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chodan9
03-19-2008, 08:34 PM
Hi guys,

I suspect this may be related to poor form but I have been experiencing some mild pain in my shoulders after my chest days,
I usually do
DB bench
incline db bench
dips
db or cable flys
peck deck

I am wondering when doing flys or db press, when lowering the weights,
should the weights come down at chest level or lower on the body.
Also, would going too deep cause the pain in the shoulders,
its not severe, but I would rather fix it now before it gets that way.
Also could going too deep on dips cause it?
I usually get over a 90 degree bend in my elbows when dipping.
How deep do you guys go when dipping?
lots of questions I know but this is a good place to get input.
THANKS!

dbx
03-19-2008, 08:43 PM
I'd put money on the dips being the cause. Skip them for a week or so and see. If it turns out it was the dips, you might try them again, but make sure not to go past parallel. Of course, it could be presses, but I'd look at dips first, as they're a known shoulder killer for many.

BJE
03-19-2008, 10:02 PM
I've been having trouble with pain in my right shoulder AC joint since last September. I think I hurt it doing bench presses. Now in order to not cause pain I am not doing dips, and on bench presses I'm only going down until my upper arms are parallel to the floor, and not all the way to my chest. So far this has kept the pain at bay. Now I only get a slight aching. A few months ago I could hardly move my arm.

trkshot8
03-19-2008, 10:18 PM
I have had the same issues with benching. You really need a good few warmup sets then do shorter reps until the shoulder starts getting stronger.

I'm right handed with left shoulder pain, what are you guys?

chodan9
03-19-2008, 10:24 PM
I stopped doing straight bar benches when I lost my spotter.
One reason for the DB benches

BJE
03-19-2008, 10:29 PM
I have had the same issues with benching. You really need a good few warmup sets then do shorter reps until the shoulder starts getting stronger.

I'm right handed with left shoulder pain, what are you guys?

I'm right handed with right shoulder pain. I do machine bench presses, not barbell presses.

chodan9
03-19-2008, 10:36 PM
right handed but the pain is in both shoulders

tjrob
03-19-2008, 11:35 PM
Again I can say I am not the most qualified here..but in my experience...
Shoulder Pain is common from benching, I have shoulder problems that prevent me benching more but a few things that pain has taught me.

1.) Stop going all the way to your chest, if you are like me and you have really long arms, going all the way and touching my chest is actually putting my delts in a bad position. If necessary place a board on your chest to stop.

2.) Switch up for a while and do dumbbell presses.

3.) Work harder with lighter weight that is heavy enough but comfortable, and let it heal.

britonarius
03-20-2008, 01:50 AM
1/ Its more than likely the depth of the dip. lessen the depth.
2/ The left shoulder pain on the right handed guy - thats a common weakness in the opposite arm - try doing an extra db solo with the left arm once a week to help it level out with the right [ cuban press would be good ].
3/ Lower the weight and get the form nailed.

gbg
03-20-2008, 03:42 AM
Hi guys,

I suspect this may be related to poor form but I have been experiencing some mild pain in my shoulders after my chest days,
I usually do
DB bench
incline db bench
dips
db or cable flys
peck deck

I am wondering when doing flys or db press, when lowering the weights,
should the weights come down at chest level or lower on the body.
Also, would going too deep cause the pain in the shoulders,
its not severe, but I would rather fix it now before it gets that way.
Also could going too deep on dips cause it?
I usually get over a 90 degree bend in my elbows when dipping.
How deep do you guys go when dipping?
lots of questions I know but this is a good place to get input.
THANKS!

Yes, going to low on a press will cause you shoulder pain if you have limited ROM on external rotation, no need to go that far down not recommended because it stresses the shoulder joint, keep your elbows level w/ your shoulder at bottom of movement. As far as dips go make sure your keeping your scapula stabilized when your at the bottom of a dip your shoulders should not be up towards your ears and you prevent this from happening by keeping your scap, stabilized.

kathyfit
03-20-2008, 06:29 AM
Flies can cause shoulder pain also. I have seen a few people do flies with bad form and cause a slight tear in their rotator cuff. I've injured both AC joints and to this day cannot do flies (whether on a machine or DB's)...cable flies I'm OK with. I would recommend talking to a physical therapist and having him/her give you exercises to strengthen your rotator cuffs before you REALLY injure them. Warm them up before chest every time....and don't do a full range of motion on anything heavy.
Hope this helps....

Hikemike
03-20-2008, 06:31 AM
Did chest yesterday and my left shoulder hurt pretty bad after, but not during. I think you guys nailed it, because I generally take the bar to my chest. Next week I'll shorten up the ROM a bit!!! Thanks!!!

ectoBgone
03-20-2008, 08:01 AM
I stopped doing straight bar benches when I lost my spotter.
One reason for the DB benches

Tough call since chest days bring the shoulders into play in so many exercises depending on the form. Ironically, I injured my shoulder once on DB benches because I did not have a spotter to help me get the DBs up into position. I was going heavy and trying to get them up into initial position on the first rep was a killer because you're starting so low. You might want to think about those power hooks if you're going to do DB benches.

Also, I watched the video from the "Training with Charles Glass" (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106617811) thread that covers chest exercises, and he had some interesting points about form to target the pecs instead of the delts, especially on inclines. Worth watching if you have not seen it yet.

Good luck, man.

PROT
03-20-2008, 08:17 AM
as far as shoulder injuries. Its too easy to come back too far(bounce at the finish of the rep) and overextend the shoulder joint. I recommend abandoning this exercise to all who will listen ans especially those sitting in the machine rubing their shoulder after a set. It is not a natural range of motion exercise and I suggest flyes as a substitute. Sheer volume of exercises does not substitute for concentration and contraction on a few good sets. Too many people get sloppy on their sets because their routines are too long and concentration falls off. You can get a good chest workout on 3-4 sets of dumbbell bench presses or incline presses with dummbells if you concentrate at the top on the contraction , squeezing the chest at the top and lowering to a stetched position. This is true of any exercise.

chodan9
03-20-2008, 08:36 AM
Tough call since chest days bring the shoulders into play in so many exercises depending on the form. Ironically, I injured my shoulder once on DB benches because I did not have a spotter to help me get the DBs up into position. I was going heavy and trying to get them up into initial position on the first rep was a killer because you're starting so low. You might want to think about those power hooks if you're going to do DB benches.




Good luck, man.

I got a set a couple weeks ago and they do help, I think I may be lowering the weights too low as well as my dips. I'll see if I can make the changes next chest day.
Thanks for all your response everyone!

ironwill2008
03-20-2008, 08:57 AM
Hi guys,

I suspect this may be related to poor form but I have been experiencing some mild pain in my shoulders after my chest days,
I usually do
DB bench
incline db bench
dips
db or cable flys
peck deck

I am wondering when doing flys or db press, when lowering the weights,
should the weights come down at chest level or lower on the body.
Also, would going too deep cause the pain in the shoulders,
its not severe, but I would rather fix it now before it gets that way.
Also could going too deep on dips cause it?
I usually get over a 90 degree bend in my elbows when dipping.
How deep do you guys go when dipping?
lots of questions I know but this is a good place to get input.
THANKS!

Probably the BEST thing you can do for shoulder pain is NOT BB bench. I also agree with the others that you may be going too deep with dips. I found that as I've gotten older, I can't dip nearly as deep as I used to, without causing pain. I'm like you; I always had shoulder pain after working chest. I never got it under control until I started to bench with dumbbells. I don't come down further than upper arms parallel with the floor; same with flyes. Also, I bench in a Smith machine from time to time. This causes me no shoulder pain; you might try it yourself, and see how it works for you.

bulldog71
03-20-2008, 09:10 AM
Is it pain in the shoulder joint, or just the ligaments where the pecs insert under the delts? Ligament pain can be somewhat common pwo if you haven't stretched properly and you're not well warmed.

Rich1642
03-20-2008, 09:59 AM
Hi guys,

I suspect this may be related to poor form but I have been experiencing some mild pain in my shoulders after my chest days,
I usually do
DB bench
incline db bench
dips
db or cable flys
peck deck

I am wondering when doing flys or db press, when lowering the weights,
should the weights come down at chest level or lower on the body.
Also, would going too deep cause the pain in the shoulders,
its not severe, but I would rather fix it now before it gets that way.
Also could going too deep on dips cause it?
I usually get over a 90 degree bend in my elbows when dipping.
How deep do you guys go when dipping?
lots of questions I know but this is a good place to get input.
THANKS!

I would look at muscle imbalances/weakness in the upper back and possible shoulders.

ntrllftr
03-20-2008, 10:04 AM
When do you do shoulders? I had to switch up my program because if I do shoulders then chest I get discomfort.
Now I do chest then a few days later do shoulders. My discomfort went away.
It may be just as much to switch up your routine?

chodan9
03-25-2008, 05:46 PM
based on everyones replies I have made some changed in my routine.

lessened the depth of my DB presses slightly,
lessened the depth of my dips. Only go to 90 degree bend now.
I also moved dips to the beginning of my workout since they are my primary compound excercise on chest/tri day, I can hit em stronger that way. May add weight next week :-)
changed from dumbell fly's to cable fly's
eliminated pec deck.
I also started animal flex last week.

My shoulders felt way better after the workout this week, an my chest feels like it got a much better workout this week.
Thanks everyone, you have saved me some uneeded pain!

GoOrange
03-26-2008, 08:27 AM
Hi guys,

I suspect this may be related to poor form but I have been experiencing some mild pain in my shoulders after my chest days,
I usually do
DB bench
incline db bench
dips
db or cable flys
peck deck

I am wondering when doing flys or db press, when lowering the weights,
should the weights come down at chest level or lower on the body.
Also, would going too deep cause the pain in the shoulders,
its not severe, but I would rather fix it now before it gets that way.
Also could going too deep on dips cause it?
I usually get over a 90 degree bend in my elbows when dipping.
How deep do you guys go when dipping?
lots of questions I know but this is a good place to get input.
THANKS!

All of these exercises can cause shoulder pain.

Bench presses - don't use too wide of a grip. Keep your hands inside of the rings on the bar. Most importantly, keep your upper arms at about a 45 degree angle to your body. If your upper arms are perpendicular to your torso it increases the stress on your shoulders dramatically. When lowering the weight, don't bring your elbows much lower (closer to the floor) than your shoulder.

A full range of motion is usually desirable, but too many people use an overly wide grip on the bar and go down too deep on their benches, which places too much stress on the shoulders.

Dumbbell Flies - Again don't bring your arms to far back (or down toward the floor) when lowering the weight. Don't bring your upper arms behind your torso (closer to the floor). Doing so places enormous stress on your shoulders.

Dips - vary from person to person. Some dip stands let you adjust the width of the handles. A wider or narrower grip might help. Also, try not going down as low. Find out what works best for you.

Pec deck - again don't bring your arms too far back.

Hope some of this helps!

trkshot8
04-02-2008, 09:55 AM
Friend of mine that works out suggested a new idea yesterday to avoid or lessen shoulder pain.

Core Warmups.... Remember elementary school, the running in place, jumping jacks, arms circles, etc. He said this is great because it gets your body to release synovial fluid which will help lube those joints and may lessen the pain when benching. Try it let me know what you think.

dfarmer
04-07-2008, 09:36 PM
I learned a bit of the hard way about shoulder pain....dont ever let your dumbell drop past parallel with your shoulder doing flys in any position....this was what was casuing me pain...didnt feel it during flys...and I have holy cow long arms...wich makes it easier to over extend.....i was concentrating on the streach in my chest....but it showed up after the damage was done next chest day. If your like me, you do flys to finish up the chest and top off the blood in them b4 calling it a day...i think this is why it hid itself till i hit chest again.

samori
04-08-2008, 04:37 AM
one other thing to mention here, worth looking at anyway

I had some shoulder pain when doing inclines. I had to lessen the incline for a while until I felt stable and comfortable with my form. I slowly increased the incline through a few months. Problem went away.

mikieson
04-08-2008, 06:11 AM
Should pain is a part of my every day life. I have messed both my shoulders up with bad lifts. "my dumb fault"..

I never sleep because of my pain. I regret not lifting smart..I was supposed to have surgery a couple years back on my right one. But a couple days before my surgery, I lifted heavy "375lbs" and it popped. I finished the rep and set the bar back down.....Sat up and was in pain no longer. Didnt have to have surgery..

Now its hurting because im lifting heavy again, but I have a goal of 400lbs Im GOING TO GET TO, before going down in weight.

asmolenski
04-08-2008, 07:03 AM
Almost every guy who comes up to me in the gym and says "Hey you're a doc right? Well my shoulders hurt when I bench" - and yeah there are alot of them - do nothing to strengthen their rotator cuffs and so they develop an impingement syndrome. You need to warm up the rotator cuffs before you do shoulder or chest work. There are various articles on bb.com about these exercises and this has been covered several times on different threads in this forum.

Taxguy
04-08-2008, 04:59 PM
Word to the wise - do not take shoulder pain lightly. I did and have a partial tear in my rotator cuff to remind me of my stupidity. I am certain that mine was caused by flat bench or weighted dips. Probably aided by years of playing baseball, etc. If you have an unnatural pain in the shoulder, you might just try the dumbells of hammer strength equipment for a while and ease back into it.

dsharp9000
04-08-2008, 05:08 PM
Almost every guy who comes up to me in the gym and says "Hey you're a doc right? Well my shoulders hurt when I bench" - and yeah there are alot of them - do nothing to strengthen their rotator cuffs and so they develop an impingement syndrome. You need to warm up the rotator cuffs before you do shoulder or chest work. There are various articles on bb.com about these exercises and this has been covered several times on different threads in this forum.

i agree ... and will say in general there is always a big emphasis placed on chest and bench more than any other body part.


However, if you neglect other supporting bodyparts that are involved in the bench such as the shoulder, lats, upper back, and so on then you will create a strengh imbalance that can lead to a shoulder injury.

In general, one should do an equal number of pulling/pushing movements along the same plane. For example, if you do 5 sets of flat bench; then you need to be doing 5 sets of bent over rows. If you do 5 sets of military presses, then you should be doing 5 sets of pullups/chinups.

I know a lot of people who work there chest twice as often as other body parts (they will work there chest twice a week; and all other body parts once a week). They then wonder why they get injured doing the flat bench; there are a lot supporting muscles that must be equally developed to insure remaining injury free.... but everyone seems to love to over exercise the chest while under exercising other supporting muscle groups...

chodan9
04-08-2008, 05:10 PM
Thanks

They have been doing much better since I modified my workouts and straightened up my form. Also I have been warming up better.
Not to mention adding animal flex into my supplementation.

Fishhawk
04-08-2008, 06:23 PM
Three things I did to control shoulder pain on chest day were:
1). Instead of a board I fold a towel and lay it over my chest. It gives me about an inch and a half thicknesss.
2). This may be the most important thing. I always make sure my elbows are pulled in somewhat when I bench. If they are pointed out, I can be sure to have shoulder issues. Same goes for DP presses. Don't let your elbows fly outward.
3). Never go below parallel on dips.

These three things have kept me relatively pain free in the shoulders.

chodan9
04-08-2008, 06:42 PM
Three things I did to control shoulder pain on chest day were:
1). Instead of a board I fold a towel and lay it over my chest. It gives me about an inch and a half thicknesss.
2). This may be the most important thing. I always make sure my elbows are pulled in somewhat when I bench. If they are pointed out, I can be sure to have shoulder issues. Same goes for DP presses. Don't let your elbows fly outward.
3). Never go below parallel on dips.

These three things have kept me relatively pain free in the shoulders.

number 2 and 3 have proven themselves to me for sure

Ophus
04-09-2008, 02:03 PM
based on everyones replies I have made some changed in my routine.

lessened the depth of my DB presses slightly,
lessened the depth of my dips. Only go to 90 degree bend now.
I also moved dips to the beginning of my workout since they are my primary compound excercise on chest/tri day, I can hit em stronger that way. May add weight next week :-)
changed from dumbell fly's to cable fly's
eliminated pec deck.
I also started animal flex last week.

My shoulders felt way better after the workout this week, an my chest feels like it got a much better workout this week.
Thanks everyone, you have saved me some uneeded pain!

I have been fighting tendonitis in my shoulders for over a year now, actually took 6 months off no lifting. What I have found is too wide grip on BB bench, I never go over shoulder width now. I love cables flies but stopped doing them suspecting they contributed to the problem. Recently I have been feeling better and decided to add them back in. within 2 weeks my shoulders were killing me. I would say do not add them into you routine instead of DB flies, the cables just shred my shoulders, sore for days(and not in a good way).