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Clif
03-20-2008, 07:21 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

fitnessman
03-20-2008, 07:26 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

Change Doctors.

doofusdave
03-20-2008, 07:35 AM
It's weird...I mentioned to my Dr. about taking whey as a supplement and he just shook his head and told me I was wasting my money. Wtf? Is that what they're teaching in medical school these days?

bulldog71
03-20-2008, 07:37 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

What a c@ckmaster! He's freaking retard. I just went to the dr. for a sinus infection and was prescribed some anitbiotics. She said that if I started to notice some lower back pain, then cut back my protein until I'm off the meds. Apparently it can get tough on the kidneys/live(I don't remember which one, now! lol) processing all of the protein and the meds. Tell him to lick your ball$ and do some damned bloodwork! Or, get a new MD. If he doesn't want to help you monitor it and stay healthy, report him to the AMA or the regional licensing organization. That'll wake his lame self up!

Minotaur
03-20-2008, 07:56 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment,

Some things are best left unsaid and unasked.

Minotaur
03-20-2008, 07:59 AM
Apparently it can get tough on the kidneys/live(I don't remember which one, now! lol) processing all of the protein and the meds.

It's the kidneys that would be at risk.

BUT! Only if there is pre-existing kidney disease. People with kidney disease are told to refrain from protein as much as possible. There is NO evidence or study implicating protein as hard on the kidneys. And as far as the liver, that's an internet meme, just like the "can't digest more than 30g of protein at a time" meme. That all came from outer space somewhere.

bulldog71
03-20-2008, 08:03 AM
It's the kidneys that would be at risk.

BUT! Only if there is pre-existing kidney disease. People with kidney disease are told to refrain from protein as much as possible. There is NO evidence or study implicating protein as hard on the kidneys. And as far as the liver, that's an internet meme, just like the "can't digest more than 30g of protein at a time" meme. That all came from outer space somewhere.

She just told me that the anti's were tough on the kidneys and if I felt any tenderness or discomfort to cut back on the protein until I'm done with the anti's and then I could go back to business as usual. She was more worried about the meds causing a problem with them than the protein. When I told her I drink a gallon or two of water a day, she told me that I should have no problems. I couldn't remember if it was kidneys or liver. But it is definitely kidneys.

Minotaur
03-20-2008, 08:12 AM
Antibiotics wreak havoc on your intestinal flora. I'm not a doctor (but I like to play doctor :D), but I've never heard of them affecting the kidneys. Other meds can be hard on the liver. Metformin for example. Not supposed to drink while on metformin.

I think doctors freak out over the protein/kidneys thing because higher protein and even mild dehydraton can raise BUN and creatinine levels on a lab report. And if you're a weightlifter and take extra protein... they right away think renal failure. :rolleyes:

It's a false observation... like "spontaneous generation". People in the Middle Ages believed mice came from grain because mice were always found in grain stores.

taf1968
03-20-2008, 08:17 AM
Wow . . . I'd agree with changing docs, but it sounds like your options are limited. Not sure what to recommend. Is there a decent trainer in your area that you trust who can help you? Agree that from everything I have heard, the protein being hard on kidneys theory is pretty much only a concern for people with kidney issues already.

My family doc is pretty good overall, but he's about 150 lbs soaking wet. I wouldn't trust him with any advice on lifting or training-related diet. All he needs to be concerned with are my blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. As long as my "vitals" are in line I will trust how I look and feel.

ironwill2008
03-20-2008, 08:19 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

It's been my experience that, in general, doctors know little about nutrition, let alone sports supplements. As Minotaur stated, there is no evidence showing high protein intake will damage healthy kidneys. Any doctor who says otherwise would never see me again. I don't think very many med schools even require nutrition classes. As far as some of these other supps go, I don't know what to tell you. Being REALLY skeptical of the claims of most of the stuff on the market, I'd suggest maybe picking out one or two, and giving them a fair trial. If you try a whole bunch of stuff at once, you'll have a hard time figuring out if anything works for you. I might also add that the best supplements I've found are squats and food!

PROT
03-20-2008, 08:38 AM
It's been my experience that, in general, doctors know little about nutrition, let alone sports supplements. As Minotaur stated, there is no evidence showing high protein intake will damage healthy kidneys. Any doctor who says otherwise would never see me again. I don't think very many med schools even require nutrition classes. As far as some of these other supps go, I don't know what to tell you. Being REALLY skeptical of the claims of most of the stuff on the market, I'd suggest maybe picking out one or two, and giving them a fair trial. If you try a whole bunch of stuff at once, you'll have a hard time figuring out if anything works for you. I might also add that the best supplements I've found are squats and food!

Never seek nutrional advice from a doctor or nutritionist. Their advice will be totally incorrect and scientifically out of date. I went to a class on "herbal medicine " given by a pharmacist last week and he was totally off on all his advice. These people know prescription drugs and thats it.

If you are taking antibiotics you need a good probiotic with it to keep your health. I went through a terrible bout of clostridium dificil overgrowth after being prescribed an antibiotic . When I told the doctor he tried to deny the causation even though I pointed out that the class of antibiotics he prescribed were responsible for 70% of c dificil infections according to Tabers Medical dictionary. When I had high blood pressure and suffered side effects from a med the doctor said that was impossible. I told him the insert stated that it was a side effect as did the pharmacist. I alleviate my problems naturally now, seeking real solutions instead of going to the medical community for poisonous drugs. I would only consult a physician for a broken bone. Anything else I just dont trust them. They are profit motivated and drug company owned. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the USA who die of medical errors ever year. I choose to live a healthy lifestyle and avoid doctors.

bodyhard
03-20-2008, 09:05 AM
Not to knock doctors as their job, experience. knowledge is inimitable to say the least, but it is hard to just listen to one as they all seem to have different opinions just like anything else.

I think sports doctors are best suited to deal with our type of situations and can better understand what we are trying to achieve.

ntrllftr
03-20-2008, 09:13 AM
I had a doctor tell me that I had gyno. I looked at him and said from what?
He gave me a "you know what I mean look" I told him that he was an idiot and walked out.

Moral of my little story: there has to be another doctor.

lukamar
03-20-2008, 09:32 AM
I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

Doctors don't work with supplements and probably few know much about them. I would think that he is concerned about your liver function more than anything. Hep plays havoc with your liver as we all know but it can also affect your kidney function as well. He's probably just looking out for what he sees as your best interest.

One nice thing about the US, this does not apply to Canada, is that you can walk into a lab and order your own tests which you pay for. Go have a liver function with bilirubin and renal function done and that way you know what's going on. Bilirubin does not have a normal range attached so your doc may have to tell you about that result. If the tests come back with poor results you can go to your doctor and have him help you. If they are normal you don't have to worry but because of your condition it would be a good idea to do the testing yearly.

keith1958
03-20-2008, 09:37 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.


I had Hep c once and still have antibodies not the disease. I also got it overseas. I believe like hep c hep a is hard on your liver. So anything that hurts the liver would not be good since your liver has been assaulted already. I do not think that includes whey. Animal Pump, Storm, and Torrent might be a different thing. You would have to read whats in them and how they are processed and how they work to be sure.

Most doctors are completely clueless on supplements and even vitamins for that matter. I am not trying to sell anything but I do know a friend of mine that is a nutritionist that may be able to help you. He is very good. But like all things he isn't free. Good luck.

Cgb6810
03-20-2008, 10:52 AM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

I get a similar response from my family doc. He does not like me taking protein supplements (let alone all of the other supps I take I dont tell him about). He believes they'e hard on the liver.

You say you live in a small area so this may not work for you. But, I found a sports/alternative medicine kind of Doctor. He used to lift weights, now he runs triathelons. Im very open with everything I do, and he doesn't judge at all. He just recommends the right supps to keep me going. I've sent several of my BB friends his way and they all work well with him.

For additional liver support you can take milk thistle. Its been proven to lower liver enzymes. I dont know how this will work with Hep (A) though.

Spiceygamble
03-20-2008, 12:16 PM
Not to knock doctors as their job, experience. knowledge is inimitable to say the least, but it is hard to just listen to one as they all seem to have different opinions just like anything else.

I think sports doctors are best suited to deal with our type of situations and can better understand what we are trying to achieve.

You beat me to it....
Ver Batum.

JD1213
03-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I think sports doctors are best suited to deal with our type of situations and can better understand what we are trying to achieve.

xx2

A trip to a nearby city that has a Doctor practicing Sports medicine would be a worth while trip.

asmolenski
03-20-2008, 01:22 PM
Most docs dont know anything about supplements, nutrition or fitness. The ones I work with are overweight, eat a bunch of crap and couldn't break a sweat in the gym if their life depended on it. I have been out of medical school for over 10 years and I dont know what they are teaching these days but everything I know about this stuff I had to teach myself.

In general the stuff you buy at the local vitamin store is pretty harmless as long as you dont go insane with the amount you take. I dont worry about high protein diets unless you have advanced liver or kidney disease in which case supplements would be the least of your concerns. Now prescription drugs and illegal substances like anabolic steroids are a whole nother animal....

You dont need a doctor to monitor your labs - here is a thread that was sarted by my friend Mike - you pay online for the tests you want and then go to a local lab with the slip and they run whatever you want. If you have abnormal results then find a doctor you trust. Good Luck.


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7379721

atoybbacs
03-20-2008, 02:41 PM
Some things are best left unsaid and unasked. X2........

Joe Go
03-20-2008, 03:06 PM
?any suggestions, I ask my doctor if he could help me monitor my supplements regiment, he said no! He strongly recommend against all supplements including whey protein, that they are hard on you kidneys/liver whatever. Im in a small area and we don?t have much to choose from in the way of doctors. I use Animal Pump, Storm, Torrent and whey of course, along with Pak?because I had picked up Hep (A) overseas 25 years ago I worry about there (supplements) effect on my body. After all we do this to be healthy.

Ask the doctor what problems he has seen from people taking supplements. What sort of ill effects he has had to treat due to supplements. I'd love to hear/read what he say's.

I'd keep this doctor. I think he knows a little more than just "the hard on kidneys/liver statement". Pick his brain. Then share with us. :)

chodan9
03-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Doctors probably get about as much training on nutrition as they do addictive disease.
I have seen them prescribe drugs to narcotics addicts to "cure" them only to give them a new addiction to deal with.
I am guessing its the same with nutrition, unless they specialize in nutritions.
Most GP's are trained to treat common illness and pass the ones they cant treat on to specialists.

ExSniper
03-20-2008, 03:45 PM
i think most Doctors are freaking clueless, IM JUST SAYIN :)

Reality_Check
03-20-2008, 05:01 PM
I've read about this a lot. There are no studies showing that a population of people free of previously existing kidney disease are adversely affected by high protein intake.

Most doctors continue to believe what they were taught at medical school decades after scientific research has proved it to be wrong.
For example many doctors where (and probably still are) still attributing stomach ulcers to too much stress (according to one study I saw) many years after it was demonstrated that most stomach ulcers are actually caused by infection with Helicobacter pylori and can easily be treated with antibiotics.

djflex
03-20-2008, 06:56 PM
You know it's funny how they say protein is hard on your liver and yet dismiss casual drinking. That being said when I had my first physical in my late 30's they asked me to list all supplements. It was a laundry list at the time. My own DR. decided to turn the list over to the sports med. Dr at the practice. He said nothing about the protein but told me to drop the ephedrine fat burners and creatine. He stated the creatine was hard on the kidneys. The moral of the story is also is on the same sheet I was also very honest about achohol. I consumed way more than I should have at that time in my life. The only thing the asked was if I felt i had a problem (which thank god I don't). They did not cover any possible health risks to my alcohol consumption , and yet were overly concerned about supplements. I remember saying to myself wow, they went through my supplements with a fine tooth comb and dismissed drinking as the norm.

oldsuperman
03-20-2008, 08:49 PM
Most docs dont know anything about supplements, nutrition or fitness. The ones I work with are overweight, eat a bunch of crap and couldn't break a sweat in the gym if their life depended on it. I have been out of medical school for over 10 years and I dont know what they are teaching these days but everything I know about this stuff I had to teach myself.

In general the stuff you buy at the local vitamin store is pretty harmless as long as you dont go insane with the amount you take. I dont worry about high protein diets unless you have advanced liver or kidney disease in which case supplements would be the least of your concerns. Now prescription drugs and illegal substances like anabolic steroids are a whole nother animal....

You dont need a doctor to monitor your labs - here is a thread that was sarted by my friend Mike - you pay online for the tests you want and then go to a local lab with the slip and they run whatever you want. If you have abnormal results then find a doctor you trust. Good Luck.


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7379721

This is your answer you are seeking. I have a Doc that takes care of most BBers and Power Lifter in the area. Like Doc Smo above, he has taken the time and effort to educate himself AND he is in AMAZING shape himself!

BJE
03-20-2008, 09:33 PM
I believe it's probably true that most medical research is funded by large pharmacutical companies. Most of what doctors learn is from these studies. There's not much money in selling suppiments, compared to prescription drugs. Doctors are trained to prescribe drugs, because that's where the money is. Have you ever seen a suppliment company representative in a doctors office to promote the use of suppliments to the doctors?

It has been my experience that if a doctor can't prescribe a drug, or do surgery on you, they really can't help you.

tomdana
03-20-2008, 10:00 PM
I feel for all of the posters who have had a bad relationship with the medical field. I think just as in any field there are good and bad. There are myriad reasons why there is such variability-- from personal drive, experience, local practice standards and the litigious world we live in. Most medical schools and docs are most comfortable in evidence based medicine. The reality is that there are not a ton of well done, double blinded, placebo controlled studies on supplements. The research is hard to do and at times quite invasive so it does not get done. Further, funding for research looks for the big impact areas. I would love to see more nutrition and supplement research in intensively trained athletes though it is not a priority in the face of obesity, heart disease and cancer.

The posters cited that very little nutrition is taught in med school are correct. There is so much to cover in such a relatively short time that it does not take a front seat. When I was in school we had a single lecture on HIV and now there could be a whole semester on HIV and many write PhD theses on the subject. The hope is that the basic foundation is started and that people can build upon that.

My patients, though kids, reap the benefits of my training. That knowledge base was not a requirement for my medical training though was a personal interest. I cannot think of a single colleague of mine that would have the knowledge to figure out in a few minutes why the 16 yr old I saw today who's strength coach at school is reading a book during class, had back pain. I was able to spend the time showing him how to squat and deadlift and talking about the form his coach does not teach. He loved it and honestly I did too. There are going to be a few docs out there that have the knowledge of the supplement world though the majority will not.

The best thing to do is search for the doc that fits your needs and philosophies. I am sad to say that many out there feel like you are lucky they are they for you. I am not tooting my own horn, though I feel absolutely blessed to be able to do what I do and when it comes to a question of fitness I enjoy it twice as much. I figure if I can influence the youth in my town one at a time I am doing what I need to do. It is a thrill that kids now come to me for questions as they are starting to know that I am enthusiastic to help them with their training.

Please don't flame me, I whole heartedly agree that some docs should not be out there, but to send us all to hell is not fair either. The docs on the forum generally speak of the frustration with our patients not wanting to take the effort to be fit. Everyone here has half the problem solved, they want to be fit. The other half of the problem is finding the doc that is there with you. Take care and good luck.

fitnessman
03-21-2008, 07:21 AM
Change Doctors.



The best thing to do is search for the doc that fits your needs

I think I summed that up in post number two! :D :D

Great post though! :)

3speed
03-21-2008, 07:54 AM
If it is blood work that you are looking for, you can do that on your own. You can use the website healthcheckusa.com/lab_test/ to order tests, get your results and have the results explained. I have used them and actually paid less than the deductible on my insurance plan. You simply order and pay for the tests online, then go to a local site to get the blood drawn. They send you the results in a few days.

EBA84
03-21-2008, 08:28 AM
The typical doctor doesn't know a whole lot when it comes to a bodybuilder, supplements and nutrition.

I have finally found a doctor who knows a bit and doesn't order a liver ultrasound everytime my enzymes are slightly elevated and doesn't panic because my CPK is 10 times normal. He knows these are things that occur with training and the type of diet we eat.

I would definitely suggest searching for a doctor who has experience with this.