pull ups versus chin ups

[DiamondDelts]

my biceps are worked hard during pullups too but it's just MORE so during chins that have the bicep in a more dominant position than in pullups, I don't care what Defiant or his 5000 books say, they're DIFFERENT exercises.

funny, I never got much out of nuetral (hammer) grip, I always felt my lats best doing chinups (fairly close grip) and bent-rows, but if I had to choose one it would be chins, used to feel lats alot in deadlifts but nowadays it's almost all lower back.

Well I believe that is because chins/pullups mainly stretch the shoulder girdle and lats. While chins/pullups with a narrow grip are in line with the lats natural line of pull and work them from the lat belly up.

Though I can work my lats on damn near any exercise. Hell I can flex them while I am driving in my car. They used to be hardest muscle for me to "feel" while training them. Now my mind-muscle connection with them is flawless.

[kethnaab]

Lord, how tough is this?

the supination or pronation of your hands has ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING RELEVANCE to lat involvement

none. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Why? Because the lats don't cross the damn wrists.

All that matters is the motion the humerus goes through. If it is in front of the body i.e. close grip, then it will involve the lats different than if the humerus passes to the side i.e. wide grip. Is the pull straight up and down (i.e. BTN/adduction) or is there a slight angle in the line of pull, i.e. wide grip front pullups = adduction + extension

As for biceps involvement, who the hell cares? I have yet to meet anyone who can curl their bodyweight for repetitions, but I've met a whole lot of people that can chin (or pull!) their bodyweight for repetitions.

Know what that tells me? That the idea that "chinups work the biceps way more than lats" is pure BS.

Which one is going to be easier? Depends on what you normally do. If you specialize in hammer grip chins, then chances are good you'll also be better at hammer grip curls versus conventional curls. Why?

Because that's what you do a whole helluva lot more often. There are quite a few people that can do far more supinated pullups than hammer grip pullups simply because they have done supinated curls for so long (typical bench/biceps jockeys)

Blah. What a bunch of fooey here.

Oh yeah, Kingdom Come, you're a jackass and a douchebag, and as a result, you received a much deserved neg for your retarded comments involving Defiant and W8.

Oh yeah, your statements were wrong, as well.

[DiamondDelts]

Lord, how tough is this?

the supination or pronation of your hands has ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING RELEVANCE to lat involvement

none. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Why? Because the lats don't cross the damn wrists.

All that matters is the motion the humerus goes through. If it is in front of the body i.e. close grip, then it will involve the lats different than if the humerus passes to the side i.e. wide grip. Is the pull straight up and down (i.e. BTN/adduction) or is there a slight angle in the line of pull, i.e. wide grip front pullups = adduction + extension

As for biceps involvement, who the hell cares? I have yet to meet anyone who can curl their bodyweight for repetitions, but I've met a whole lot of people that can chin (or pull!) their bodyweight for repetitions.

Know what that tells me? That the idea that "chinups work the biceps way more than lats" is pure BS.

Which one is going to be easier? Depends on what you normally do. If you specialize in hammer grip chins, then chances are good you'll also be better at hammer grip curls versus conventional curls. Why?

Because that's what you do a whole helluva lot more often. There are quite a few people that can do far more supinated pullups than hammer grip pullups simply because they have done supinated curls for so long (typical bench/biceps jockeys)

Blah. What a bunch of fooey here.

Oh yeah, Kingdom Come, you're a jackass and a douchebag, and as a result, you received a much deserved neg for your retarded comments involving Defiant and W8.

Oh yeah, your statements were wrong, as well.

Whoo! The big man got all worked up here. Though I absolutely agree. I don't see the major difference between the two either.

[EoR]

Wow.

There is no verses here, you do both.

[papi93]

Because Stone Cold said so?

All that's the bottom line cuz...

[Defiant1]

Or the old "a thumbless grip takes out the biceptz"

But seriously, Defiant can wave that ghey study in my face all day, but you can't expect the same exact muscle involvement in two different exercises like that.

A reverse curl doesn't work the biceps the same as a regular curl. Why would a pronated pull-up work the biceps the same as a supinated pull-up.

If your hands are in the same position as a reverse curl when you are doing wide grip chins, then you are not doing wide grip chins. A WIDE grip chin will have your palms/thumbs/biceps parallel...just like a hammer chin. You sound you are describing "wide grip chins" as the chin ups done in boot camp.

The question about biceps is not "different" but MORE.

I totally agree that a hammer grip works the bicep differently than a supinated grip....

But DIFFERENT is not MORE..

Why is that concept so difficult to understand?

I use the studies to point out what I know from experience, and you damned well know it....

people are taking exercises and making friggin' demagogues out of them.

Deadlifts for lats, Chins for biceps; nothing else needed. A load of stinking fly infested festering crap.

Arnold, Franco, Scott....hell EVERYONE was wrong when they called Wide grip chins....Wide grip chins...because some clown on the internet says so. That they are "pull-ups".....

Give me a break.


A bunch of phucking bull****.

[kethnaab]

I think the myth arises from the days of gradeschool when some knucklehead gym teacher delineated the imaginary dichotomy.

now, it has become almost standard fare, kinda like calling a "tissue" a "kleenex".

it's not a kleenex, kleenex is a brand, but when you say "kleenex", everyone knows what you're talking about.

many people now associate "chinups" with the supinated pullup and "pullups" as any exercise done with a pronated grip, with hammer grip exercises being described as "hammer chins" or "hammer pullups"

it's a matter of semantics, and is, essentially, irrelevant.

[Canadian Iron]

it's a matter of semantics, and is, essentially, irrelevant.

Meh quit crying about it.

*hands kethnaab a kleenex*

[kethnaab]

Meh quit crying about it.

*hands kethnaab a kleenex*

*wipes his ass on the kleenex and hands it back to CI*

[W8isGR8]

I think the myth arises from the days of gradeschool when some knucklehead gym teacher delineated the imaginary dichotomy.

now, it has become almost standard fare, kinda like calling a "tissue" a "kleenex".

it's not a kleenex, kleenex is a brand, but when you say "kleenex", everyone knows what you're talking about.

many people now associate "chinups" with the supinated pullup and "pullups" as any exercise done with a pronated grip, with hammer grip exercises being described as "hammer chins" or "hammer pullups"

it's a matter of semantics, and is, essentially, irrelevant.

Yeah, but I'd rather just say "hand me a coke" instead of "please pass me a refreshing cola flavored carbonated soft drink"

[kethnaab]

Yeah, but I'd rather just say "hand me a coke" instead of "please pass me a refreshing cola flavored carbonated soft drink"

I like Pepsi better than Coke, so I wouldn't say "hand me a Coke".

Also beware who you say "hand me a coke" to.

If someone hands you a mirror, please understand, that ain't creatine on the mirror.

[W8isGR8]

I like Pepsi better than Coke, so I wouldn't say "hand me a Coke".

Also beware who you say "hand me a coke" to.

If someone hands you a mirror, please understand, that ain't creatine on the mirror.

*Wipes nose*


Uh......No wonder my intensity levels have been through the roof.

[nitrored]

*dusts off nose*

If someone hands you a mirror, please understand, that ain't creatine on the mirror.

***damn you W8!!!

[kethnaab]

*Wipes nose*


Uh......No wonder my intensity levels have been through the roof.

*twitching*

GADDA...ISAYGADDAYAMM!!!!!

THIS CREATINE IS THA BOMMMMBAY-BEE!!!

*twitches and begins clawing at his nostrils*

[One More Time]

I like Pepsi better than Coke, so I wouldn't say "hand me a Coke".

Down here, Pepsi is a Coke too. I don't care what you call it as long as it is not pop...man I hate that...lol

[SparkyD]

at the end of the day any pull-up/chin-up grip with give ya big bi's and lats with the correct diet

[Defiant1]

it's a matter of semantics, and is, essentially, irrelevant.

It is irrelevant except the arrogance of thinking that internet 150 lbs are correct and EVERYONE who trained prior to this "revelation" was wrong....


that arrogance torques me.

[Defiant1]

Yeah, but I'd rather just say "hand me a coke" instead of "please pass me a refreshing cola flavored carbonated soft drink"

Nice straw-man.

I guess if you want "Cherry-coke" you are **** out of luck since there is no one word name for it.

I'd love to see you order wine or beer. You must drink a lot of generic ****.

What if you have to say "palms up" or "palms forward" you get all flustered?

Must be a bitch to say "hammer grip".

[W8isGR8]

Nice straw-man.

I guess if you want "Cherry-coke" you are **** out of luck since there is no one word name for it.

I'd love to see you order wine or beer. You must drink a lot of generic ****.

What if you have to say "palms up" or "palms forward" you get all flustered?

Must be a bitch to say "hammer grip".

Hammer chins are just easier than "Neutral grip pull-ups"

You're the one getting all butt-hurt over nomenclature...

This reminds me of AJ always getting pissed off over "skull-crushers", instead of calling them "proper-formed lying triceps extensions"

[kethnaab]

mrrrweeeeeooowwrrr!!!!!!!!

*hisses and bares claws*

you two...back to your corners. I order you both to eat a pound of pasta and get the sand out of your vaginas...this premenstrual hypoglycemia you're both experiencing is giving me a rash.


MRRWOWOOEEEEOOOOWWWWRRRR!!!!!

[Defiant1]

Hammer chins are just easier than "Neutral grip pull-ups"

You're the one getting all butt-hurt over nomenclature...

This reminds me of AJ always getting pissed off over "skull-crushers", instead of calling them "proper-formed lying triceps extensions"

There is a difference between defending what a huge majority think and have thought from internet bull**** "newspeak" and declaring things renamed because AJ thinks so...

I am defending the status quo. $AJ was in fact doing the opposite of what I am doing...

PLUS it was what the original poster asked.......

[Hola Bola]

Down here, Pepsi is a Coke too. I don't care what you call it as long as it is not pop...man I hate that...lol

I grew up in Iowa and everyone called it 'Pop'... then I moved to Missouri and everyone called it 'Soda'... I've yet to go someplace where 'Coke' is all-encompassing. If you ask me for a Coke, you're going to get a Coke.

[W8isGR8]

I grew up in Iowa and everyone called it 'Pop'... then I moved to Missouri and everyone called it 'Soda'... I've yet to go someplace where 'Coke' is all-encompassing. If you ask me for a Coke, you're going to get a Coke.

Texas....

[kethnaab]

I grew up in Iowa and everyone called it 'Pop'... then I moved to Missouri and everyone called it 'Soda'... I've yet to go someplace where 'Coke' is all-encompassing. If you ask me for a Coke, you're going to get a Coke.

I grew up in Pittsburgh, and everyone called it "pop". I joined the military and moved to Washington, and everyone calls it "soda"

If you ask me for "coke", I'm going to call the police.

Texas....

San Antonio? That's the only place in Tejas where I've spent any significant time

[SDFlip]

anyone call them soft drinks still?

[nitrored]

anyone call them soft drinks still?

Where I am everyone calls it soda. They would know what you were talking about if you said soft drink (most menus say that). If you called it pop, people would know what you are saying but wonder what is wrong with you...

[papi93]

Where I am everyone calls it soda. They would know what you were talking about if you said soft drink (most menus say that). If you called it pop, people would know what you are saying but wonder what is wrong with you...

Soda is in a bottle. Pop is in a can.

[Canadian Iron]

It's all pop there is no soda.

[Defiant1]

I was poppin' and lockin' this morning on the street corner..

corrected.

[nitrored]

"Soft drink" commonly refers to cold, carbonated, non-alcoholic beverages in the United States. Carbonated beverages are regionally known as:

"Coke", in most of the South, including New Mexico and much of eastern and southern Oklahoma. Some older generations of Southerners refer to soft drinks as "dope".[citation needed]
"Pop" in most of the upper Midwest and into the western part of the Northeast, including such cities as Cleveland, Ohio; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; Detroit, Michigan; Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota; Erie, Pennsylvania and Buffalo, NY; and stretching as far east as Rochester, New York; west up to and including the Pacific Northwest; and as far south as the northern half of Oklahoma. The majority of the state of Michigan (including the Upper Peninsula), especially the Metro Detroit area specifically call soft drinks "Pop" (Faygo, a brand of soft drink made in Detroit is an example of this). In the lower Midwest, such as southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and the Cincinnati, Ohio area, "soft drink" predominates (which is why the term is used in Kroger stores, which is Cincinnati-based). The state of Colorado also uses the term "pop."
"Soda" in the Northeast, the Southwest (California, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas, parts of South Florida (near Miami), and parts of the Midwest (around St. Louis and parts of Wisconsin, especially in the East, and around Milwaukee).
"Tonic" is used in South Boston, Massachusetts, as well as isolated communities in Eastern New England.
"Soda pop" is used by some speakers especially in the mountain west.
"Drink", "cold drink", and "soda" are locally common in southern Virginia and the Carolinas, spreading from there as far as Louisiana.
"Cold drink" is the phrase of choice in New Orleans, Louisiana.
See The Great Pop vs. Soda Controversy for maps and geographical trends. Many of the website's correspondents are emotionally attached to their particular term and express disdain for the use of any other.
At many restaurants in the U.S., one finds that the products of only a single major beverage producer, such as The Coca-Cola Company or PepsiCo, are available. While patrons requesting a "coke" may be truly indifferent as to which cola brand they receive, the careful server will confirm intent with a question like "Is Pepsi ok?" Similarly, 7 Up or Sprite may indicate whichever clear, carbonated, citrus-flavoured drink happens to be at hand. The generic uses of these brand names does not affect the local usage of the words "pop" or "soda", to mean any carbonated beverage

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