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View Full Version : I don't think your over simplifying it..



Belle
02-25-2003, 01:37 PM
How many of us are no good after we have had a bad night's sleep? I mean many people only have them once or twice every few months if they have stresses or something is bothering them, but to have it nightly, well, I think the lack of quality of sleep can even affect the way your immune system works or how you recover from illness nevermind weight training. Thats because the vast majority of repair goes on at night when you body is in rest. Calcium is laid in bones then, and tissues repair at that time
MORE than at any other time of the day.

The Endo used to have us dosing 10mg of cortisol (the highest dose of the day) just so that there would be "some" cortisol by the time 3am came around and the adrenals'ramped up at that time for the day. It turns our ironically that many people on steroids are told to take the dose at 10pm or late before bed. Studies show that cortisol levels are basically so low as to be barely traceable at that time from midnight onwards. So people are taking what is the highest dse at a time when their bodies don't need it. Consequently also, the drug is metabolised more slowly in inactivity (9 hours) and is SO high that it defeats the ability for calcium to be laid in bones which grow a lot in rest and also tissue repair cannot take place sometimes. There are side effects with growth itself in children from that dose time to when the drug falls low enough for them to make 17 OHP and then from that point their bodies over compensate literally making TOO much 17 OHP and androgens, which is rapid growth zone. So although they DO grow at night, it is the wrong type of steady exposure to growth hormone. They end up usually much shorter than the average height in the population. Usually this occur's from 3am onwards from studies done. I mean they make time release pills for other med's and of ALL med's that need a time release mechanism because of the way the body works--it is steroids! So people getting their dose there end up with low bone mineral density and weak bones. That's why I give a last dose at 5pm to Ash and then we get up at 3am and dose 5mg there where the adrenals would ramp up. For years he would not sleep properly and not only this but his GH (which is suppressed by high levels of cortisol and peaks mostly at night when your asleep) was being suppressed and then because hydrocortisone only has a biological life of 6-8 hours, at around 3am when the adrenals ramp up, the levels they gave at 10pm are SO low that there isn't enough to cover a CAH kid anyway and they start to make androgens. They studied this in the UK and did profiles of kids drawing off bloods from a group of children over two or three days with this condition.

I think it is easy to shrug off high cortisol levels and say they don't do any harm when they are related to prolonged stress, or in the way of not getting enough quality of sleep to get a repsite from them as you SHOULD do every night so that GH can do IT'S job, but eventually over time, a problem like that causes lot's of health problems. Sorting out the root cause--sleep deprivation--is somewhat more lengthy and difficult perhaps than issuing drugs for depression, stress or sleeping tablet's, but at the ned of the day, the drugs have side-effects all of their own often and don't fix the problem in the long term.

Belle
02-25-2003, 02:16 PM
Inadvertantly started a new thread here in response to Patmel - low test. Apologies. :)

Belle
02-25-2003, 02:38 PM
Mel may be interested in the first one ;)

http://www.gsdl.com/news/connections/vol13/conn20010801.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10442584&dopt=Abstract

This study is about GH reduction as you age, but it demonstrates that studies done in the past may be unreliable as they now possibly feel it may be due to adult onset GH deficiency in some cases. I guess anything is possible and it may explain why some people age more quickly than other's.

I think that it is merely a lot to do with sleep. You hear a lot of older people talk about how they get by on less sleep and don't sleep as long. Possibly this means that they have higher cortisol levels and less exposure to the HGH that is secreted mainly in sleep. Sleep longer = get more exposure. Sleep less = less exposure. Why DO they sleep for less time? Is it something that occurs naturally, or is it because they slow down, and don't expend normal ecvery day stresses with physical exercise the majority of the time.

I spoke to an Aunt last night and told her I had damaged my knee. I said I was on a weight training program. Of course as soon as the words were out of my gob I wish I had not bothered because her very next words were, "As you get older, your slow to heal." My attitutude is, that if you let yourself slip and don't stay fit, you don't sleep as soundly because you haven't "tired" yourself out physically enough half the time--->your GH levels naturally decline and no... your not going to heal as quickly as you did when you were young and you had more energy. Again---it's a case of use it or lose it..LOL! :)

tracyb555
02-25-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Belle
Of course as soon as the words were out of my gob I wish I had not bothered because her very next words were, "As you get older, your slow to heal." My attitutude is, that if you let yourself slip and don't stay fit, you don't sleep as soundly because you haven't "tired" yourself out physically enough half the time--->your GH levels naturally decline and no... your not going to heal as quickly as you did when you were young and you had more energy. Again---it's a case of use it or lose it..LOL! :)

At 38, I feel better now than I did at 30. And after running a marathon in October, I felt physically fine within a couple of days. So if THAT isn't quick to heal, I don't know what is!!!

I frequently don't get enough sleep, but I'm working on that one. I sleep soundly once I get in bed, but end up staying up late for any number of reasons.

Hibiscus09
02-25-2003, 02:54 PM
I can't function without sleep. It wipes me out to have insomnia or something that keeps me up later than usual. I have to have at the very least 6 hours, but optimally 8 hours. Even with 6 hours, I feel really draggy & need a nap (don't say anything -- Lats!!).

little lats
02-25-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Hibiscus09
I can't function without sleep. It wipes me out to have insomnia or something that keeps me up later than usual. I have to have at the very least 6 hours, but optimally 8 hours. Even with 6 hours, I feel really draggy & need a nap (don't say anything -- Lats!!).

Okay Okay.

Hibiscus09
02-25-2003, 04:04 PM
:)

Original Poster
02-25-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by tracyb555
......but end up staying up late for any number of reasons.

Me too :D:D:D

Belle
02-25-2003, 06:27 PM
At 38, I feel better now than I did at 30. And after running a marathon in October, I felt physically fine within a couple of days. So if THAT isn't quick to heal, I don't know what is!!!

Well with the exception of the recent events, I felt much better physically than I ever have since my teens! Thats even though I am not even to goal yet. I was kind of assuming therefore that when at goal, I'll feel like a teen again. I think I just rushed a few stesp to far ahead and stuffed it up a little, but I am determined to get there.

LOL Gator...well there are some things that induce a good night's sleep... and since I can't eat chocolate at the moment and had my tubes tied... well guess there are no worries now, so I sleep better night's LOL!!! :)

Minotaur
02-26-2003, 07:21 AM
I commented briefly about sleep in the Low Testosterone thread.

I get only abour 6 hours of sleep on an average night. This is far too little, and it's killing me. I'm one of those people that needs 8-9 hours of undisturbed sleep. I wear a sleep mask and use earplugs, because if a bird farts, it wakes me up.

Last night I was in bed and asleep from 7pm to 5:30am today. It was a pretty solid sleep. Now I feel great; like I could kick the world's butt 'til hell won't have it anymore.

Unfortunately I don't get to sleep until 11-11:30pm or so; the alarm goes off at 5:30am. On Sundays I wind up sleeping until 9-9:30am, and then feel crappy for wasting the morning. Yet on the other hand, I am still tired.

Fortunately I am sleeping more soundly. I switched my GH injection to the morning (hGH replacement is said to cause sleeplessness), and I take a cal/mag supplement at bedtime.

patmel
02-26-2003, 12:24 PM
Belle,

I just found your thread.

I don't recall if I mentioned it before, but until recently, I was taking Ambien 3-4 times a week and Vicoden (for a recurring injury pain) at one pill a day for over a year. Well, I stopped taking them about three weeks ago, and I am noticing some slow changes in my body form. I am getting leaner and I can feel my muscles actually working when I'm at the gym. I am starting to believe that maybe taking the meds were part of my problem.

Last night, I had about 5 hours of sleep, which is typical. I think you get to the point where you get somewhat accustomed to it but still don't feel as alive as you should. I try to take an afternoon nap (my job permits) but rarely can fall asleep. I assume nothing is better than 7-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep though.

I always use to assume that if one is eating well and following a strict quality training program that success has to follow. Not so.I am really getting more of the big picture now. Overall health has to be in order too.

Belle
02-26-2003, 05:07 PM
I wear a sleep mask and use earplugs, because if a bird farts, it wakes me up.

Another problem is spider's and creepy crawlies....I am terrible if I see a spider on the ceiling, it has to be removed from the house or I cannot sleep! However, the celing is like 10 foot stud and I am a short @$$ so I can never reach them. Last night it was this big furry moth from hell and I could not catch the SOB due to being slightly crippled. So I had to get one of the kids up at 12:00 midnight to catch it before I would go to sleep. When it rains every drip from the guttering keeps me awake I am such a light sleeper. Also, every spring the birds nest in the upper wall of the bedroom above the window--dunno how they get in we were supposed to seal it off this year) and then I hear them scratching in the wall. Drives me mental actually, especially when the chicks hatch and start scratching around.

Hibiscus09
02-26-2003, 05:16 PM
There was a cricket in my kitchen once & I didn't want to touch it. (Hilarious because when I was little I used to fish with them!) Anyway, noone was home so I took the broom & was trying to sweep him along. He jumped in the dishwasher so I shut it & ran the cycle! LOL

LateStart
02-26-2003, 07:28 PM
Sleep - now there's something I haven't gotten in years. No trouble going to sleep, but I wake up around 3:30 every morning!

I've tried sleeping pills, melatonin, beer, beer + pills in desperation, nothing works. I've just learned to cope and sometimes take sudaphed during the day as it gives me a boost.

Belle
02-26-2003, 09:23 PM
Are cricket's like cicadas? I think they make a different noise like a chirrup don't they. Cicadas...that's one noise I do like and it send's me off to sleep in the Summer. It sounds quite relaxing to listen to. Lol at dishwasher... I haven't shoved anything "alive" in mine yet to my knowledge. I've burnt kitchen knives in there though on the elements and really stunk the place out with the smell. :)

Belle
02-26-2003, 09:52 PM
These damn things are absolutely evil...

I was once sat on an easy chair on my deck outside doing my cross stitch and I felt a scratch on my arm and it was one of these guys. I tell you I was about 6 months pregnant at the time and I jumped up so fast and let out this gut wrenching howl that I nearly started in labour. My husband came dashing outside as he said it sounded as he thought I had really hurt myself.

It's your friendly neighbourhood weta... they really give me the eebie geebies...