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View Full Version : Not gaining weight- increase cals or decrease cardio?



jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 06:53 AM
Which is better? An increase in energy intake (food) or a decrease in expenditure? Or both?

Vitamin C
03-28-2008, 07:01 AM
I'd say increase food intake.

Short story (for reasoning), I bulked for 6 months once with zero cardio and when I started cutting I had to rebuild my cardio capacity and it sucked.

Keep the cardio going, just eat more :D

GeneRebel
03-28-2008, 07:19 AM
Increase cals; start the week by eating 300cals more, about half of it going to carbs, the rest going to fats. As for reducing cardio, it really depends on how much cardio you're actually doing now. For bulking, I'd recommend no more than 2 sessions of HIIT per week.

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 07:20 AM
How much cardio do you do?

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 07:21 AM
Increase cals; start the week by eating 300cals more, about half of it going to carbs, the rest going to fats. As for reducing cardio, it really depends on how much cardio you're actually doing now. For bulking, I'd recommend no more than 2 sessions of HIIT per week.

I'm doing 45 minutes of low intensity cardio (walking 3 mph on treadmill) after my workouts 4x a week.

Too much? I'm also "reverse dieting" right now, so I was told to keep my cardio at pre-contest frequency/amounts as I increase calories and carbs. It's just that my weight actually dropped further until recently where it stabilized at 150! I don't want to rebound and gain fat back, but at the same time, my diet is going to waste if I'm just burning everything off and almost overtraining by doing so much cardio. I was thinking of dropping it down to 30 min 4x a week, low intensity AND increase cals and see if that does anything...

The Solution
03-28-2008, 07:28 AM
Which is better? An increase in energy intake (food) or a decrease in expenditure? Or both?

Both, doing cardio will just negate the extra food you take in unless ur still maintain a surplus of calories,

keep ur cardio down and up the cals, if your going to keep the cardio make sure your taking in more then what your burning, its simple..

ive been bulking on doing cardio and gained 30 lbs.

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 07:35 AM
Both, doing cardio will just negate the extra food you take in unless ur still maintain a surplus of calories,

keep ur cardio down and up the cals, if your going to keep the cardio make sure your taking in more then what your burning, its simple..

ive been bulking on doing cardio and gained 30 lbs.

Yeah, I may in fact do both.

I won't cut cardio out completely though- it has its benefits, but I think I'm still doing too much, or eating too little. I'll drop a session of cardio next week, or maybe cut each session by 15 minutes and increase my cals by 300. I guess it's just about trial and error, and not following some fixed plan.

On a side note though, would it be terrible if I purposely did more cardio just so I could eat more calories on a daily basis? Cuz I love to eat, and wouldn't mind putting in the extra time to burn cals..lol. I just don't want it intefering with recovery...but then again, if I'm eating enough...?

Aindreas
03-28-2008, 07:37 AM
IMO do fewer sessions of shorter, more high intensity cardio and keep cals high. It's good for nutrient partitioning, but obviously too much of anything can be counterproductive.

The Solution
03-28-2008, 07:38 AM
.

On a side note though, would it be terrible if I purposely did more cardio just so I could eat more calories on a daily basis? Cuz I love to eat, and wouldn't mind putting in the extra time to burn cals..lol. I just don't want it intefering with recovery...but then again, if I'm eating enough...?

That sounds like a case of a disorder if you ask me,
give your body food let it recover and grow, if you do put on a bit of fat youll know its too much and to lower the cals, everything you take in youll just turn to muscle if you keep working out hard.

Don't stress the little things, get out there and find what your body needs

GeneRebel
03-28-2008, 08:02 AM
IMO do fewer sessions of shorter, more high intensity cardio and keep cals high. It's good for nutrient partitioning, but obviously too much of anything can be counterproductive.

x2. Two sessions of HIIT (15-20mins each) per week can go a long way in preventing fat gain, but isn't frequent enough to seriously affect gains. 4x cardio 45mins each is overdoing it imo.

A.J.PT
03-28-2008, 08:19 AM
Yeah, I may in fact do both.

I won't cut cardio out completely though- it has its benefits, but I think I'm still doing too much, or eating too little. I'll drop a session of cardio next week, or maybe cut each session by 15 minutes and increase my cals by 300. I guess it's just about trial and error, and not following some fixed plan.

On a side note though, would it be terrible if I purposely did more cardio just so I could eat more calories on a daily basis? Cuz I love to eat, and wouldn't mind putting in the extra time to burn cals..lol. I just don't want it intefering with recovery...but then again, if I'm eating enough...?

if you think like this to much your going to find yourself heading down a bad dangerous road. it doesn't matter how much food you feed yourself...there comes a point where every body needs proper time to recover (not just calories) humans are not machines.

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 08:30 AM
if you think like this to much your going to find yourself heading down a bad dangerous road. it doesn't matter how much food you feed yourself...there comes a point where every body needs proper time to recover (not just calories) humans are not machines.

Understood.

I'm just having a tough time coming out of that whole pre-contest, low bodyfat, "I need to keep my abs" and being afraid to eat mentality. I was once a guy in decent shape who could rep out 405 on deads, rep 245 on bench, and squat with 275 and perfect form, and now I'm lean, but weak as hell and stuck in this wierd mindset.

Just looking for some support that's all.

Definitelynotme
03-28-2008, 08:41 AM
i'd personally reduce the cardio.

cardio tends to tire me out too much for weight training as it depletes glycogen and generally wears out my joints.

ProGoal
03-28-2008, 09:13 AM
99% DIET..cardio is nothing

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 09:28 AM
99% DIET..cardio is nothing

Thanks man. I'm increasing the cals next week.

All this cardio does make my legs sore all the time and it affects my overall energy levels. I'm cutting it down as well.

I'll cut cardio and increase cals until my weight starts to increase. Then I will adjust and monitor fat gains/energy/strength on a weekly basis and adjust when I need to. I gotta GROW!

ProGoal
03-28-2008, 09:31 AM
when i compete, i do cardio3 weeks before just to try and get some more striations and lose water thats it...I can get to 5% without it

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 09:54 AM
when i compete, i do cardio3 weeks before just to try and get some more striations and lose water thats it...I can get to 5% without it

Good to know. You must have great genetics.

The Solution
03-28-2008, 10:05 AM
To overcome the disorder, you got to start somewhere, start reducing and keep eating like you are, your body will need and utilize the calories effectivly, give it a run .. sure you might add a bit of fat, abs wont make or break you, if you squat heavy, deadlift heavy, and do all your complex's heavy you hitting your abs strongr then you think.

There is a few articles on t-nation.com that shows just by lifting heavy and a clean diet your abs will show. just get it done

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 10:14 AM
To overcome the disorder, you got to start somewhere, start reducing and keep eating like you are, your body will need and utilize the calories effectivly, give it a run .. sure you might add a bit of fat, abs wont make or break you, if you squat heavy, deadlift heavy, and do all your complex's heavy you hitting your abs strongr then you think.

There is a few articles on t-nation.com that shows just by lifting heavy and a clean diet your abs will show. just get it done

Yeah, I dunno if you've read my journal or not over in Derek's section, but I'm trying my best. I made a really good plan which I'm following. My mind is just having trouble adjusting and I almost have some wierd fear of fat now.

Dieting really did a number on my mindset...I used to eat carefreely and now I stress alot about it...I dunno, I'll fix it.

Distance
03-28-2008, 10:34 AM
I'm sorry but I can't believe that you all are saying that 45 minutes of walking at 3mph is too much and will inhibit recovery, etc. Have humans really become that lazy that we see a little bit of walking a few times a week as wrong? Are we so advanced that we now should only be active for 2 hours a day, compared to our ancestors who were active for 2-3 times that long?

If your goal is to gain weight, eat more than you expend. If you also want to say physically fit, do cardio and keep the previous in mind.

Seeing cardio as an enemy to weight gain is just as much a disorder as seeing food as an enemy to weight loss.

buckeye7
03-28-2008, 10:47 AM
I'm sorry but I can't believe that you all are saying that 45 minutes of walking at 3mph is too much and will inhibit recovery, etc. Have humans really become that lazy that we see a little bit of walking a few times a week as wrong? Are we so advanced that we now should only be active for 2 hours a day, compared to our ancestors who were active for 2-3 times that long?

If your goal is to gain weight, eat more than you expend. If you also want to say physically fit, do cardio and keep the previous in mind.

Seeing cardio as an enemy to weight gain is just as much a disorder as seeing food as an enemy to weight loss.
i'll agree with this post but my counter is that when you're doing all of these compound lifts such as squat, deadlift, etc. these are already putting a lot of stress on your body and your body is burning a lot of cals so if you do a lot of cadio on top of this, there comes a point where it could be counterproductive to your goals of wanting to gain weight.

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 10:49 AM
I'm sorry but I can't believe that you all are saying that 45 minutes of walking at 3mph is too much and will inhibit recovery, etc. Have humans really become that lazy that we see a little bit of walking a few times a week as wrong? Are we so advanced that we now should only be active for 2 hours a day, compared to our ancestors who were active for 2-3 times that long?

If your goal is to gain weight, eat more than you expend. If you also want to say physically fit, do cardio and keep the previous in mind.

Seeing cardio as an enemy to weight gain is just as much a disorder as seeing food as an enemy to weight loss.

I agree most with this statement. I mean, it's not like I'm running 10 miles a day. I will decrease cardio a tiny bit and increase cals like I said above. We'll see how this affects me.

Captain Sagara
03-28-2008, 11:00 AM
I agree most with this statement. I mean, it's not like I'm running 10 miles a day. I will decrease cardio a tiny bit and increase cals like I said above. We'll see how this affects me.

It's not the freaking cardio that it's holding you back,low intensity cardio of 45 minutes burns slightly 300 calories and sorry to be rude but it's the starving you putting yourself throught,it's the freaking LACK OF CALORIES,i told you and tell you again up those calories you're doing yourself more harm then good,you're not gonna freaking REBOUND you're not so low in bf% that your body is working against you for you to rebound,it's only when you reach 6% or lower...You're in the right road for an eating disorder,just run from that bro,start eating and stop obsessing with fat gains,ultra leaness and the ABZZZZ...

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 11:06 AM
It's not the freaking cardio that it's holding you back,low intensity cardio of 45 minutes burns slightly 300 calories and sorry to be rude but it's the starving you putting yourself throught,it's the freaking LACK OF CALORIES,i told you and tell you again up those calories you're doing yourself more harm then good,you're not gonna freaking REBOUND you're not so low in bf% that your body is working against you for you to rebound,it's only when you reach 6% or lower...You're in the right road for an eating disorder,just run from that bro,start eating and stop obsessing with fat gains,ultra leaness and the ABZZZZ...

How much should I up it by then? or, how many total cals do you think I should be eating?

Captain Sagara
03-28-2008, 11:11 AM
How much should I up it by then? or, how many total cals do you think I should be eating?

First if you wanna clean bulk with minimal fat gains(which you want very much),Keep the cardio,keep the 45 minutes low intensity,just don't do it after weights because you're denying yourself a great time frame to grow...Find what you spent on cardio+weights+activitie level+basal and start eating at maintainance,keep high protein+ moderate fats and low to moderate carbs for now and keep yourself on those cals for 3 weeks,then go from there with results,you're either then lower or up your calories...

jackedrabbit
03-28-2008, 11:54 AM
First if you wanna clean bulk with minimal fat gains(which you want very much),Keep the cardio,keep the 45 minutes low intensity,just don't do it after weights because you're denying yourself a great time frame to grow...Find what you spent on cardio+weights+activitie level+basal and start eating at maintainance,keep high protein+ moderate fats and low to moderate carbs for now and keep yourself on those cals for 3 weeks,then go from there with results,you're either then lower or up your calories...

Thanks man. I know you are right...just tough for me to hear it.

The Solution
03-28-2008, 01:12 PM
Rabbit you said your working with Derek as well, he will suggest having complete meals throughout the whole day

find your calorie needs you need for the day.. divide it by the meals you take in say 6

and split it up

i currently do about 75g of carbs (that goes down throughout the day)
Around 30-40g of protein (starts high and goes down throughout the day)
and fat stays at about 15-20g per meal

Keeping insulin controlled at all times throughout the day will keep you lean, and even if you are having fat post-workout and cabrs before bed do not stress, you will thank your body in the long run rabbit.

ive been in ur boots too, read the into in my log on the journey to mass, i was once eating 800 cals a day and looked like a cancer paitent ( i think the top of page 6 or 7 in my log has my picture from 1 year ago at 125) look at me now, i overcame it.. you can too

zkid002
03-28-2008, 01:47 PM
Both, doing cardio will just negate the extra food you take in unless ur still maintain a surplus of calories,

keep ur cardio down and up the cals, if your going to keep the cardio make sure your taking in more then what your burning, its simple..

ive been bulking on doing cardio and gained 30 lbs.

Bob, whats your cardio plan?..

I do about 10 min of cardio after my sessions, sound alright?

The Solution
03-28-2008, 01:53 PM
Bob, whats your cardio plan?..

I do about 10 min of cardio after my sessions, sound alright?

PM Me, lets not get this thread O/T