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F24
08-25-2008, 01:11 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121962139246367581.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I found this interesting. Highlights include $6.7 billion for anti-poverty programs, a new national bank to finance public works projects in metropolitan areas, and a new White House office of Urban Policy.

Bread and circuses, anyone?

swordsmanzenn
08-25-2008, 02:21 AM
repped. obama has sincerely focused his attention on community service, rebuilding infrastructure, and financial assistance. i have payed close attention to the promises and believe in his words. coming straight out of one of the worst urban areas in the us i see the need for the attention.

FIVE OAKES
08-25-2008, 02:51 AM
Wow, that sounds so hopeful and changely. I'm sure we can believe in that.... :rolleyes:

How the hell does he plan on funding all of his miracle cures?

F24
08-25-2008, 02:53 AM
How the hell does he plan on funding all of his miracle cures?

From the article:

Obama aides say much of the funding would come from an estimated $200 billion saved from reducing government waste and ending the Iraq war.

nutsy54
08-25-2008, 03:13 AM
From the article:
Obama aides say much of the funding would come from an estimated $200 billion saved from reducing government waste and ending the Iraq war.Really? I thought that's how he's going to pay for everything else he's already proposed (hundreds of billions of dollars worth). . .

It's amazing how that "government waste and Iraq War" money seems to be completely endless. Just like everyone else who believes that if it weren't for Iraq, we'd already have universal health care, alternative energy on every corner, disease cured, and end to homelessness and unemployment, every road & bridge repaired, perfect schools, no deficit or debt, and a colony on Mars :rolleyes:

PS: I wonder if he's factored in the increased spending he's proposed for additional troops to Afghanistan.

FIVE OAKES
08-25-2008, 04:31 AM
From the article:

So, he basically wants to make our current expenditure level permanent and has no intention of reducing or even stabilizing our budget deficit? Even after the war, he wants to continue spending the same amount of money?

Plus, like nutsy54 pointed out, this isn't the only multi-billion dollar program he's proposing.

grup910
08-25-2008, 05:41 AM
"bread and circuses?" do you even know what that phrase means? it doesn't look like you do. :rolleyes:

personally I would rather we just keep pumping that money into iraq every couple of months. they need it more than we do anyway -- their people were killed by saddam, after all. :(

FIVE OAKES
08-25-2008, 05:56 AM
"bread and circuses?" do you even know what that phrase means? it doesn't look like you do. :rolleyes:

personally I would rather we just keep pumping that money into iraq every couple of months. they need it more than we do anyway -- their people were killed by saddam, after all. :(

".....hey look over here! Bu$h! Iraq! Hope! Change! Obama yaaaaaaaay!!!"

It's much easier to end a war than a socialist gov't program. Once you give someone something for free, they aren't going to want to pay for it ever again.

BJplayer
08-25-2008, 06:12 AM
".....hey look over here! Bu$h! Iraq! Hope! Change! Obama yaaaaaaaay!!!"

It's much easier to end a war than a socialist gov't program. Once you give someone something for free, they aren't going to want to pay for it ever again.

Bingo! Welfare is inherently immoral as it cripples people for life. Just go look at the residents of any inner city housing project to see the effects of giving people something for nothing. And Obama wants to do more of that?

MFarrar74
08-25-2008, 06:45 AM
".....hey look over here! Bu$h! Iraq! Hope! Change! Obama yaaaaaaaay!!!"

It's much easier to end a war than a socialist gov't program. Once you give someone something for free, they aren't going to want to pay for it ever again.

repped.

grup910
08-25-2008, 06:47 AM
".....hey look over here! Bu$h! Iraq! Hope! Change! Obama yaaaaaaaay!!!"

It's much easier to end a war than a socialist gov't program. Once you give someone something for free, they aren't going to want to pay for it ever again.

public works isn't "giving something away for free." we're getting labor in return, and improved infrastructure. do you even know what public works is? :rolleyes:

we're spending billions of dollars a month in Iraq for their public works programs and to improve their infrastructure (after bu$h bombed the hell out of it -- well, to be fair, that step was necessary to demolish it in the first place, so that his buddies could get the contracts to rebuild it, of course -- all at our expense).

Funny how you don't have a problem with that, when it is tens and hundreds of times more money, and when you don't even get anything out of it in return. I guess it's okay because it's bu$h who's doing it, and bu$h can do no wrong, even when he's spending billions of dollars a month of our money for the public works programs in Iraq, right?

I can only imagine what you biased wack jobs would say if Obama were proposing to spend that $6.7 billion in Iraq like bu$h is doing that you are okay with. :rolleyes:

FIVE OAKES
08-25-2008, 07:11 AM
public works isn't "giving something away for free." we're getting labor in return, and improved infrastructure. do you even know what public works is? :rolleyes:

we're spending billions of dollars a month in Iraq for their public works programs and to improve their infrastructure (after bu$h bombed the hell out of it -- well, to be fair, that step was necessary to demolish it in the first place, so that his buddies could get the contracts to rebuild it, of course -- all at our expense).

Funny how you don't have a problem with that, when it is tens and hundreds of times more money, and when you don't even get anything out of it in return. I guess it's okay because it's bu$h who's doing it, and bu$h can do no wrong, even when he's spending billions of dollars a month of our money for the public works programs in Iraq, right?

I can only imagine what you biased wack jobs would say if Obama were proposing to spend that $6.7 billion in Iraq like bu$h is doing that you are okay with. :rolleyes:

Who said I approved of all the money we're spending in Iraq? If it were up to me, they'd have to pay it all back.

Just because I don't support your wet-dream of Obama doesn't mean I worship Bush or McCain.

jackamo2887
08-25-2008, 07:12 AM
Take money from the rich upper class predominantly white society and give it to the lower class urban predominantly minority's. Socialism for the lose.

grup910
08-25-2008, 07:27 AM
Who said I approved of all the money we're spending in Iraq? If it were up to me, they'd have to pay it all back.

Just because I don't support your wet-dream of Obama doesn't mean I worship Bush or McCain.


no, you just never criticize him, even when he's spending hundreds of times more money IN ANOTHER COUNTRY than Obama is proposing for public works to improve the US economy and infrastructure. no, you don't worship bu$h and mccain at all, of course not. :rolleyes:

KhanPaulsen
08-25-2008, 12:23 PM
So he's going to use the money that's creating all of the debt problems in the first place...

*sigh*

When Iraq is done with that money should be getting used on our debt, not on inherently stupid concepts like Urban Development which might as well be named "Welfare Housing".

However, this idiocy will get votes because people love hand-outs, especially when they're used to them.

F24
08-25-2008, 02:58 PM
"bread and circuses?" do you even know what that phrase means? it doesn't look like you do. :rolleyes:

You disappoint me, grup.


... iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli
uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim
imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se
continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat,
panem et circenses. ...
(Juvenal, Satire 10.77?81)

... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man,
the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time
handed out military command, high civil office, legions ? everything, now
restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things:
bread and circuses

Juvenal here makes reference to the Roman practice of providing free wheat to some poor Romans as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power through populism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Now, if you could argue that the policies proposed by Obama in the above article are not populist, you might have a point.

KLMARB
08-25-2008, 03:34 PM
Ah, another "Peace Dividend". The same thing happened after Vietnam, as well as after the Cold War. Money spent on military expenditures was diverted into more socialistic redistribution. If anything, the money should be returned to the taxpayer via tax reductions. Consider the more than FOUR TRILLION "redistributed" since the "Great Society". What has it gotton us? Nothing. Poverty rates are mostly unchanged, public education has declined, and the family structure of the inner-city has disintegrated. True vote-buying at its finest......When will people wise up? The whole point of all this is to increase dependance and thereby insure political power. All at the expense of America..Hope and change? You mean the hope of changing us back to those heady days of Jimmy Carter...

cman1787
08-25-2008, 03:41 PM
lets not forget he wants to end world poverty too.

where does he plan to get all this money from???? oh yeah, us :rolleyes:

BJplayer
08-25-2008, 03:45 PM
lets not forget he wants to end world poverty too.

where does he plan to get all this money from???? oh yeah, us :rolleyes:

Exactly! Anybody with a job that pays taxes should be asolutely terrified of an Obama Presidency. All of our taxes are about skyrocket. The size of government is going to explode. His administration would be horrific to the middle class. Of course, welfare leeches will love it. And governement bureaucrats will have plenty more job opportunities at our expense.

grup910
08-25-2008, 03:54 PM
You disappoint me, grup.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Now, if you could argue that the policies proposed by Obama in the above article are not populist, you might have a point.

"bread and circuses" typically refers to entertainment and pleasurable *distractions,* not things like public works programs that would actually provide people with jobs and income. :rolleyes: the modern day equivalent would be something like saying, "mccain is providing beer and hotdogs at the football game to get votes." it refers to something that diverts attention from anything the leaders want to distract them from: war in iraq, people losing their homes through a republican-induced housing crisis, skyrocketing credit rates and debt, etc. did you even read the introductory paragraph of the link you posted?


"Bread and circuses" (or Bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is an ancient Roman metaphor for people choosing food and fun over freedom. It often appears in commentary that accuses people of giving up their civic duty and following whichever political leader offers to satisfy their decadent desires.

a public works program is hardly a "decadent desire." :rolleyes:

grup910
08-25-2008, 03:55 PM
Exactly! Anybody with a job that pays taxes should be asolutely terrified of an Obama Presidency. All of our taxes are about skyrocket. The size of government is going to explode. His administration would be horrific to the middle class. Of course, welfare leeches will love it. And governement bureaucrats will have plenty more job opportunities at our expense.

nope, under Obama every middle class family is getting a $1,000 tax CUT. So what you are claiming is 100 percent opposite of reality, sorry.

KLMARB
08-25-2008, 04:07 PM
nope, under Obama every middle class family is getting a $1,000 tax CUT. So what you are claiming is 100 percent opposite of reality, sorry.

Yeah, sure. A middle-class tax cut was what Bill Clinton ran on as well....Be realistic, the numbers simply DO NOT add up....

tinyman5000
08-25-2008, 04:10 PM
Alot of conservatives and liberals alike benefit from social programs, especially people who can't take care of themselves due to age and disability. I am offended by some of the remarks in this thread

k4y
08-25-2008, 04:14 PM
Alot of conservatives and liberals alike benefit from social programs, especially people who can't take care of themselves due to age and disability. I am offended by some of the remarks in this thread

Who truly benefits from inefficient, failing, in-debted, heavily fraud-ed, gov't programs that eventually 1.) collapses or 2.) use up more tax dollars until it collapses?

Hmm....

Oh wellz, letz not think into that far off! CHANGE! YES WE CAN!

grup910
08-25-2008, 04:16 PM
Yeah, sure. A middle-class tax cut was what Bill Clinton ran on as well....Be realistic, the numbers simply DO NOT add up....

they add up fine. what doesn't add up is a trillion dollar war in Iraq and the biggest deficit in history after inheriting a record surplus, all thanks to bu$h policy -- a policy mccain will continue. all mccain adds up to is more pain and job loss for the middle class.

BJplayer
08-25-2008, 04:24 PM
nope, under Obama every middle class family is getting a $1,000 tax CUT. So what you are claiming is 100 percent opposite of reality, sorry.

What a f'n joke!

KLMARB
08-25-2008, 04:30 PM
they add up fine. what doesn't add up is a trillion dollar war in Iraq and the biggest deficit in history after inheriting a record surplus, all thanks to bu$h policy -- a policy mccain will continue. all mccain adds up to is more pain and job loss for the middle class.

Record surplus? Are you kidding? Mere "projections" which would never have come true due to the economic downturn at the end of Clinton's terms. Are you aware that the Dept. of Commerce falsified the economic data during the last two quarters of Clinton's second term? All to help Algore. As to Iraq, its clearly winding down, no suprise to anyone who has studied counterinsurgency, it typically takes seven or so years to be successful. This goes back to the british experience with the Maylays. The dems (at least the ones doing the thinking for all the rest) knew this, so that's why the big antiwar push was on a few years ago, all in order to hand the Repubs a political defeat. Now, I'm certainly not in support of the huge deficit, but we should strive to use facts in our exchanges, not merely spout vacuous, unprovable, subjective dogma...

Beatitude
08-25-2008, 04:38 PM
Office of Urban Policy? Does that mean it would be another cabinet or is that something seperate from that. I am not aware.

Goodness I sure hope he doesn't plan on inflating the bureaucracy even more.

BigThinker
08-25-2008, 04:52 PM
Why don't they just give us our money back and let US decide what best to do with it?

Maybe I don't want to help joe shmoe down the street when my own friends and family need help. Maybe I don't want my money allocated to churches who will give it out - maybe I have my own charities I want to give my money to. Maybe if I had more of my own money back, I could actually help the people I want to help. I don't need Obama or Bush or anyone else telling me who to be charitable to or what programs we need.

Maybe if these people who need help actually quit moaning and groaning about how difficult their lives are and actually GOT OUT AND BUSTED THEIR BUTTS TO MAKE THEIR OWN WAY IN LIFE, things would get better for them. No, I don't like going to work every day, but I do it because I enjoy living my life the way I please. That's FREEDOM. You earn it by paying your own way.

KRANE
08-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Why don't they just give us our money back and let US decide what best to do with it?

Because we'll just go out and do something stupid with it--like go out and buy a car.

Don't you know by now that regular people need to be lead. That's why God put them in charge of us in the first place.

BigThinker
08-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Because we'll just go out and do something stupid with it, like go out and buy a car. Don't you know by now that regular people have to be lead. That's why God put the in charge in the first place.

Some people enjoy being sheep... I am not one of them. :)

KRANE
08-25-2008, 05:07 PM
Some people enjoy being sheep... I am not one of them. :)Then you should run for office; I'll vote for you

DERJEVPOO
08-25-2008, 06:15 PM
Because we'll just go out and do something stupid with it--like go out and buy a car.

Don't you know by now that regular people need to be lead. That's why God put them in charge of us in the first place.

Yeah but we work for that money. We should be able to do what we want to with it.

My Father, Uncles and Grandfathers busted their asses all their lives to get what they have. At the same time these welfare babies sit on their asses popping out more kids so they get a bigger check.

I dont see this in the inner city but it is just the same here with the native americans. They build them new housing developments all the time. They destroy them without caring cause its all free for them.

badbart
08-25-2008, 07:07 PM
Lets give more money to poor, lazy and ignorant.

glycomann
08-25-2008, 07:45 PM
Really? I thought that's how he's going to pay for everything else he's already proposed (hundreds of billions of dollars worth). . .

It's amazing how that "government waste and Iraq War" money seems to be completely endless. Just like everyone else who believes that if it weren't for Iraq, we'd already have universal health care, alternative energy on every corner, disease cured, and end to homelessness and unemployment, every road & bridge repaired, perfect schools, no deficit or debt, and a colony on Mars :rolleyes:

PS: I wonder if he's factored in the increased spending he's proposed for additional troops to Afghanistan.

There is a difference between spending on war and spending domestically. capital spent on the former is gone forever. Capital spent on the later is an investment with a multiplier effect.

nutsy54
08-25-2008, 08:29 PM
nope, under Obama every middle class family is getting a $1,000 tax CUT. So what you are claiming is 100 percent opposite of reality, sorry.Then where the hell are the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS going to come from to fund all his new programs?

And if you pull the standard crap of "Tax the Rich!", you just signed the death warrant for our economy. How's that $1,000 bribe for your vote going to look when you're jobless?

OatsandSteak
08-25-2008, 08:46 PM
no, you just never criticize him, even when he's spending hundreds of times more money IN ANOTHER COUNTRY than Obama is proposing for public works to improve the US economy and infrastructure. no, you don't worship bu$h and mccain at all, of course not. :rolleyes:

So if we don't complain and blame Bush in every thread we worship him? I understand where your logic comes from. I personally believe that we can criticize Obama's policies and still dislike what Bush has done, especially in Iraq but we don't have to point out that Bush is a douche every time we do it. You do enough of that.

HoosierBoy
08-25-2008, 08:52 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121962139246367581.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I found this interesting. Highlights include $6.7 billion for anti-poverty programs, a new national bank to finance public works projects in metropolitan areas, and a new White House office of Urban Policy.

Bread and circuses, anyone?

Yep. That's really Constitutional. :rolleyes:

AntonioWright
08-25-2008, 08:58 PM
Lets give more money to poor, lazy and ignorant.

Speaking for yourself? I think you got the ignorant part locked down.

OatsandSteak
08-25-2008, 09:14 PM
Yeah but we work for that money. We should be able to do what we want to with it.

My Father, Uncles and Grandfathers busted their asses all their lives to get what they have. At the same time these welfare babies sit on their asses popping out more kids so they get a bigger check.

I dont see this in the inner city but it is just the same here with the native americans. They build them new housing developments all the time. They destroy them without caring cause its all free for them.

It's similar here. Indians get quite substantial reparations if they live on reserves, they also get land claims, which get complained about because it takes so long for the claims to get settled. I don't blame them though, I blame the Government for giving reparations, that's what causes these things to happen.

There are many many problems on reserves, high alcohol dependency rates, high suicide rates, high obesity rates. They have free college and tax exempt status but still live off the Government, something isn't working. It's just dividing Canadians.

gympunk
08-25-2008, 10:11 PM
It's much easier to end a war than a socialist gov't program. Once you give someone something for free, they aren't going to want to pay for it ever again.

Here's an expensive Socailst plan for you, Bushs' 2004 Prescription Drug Bill, the largest expansion of Welfare in 40 years. It's 'unfunded' so you & I pay for it. It's 10 year cost, nearly a Trillion dollars, this is dated info below, I'm sure it's ended up costing more. But, you know, Republicans believe in small Govt.,,theyr'e always talking about it anyway.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/20867.php

FIVE OAKES
08-26-2008, 12:24 AM
Because we'll just go out and do something stupid with it--like go out and buy a car.


Which would help our economy much more than "Urban Development" projects run by the federal gov't.


Here's an expensive Socailst plan for you, Bushs' 2004 Prescription Drug Bill, the largest expansion of Welfare in 40 years. It's 'unfunded' so you & I pay for it. It's 10 year cost, nearly a Trillion dollars, this is dated info below, I'm sure it's ended up costing more. But, you know, Republicans believe in small Govt.,,theyr'e always talking about it anyway.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/20867.php

Oh, well in that case - I guess it's only fair to let the Democrats add hundreds of billions of dollars worth of gov't programs also.

:rolleyes:

randomhero97
08-26-2008, 12:29 AM
Why don't they just give us our money back and let US decide what best to do with it?

Maybe I don't want to help joe shmoe down the street when my own friends and family need help. Maybe I don't want my money allocated to churches who will give it out - maybe I have my own charities I want to give my money to. Maybe if I had more of my own money back, I could actually help the people I want to help. I don't need Obama or Bush or anyone else telling me who to be charitable to or what programs we need.

Maybe if these people who need help actually quit moaning and groaning about how difficult their lives are and actually GOT OUT AND BUSTED THEIR BUTTS TO MAKE THEIR OWN WAY IN LIFE, things would get better for them. No, I don't like going to work every day, but I do it because I enjoy living my life the way I please. That's FREEDOM. You earn it by paying your own way.


The voice of sanity, reps.

nutsy54
08-26-2008, 04:48 AM
no, you just never criticize him, even when he's spending hundreds of times more money IN ANOTHER COUNTRY than Obama is proposing for public works to improve the US economy and infrastructure. no, you don't worship bu$h and mccain at all, of course not. :rolleyes:Once again, blinded by your own hatred. There are plenty of posts from many users (including me) that consistently point out various problems with the Bush Presidency and some of his policies. But in your book, if anyone ever mentions a word of support, they're ridiculed as a blind, loving sheep.

Oh, and your post is a complete Lie - All of Obama's admitted spending is far more than our annual costs in Iraq. A usual, you just post false information and hope nobody questions you on it.

Hell, Obama's little-advertised support of the UN Poverty program will cost this country as much as our total Iraq spending has been - all of which will meet your derided definition of spending IN ANOTHER COUNTRY. If you really know so little about your preferred candidate, it sounds like you should start doing some serious research.

KRANE
08-27-2008, 04:51 PM
Yeah but we work for that money. We should be able to do what we want to with it.

My Father, Uncles and Grandfathers busted their asses all their lives to get what they have. At the same time these welfare babies sit on their asses popping out more kids so they get a bigger check.No disrespect your forefathers, but there are generations of people who worked just as hard (if not harder) and received nothing to show for it. Before you give yourself too big a pat on the back, think about them.


I don't see this in the inner city There are legions of people that literally destroy concrete and iron, then manufacturer babies like puppy mills
but it is just the same here with the native Americans. They build them new housing developments all the time. They destroy them without caring cause its all free for them.Considering the history of native Americans I have nothing to say about this except they are the worst off group in this country.

DERJEVPOO
08-27-2008, 07:04 PM
No disrespect your forefathers, but there are generations of people who worked just as hard (if not harder) and received nothing to show for it. Before you give yourself too big a pat on the back, think about them. .

I'm not saying there isn't other people out there that work hard. I'm saying myfather didn't ask for anything from anyone when he was on an offshore rig working for $6-8 per hr for months straight and paying $300 dollars a month child support. At no point did I "pat myself on the back" . I didn't say anything about me. But I do believe in pulling my own weight.


There are legions of people that literally destroy concrete and iron, then manufacturer babies like puppy mills.

Not sure what this means (no hate)


Considering the history of native Americans I have nothing to say about this except they are the worst off group in this country.

This is b.s. It's like saying black people have been oppressed for hundreds of years. Well there are plenty of minorities who have got up off there asses and made something of themselves.

Native Americans have become so use to the government taking care of them they have become lazy. Almost every house on the reservation is trashed. They all look like junkyards because they don't take care of their cars. When one breaks down they just go buy another with their monthly check (TAXPAYER MONEY).

Also there are drilling rigs all over the reservation that only natives can work on aside from the driller and rig manager. The only way a white person can get a job on is if they cannot find a native person. But if there is a white guy working and a native person shows up and wants a job, the white guy is layed off. What usually ends up happening is that native works for a week to get a paycheck to buy booze for a couple months. So he quits and both are out of a job. This is not all native americans of course but it is the vast majority.

I'm sure I am sounding rascist at the moment but I'm not. I am only stating what I see.

My question is, is how can these people stop being oppressed if they don't try to excel in society. They just keep complaining but don't do anything about it.

KLMARB
08-28-2008, 04:25 PM
There is a difference between spending on war and spending domestically. capital spent on the former is gone forever. Capital spent on the later is an investment with a multiplier effect.

I think you've got it backwards. Military spending goes to american companies who supply the military. Socialistic redistribution in the form of domestic spending enables people to smoke a better cig, or eat pork instead of chicken. That's nothing compared to the jobs and taxpayers that are created when you spend money on military supplies...As opposed to supporting "Poverty Pimps", and all the others that feed off the welfare/dependant/subsistance class......

gympunk
08-28-2008, 05:00 PM
Oh, well in that case - I guess it's only fair to let the Democrats add hundreds of billions of dollars worth of gov't programs also.:rolleyes:

No it just shows the "Socialist" tag is kind of an uneducated statement.
Must've picked it up from Rush or Sean without thinking.

KRANE
08-28-2008, 05:07 PM
This is b.s. It's like saying black people have been oppressed for hundreds of years. Well there are plenty of minorities who have got up off there asses and made something of themselves.

Native Americans have become so use to the government taking care of them they have become lazy. Almost every house on the reservation is trashed. They all look like junkyards because they don't take care of their cars. When one breaks down they just go buy another with their monthly check (TAXPAYER MONEY). LOL, how much would you say the Americas are worth?

Also there are drilling rigs all over the reservation that only natives can work on aside from the driller and rig manager. The only way a white person can get a job on is if they cannot find a native person. But if there is a white guy working and a native person shows up and wants a job, the white guy is laid off. What usually ends up happening is that native works for a week to get a paycheck to buy booze for a couple months. So he quits and both are out of a job. This is not all native americans of course but it is the vast majority.[/quote]


I'm sure I am sounding racist at the moment but I'm not. I am only stating what I see.No, just imperceptive. The seem to have done pretty well before Europeans arrived?


My question is, is how can these people stop being oppressed if they don't try to excel in society. They just keep complaining but don't do anything about it.Maybe they haven't been taught how to fish?

squanto
08-28-2008, 05:21 PM
If you're poor, go to college and get a good job, they'll pay you money, you won't be poor anymore.

Plus I'll give everyone the 200 bucks back we would have just put into this retarded program. Sweet huh?

KRANE
08-28-2008, 06:05 PM
If you're poor, go to college and get a good job, they'll pay you money, you won't be poor anymore.Just how much does it cost to go to Harvard these days.

squanto
08-28-2008, 06:12 PM
Just how much does it cost to go to Harvard these days.

Depends on what kind of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid you have. But probably a lot.

What's your point?

F24
08-28-2008, 06:38 PM
Just how much does it cost to go to Harvard these days.

Actually, as much as you can afford to pay. Harvard gives need-based scholarships to all students these days, apparently. It's based upon your parents' income. So, if needed, Harvard will give you a full ride.

JayKid
08-28-2008, 06:46 PM
Actually, as much as you can afford to pay. Harvard gives need-based scholarships to all students these days, apparently. It's based upon your parents' income. So, if needed, Harvard will give you a full ride.

Yes and no. You have to pay the money back. Like all financial aid. So, while it is still great, because basically anyone can afford to go there, they don't get it for free. They jsut are garaunteed the money in loans/aid they have to pay back.

F24
08-28-2008, 06:53 PM
Yes and no. You have to pay the money back. Like all financial aid. So, while it is still great, because basically anyone can afford to go there, they don't get it for free. They jsut are garaunteed the money in loans/aid they have to pay back.

Really? That's not what I heard. That's no different from any other student loan.

glycomann
08-28-2008, 08:27 PM
I think you've got it backwards. Military spending goes to american companies who supply the military. Socialistic redistribution in the form of domestic spending enables people to smoke a better cig, or eat pork instead of chicken. That's nothing compared to the jobs and taxpayers that are created when you spend money on military supplies...As opposed to supporting "Poverty Pimps", and all the others that feed off the welfare/dependant/subsistance class......

Nope, war just burns capital. That's it. Investment in infrastructure, business tax incentives, proper investment in government programs etc can help to build the economy. One thing that Clinton did was to double the NIH budget. That fueled the growth of the biotech sector that drove a big part of the economy for a good decade. Couple proper monetary policy with government spending and the economy can definitely benefit.

FIVE OAKES
08-29-2008, 12:34 AM
No it just shows the "Socialist" tag is kind of an uneducated statement.
Must've picked it up from Rush or Sean without thinking.

You use the fact that Republicans also do a certain thing to prove that it is not a socialist idea?


Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

A health care system that is run by the gov't and uses money taken involuntarily from the people is a socialist principle.

Taking money from one group of people and giving it to another group is a socialist principle. (ie, using everyone's money - especially the rich - to rebuild poorer neighborhoods)

America is already between capitalism and socialism. That's not always a bad thing, but it can be taken too far.

Before you accuse people of making "uneducated statements" you might want to educate your damn self.


Just how much does it cost to go to Harvard these days.

1. You don't have to go to an ivy league school to be successful.

2. Did you not watch Obama's acceptance speech at the DNC? Talking about how his mom was using food stamps but was still able to send him to an ivy league school with the help of financial aid and student loans?

You think they gave her cheaper rates because she's white?

KRANE
08-29-2008, 01:36 PM
1. You don't have to go to an ivy league school to be successful.

2. Did you not watch Obama's acceptance speech at the DNC? Talking about how his mom was using food stamps but was still able to send him to an ivy league school with the help of financial aid and student loans?

You think they gave her cheaper rates because she's white?Of course you don't. But that also doesn't mean you can use Obama's Harvard education as examples for the masses. When it comes to Harvard graduates, even their poor are among the elite.
Depends on what kind of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid you have. But probably a lot.

What's your point?It's not as easy as snapping your fingers. College educations can be difficult to come by. And financial aid notwithstanding, that's still true for the economically disadvantaged.

Mojita-119
08-29-2008, 02:16 PM
YES OBAMA
VOTE OBAMA
EUROPE AND THE REST OF THE WORLD SUPPORT OBAMA

Conclussion: vote obama

HoosierBoy
08-29-2008, 09:47 PM
YES OBAMA
VOTE OBAMA
EUROPE AND THE REST OF THE WORLD SUPPORT OBAMA

Conclussion: vote obama

What's a conclussion?

P.s. nobody cares what Europe thinks.

klemme
08-29-2008, 10:30 PM
if you want 'urban development', make people more accountable for their own actions, and stop giving them a meal ticket.

I worked my ass off to get into college. Do good in school and afford to put meat on your own table.

I don't buy this bull**** about so many people needing gov. assistance. i understand disabled people needing alot of help, or people who are very sick with either mental or physical illness, but other than that, they make their own destiny.

in some cities, the urban highschool graduation rate is 50%

excuse me, but graduating highschool is as easy as showing up most of the time. There is no excuse for it. People are swindled up into the life of gangs and drugs, this i know, but they still have a choice. Everyone has a choice. I can choose to do nothing, and i will get/have nothing. I decided to get decent grades and go to college. My parents are middle class. You know what that means? I am paying for college myself. I am taking out loans and paying for it. So why can't other people?

Because they choose to.

72cutlass
08-29-2008, 10:34 PM
Just how much does it cost to go to Harvard these days.

More then most white people can afford. Grow the hell up, no such thing as a free lunch. Irish were once the scum of new york they have flourished just fine. If your poor its your own doing. Not everyone can be wealthy, everyone can put food on their table though its about priorities.

God gave me no one to lead me, my parents decided to teach me how to fend for myself. Apparently yours taught you to beg for change, im sorry mine taught me how to make something of myself.

SECONDLY>>>>>

the ironic thing is Obamas good freind got busted for frauding millions of dollars out of mainly african-americans during the course of his so called urban development project or w/e. Ill dig up the exact story later. Remember who you are is defined by who you keep around.

KRANE
08-30-2008, 05:36 PM
What's a conclussion?

P.s. nobody cares what Europe thinks.My conclusions is when someone has nothing useful to say they attack grammatical error? What was your point?

Unless you can provide some good reason why he should not support Obama, stop making meaningless replys. There's so much of that going on in these theads lately, and it's pathetic.

KRANE
08-30-2008, 05:41 PM
if you want 'urban development', make people more accountable for their own actions, and stop giving them a meal ticket.

I worked my ass off to get into college. Do good in school and afford to put meat on your own table.

I don't buy this bull**** about so many people needing gov. assistance. i understand disabled people needing alot of help, or people who are very sick with either mental or physical illness, but other than that, they make their own destiny.

in some cities, the urban highschool graduation rate is 50%

excuse me, but graduating highschool is as easy as showing up most of the time. There is no excuse for it. People are swindled up into the life of gangs and drugs, this i know, but they still have a choice. Everyone has a choice. I can choose to do nothing, and i will get/have nothing. I decided to get decent grades and go to college. My parents are middle class. You know what that means? I am paying for college myself. I am taking out loans and paying for it. So why can't other people?

Because they choose to.Stop deluding yourself. The government exist for that purpose, and had given incentives and help to it's citizens since it was establishment. Some of the richest people and organizations in America get a free ride.

72cutlass
08-30-2008, 06:00 PM
Some of the richest people and organizations in America get a free ride.


the corporate tax rate is 35%, people who own a corporation file their taxes thru their corporation because it is cheaper then the income tax they would have to pay.

Do you honestly believe is fair to steal 35% of someones money that they earned?

ers124
08-30-2008, 06:07 PM
Once you give someone something for free, they aren't going to want to pay for it ever again.

EXACTLY!

I think this video explains this concept well.

FdkQwQQWX9Q

KRANE
08-30-2008, 06:23 PM
the corporate tax rate is 35%, people who own a corporation file their taxes thru their corporation because it is cheaper then the income tax they would have to pay.

Do you honestly believe is fair to steal 35% of someones money that they earned?No I do not. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to trade places with anyone of them. Would you?

klemme
08-30-2008, 06:39 PM
Stop deluding yourself. The government exist for that purpose, and had given incentives and help to it's citizens since it was establishment. Some of the richest people and organizations in America get a free ride.




Yet almost all of the richest people in America have graduating highschool.

Dr. Bill cosby and a professor from Harvard where on oprah the other day talking about why urban situations are so bad. a good point they made was a serious decline in graduation rates.

no diploma = no good job.

my argument is simple. a more educated person usually makes to be a more succsessful person.

KRANE
08-30-2008, 06:46 PM
Yet almost all of the richest people in America have graduating highschool.

Dr. Bill cosby and a professor from Harvard where on oprah the other day talking about why urban situations are so bad. a good point they made was a serious decline in graduation rates.

no diploma = no good job.

my argument is simple. a more educated person usually makes to be a more succsessful person.Are we talking social problems in general, or just the ones in the black community? Either way we've seem to have gotten off topic a bit, don't you think? On the other hard, some people seem to think andy discussion that begins with Sen. Obama (or denicrate) is a discussion of social ills in America. In that case, one might ask oneself how things got that bad in the first place.

klemme
08-30-2008, 06:58 PM
Are we talking social problems in general, or just the ones in the black community? Either way we've seem to have gotten off topic a bit, don't you think? On the other hard, some people seem to think andy discussion that begins with Sen. Obama (or denicrate) is a discussion of social ills in America. In that case, one might ask oneself how things got that bad in the first place.



my point was staying in school would do alot for urban development. black or white kids man, doesn't matter. Lower income families of all colors typically have much lower graduation rates.

people taking control of their own lives and getting a diploma will go a long way towards 'development'.


i hope you agree, right?

KRANE
08-31-2008, 12:56 PM
my point was staying in school would do a lot for urban development. black or white kids man, doesn't matter. Lower income families of all colors typically have much lower graduation rates.

people taking control of their own lives and getting a diploma will go a long way towards 'development'.


i hope you agree, right?Who would disagree with that? However, I think you my be over simplifying the issue.

I remember growing up and hearing about many kids that had to drop out of school to get jobs and help support their families. Sometimes it's not that they don't want to go to schools, as it is they don't have the opportunity to do so.

KLMARB
09-02-2008, 02:05 PM
Nope, war just burns capital. That's it. Investment in infrastructure, business tax incentives, proper investment in government programs etc can help to build the economy. One thing that Clinton did was to double the NIH budget. That fueled the growth of the biotech sector that drove a big part of the economy for a good decade. Couple proper monetary policy with government spending and the economy can definitely benefit.

There is no such thing as "investment" in government programs. Only taxation. Why not just call it a "funding stream" or some other type of obfuscation. Business tax incentives in the form of tax credits or reductions are not examples of government spending. As far as infrastructure, that should be left up to the taxpayers, not to some politician trying to brag about his "pork" brought back to his district. I have no problems with tax credits, as taxes are way too high, and money left in the private sector is ALWAYS better than money taken by an inherently inefficient government...

glycomann
09-02-2008, 03:14 PM
There is no such thing as "investment" in government programs. Only taxation. Why not just call it a "funding stream" or some other type of obfuscation. Business tax incentives in the form of tax credits or reductions are not examples of government spending. As far as infrastructure, that should be left up to the taxpayers, not to some politician trying to brag about his "pork" brought back to his district. I have no problems with tax credits, as taxes are way too high, and money left in the private sector is ALWAYS better than money taken by an inherently inefficient government...

So you declare this by fiat then. I'm sure you can find examples to support your belief. I might even agree with you on some. The majority of government spending has hidden waste. That's true. I don't like welfare or even workfare. I don't like bridges to nowhere and I don't like dumping a trillion dollars on unnecessary wars. And, I will jump up and down until I split like Rumple Stillskin if I am made to pay reparations to blacks. On the other hand, and on rare occasion, the government gets it right like my NIH example. And I do know that infrastructure is money well spent by the government. We do need roads and highways. We also need intelligence agencies. We also need law enforcement and a Military. We need the FDA and the Department of Agriculture to protect the consumer from unacceptable food drugs and cosmetics. We need the CDC for control of disease outbreaks. There are other Government agencies that are necessary as well. Now if we could just control the whores in D.C. we might get the rest of the spending under control.

dabbmw2002
02-16-2017, 07:04 PM
Lol!!!!!

recedingjaw
02-16-2017, 07:27 PM
repped. Obama has sincerely focused his attention on community service, rebuilding infrastructure, and financial assistance. I have payed close attention to the promises and believe in his words. Coming straight out of one of the worst urban areas in the us i see the need for the attention.
lol

Pterodactyl314
02-16-2017, 07:29 PM
So you declare this by fiat then. I'm sure you can find examples to support your belief. I might even agree with you on some. The majority of government spending has hidden waste. That's true. I don't like welfare or even workfare. I don't like bridges to nowhere and I don't like dumping a trillion dollars on unnecessary wars...

Post: 0
Rep Power: 0

Wot

A-GAME
02-16-2017, 07:30 PM
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Joe-Biden-Laughing-Shaking-his-Head.gif