chemistry (alchemy), and astronomy. In fact, the scientific community had an incorrect understanding of the fundamentals even entering the 19th century.

So let's not bring in every wrong idea that Muslim scientists had, because there are plenty of wacky ideas that medieval scientists put in their books.

From my perspective, Prophetic statements that are divinely inspired, don't suffer from this problem. But later thinkers explored and wrote about their own personal ideas as they tried to fill the gaps before the era of the scientific method and accurate scientific instruments.

No matter how we try to twist and turn, some of their ideas were WAY OFF and UNSALVAGABLE, borderline goofy. Medieval scientists were brilliant polymaths, no doubt about that, true renaissance people who were prolific and suggested correct concepts centuries beyond their time and before they could adequately prove them, but I think the only topics that weren't riddled with errors were geometry and mathematics since they're practically pure logic and deduction. (And from my experience even some of them got the math wrong).

So let's not try to act smart and point out errors in the thoughts of early thinkers because everything is obvious once someone points it out. We live in a world where we get handed accurate scientific information from birth, where we know who we can trust and where we can learn. Back then it was a free-for-all, people inhaling mercury vapours underground in their lares, searching for the "philosopher's stone" or the "elixir of life".

WOW!!!!!! That shut me up. :(

TranceNRG
08-29-2008, 10:01 PM
So let's not try to act smart and point out errors in the thoughts of early thinkers because everything is obvious once someone points it out. We live in a world where we get handed accurate scientific information from birth, where we know who we can trust and where we can learn. Back then it was a free-for-all, people inhaling mercury vapours underground in their lares, searching for the "philosopher's stone" or the "elixir of life".

I just hope by early thinkers you did not mean the ahlul bayt [pbut].
From my perspective, in addition to the prophet [pbuh], the ahlul bayt [pbut] are also divinely inspired as well, hence they do not suffer from the making errors either.


Sorry, I just had to point this out, since people were/are trying to find errors in the hadiths from ahlul bayt [pbut] that I posted, and I thought perhaps you were referring to that.

If I'm mistaken in my assumption, I'm sorry.

I'll see you soon ;)

SYRIANKID
08-29-2008, 10:18 PM
I just hope by early thinkers you did not mean the ahlul bayt [pbut].
From my perspective, in addition to the prophet [pbuh], the ahlul bayt [pbut] are also divinely inspired as well, hence they do not suffer from the making errors either.


Sorry, I just had to point this out, since people were/are trying to find errors in the hadiths from ahlul bayt [pbut] that I posted, and I thought perhaps you were referring to that.

If I'm mistaken in my assumption, I'm sorry.

I'll see you soon ;)

I wasn't following the thread so I don't know where any of the quotes being pulled came from, but I know that they aren't Prophetic quotes.

But I don't believe that by virtue of someone being related to the Prophet (pbuh) that they don't make scientific errors. People used to give worldly advice according to what they knew best, it doesn't mean that just because they have the Prophet (pbuh) in their lineage that everything that came out of their mouth about medicine to astronomy to cuisine came from God.