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jtroster
03-27-2008, 07:07 AM
Soy: What's the Big Deal? (http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/soy_whats_the_big_deal)

pict
03-27-2008, 07:48 AM
I have been reading labels at the grocery store, for years. Soy is now an ingredient in a vast, and varied, assortment of foods.

I avoid as much soy as possible, when purchasing food. I lump it in with corn syrup. It seems to be a "cheap" alternative to the way "food stuffs" used to be.

I don't recall the vast herds of fatties, roaming the American continent when I was a kid (circa late '60's). I grew up in an urban area, so I don't buy the whole people "worked harder back then" argument. I do physical work and I see plenty of "fatties" every where. I don't remember the grown up males, being quite so "girlie" back in the day either (thank you, Phil Donahue).

I do have my suspicions, it's in the food we eat, and the water we drink. Hormones and anti-biotics in meat, I live in cattle country, and next to commercial chicken farms. I know whats in the feed. Soy in your pasta, corn syrup instead of sugar, in almost every thing.

I'll do my best to avoid things that weren't available in the past. I try to stick to grass fed beef, organic/locally grown produce, raw milk, home raised chicken/eggs.

Please eat tofu, and gobble soy if you trust it. I may be wrong. I'll just hold off for a while longer.

PROT
03-27-2008, 08:14 AM
I have been reading labels at the grocery store, for years. Soy is now an ingredient in a vast, and varied, assortment of foods.

I avoid as much soy as possible, when purchasing food. I lump it in with corn syrup. It seems to be a "cheap" alternative to the way "food stuffs" used to be.

I don't recall the vast herds of fatties, roaming the American continent when I was a kid (circa late '60's). I grew up in an urban area, so I don't buy the whole people "worked harder back then" argument. I do physical work and I see plenty of "fatties" every where. I don't remember the grown up males, being quite so "girlie" back in the day either (thank you, Phil Donahue).

I do have my suspicions, it's in the food we eat, and the water we drink. Hormones and anti-biotics in meat, I live in cattle country, and next to commercial chicken farms. I know whats in the feed. Soy in your pasta, corn syrup instead of sugar, in almost every thing.

I'll do my best to avoid things that weren't available in the past. I try to stick to grass fed beef, organic/locally grown produce, raw milk, home raised chicken/eggs.

Please eat tofu, and gobble soy if you trust it. I may be wrong. I'll just hold off for a while longer.

Archer, Daniels Midland, the farm conglomerate actually gets subsidies to grow corn and soy and they are both poisoning us. High fructose corn syrup is rapidly turning the nation diabetic and soy is destroying masculinity.

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

FitIron
03-27-2008, 08:48 AM
From a bodybuilding perspective, I would never take a soy protein isolate. Even though there is research that suggest that there are no adverse reactions, there is much more research that indicates SPI, is detrimental to your health...

The Testo Nation article double-talks itself...


In this paragraph they explain that the supplement given, is a MIX of different proteins.

In this study, the researchers provided daily supplements containing 50 grams of a variety of proteins ? either soy concentrate, soy isolate, a soy isolate/whey blend, or a whey blend. .

In this paragraph, reference is made to a significant increase in mass. If so that is likely because of the other proteins involved

Twenty participants added these supplements, in conjunction with a resistance training program. At the end of the three months, a significant increase in muscle mass was noticed with all of the protein supplemented groups. Interestingly, no significant differences were found among Testosterone, body fat, or body weight between the groups..

While the first paragraph mentions a protein mix, here the author atributes success to SOY, making no reference to the other invovled proteins.

In the end, the authors concluded that 12 weeks of soy protein supplementation (50 grams per day) was as effective as the other protein types when it comes to boosting muscle mass during a strength training program.

Link for Soy

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tietge7.htm


Additionally,

One of the primary reasons WPI has been so successful as a supplement is in it's ability to help maintain a positive nitrogen balance. Soy has a BV rating of approx 74. That is the lowest of all proteins.

Throw in the fact that it is also known to soften bones, and contribute to the condition of gynomastasia it is beyond me why someone, especially a bodybuilder would ever use a SPI.....

lukamar
03-27-2008, 11:35 AM
Archer, Daniels Midland, the farm conglomerate actually gets subsidies to grow corn and soy and they are both poisoning us. High fructose corn syrup is rapidly turning the nation diabetic and soy is destroying masculinity.



I don't agree with you all the time but I do here.

The only soy products that seem not to cause problems are Fermented ones like Soy sauce, Miso and Tofu. I've cut them out of my diet just in case.

They even make soy based insecticides and insect repellents (it works better than Deet) Mmm Mmmm Good..:(

phikappa
03-27-2008, 12:37 PM
FWIW...

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA326575

just.demi
03-27-2008, 01:09 PM
Interesting article; however I don't even trust small doses of soy on a daily basis...but that's just me. Being a vegetarian, I can tell you I avoid most soy products except for tempeh which uses fermented soybeans. Luckily I eat dairy, or I'd be in trouble.

For protein, I eat Seitan (known as wheat meat) which comes form what gluten. It actually has more protein than tofu.

FitIron
03-27-2008, 01:29 PM
Interesting article; however I don't even trust small doses of soy on a daily basis...but that's just me. Being a vegetarian, I can tell you I avoid most soy products except for tempeh which uses fermented soybeans. Luckily I eat dairy, or I'd be in trouble.

For protein, I eat Seitan (known as wheat meat) which comes form what gluten. It actually has more protein than tofu.

Totally agree with you.

While there may not be direct clinical studies or proof that soy beans DO NOT cause or hender certain bodily functions. There is also NO proof that they do not.

IMO there are too many remaining questions that have not been answered.

Any positive soy research to date is merely subjective opinion.

freebirdmac
03-27-2008, 01:34 PM
I have soy milk every day. I'm also hypothyroid. From personal experience I can tell you it's had zero effect on my thyroid panels nor has it affected my menstrual cycle or cystic breasts. My docs are in complete agreement that there is no reason to avoid consumption.

Minotaur
03-27-2008, 02:01 PM
I just don't discuss this anymore; all I will say is that I won't touch soy with a 10 foot pole, if at all possible. I am on thyroid replacement and I'm not going to add another variable into the equation, when I'm doing very well without soy.

However, what someone else does is on them. The articles pro and con are out there. If anyone wants to eat soy or red Georgia clay and can justify it, be my guest. As long as you don't slip me a soy or Georgia clay mickey we can still be friends.

IronIc
03-27-2008, 02:03 PM
I am using soy pp because ... well it tastes alot better than whey :D Is that a bad reason? :o lol

PROT
03-27-2008, 02:10 PM
I have soy milk every day. I'm also hypothyroid. From personal experience I can tell you it's had zero effect on my thyroid panels nor has it affected my menstrual cycle or cystic breasts. My docs are in complete agreement that there is no reason to avoid consumption.


Whether this applies to adults is unknown but I would guess that if soy is harmful to infants that its harmful to adults. There has even been a study showing tofu consumption shrinks the human brain. I put in this link before and I'll repeat it because its important to understand the dangers of soy.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

BTW I would never ask a doctor about nutrition unless I actually was sure they knew anything...90+ % do not.

freebirdmac
03-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Whether this applies to adults is unknown but I would guess that if soy is harmful to infants that its harmful to adults. There has even been a study showing tofu consumption shrinks the human brain. I put in this link before and I'll repeat it because its important to understand the dangers of soy.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

BTW I would never ask a doctor about nutrition unless I actually was sure they knew anything...90+ % do not.

You will not change my mind as I will not change yours. Best to leave it at that.

LR3
03-27-2008, 04:06 PM
i was vegetarian for 3 years and supplemented exclusively with soy protein, and put on good mass. i had no issue with it.

xMichaelx
03-27-2008, 04:43 PM
I am using soy pp because ... well it tastes alot better than whey :D Is that a bad reason? :o lol

No, that's a fine reason -- that's why I prefer soy milk to regular milk. Hasn't killed me yet (of course, neither has diet soda, splenda, or beef, to name 3 other products I regularly ingest that folks have said, "ZOMG1 that's gonna kill you/give you cancer/shrink your balls!!!")

JOHN GARGANI
03-28-2008, 08:07 AM
Archer, Daniels Midland, the farm conglomerate actually gets subsidies to grow corn and soy and they are both poisoning us. High fructose corn syrup is rapidly turning the nation diabetic and soy is destroying masculinity.

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

hmmmm, how do I answer your post, PROT without "running up" my post count??


You are a prognosticator of gloom and doom....yet, inexplicably, every single year, the average life age expectancy goes up in this country.....

in spite of all of our perilous ways!


I read the whole article that JT linked and it was very interesting, and in the end, basically, what they were saying was: Moderation in all things.

myself, personally, I avoid Soy, however, I am sure, occasionally, it won't kill me, nor the hundreds of other accused assasins that we have to face down every day of our dangerous lives! LOL....

PROT
03-28-2008, 09:40 AM
hmmmm, how do I answer your post, PROT without "running up" my post count??


You are a prognosticator of gloom and doom....yet, inexplicably, every single year, the average life age expectancy goes up in this country.....

in spite of all of our perilous ways!


I read the whole article that JT linked and it was very interesting, and in the end, basically, what they were saying was: Moderation in all things.

myself, personally, I avoid Soy, however, I am sure, occasionally, it won't kill me, nor the hundreds of other accused assasins that we have to face down every day of our dangerous lives! LOL....

Modern life is filled with choices about what we do. A couple of years ago I was reading a thread about soy on another site when a HRT doctor recommended the site I referenced. After reading various articles on it and researching further on the dangers of soy, I made a decision to limit the soy I ingested. It was an informed choice and I do not eliminate all soy as its improbable I could. I do, however, use a canola mayonaise, cook with coconut oil, and check labels to make sure soy is minimized. John Gargani says he avoids soy, but why?

There are many dangerous substances in modern life and everyday you can read about new discoveries online or in newspapers. Today there is an article on the pesticide link to Parkinsons disease. I read a lot and I inform myself as well as possible. The pupose of this thread and others is to elicit responses on things of interest. It often sounds like doom and gloom because we want to avoid uncomfortable information. We have a desire to be in control and do what we want. So people continue smoking tobacco, using alcohol, and using drugs that are not safe..mostly prescriptive drugs. We have hard choices about foods and information is good. I doubt Gargani went to the site I referenced after reading the article he read.