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wspe
02-25-2003, 06:43 PM
I find that my chest rarely is PUMPED after benching. My arms and shoulders feel full and tight but not my chest.
Mind you I use more of a pl type workout; that is 5 work sets of three reps and then 5x5 close grip...
Any thoughts?
Thanks.....


"The worst part of success is trying to find someone who is happy for you"

Bette Midler

Brother Phil
02-25-2003, 07:54 PM
For myself, I only do bench every 2 or 3 weeks. I'm trying to focus most attention to my upper chest, which doesn't grow as fast as the rest. I tend to get a better pump with a higher rep range. After a warm up, of 15 - 20 reps, I'll do 5 sets working from about 12 reps down to six. Most times though, I do dumbell workouts, doing inclines, flat, and then my personal favorite fly's, always keeping in the 12-6 rep range. I'll usually finish with a set of 8 or 10 reps. Dumbell chest workouts just are more effective for me personally.

MiloMan
02-25-2003, 07:58 PM
Neither "pump" nor "burn" are a reliable indicator of a good workout, nor is the lack thereof a reliable sign of a bad workout.

Eye2_Man
02-25-2003, 08:03 PM
Hey wspe, same thing here. But I figured it was due to not lifting heavy enough weights. But wait! I can't lift any heavier. Yes you can. Your chest can. But not your shoulders.

I have a feeling in your case and mine that our chest isn't getting worked hard enough because of shoulder strength.

What do you think? Does it make sense? (just asking, I don't know for sure)

Anomeley
02-25-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by wspe
I find that my chest rarely is PUMPED after benching. My arms and shoulders feel full and tight but not my chest.
Mind you I use more of a pl type workout; that is 5 work sets of three reps and then 5x5 close grip...
Any thoughts?
Thanks.....


"The worst part of success is trying to find someone who is happy for you"

Bette Midler

I do a few more sets, but like you I lift for strength and power. Maybe mixing up your lifts would help? I do flat / incline / decline BB in that order usually but sometimes I will use DB's and reverse that order. It just depends on how strong I am feeling when I walk in that day. If I feel lame then I go to DB's (which isn't too often) if not then I do my routine with a BB. Either case I get a good pump. IMO I would rather see you add another heavy set of 4-6 reps than do high rep low weight sets...probably just mental but I would feel like I was failing. I've got chest tomorrow as a matter of fact...WOOOOO HOOOOOO!!

Anomeley
02-25-2003, 08:13 PM
One after thought, you might throw out the close grips all together on chest day and put it with your tricep day where it belongs. I think you probably like to bench heavy like I do and I give triceps a day unto themselves, as you know, thats where a lot of your bench strength comes from. That is no doubt why your feeling it in your arms more than your chest. Good luck bro.

Brother Phil
02-25-2003, 08:14 PM
Just another thought I had reguarding bench press, which probably isn't the case with those who are in this forum, but worth mentioning. I'm sure we've all seen those gym members who are always trying to show off on bench press. They use their chest as a springboard and then arch their backs way off the bench to get up as much weight as possible. It's much more effective on the chest to control the weight down, pause, and then lift it back up. Focus your attention on the chest and the contraction of the pectoral muscles. I like to do the first few sets with my feet on the bench, as it makes you control the weight. When I get to heavier weights, I put my feet on the floor for stability.

TwoWalks
02-25-2003, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by wspe
I find that my chest rarely is PUMPED after benching. My arms and shoulders feel full and tight but not my chest.


For a whole lot of us, our arms give out before the chest is really bombed. One trick I was shown to hit the chest harder from the bench press is first to do chest fly's. This pre works the chest muscles and then the bench press finishes the job.

This is not recommended if you are working on setting a new bench record:)

giantfan43
02-25-2003, 08:36 PM
Just a thought here and in my personal experience, I get a much better work out from doing incline BB press and DB bench press .. I feel like i get a much better range of motion ... I always felt like the BB bench worked my shoulders and tri's more than my chest .. maybe it was my form but once I switched off the BB bench, I felt much better .. also, as Anomely said, I would save the close grip for tricep day .. that's where they belong

edster951
02-26-2003, 01:15 AM
try this...I've noticed a pump after it...

http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/ryan2.htm

I'm onto week 3

I'm heading for 264lbs (120kg).

then I goto onto lying cable flyes 3x10, with the cables coming from the bottom of the rack

then I stand and do 3x15 with the cables coming from the top...

then I do drop sets until with the standing cable flyes until I'm stuffed.

good pump.

Thats it for chest day. takes about 30 mins

Charger
02-26-2003, 04:36 AM
Do cable flyes, cable crossovers, DB flyes, anyone of these as a final exercise and really concentrate one the chest. Do 3 sets with 10 t0 12 reps, these are not about weight, you'll feel them.

MagicMel
02-26-2003, 09:06 AM
Just like Charger says, finish off your chest routine with flyes. This is a chest isolation exercise. The action with lying db flyes should be just like "hugging a tree".

When flat benching with a bar, try "relaxing" your grip as much as you can. This will reduce the tension in your arms, forcing your chest to do most of the work. I use an open palm grip on the bar. This keeps me from squeezing the bar, since the thumb is under and not around the bar. I visualize my arms as being wet noodles and concentrate on flexing my pecs at the same time.

Just my thoughts.

I also agree with Milo, that a lack of pump or burn is not necessarily a sign of a bad workout.

BTW, close grip benching is a tricep exercise.

GLAlexander
02-26-2003, 11:23 AM
Interesting discussion

I am finishing up a cycle of Incline Bench and was considering doing a 4 week cycle of Decline Bench. I never see much discussion on decline bench. Is it not considered a good exercise?

I also was interested in what would be considered a good starting weight. When I finished my flat bench cycle was I was doing 270x12x2 with a minutes rest between sets. I will finish up incline this Saturday at 240x12x2 with a minutes rest between sets. I appreciate any thoughts or ideas around this.

MiloMan
02-26-2003, 12:08 PM
"Pump" is not a reliable indicator of a good workout. Absence of "pump" is not a reliable indicator of a bad workout.

MagicMel
02-26-2003, 12:26 PM
GLA, when you say a cycle of incline, do you mean that incline bench is the only chest exercise that you're doing?

My current chest cycle is db flat bench, db incline press, flyes.
My next cycle will probably subsititute flat bench with declines and pec dec with flyes.

Declines are an excellent chest exercise. Like dips, I believe they target more of the lower pec region. I hope that statement doesn't bring on a discussion of whether or not it is possible to train just certain parts of certain muscles. Suffice it to say, declines make for hitting the pecs from a completely different angle, and that makes for a more developed chest.

BTW, with your doing 275x12x2 on flat bench, you should be the one giving ME chest advice. Heck, I was elated just to do 75# db bench for reps last week. I can barely deadlift 2 120's let alone bench them!

wspe
02-26-2003, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the replies you all....
Several have suggested moving triceps (close grip BP) to arm day or at least another day....
I don't have an arm day... I just use them after BP to hit the tri's

I am sure that having them with arms is right, it's just that I just do the three exercises generally....

I think I might try the flyes just to feel them.....

Any way thanks to you all.....

GLAlexander
02-26-2003, 05:50 PM
Magic Mel

Thanks for the compliment, but that wasn't the intent of my post. I am a big guy and I have been able to bench a fair amount of weight. There are people in this group who have forgotten more about this then I will ever know. My point was to try and get a baseline weight I should start out with on declines. Are they harder than inclines and flat bench?

Charger
02-26-2003, 07:22 PM
Declines are easier, just make sure you have a spotter if doing BB. If you fail with decline you can't simple rest the bar on your chest and roll it off, it will end up on your neck, not good.
As for tri's on the same day as chest. I like this method, this is actually my favorite style of routine(push-pull) which allows for the best recovery. You use tri's while doing bench anyway. I see nothing wrong with CGB for tri's on chest day, just don't count it as a set for chest, it's mostly tri's.

Big Ragoo
02-28-2003, 11:27 AM
Just my 2 cents

Got to change things up, if the muscles & nerves get used to the same routine over & over they will become more efficient at the movement and you will not grow.

Try changing rep ranges, exercises, add a superset (something different) and that may help.

Eye2_Man
03-13-2003, 10:17 AM
Here's a great article :
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=46

When you use this form of bench pressing, you get a lot more pump. Hopefully more results too.

Instead a wide grip elbows out form, try the Westside technique. Closer grip, elbows in, shoulder blades together.

henry
03-14-2003, 06:30 PM
maybe your spreading your hands to far apart during your bench press,i get a better pump at 10 reps,,also try flys for a good feel......

Belle
03-14-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by wspe
I find that my chest rarely is PUMPED after benching. My arms and shoulders feel full and tight but not my chest.
Mind you I use more of a pl type workout; that is 5 work sets of three reps and then 5x5 close grip...
Any thoughts?
Thanks.....

Same here also. I always work my chest first too so that whatever I am doing to it get's my full strength. I was trying to tone and build the pecs a little so that there would be some support for a sagging breast--by padding them out at the top a little with some muscle. However, I never come home feeling like I have done anything to my chest at all, although my arms feel wasted.

I'm only using the pec dec at the moment though, so I was thinking to switch to bench press to get better results. Is it better to start by using dumbells or by using barbells with that?

wspe
03-14-2003, 07:22 PM
Belle;

I use BB's for about everything; others probably prefer DB's...

Thanks for the responses all.....

Try Not. Do or Do Not. There is no try.
YODA

Belle
03-14-2003, 07:27 PM
Yeh I was thinking that BB's would be easier to control than trying to hold two DB's and go as heavy as possible. Well atleast to start with anyway. I may try it on chest day next week.

Charger
03-15-2003, 06:24 AM
Bear, what do you base that on? I agree inclines are very important, and dips are often left out of most routines and should be included but I still will always have a place for the bench press. I like DB's the best.

Eye2, I have also tried the narrow grip idea and I agree with pulling shoulder blades together and elbows in, BUT!! your grip is basically just a way of re-distributing the weight to each muscle group. The narrower the grip, the more tri-cep being used. For alot of folks this will help give you a little higher max and give you quick short term result. Just remember though, it is the chest you are trying to build and with a wider grip you put more of the stress on the chest. As your chest gets stronger you will also notice a wider grip results in less distance the bar has to travel resulting in higher maxes. Just the same a person with short arms, ever notice how alot of the folks at your gym with high bench maxes have short arms?
My advice is go with a somewhat wide grip, (not real wide) and train chest, it will pay of in the long run with a even higher one rep max.
Pulling the shoulder blades together is also good advice when doing squats.

Charger
03-15-2003, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Obadiah
I did start that reply with IMHO (In My Honest Opinion).


P.S. Mentzer had the same POV.

That's cool, just wondering what you based it on, I see Mentzer had some influence in this opinion.

I just look at it like if saying bench press is a waist then how do you feel about squats or deads? these are also major compound exercises which I believe are needed for mass gain.

Here we go again, hope Trish isn't reading this:D

Charger
03-15-2003, 07:45 AM
But please tell me what is WRONG with flat bench press? In your honest opinion?

I did my dips with flat bench yesterday, my chest is developing nicely also:D

I feel kinda funny saying my chest is developing nicely, kinda like I woke up in a teenage girls chat room:D

Gollum
03-15-2003, 08:11 AM
Charger,

That's pretty funny.Chest is developing nicely,eh?How's the hips coming along? :D

My current routine for chest is flat bench press(either BB or DB.I prefer BB),incline press(BB) and weighted dips.I believe after many years of trial and error I have hit paydirt.This is by far the best chest rountine I have ever done.The weighted dips were the final piece of the puzzle.Thanks to Max-Ot principles I found that I needed to add weight to hit the desired number of reps.I started out with a 25lb DB a few weeks ago.Now I can get 6 clean reps with a 50lb DB.It's freakin' nuts.Mentzer called dips the "Upper body squat".He wasn't too far off.

I still really like the bench press,though.I think it has a lot to do with bodytype.I am short,with very short arms,very Oompa Loompa-like if you will(Doompa dee doo).So for me,the bench press is very rewarding.I notice that very tall guys with especially long arms don't get the same feel from it.Sometimes DBs works better for them,or they just stick with inclines.Also,guys with very strong anterior deltoids often complain that they only feel the bench press in their shoulders.The delts are taking over.An old trick is to pre-exhaust the delts first with a shoulder exercise and then move on to the bench press.I know a couple of guys who liked doing this.I have no idea if it actually worked or it was all in their head but it's something to think about nonetheless.

Plus it's really cool to walk around all pumped up,chest sticking out asking "How much ya bench?"

Ok...maybe it isn't. :D

FYI,my current Max-Ot chest rountine:

Bench Press

Crazy warm ups followed by

3 sets of 6,6,4

Incline Press

3 sets of 6,6,4

Weighted Dips

3 sets of 6,6,4


Very simple and it's working great so far.

edster951
03-15-2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Charger
Just remember though, it is the chest you are trying to build and with a wider grip you put more of the stress on the chest. As your chest gets stronger you will also notice a wider grip results in less distance the bar has to travel resulting in higher maxes. When I was doing GVT on the benchpress, I would alternate my hands to wide/narrow with each set.

With the olymic bar its easy to do. Hands inside the ring first, then hands outside the ring the next set.

I also do them with my feet elevated and crossed. Stops the back arhing and isolates the chest more.

Just a wee tip I learned from here.

Macattack
03-15-2003, 03:16 PM
thats how i do my lighter lifting edster gets the abs more that way too..

Homie
03-15-2003, 05:03 PM
I must be one of the lucky ones, I get an incredible pump from flat bench. :D I think I could limit my chest day to just flat bench and would still see significant gains. Weighted dips on the other hand kill my shoulders (regardless of body position and depth of reps). It's just a matter of finding what works for you I guess. ;)

Charger
03-15-2003, 06:42 PM
I agree with bear that dips are a must, the problem I have is adding the needed weight. I now do dips with a 55lb DB straped on and the extra weight kills my wrist at that angle. Total weight plus my own puts that at 265. Now I can bench more with no problem to wrist, any advise?

Homie
03-15-2003, 08:36 PM
I assume you mean that dips are a must for you, because I know far more people who don't dip than do. ;) As for the wrist pain you are in a quandry I think. If you remain more upright to ease the strain on your wrists you shift the emphasis to your triceps. All I can suggest is wrap your wrists pretty tight when you do your set and unwrap them between sets. That or use the same weight but slow down the tempo of your reps. Either way be careful as wrist pain can become a chronic condition that will affect your entire lifting regimen...take care.

Macattack
03-17-2003, 01:02 AM
Theres a machine at my gym, its a seated bench press, handles are in front of you, if i want a great pump i use that machine its slightly reclined also and i pyramid up and back down, its a great machine and not sure why it works so well.....

Belle
03-17-2003, 02:40 AM
I did bench press for the first time tonight. All I can say is wow! I'm a fan. Makes a change from other stuff that I have been doing anyway.

edster951
03-17-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Belle
I did bench press for the first time tonight. All I can say is wow! I'm a fan. Makes a change from other stuff that I have been doing anyway. A change is always needed...keeps the body guessing