PDA

View Full Version : Calorie free sweeteners causing fat gain



sizeNstrength
08-06-2008, 07:08 AM
In my job I am sometimes required to go out and have a few drinks while meeting with people - as I am trying to lose body fat, I have been sticking with "skinny bitches" (coke zero and vodka) - now I KNOW that there is no such thing as healthy drinking and I don't drink a lot by any means...but I figured at least when I had to - keeping with a zero calorie soda as a mixer would be a better choice. I got curious about artificial sweeteners and read quite a bit about it on here and other places when I came across this study done at Purdue where it appears that ingesting artificial sweeteners could possibly cause weight gain compared to regular sugar.

http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/bne-feb08-swithers.pdf


In short, 2 groups of rats were fed yogurt - 1 sweetened with artificial sweetener and 1 with sugar...rats fed with saccharin gained more fat then their sugar-fed counterparts. The findings and theoretical framework are in closer agreement with the possibility that increased intake of no-calorie sugar substitutes could promote increased intake and body weight gain.

From what I can tell it has to do with brain function and the act of tasting something sweet causes a reaction in the brain that can stimulate fat gain...

If someone smarter and more versed in science than me has any more info on this I would be grateful.

Vitamin C
08-06-2008, 07:40 AM
Interesting.

I'd like to know what someone who has a scientific background has to say about the results.

It seems that both hypotheses were supported.

I'm not a scientist, but if a person counts calories then I do not believe the same effects would be observed since s/he would make sure not to surpass a specific calorie goal, regardless of how sweet or how bland the food is (this is assuming, of course, that the person is prudent about controlling their overall caloric intake).

sizeNstrength
08-06-2008, 07:45 AM
Interesting.

I'd like to know what someone who has a scientific background has to say about the results.

It seems that both hypotheses were supported.

I'm not a scientist, but if a person counts calories then I do not believe the same effects would be observed since s/he would make sure not to surpass a specific calorie goal, regardless of how sweet or how bland the food is (this is assuming, of course, that the person is prudent about controlling their overall caloric intake).

Good point.

One of the effects I think is the relation of ingesting artificial sweeteners and the stimulation of hunger - so if someone is in fact diligent in counting calories than there might not be an issue. What I am curious about is the other hypothesis about the possibility of gaining weight from the mere fact of ingesting something so sweet.

Vipersg123
08-06-2008, 08:06 AM
Good point.

One of the effects I think is the relation of ingesting artificial sweeteners and the stimulation of hunger - so if someone is in fact diligent in counting calories than there might not be an issue. What I am curious about is the other hypothesis about the possibility of gaining weight from the mere fact of ingesting something so sweet.

Yeah I do believe a number of studies found this to be the stimulation of hunger.

Vitamin C
08-06-2008, 08:20 AM
Good point.

One of the effects I think is the relation of ingesting artificial sweeteners and the stimulation of hunger - so if someone is in fact diligent in counting calories than there might not be an issue. What I am curious about is the other hypothesis about the possibility of gaining weight from the mere fact of ingesting something so sweet.

And on top of being very sweet, not being very calorie-dense. I think it's the interaction that is the culprit.

In my own experience using art. sweeteners I have noticed that I would like to have more of whatever it is that is being sweetened; yet, I still control my caloric intake so I don't experience the weight gain.

But I agree, the hunger seems to be stimulated by the sweetness.

It's the same thing for me when I eat more carbs: I get hungrier; as opposed to when I take in more protein.

Good find. Reps.

stew9812
08-06-2008, 08:39 AM
Im no expert but, it could be possible that the sugar actually was boosting the metabolism since it has calories, compared to no calories, no metabolism gain. More metabolism more fat loss, just a thought.

I didn't really read through much of this post but i just thought i would pop in and give my .02

Vitamin C
08-06-2008, 09:04 AM
Im no expert but, it could be possible that the sugar actually was boosting the metabolism since it has calories, compared to no calories, no metabolism gain. More metabolism more fat loss, just a thought.

I didn't really read through much of this post but i just thought i would pop in and give my .02

Hmmm.... I sea where you're going with this.

Makes sense.

papagunz
08-06-2008, 09:12 AM
Im no expert but, it could be possible that the sugar actually was boosting the metabolism since it has calories, compared to no calories, no metabolism gain. More metabolism more fat loss, just a thought.

I didn't really read through much of this post but i just thought i would pop in and give my .02

The thermic effect of digesting sugar isn't going to override the calories you consume. If that were the case, there would be a lot less fat people. :)

Bane
08-06-2008, 10:50 AM
Another problem with the "diet" foods and drinks is that people usually consume much more than normal versions, since they don't have guilt to restrain them

newlifter87
08-06-2008, 11:24 AM
A neuroscience teacher I had (sort of old and radical though) said that he believes the ingestion of fake sugar causes fat gain because even if you aren't getting sugar in your system the mere taste of sweet things causes insulin release similar though not to the same magnitude of the body detecting actual sugar in the body. I haven't read any studies about this though so I have no idea.

scoot557
08-06-2008, 11:39 AM
The thermic effect of digesting sugar isn't going to override the calories you consume. If that were the case, there would be a lot less fat people. :)

I believe he was implying that all things being equal (caloric intake), it takes some energy (not a whole lot, in the instance of sugar) to digest it, whereas the 0-calorie sweeteners require less.

So if my diet has 2,000 calories and I use artificial sweeteners, there is no TEF of digesting that. If my diet is 2,000 calories and I have sugar instead of 0-calorie sweetener, I will have some metabolic increase to digest however much sugar I consumed. Using sugar instead of an artificial sweetener means I will have had to dropped some amount calories from another source to keep the caloric input for the day the same.

stew9812
08-06-2008, 12:13 PM
I believe he was implying that all things being equal (caloric intake), it takes some energy (not a whole lot, in the instance of sugar) to digest it, whereas the 0-calorie sweeteners require less.

So if my diet has 2,000 calories and I use artificial sweeteners, there is no TEF of digesting that. If my diet is 2,000 calories and I have sugar instead of 0-calorie sweetener, I will have some metabolic increase to digest however much sugar I consumed. Using sugar instead of an artificial sweetener means I will have had to dropped some amount calories from another source to keep the caloric input for the day the same.

Yea, this is basically what i was trying to say. Some of the things that I've read about loosing fat say that if you don't have enough calories coming in per day your metabolism will take a significant drop. So i just though that this could have effected the rats since they are much smaller and the effect could be on a larger scale.

Edit: Also since the sugar has more calories and gives you a bit of a boost the sugar rats could have been more active than the non sugar rats, burning more calories.

I guess i should have read the whole study on the rats but i just wanted to throw that out there.

papagunz
08-06-2008, 12:15 PM
I believe he was implying that all things being equal (caloric intake), it takes some energy (not a whole lot, in the instance of sugar) to digest it, whereas the 0-calorie sweeteners require less.

So if my diet has 2,000 calories and I use artificial sweeteners, there is no TEF of digesting that. If my diet is 2,000 calories and I have sugar instead of 0-calorie sweetener, I will have some metabolic increase to digest however much sugar I consumed. Using sugar instead of an artificial sweetener means I will have had to dropped some amount calories from another source to keep the caloric input for the day the same.

I can see what you're trying to get at, but if the diets are isocaloric it won't matter. The thermic effect of feeding will be the same (assuming the p/c/f ratios are identical) anyway.

Let's say subject A and B both have 50 grams of sugar per day in their carb alotment. And let's say subject B also consumes a few diet cokes per day for a calorie free source of sweetness. They will both be getting the same TEF from digesting the sugar, just that subject B so happens to consume some artificial sweeteners. If you are talking about the total intake of anything flavored verus just whole foods, then yes, I agree with you. But then you are talking volume of intake and not calories, which isn't nearly as important anyway if at all.

The only way I could see diet soda/sweeteners be a problem if it can cause insulin release, do whacky things to metabolism/blood sugar, ect. But, there are plenty of people who track calories and consume diet beverages to keep their sweet tooth sane with fantastic results. Which leads me to believe all along, it's the calories, which, we can all agree on. :)

FoolontheHill
08-06-2008, 02:48 PM
a friend of mine was telling me he found a study in which artificial sweeteners caused some degree of insulin release due to there being some kind of "taste buds" in the digestive system. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find any evidence on that one.

sizeNstrength
08-06-2008, 03:21 PM
A neuroscience teacher I had (sort of old and radical though) said that he believes the ingestion of fake sugar causes fat gain because even if you aren't getting sugar in your system the mere taste of sweet things causes insulin release similar though not to the same magnitude of the body detecting actual sugar in the body. I haven't read any studies about this though so I have no idea.

This is what I am really curious about. It seems like a couple people have heard about this theory...anyone find any studies?

FoolontheHill
08-06-2008, 03:21 PM
A little something something I found:

Gut-expressed gustducin and taste receptors regulate secretion of glucagon-like peptide-1.Jang HJ, Kokrashvili Z, Theodorakis MJ, Carlson OD, Kim BJ, Zhou J, Kim HH, Xu X, Chan SL, Juhaszova M, Bernier M, Mosinger B, Margolskee RF, Egan JM.
National Institute on Aging/National Institutes of Health, 5600 Nathan Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), released from gut endocrine L cells in response to glucose, regulates appetite, insulin secretion, and gut motility. How glucose given orally, but not systemically, induces GLP-1 secretion is unknown. We show that human duodenal L cells express sweet taste receptors, the taste G protein gustducin, and several other taste transduction elements. Mouse intestinal L cells also express alpha-gustducin. Ingestion of glucose by alpha-gustducin null mice revealed deficiencies in secretion of GLP-1 and the regulation of plasma insulin and glucose. Isolated small bowel and intestinal villi from alpha-gustducin null mice showed markedly defective GLP-1 secretion in response to glucose. The human L cell line NCI-H716 expresses alpha-gustducin, taste receptors, and several other taste signaling elements. GLP-1 release from NCI-H716 cells was promoted by sugars and the noncaloric sweetener sucralose, and blocked by the sweet receptor antagonist lactisole or siRNA for alpha-gustducin. We conclude that L cells of the gut "taste" glucose through the same mechanisms used by taste cells of the tongue. Modulating GLP-1 secretion in gut "taste cells" may provide an important treatment for obesity, diabetes and abnormal gut motility.

PMID: 17724330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID: PMC1986614

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2007 Sep 18;104(38):15069-74. Epub 2007 Aug 27.

sizeNstrength
08-06-2008, 03:22 PM
I believe he was implying that all things being equal (caloric intake), it takes some energy (not a whole lot, in the instance of sugar) to digest it, whereas the 0-calorie sweeteners require less.

So if my diet has 2,000 calories and I use artificial sweeteners, there is no TEF of digesting that. If my diet is 2,000 calories and I have sugar instead of 0-calorie sweetener, I will have some metabolic increase to digest however much sugar I consumed. Using sugar instead of an artificial sweetener means I will have had to dropped some amount calories from another source to keep the caloric input for the day the same.

well put

sizeNstrength
08-06-2008, 03:25 PM
A little something something I found:

Gut-expressed gustducin and taste receptors regulate secretion of glucagon-like peptide-1.Jang HJ, Kokrashvili Z, Theodorakis MJ, Carlson OD, Kim BJ, Zhou J, Kim HH, Xu X, Chan SL, Juhaszova M, Bernier M, Mosinger B, Margolskee RF, Egan JM.
National Institute on Aging/National Institutes of Health, 5600 Nathan Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), released from gut endocrine L cells in response to glucose, regulates appetite, insulin secretion, and gut motility. How glucose given orally, but not systemically, induces GLP-1 secretion is unknown. We show that human duodenal L cells express sweet taste receptors, the taste G protein gustducin, and several other taste transduction elements. Mouse intestinal L cells also express alpha-gustducin. Ingestion of glucose by alpha-gustducin null mice revealed deficiencies in secretion of GLP-1 and the regulation of plasma insulin and glucose. Isolated small bowel and intestinal villi from alpha-gustducin null mice showed markedly defective GLP-1 secretion in response to glucose. The human L cell line NCI-H716 expresses alpha-gustducin, taste receptors, and several other taste signaling elements. GLP-1 release from NCI-H716 cells was promoted by sugars and the noncaloric sweetener sucralose, and blocked by the sweet receptor antagonist lactisole or siRNA for alpha-gustducin. We conclude that L cells of the gut "taste" glucose through the same mechanisms used by taste cells of the tongue. Modulating GLP-1 secretion in gut "taste cells" may provide an important treatment for obesity, diabetes and abnormal gut motility.

PMID: 17724330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID: PMC1986614

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2007 Sep 18;104(38):15069-74. Epub 2007 Aug 27.

Nice find. If I am reading this properly then insulin spikes CAN occur just from non-calorie sweetners.

FoolontheHill
08-06-2008, 03:50 PM
ehh... I wouldn't make large conclusions based on one study, according to this it has some effects, but there were also about 5 studies I found saying that sucralose had no effects on blood sugar regulation, though usually it was used in combination with a meal and not in a fasted state like say someone sipping on diet soda to keep the hunger away.

TrueNorth
08-06-2008, 03:57 PM
Sugar disgestion starts in your mouth. The moment sugar hits your mucous membranes (lips), your body knows it, and starts releasing enzymes in your mouth to begin its digestion. It does this for alcohol as well, you can actually absorb alcohol right through your lips without ever swallowing it.

In experiment 2, the rats that ate glucose loaded yogurt didn't eat as much rat food after eating their yogurt premeal, so its not strange that they didn't gain as much weight as the sacchrain grp, because they just ate less.

In experiment 1, its the same as experiment 2. Yes, they all ate the same amount of calories, but, the saccharin yogurt has less calories in it, so the unsweet predicitive grp had to be eating more rat chow to equal the same amount of calories as the other 2 groups....so in a sense, they were eating more volume, and they put on weight.

I don't believe its the saccharin that is causing weight gain...but it could be a side effect, in that it makes the rats eat more cause they don't feel as full.

My $.02

NO HYPE
08-06-2008, 04:14 PM
Sugar disgestion starts in your mouth. The moment sugar hits your mucous membranes (lips), your body knows it, and starts releasing enzymes in your mouth to begin its digestion. It does this for alcohol as well, you can actually absorb alcohol right through your lips without ever swallowing it.

In experiment 2, the rats that ate glucose loaded yogurt didn't eat as much rat food after eating their yogurt premeal, so its not strange that they didn't gain as much weight as the sacchrain grp, because they just ate less.

In experiment 1, its the same as experiment 2. Yes, they all ate the same amount of calories, but, the saccharin yogurt has less calories in it, so the unsweet predicitive grp had to be eating more rat chow to equal the same amount of calories as the other 2 groups....so in a sense, they were eating more volume, and they put on weight.

I don't believe its the saccharin that is causing weight gain...but it could be a side effect, in that it makes the rats eat more cause they don't feel as full.

My $.02

Agreed.