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oldsuperman
03-19-2008, 09:22 AM
I get asked almost everyday one of these questions:

"What supplements should I take?" or "What kind of diet" or "What can I do" or, and this is one I get a lot, "should I take whey" ?

Then I say:

"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."

It doesn't matter much what you eat or what you take if you don't train with intensity!

Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!

doofusdave
03-19-2008, 09:23 AM
X2. Repped.

namtrag
03-19-2008, 09:28 AM
Damn, Ed, you spoiled my whole week by telling me that...lol

You mean I gotta do leg presses with more than 45 lbs on each side?

I saw a male, who I know is not injured, doing just that this morning. I felt like pimp slapping him!

CrazyEnough
03-19-2008, 09:34 AM
repped!!!

The harsh truth ladies and gents!

johnrich69
03-19-2008, 09:47 AM
X10 ! He speaketh thy trueth.

phikappa
03-19-2008, 10:05 AM
Word.

djflex
03-19-2008, 10:07 AM
I get asked almost everyday one of these questions:

"What supplements should I take?" or "What kind of diet" or "What can I do" or, and this is one I get a lot, "should I take whey" ?

Then I say:

"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."

It doesn't matter much what you eat or what you take if you don't train with intensity!

Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!


Great post, words to live by!!!

PLANETGETLOW
03-19-2008, 10:09 AM
Most newbs want a quick fix and think they can diet or excerise and get results in 2 weeks.

If I had $1 everytime I heard "I'm gonna start working out with you" or "I'll start my diet next week" I wouldn't need to work.

HoosierHardGain
03-19-2008, 10:13 AM
"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."


I don't think this is necessarily true. I believe for most humans, 3 fullbody workouts a week is optimal.


It doesn't matter much what you eat or what you take if you don't train with intensity!


Well, I agree totally that training with intensity is key. But I really believe that you can't out-train your diet. I would say that it doesn't matter how intense you train, if your diet sucks, you won't go anywhere.



Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!

Well said.

Hikemike
03-19-2008, 10:23 AM
I get asked almost everyday one of these questions:

"What supplements should I take?" or "What kind of diet" or "What can I do" or, and this is one I get a lot, "should I take whey" ?

Then I say:

"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."

It doesn't matter much what you eat or what you take if you don't train with intensity!

Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!

AMEN!!! Heavy and hard!!

PROT
03-19-2008, 10:51 AM
I don't think this is necessarily true. I believe for most humans, 3 fullbody workouts a week is optimal.



Well, I agree totally that training with intensity is key. But I really believe that you can't out-train your diet. I would say that it doesn't matter how intense you train, if your diet sucks, you won't go anywhere.



Well said.

And I believe 80% of health is diet.

Wooly_Ace
03-19-2008, 11:23 AM
x1000...if you're not huffing and puffing when you're done, you didn't work hard enough.

Whiskeyjack
03-19-2008, 11:40 AM
X2. Repped.

Me, too. Absolutely.

FitIron
03-19-2008, 11:49 AM
I get asked almost everyday one of these questions:

"What supplements should I take?" or "What kind of diet" or "What can I do" or, and this is one I get a lot, "should I take whey" ?

Then I say:

"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."

It doesn't matter much what you eat or what you take if you don't train with intensity!

Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!

"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."

Subjective. If you are talking about those who bodybuild- then YES. However most people on BB.COM are not bodybuilders. So I would say 3 days a week of resistance training is enough.
However, this is BB.COM..!!

IMO, you can train yourself into oblivion, but if your diet doesn't support your goal of either cutting or gaining, you are wasting your time...

Inthegrass
03-19-2008, 11:54 AM
Great post!! You can only get out of it what you put into it.

Whiskeyjack
03-19-2008, 11:54 AM
[/i]

Subjective. If you are talking about those who bodybuild- then YES. However most people on BB.COM are not bodybuilders. So I would say 3 days a week of resistance training is enough.
However, this is BB.COM..!!

IMO, you can train yourself into oblivion, but if your diet doesn't support your goal of either cutting or gaining, you are wasting your time...

I agree with you that it's not strictly necessary for 5x/week training - depending on your goals, genetics, etc.

But what OS meant, and I agree with him, is that while it's true that supps and a special diet may augment the results of your training, it's the training itself that makes the physique. You can't have a really bodybuilding (or bodybuilding type) body without hard ironwork; someone who trains hard will still look impressive and feel better with a lousy diet and no supps than another person who diets/supps to death without hard training. I say that looking at YOUR abs which are great and so your diet's probably excellent, but I've seen lots of joes who train like demons in the gym, eat fries and gravy, beer every day, never took a pill in their lives, and look tremendous.

bodyhard
03-19-2008, 11:58 AM
I agree to an extent.

You see you can train in the gym like hell 5 days a week all you want, but if you don't fuel your body with food you wont get anywhere either!!

Ingersoll
03-19-2008, 12:01 PM
IMO, you can train yourself into oblivion, but if your diet doesn't support your goal of either cutting or gaining, you are wasting your time...

This has been my experience as well. To me, the easier part of good health is going to the gym and busting my ass. What's far more difficult is consuming the proper diet 5-6 times a day, 7 days week, week after week, month after month, year in and year out.

This isn't to say that training hard and pushing yourself isn't important, because it obviously is, but I think it takes more discipline to eat properly, consistently.

FitIron
03-19-2008, 12:05 PM
I get asked almost everyday one of these questions:

"What supplements should I take?" or "What kind of diet" or "What can I do" or, and this is one I get a lot, "should I take whey" ?

Then I say:

"First, YOU 'VE GOTTA TRAIN LIKE HELL! You gotta show up to getter done. Push and pull like your life depended on it! 5 days a week."

It doesn't matter much what you eat or what you take if you don't train with intensity!

Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!


I agree with you that it's not strictly necessary for 5x/week training - depending on your goals, genetics, etc.

But what OS meant, and I agree with him, is that while it's true that supps and a special diet may augment the results of your training, it's the training itself that makes the physique. You can't have a really bodybuilding (or bodybuilding type) body without hard ironwork; someone who trains hard will still look impressive and feel better with a lousy diet and no supps than another person who diets/supps to death without hard training. I say that looking at YOUR abs which are great and so your diet's probably excellent, but I've seen lots of joes who train like demons in the gym, eat fries and gravy, beer every day, never took a pill in their lives, and look tremendous.

There is absolutel merit in what OS said. You made some good points as well....However, this>>>I've seen lots of joes who train like demons in the gym, eat fries and gravy, beer every day, never took a pill in their lives, and look tremendous<<<< is the purest example of genetics.

I just started lifting 9 months ago. My build has been a total combination of busting my arse in the gym and in the most intense ways.. and a solid conbination of good clean eating and proper supplimentation.

I am an example of the importance of diet. At one time, my system stalled on me. It did so because my caloric intake got too low. Once I upped my calories, my body started responding again. During that period my workouts were the same.

I have also achieved something that many have said cannot be done. I gained lean mass and dropped bf% at the same time. That said, while training is a huge, huge factor, that could not have been done without proper diet and supplementation...

bodyhard
03-19-2008, 12:07 PM
This has been my experience as well. To me, the easier part of good health is going to the gym and busting my ass. What's far more difficult is consuming the proper diet 5-6 times a day, 7 days week, week after week, month after month, year in and year out.

This isn't to say that training hard and pushing yourself isn't important, because it obviously is, but I think it takes more discipline to eat properly, consistently.

Although I agree with you (read my post above) You can also have the perfect diet day in and day out but if you train half ass in the gym you will only get half ass results.

Diet is definitely key but make no mistake intensity in the gym plays a MAYOR role in it to

xMichaelx
03-19-2008, 12:09 PM
And I believe 80% of health is diet.
Agreed, both with this and the OP. If you're not already training and eating right, supplements are literally $$ down the drain.

Post should be a sticky in the Teen section.

Whiskeyjack
03-19-2008, 12:11 PM
Although I agree with you (read my post above) You can also have the perfect diet day in and day out but if you train half ass in the gym you will only get half ass results.

Diet is definitely key but make no mistake intensity in the gym plays a MAYOR role in it to

I think this pretty well bridges the points that FitIron and I mentioned. Good stuff.

FitIron
03-19-2008, 12:15 PM
Although I agree with you (read my post above) You can also have the perfect diet day in and day out but if you train half ass in the gym you will only get half ass results.

Diet is definitely key but make no mistake intensity in the gym plays a MAYOR role in it to

AGREED.....Intensity is an absolute must!!


I think this pretty well bridges the points that FitIron and I mentioned. Good stuff.


Yes it is good stuff. Excellent exchange...

bodyhard
03-19-2008, 12:16 PM
I think this pretty well bridges the points that FitIron and I mentioned. Good stuff.

Yes diet makes you or breaks you in the gym a good diet is what separates a hell of a squat day from "Damn this **** feels like a ton today"

Once your body is fueled your workouts will benefit and when your workouts benefit then so does the returns in your body!

namtrag
03-19-2008, 12:33 PM
You mean lifting when doing 1800 cals a day isnt a good idea? lol

I don't lose body fat unless I go that low. I have maintained for 5 weeks on 2500 a day and my waist remains 38".

FitIron
03-19-2008, 12:38 PM
You mean lifting when doing 1800 cals a day isnt a good idea? lol

I don't lose body fat unless I go that low. I have maintained for 5 weeks on 2500 a day and my waist remains 38".

Well, nothing was said about exact calories.....

At the moment I am cutting and 1800 happens to be my daily macro intake at the moment.

I started at 3000 for 4 weeks, then down to 2200 for 4 weeks, and now I am at 1800....for another week and a half....

bodyhard
03-19-2008, 12:41 PM
Well, nothing was said about exact calories.....

At the moment I am cutting and 1800 happens to be my daily macro intake at the moment.

I started at 3000 for 4 weeks, then down to 2200 for 4 weeks, and now I am at 1800....for another week and a half....

Are you going to compete?

Most Muscular
03-19-2008, 12:43 PM
While I agree the heavy intense workouts are required to build more muscle mass I think diet is much more of an important factor in gaining muscle or losing fat. I would place it at 75-80% of your success, or lack thereof. You can train with intensity in the gym but your muscles don't grow in the gym, they grow when you are at home resting and FEEDING them adequate supplies of protein and other nutrients.

How many times have you seen people through the years who consistently hit the gym for training, and even with some intensity yet never seem to make that dramatic advances in their physiques. Why? Because they are wasting their time in the gym by not feeding their body the protein and other nutrients it needs to repair these worked muscles. If they don't get their protein from food their body only has one other protein source for this repair... your other muscle stores. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.... it is not a very productive muscle building cycle and if your body is not fed properly you will NOT see results, or at least not anywhere near the results you will see with proper nutrition.

nuff said...

FitIron
03-19-2008, 12:43 PM
Are you going to compete?

Yes!

May 24th and June 28th....

I'll actually stay where I am for a while longer and then drop again if needed. However there are other variables I'll look at as well...

bodyhard
03-19-2008, 12:45 PM
Yes!

May 24th and June 28th....

I'll actually stay where I am for a while longer and then drop again if needed. However there are other variables I'll look at as well...

Awesome man. good luck!

FitIron
03-19-2008, 12:47 PM
Awesome man. good luck!


thank you, it is appreciated.

will be my first show. so i am very stoked about being on the stage...

namtrag
03-19-2008, 12:52 PM
Well, nothing was said about exact calories.....

At the moment I am cutting and 1800 happens to be my daily macro intake at the moment.

I started at 3000 for 4 weeks, then down to 2200 for 4 weeks, and now I am at 1800....for another week and a half....

The implication was that we need to eat enough (read " a lot", for most people who lift), and when I eat enough, I stay fat! lol

I was trying to cut a lb a week at 2500, it just doesn't work for me.

I just don't need much food, and I have to give up the dream of ever being able to eat more than 1800 a day.

namtrag
03-19-2008, 12:53 PM
thank you, it is appreciated.

will be my first show. so i am very stoked about being on the stage...

Good luck to you!

FitIron
03-19-2008, 12:56 PM
The implication was that we need to eat enough (read " a lot", for most people who lift), and when I eat enough, I stay fat! lol

I was trying to cut a lb a week at 2500, it just doesn't work for me.

I just don't need much food, and I have to give up the dream of ever being able to eat more than 1800 a day.

Gotcha!

I was/am the same as you. When I started I had to FORCE myself to eat 3000 calories a day.

Are you at 1800 now? Is it working?

If not drop a little more...maybe to 1600...what is your goal?

namtrag
03-19-2008, 01:18 PM
Gotcha!

I was/am the same as you. When I started I had to FORCE myself to eat 3000 calories a day.

Are you at 1800 now? Is it working?

If not drop a little more...maybe to 1600...what is your goal?

Just been doing it for 3 days, so can't tell yet!

My goal is to get to 10-12% body fat, and keep there all summer, then go on competition diet in late summer.

Goal is 30-32" at the navel, and I have 6-8" to go...lol

FitIron
03-19-2008, 01:25 PM
Just been doing it for 3 days, so can't tell yet!

My goal is to get to 10-12% body fat, and keep there all summer, then go on competition diet in late summer.

Goal is 30-32" at the navel, and I have 6-8" to go...lol

I would just hold what you've got for another 3-4 weeks.

Depending on your metabolism yo may notice results in just a fews, or maybe longer...

What if any cardio are you doing??

oldsuperman
03-19-2008, 01:42 PM
I get asked almost everyday one of these questions:

"What supplements should I take?" or "What kind of diet" or "What can I do" or, and this is one I get a lot, "should I take whey" ?

Do sups give you an edge? Will a good diet fuel the body to its potential? You bet!

YET! It all ends up in the toilet WASTED, unless you train like hell!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I reiterate the above!

Diet important! YOU BET!

YET, my friends when these people approach me and they look at me and say they want to look like me, or like me yet not as muscled, I tell them the truth! 5 days a week of grueling, challenging, intense training. That's the truth for me! And I guarantee it for them! I AM the proof it worked.

Next, why go into their diet and sups if they won't even make the commitment to make it to the gym? Weather it is 3 days a wk or 5 days a wk isn't the issue! They may make it to the gym, yet if their effort is lacking, what good is their training then? Will they get the look they seek?

If they want to look average, what ever that means, go Jenny, or , or Weight Watchers etc, Yet, when THEY approach ME, and if they want what I have, 5 DAYS A WEEK! TRAIN LIKE HELL!

BE INTENSE.

BE COMMITTED, then lets get your diet and sups checked in.

namtrag
03-19-2008, 01:47 PM
You are so CORRECT, I wish I could work out with you to see if I am intense enough. I bet I would find out that I am not! I need an ahole training partner to yell in my ear and make me do just one more rep.

FitIron
03-19-2008, 01:52 PM
You are so CORRECT, I wish I could work out with you to see if I am intense enough. I bet I would find out that I am not! I need an ahole training partner to yell in my ear and make me do just one more rep.

Intensity is VERY key....

one of my clients actually called me an A@$ this morning...LOL!!!!!

IR45N
03-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Plus, if you train like Hell you MIGHT look like Hell, but if you LOOK like HELL doesn't mean you've trained like HELL.

Most Muscular
03-19-2008, 01:58 PM
For myself I see more results when I improve my diet compared to trying to improve my workouts. I am doing a lot less intensity workouts these days but I have improved my "look" I now maintain by ten times what I normally would like like and I attribute it all to my improved diet.

Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training... but I know what can be done with a good diet and working your ass off in the gym is all for naught if you don't follow it up with a good diet.

nuff said...

asmolenski
03-19-2008, 02:28 PM
Hey Ed - you always gets them stirred up on these forums! FitIron - Good Luck to you!

I love this sport! When people ask me about my training routine and diet etc I take it all in as compliments. I am polite and tell them what I do but I know they will never do it b/c this sport is more than just about dieting and exercise - it is an entire lifestyle and philospohy - like a religion or a brotherhood. Most people just dont understand that and they will never "get it".

oldsuperman
03-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training...
nuff said...

Genetics! You my Brother in Iron, ARE A FREAK!!!!

Bodybuilding may be the ONLY sport where being a FREAK is a GOOD thing! I'm waiting for the the day when someone comes up to me and say!
"Man! You are a %$&*%en FREAK!"

Only then, will my dream be realized!

bodyhard
03-19-2008, 02:37 PM
For myself I see more results when I improve my diet compared to trying to improve my workouts. I am doing a lot less intensity workouts these days but I have improved my "look" I now maintain by ten times what I normally would like like and I attribute it all to my improved diet.

Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training... but I know what can be done with a good diet and working your ass off in the gym is all for naught if you don't follow it up with a good diet.

nuff said...

man to hell with you and your genetics I hate you :D :D :D

Dude I wish I had your genetics!

asmolenski
03-19-2008, 02:47 PM
For myself I see more results when I improve my diet compared to trying to improve my workouts. I am doing a lot less intensity workouts these days but I have improved my "look" I now maintain by ten times what I normally would like like and I attribute it all to my improved diet.

Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training... but I know what can be done with a good diet and working your ass off in the gym is all for naught if you don't follow it up with a good diet.

nuff said...

Hey Randy - I just checked out your profile and videos - I am really impressed!

Joe Go
03-19-2008, 03:04 PM
While I agree the heavy intense workouts are required to build more muscle mass I think diet is much more of an important factor in gaining muscle or losing fat. I would place it at 75-80% of your success, or lack thereof. You can train with intensity in the gym but your muscles don't grow in the gym, they grow when you are at home resting and FEEDING them adequate supplies of protein and other nutrients.

How many times have you seen people through the years who consistently hit the gym for training, and even with some intensity yet never seem to make that dramatic advances in their physiques. Why? Because they are wasting their time in the gym by not feeding their body the protein and other nutrients it needs to repair these worked muscles. If they don't get their protein from food their body only has one other protein source for this repair... your other muscle stores. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.... it is not a very productive muscle building cycle and if your body is not fed properly you will NOT see results, or at least not anywhere near the results you will see with proper nutrition.

nuff said...


Agreed.

Mr. Someday
03-19-2008, 03:19 PM
While I agree the heavy intense workouts are required to build more muscle mass I think diet is much more of an important factor in gaining muscle or losing fat. I would place it at 75-80% of your success, or lack thereof. You can train with intensity in the gym but your muscles don't grow in the gym, they grow when you are at home resting and FEEDING them adequate supplies of protein and other nutrients.

How many times have you seen people through the years who consistently hit the gym for training, and even with some intensity yet never seem to make that dramatic advances in their physiques. Why? Because they are wasting their time in the gym by not feeding their body the protein and other nutrients it needs to repair these worked muscles. If they don't get their protein from food their body only has one other protein source for this repair... your other muscle stores. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.... it is not a very productive muscle building cycle and if your body is not fed properly you will NOT see results, or at least not anywhere near the results you will see with proper nutrition.

nuff said...


Couldn't agree more!

Most Muscular
03-19-2008, 05:02 PM
Hey Randy - I just checked out your profile and videos - I am really impressed!

Thanks for the compliment (blushing)

gbg
03-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Genetics! You my Brother in Iron, ARE A FREAK!!!!

Bodybuilding my be the ONLY sport where being a FREAK is a GOOD thing! I'm waiting for the the day when someone comes up to me and say!
"Man! You are a %$&*%en FREAK!"

Only then, will my dream be realized!

Man! your are ****en FREAK!!! :D

chodan9
03-19-2008, 05:54 PM
Genetics! You my Brother in Iron, ARE A FREAK!!!!

Bodybuilding my be the ONLY sport where being a FREAK is a GOOD thing! I'm waiting for the the day when someone comes up to me and say!
"Man! You are a %$&*%en FREAK!"

Only then, will my dream be realized!


I was looking in websters the other day, and beside the word freak was "see Oldsuperman"

Wooly_Ace
03-19-2008, 06:21 PM
For myself I see more results when I improve my diet compared to trying to improve my workouts. I am doing a lot less intensity workouts these days but I have improved my "look" I now maintain by ten times what I normally would like like and I attribute it all to my improved diet.

Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training... but I know what can be done with a good diet and working your ass off in the gym is all for naught if you don't follow it up with a good diet.

nuff said...

Most Muscular Genetics sold here at BB.com in capsules, powder and RTD's. Get yours for only $99.99.............hehe

oldsuperman
03-19-2008, 07:20 PM
Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training... but I know what can be done with a good diet and working your ass off in the gym is all for naught if you don't follow it up with a good diet.

nuff said...


Couldn't agree more!

You might agree, yet if it were that simple, more would look like Randy and you! Yet, only .05% of men even come close! Why? Cause they don't have Randy's Genetics. Cause they don't train hard like freaks or consistent enough! Randy has self professed "GOOD genetic", discipline in his diet AND work ethic! That equals Most Muscular!

If you don't have the genes, you better train like hell! Is diet important? AGAIN for the third time, "YOU BET"! Again, your food and sups just end up in the toilet is you don't train like hell!


I was looking in websters the other day, and beside the word freak was "see Oldsuperman"

You forgot the "JK"!


Most Muscular Genetics sold here at BB.com in capsules, powder and RTD's. Get yours for only $99.99.............hehe

I'm up for the first order! LOL!

bigeugene
03-19-2008, 07:20 PM
Man! your are ****en FREAK!!! :D

gbg you beat me to it! :D

OS, you are a mother @#@#@##$ freak, she is right!

Most Muscular
03-19-2008, 07:58 PM
If you don't have the genes, you better train like hell! Is diet important? AGAIN for the third time, "YOU BET"! Again, your food and sups just end up in the toilet is you don't train like hell!

Okay, here I have to disagree... Let me explain:

I could take a person and have them perform more intense workouts but keep their diet the same and they would see some results. I could then let them maintain their current "not as intense" workouts but improve their diet and I bet they would see more results in their physique.

Now putting both intense workouts AND proper diet together will create a greatly improved physique but an intense workout without proper diet will not produce the same results as an improved diet IMHO.

nuff said...

Joe Go
03-19-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm on the improved diet and posing program. :) 2 weeks to see how it pays off.

oldsuperman
03-19-2008, 08:22 PM
Okay, here I have to disagree... Let me explain:

I could take a person and have them perform more intense workouts but keep their diet the same and they would see some results. I could then let them maintain their current "not as intense" workouts but improve their diet and I bet they would see more results in their physique.

Now putting both intense workouts AND proper diet together will create a greatly improved physique but an intense workout without proper diet will not produce the same results as an improved diet IMHO.

nuff said...

And then they'll end up looking like you? Don't think so Randy! I'm not saying you don't need all three , hard consistent training, diet and sups, to optimise your results, just if they don't commit to training hard and being consistent, again, in the toilet!

To quote you Randy, "Now putting both intense workouts AND proper diet together will create a greatly improved physique but an intense workout without proper diet will not produce the same results as an improved diet IMHO." True. yet as I said in my thread starter, they have to be consistent, get their ass to the gym, and train like hell to get results they are seeking!

IMHOHO. (in my humblest of humble opinions :) )

widebody195
03-20-2008, 05:24 AM
And don't forget the rest! You can't do much in the gym if you're dragging from lack of sleep, and the important muscle rebuilding and growth that should happen at night simply won't. Bodybuilding is a 3-legged stool. All three pillars must be there to support your progress.

FitIron
03-20-2008, 07:40 AM
Okay, here I have to disagree... Let me explain:

I could take a person and have them perform more intense workouts but keep their diet the same and they would see some results. I could then let them maintain their current "not as intense" workouts but improve their diet and I bet they would see more results in their physique.

Now putting both intense workouts AND proper diet together will create a greatly improved physique but an intense workout without proper diet will not produce the same results as an improved diet IMHO.

nuff said...

I have to agree!!!!

deags
03-20-2008, 01:00 PM
For myself I see more results when I improve my diet compared to trying to improve my workouts. I am doing a lot less intensity workouts these days but I have improved my "look" I now maintain by ten times what I normally would like like and I attribute it all to my improved diet.

Perhaps because I have been blessed with good genetics I do not have to put as much emphasis on my training... but I know what can be done with a good diet and working your ass off in the gym is all for naught if you don't follow it up with a good diet.

nuff said...

While I agree with OS that training hard is key, I really agree with the above. For example, I competed last October, and I have slowly put back on 21 pounds in the past almost 5 months of clean eating and the results have been phenominal. Not only have I put on lean mass, but I can still see my abs. Here are a few shots of a 10 month comparison of what can be done not just training hard, but eating very well.

The first set of pics is from last May while the new set (sorry for the red trunks) are from 2 weeks ago. In my new pictures, I am actually 3 pounds HEAVIER than in my older pictures. It shows you the power of a sound diet and intense training. I am not a big guy by any stretch, but I think the results speak for themselves - you can put on lean mass by eating lots of clean calories IMO!

While I believe getting enough rest, training hard, and getting proper supplementation are all keys to success, I have found that my diet is the key.

bodyhard
03-20-2008, 01:42 PM
While I agree with OS that training hard is key, I really agree with the above. For example, I competed last October, and I have slowly put back on 21 pounds in the past almost 5 months of clean eating and the results have been phenominal. Not only have I put on lean mass, but I can still see my abs. Here are a few shots of a 10 month comparison of what can be done not just training hard, but eating very well.

The first set of pics is from last May while the new set (sorry for the red trunks) are from 2 weeks ago. In my new pictures, I am actually 3 pounds HEAVIER than in my older pictures. It shows you the power of a sound diet and intense training. I am not a big guy by any stretch, but I think the results speak for themselves - you can put on lean mass by eating lots of clean calories IMO!

While I believe getting enough rest, training hard, and getting proper supplementation are all keys to success, I have found that my diet is the key.

Damn dude are you sure you are 156lbs? You look alot bigger! Excellent progress

deags
03-20-2008, 01:47 PM
Damn dude are you sure you are 156lbs? You look alot bigger! Excellent progress

No, right now, I am 167. I am an ectomorph(small joints), so I look much bigger than I really am, which is all good! It is best when the young guys think I weigh 180-185 - shows what a little leanness does to your frame.

bodyhard
03-20-2008, 01:54 PM
No, right now, I am 167. I am an ectomorph(small joints), so I look much bigger than I really am, which is all good! It is best when the young guys think I weigh 180-185 - shows what a little leanness does to your frame.

Please don't talk to me about ecto I am one to, very small joints 5" inch wrist, extremely hard to gain weight :( I hate it!! :D

Stevelegh
03-20-2008, 02:25 PM
I just started lifting 9 months ago. My build has been a total combination of busting my arse in the gym and in the most intense ways.. and a solid conbination of good clean eating and proper supplimentation.



Arse?????

I thought that was an Englishism. Don't you guys say 'ass'? Ha ha!

I think that's my problem. I'm out training my diet.

I'm hitting a new regime on Monday doing little cardio and major eating to supplement the workouts.

Hopefully, that'll give me the gains I want.

Ironized
03-20-2008, 03:29 PM
1. Proper diet

2. Recuperation

3. Cycled training.

oldsuperman
03-20-2008, 05:45 PM
While I agree with OS that training hard is key, I really agree with the above. For example, I competed last October, and I have slowly put back on 21 pounds in the past almost 5 months of clean eating and the results have been phenominal. Not only have I put on lean mass, but I can still see my abs. Here are a few shots of a 10 month comparison of what can be done not just training hard, but eating very well.

The first set of pics is from last May while the new set (sorry for the red trunks) are from 2 weeks ago. In my new pictures, I am actually 3 pounds HEAVIER than in my older pictures. It shows you the power of a sound diet and intense training. I am not a big guy by any stretch, but I think the results speak for themselves - you can put on lean mass by eating lots of clean calories IMO!

While I believe getting enough rest, training hard, and getting proper supplementation are all keys to success, I have found that my diet is the key.


I have to agree!!!!

AGAIN! ONE MORE TIME. Is diet important! "YOU BET!" Yet there is no way in Gods green earth that any one of you guys trained mildly and ended up looking the way you do! NO WAY!

SO, you follow any bbing diet you want, any mass building, hulking, calorie, carb, protein counting diet you want! Unless you train like hell, with intensity, you will not end up looking me, or any of my brothers in Iron in the above post.

Wildtim
03-20-2008, 10:36 PM
I'll tell you what I have to agree with ol' sup on this one.

I can only eat clean enough to grow and make progress in the right direction when I am trainging like hell, so to speak. I'm sure by comparison to any of you guys who are a lot further along this road than I am my "train like hell" is pretty weak.

But it continues to amaze me that my body responds to the hard work by actually craving the foods it needs to become the body I want. I work hard I want lots of clean meat and fresh vegies, and pizza doesn't sound all that appatizing. I take just a few days off and I start craving cookies and pop again.

Work hard to crave the diet you need to reach your goals. Goals you will ony reach by working hard. Man what a perfect circle of success.