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AKR
05-15-2008, 10:06 PM
Ok, let's say some stranger comes up to you and says, "Hey, um, not sure how to tell you this, but your parents didn't actually create you. You were actually created in a labratory and then given to what you call your parents when you developed into a baby. You were created by a scientist, and he sent me to tell you what really happened, and he said, if you believe this story and believe that he exists and created you, he will give you billions of dollars and let you hang out in his mansion in about 50 years. If you don't, though, he will hunt your ass down to torcher you for the rest of your life.

You, of course, ask if you can just go meet the guy. The stranger says, "no, you just have to believe." You ask if he can show you some sort of documents or video footage, or anything that could support his claims. He says no.

Then, another person comes up to you and says, "hey, you weren't actually created in a labratory. That's ridiculous. You were actually created by aliens and I've been sent here to tell you that if you believe in them, they'll give you a super awesome space ship before you die, and you can go hang out on their awesome planet forever. But....if you don't believe, u gonna get raped with one of those anal probes and hung out of their space ship by your testicals as they search the galaxy for other species to annoy." Once again, you ask for some proof, and they say that you just have to believe.

Then, you have hundreds of other people come up and tell you different scenarios, all of which have someone who will give you great things if you believe with no evidence, and punish you if you do not. Now, since they are all asking you to believe without proof, how do you go about making your decision? Do you believe in any of them? Do you believe none? Why?

DaCougarMech
05-15-2008, 10:10 PM
perfect example in which occam's razor is applicable

AKR
05-15-2008, 10:30 PM
perfect example in which occam's razor is applicable

Quit ruining this thread with logic, troll. This will not be tolerated!

Rune
05-15-2008, 10:45 PM
Couldn't I just lie to them.. or can they read my mind by some unknown means?

LunicaAshes
05-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Quit ruining this thread with logic, troll. This will not be tolerated!

GOD IS NOT LIKE A SCIENTIST! CAN'T YOU MAKE AN ANALOGY???!!!1!!23!grabblll!!1

That better? :D

bmy-
05-15-2008, 10:50 PM
Couldn't I just lie to them.. or can they read my mind by some unknown means?

x2.

LunicaAshes
05-15-2008, 11:05 PM
Couldn't I just lie to them.. or can they read my mind by some unknown means?


x2.

Well, according to a number of theists, "atheists should believe just in case."

Rune
05-15-2008, 11:28 PM
Well, according to a number of theists, "atheists should believe just in case."

well in their case I don't believe in an afterlife.. I do on the other hand believe in a 50 years from now, thats plausible.. and if it occurs I could be super ballin'.

AKR
05-16-2008, 07:49 AM
Couldn't I just lie to them.. or can they read my mind by some unknown means?

NO, SIR! You must genuinely believe.


well in their case I don't believe in an afterlife.. I do on the other hand believe in a 50 years from now, thats plausible.. and if it occurs I could be super ballin'.

Accepting plausibility is not actually believing. I believe it's plausible that someone randomly deposted a billion dollars in my back account this morning, but I don't believe they did.

Enso
05-16-2008, 08:01 AM
If they won't show you the person who made you, ask them where the laboratory is.

StartTheMachine
05-16-2008, 08:05 AM
If they won't show you the person who made you, ask them where the laboratory is.
It's in the sky, beyond what you can see.

Enso
05-16-2008, 08:10 AM
The sky :p Interesting. But the universe is everywhere and everything. You don't have to go anywhere to find it.

You came from the universe. Your parents just gave you your body.


/I do understand the premise of the OP though...and it does raise an interesting scenario

Rune
05-16-2008, 08:15 AM
Accepting plausibility is not actually believing. I believe it's plausible that someone randomly deposted a billion dollars in my back account this morning, but I don't believe they did.

By this logic it would I really don't believe in anything then... how about that. :(

HELIX35
05-16-2008, 08:16 AM
That scenario is one of the bigger reasons I'm agnostic. So, I'll continue to lead a good and moral life and if he still sends me to hell, then **** him, he doesn't deserve my faith anyway.

AKR
05-17-2008, 02:35 AM
If they won't show you the person who made you, ask them where the laboratory is.



You ask if he can show you some sort of documents or video footage, or anything that could support his claims. He says no.



By this logic it would I really don't believe in anything then... how about that. :(

No billion dollars or pimp rides in the space crafts for you!





So, where are all of the religious people? Are they having a hard time deciding which one to choose, if any, without seeing any evidence? Why? You all make it sound so easy when it comes to choosing a religion through faith. Why are you having trouble with this scenario?

cj_hackett
05-17-2008, 07:13 AM
i would believe in the space alien scenario because anal probes would definitely be hell. Besides, who would want to live in a world without space aliens? It would just be sad.

AKR
05-17-2008, 07:35 AM
i would believe in the space alien scenario because anal probes would definitely be hell. Besides, who would want to live in a world without space aliens? It would just be sad.

So you would just choose based on what makes you feel good? Would you say it was wrong if someone chose another scenario because they were more afraid of the other possible consequences and more attracted to other possible benefits? Or wrong if they chose none? Further yet, would you actually believe? I'm teling you now, seriously, if you believe in that scenario, you will escape anal probage and dangling by your nutz, and you will have fun on their alien planet. So, do you now actually know this is true?

grup910
05-17-2008, 07:37 AM
Which one allows me to feel "special" and morally superior to the people who don't believe it? That's the one I would believe in, as long as my parents also believed it. One that allowed me to feel superior in exactly the same way but that my parents didn't believe would be for people with dark colored skin in other countries who speak funny sounding languages, and would obviously be wrong.

:p

drew101
05-17-2008, 09:40 PM
It is best to believe only the best hope.

AKR
05-17-2008, 10:38 PM
It is best to believe only the best hope.

What does that even mean?

Wintermule
05-17-2008, 10:56 PM
I'd go with the one who would protect me from the torture and the buttrape with an anal probe.

:)

It is a good hypothetical scenario. Unfortunately, we all know that no one is going to really listen to it. Because, you know, their God is totally right. They just know it.

shadowwalker021
05-17-2008, 11:38 PM
hay guise, just dropping in to praise jebus christ and to tell all of you that your going to hell. lolz k bye :D

shadowwalker021
05-17-2008, 11:42 PM
It is best to believe only the best hope.

why? so you're saying that only good things can be in store for us? or are you saying that regardless of what REALLY is gonna happen, it's best to fool ourselves into believing hopeful things to make us happy????

because I'm really starting to believe it's the second one. nobody is really that ****ing stupid to believe in this complete fairytale bull**** that religion spews. pleaaaaaase tell me it's the 2nd one because I feel like Jim Carry in 'The Truman Show' AND I'M GOING INSANE, am I really the only sane person on this earth?

iliketodoit
05-17-2008, 11:50 PM
I know! I know!

You go with whichever hypothetical situation your parents raised you with OR you go with whichever hypothetical situation is most popular in the area you were brought up in.

What do I win?

shadowwalker021
05-18-2008, 12:16 AM
I know! I know!

You go with whichever hypothetical situation your parents raised you with OR you go with whichever hypothetical situation is most popular in the area you were brought up in.

What do I win?

There are more ways to religion besides indoctrination of course. Although it probably does amount for most of the religious.

AKR
05-18-2008, 12:44 AM
I know! I know!

You go with whichever hypothetical situation your parents raised you with OR you go with whichever hypothetical situation is most popular in the area you were brought up in.

What do I win?

A coconut.

Ryall
05-18-2008, 12:48 PM
What if one of those people coming up to you didn't say no? Would that change the situation? Would you change your opinion and perspective on what to believe then?

God shows us himself all the time. Every time you step outside, you see what He has created. Me, you, the other 6 billion people on the earth - He created all of this. And over all of that, He's given you the Bible. His holy Word.

Now, whether you want to listen to His evidence or not, that's one thing. But to say He didn't provide any proof of Himself at all is foolish. You care to explain how this entire world has come into place from a spontaneous explosion (which also came from nothing, by the way)?

RelentlessChaos
05-18-2008, 01:20 PM
Well, according to a number of theists, "atheists should believe just in case."

and thats the problem. people start to "beleive" out of fear. Rather than anything else. Thats what it was for me. I just got sick of it.

Rune
05-18-2008, 01:24 PM
You care to explain how this entire world has come into place from a spontaneous explosion (which also came from nothing, by the way)?

There was no explosion, and it wasn't nothing... it was a quantum singularity, if your going to try to mock something make sure you understand it before you begin.

AKR
05-18-2008, 08:00 PM
What if one of those people coming up to you didn't say no? Would that change the situation? Would you change your opinion and perspective on what to believe then?


Didn't say "no" about what? Showing me evidence? This argument is about those who say you can't believe on evidence; only faith.




God shows us himself all the time. Every time you step outside, you see what He has created. Me, you, the other 6 billion people on the earth - He created all of this. And over all of that, He's given you the Bible. His holy Word.


That's pretty weak. You're basically saying, "stuff exists, therefore my god created it." But can't anyone say basically the same thing? "Stuff exists; therefore, another god other than ryall's god created it." It's no more or less believable. That would be like one of those people coming up to me and saying, "well, you exist don't you, you idiot? That's proof that aliens created you!" That would be dumb as ****.




Now, whether you want to listen to His evidence or not, that's one thing. But to say He didn't provide any proof of Himself at all is foolish. You care to explain how this entire world has come into place from a spontaneous explosion (which also came from nothing, by the way)?

No, you're being foolish by making two huge assumptions. One, that you know that stuff needs a creator, but that creator doesn't need a creator, and two, that it was your god specifically that created things. I don't have to explain how the world came into existance. That's a false dichotomy; even if the big bang isn't true (which isn't even as you unintelligently describe it, as Rune points out), it doesn't default to your god created it. That's stupid.

And again, this thread is just about people who say you must believe on faith and nothing else. That was the ONLY point to this thread, and it pisses me off when people like you can't even stay on topic and respect a hypothetical question. You have to bend it around to fit your agenda. Even then, you fall flat on your face.