muscle growth

[mr cole]

So if I understand correctly you have to lift until complete failure to achieve muscle growth.
Here’s an example of what I do, is it ok?
140 pounds
3x12
160 pounds
3x10
180 pounds
2x7
200 pounds
1x3 (complete failure)

[stahlhart]

So if I understand correctly you have to lift until complete failure to achieve muscle growth.
Here’s an example of what I do, is it ok?
140 pounds
3x12
160 pounds
3x10
180 pounds
2x7
200 pounds
1x3 (complete failure)

You can curl WAY more than I can...!

/hint, hint

[namtrag]

don't see where he said he was curling.

[Aquilius]

Thats the "hint" about. 200lbs x 3 for BB curls would be great. For a deadlift it wouldn't be remarkable.

you have to lift until complete failure to achieve muscle growth.

Wrong.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Both Failure and Non-Failure resulted in similar gains[...]. Failure group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase after Non-Failure resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after Failure it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to Failure resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas Non-Failure resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of Non-Failure for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance.

Regards,
Aquilius

[mr cole]

What about if in some other exercise I don’t have the necessary weight.
Is it ok to use?
For example: 70 pounds
5x25
4x18
Until complete failure
Is it still good?

[carbkilla]

Don't go to failure, it puts a big strain on your nervious system and it's not nessassary.


CK

[rallen]

Don't go to failure, it puts a big strain on your nervious system and it's not nessassary.


CK

I agree. I use to go to failure in my training on every set in the past. But recently, using the 5x5 program, I only go to failure on the last set. I have seen much better results.

[greggamma]

I agree. I use to go to failure in my training on every set in the past. But recently, using the 5x5 program, I only go to failure on the last set. I have seen much better results.

Yeah, I do the 5x5 and usually fail on the 4th or 5th set. I do notice that the mass and strength go well but for me the stamina dropped down. All the other jocks talk, and rightly so, whatever ups your testoterone and growth hormones is great. Diet and supplements did not seem to work any miracles but natural drugs in my body did. I can see why others go to steroids to meet heir goals. From what I have read and experienced you get growth doing any muscle group but to get a nice systemic bump in those levels squat, bench and deadlift. I even tried the non-taditional methods but whatever makes you reach deep, push hard works well.

[mr cole]

Sorry about my ignorance, but 5x5 does it mean 5 sets of 5 repetitions?
And do I increase weight after every set?

[stahlhart]

Sorry about my ignorance, but 5x5 does it mean 5 sets of 5 repetitions? And do I increase weight after every set?

That's correct -- but I think that the weight stays consistent for all of the sets done. I think that the idea is to go for the most challenging weight that you can, but still get five reps out with good form.

/at least that's the approach I try to take

[Oregonian]

There are as many opinions on what causes hypertrophy as there are programs. All work to some degree. Keep reading and learning. I personally believe in HST which in short is a full body workout done every other day with progressive loading on both weights and reps dropping as the weights increase.

[Mark1T]

I have to disagree with a couple of you. Going to failure for me, is an absolute must, but when your workouts are intense, it is necessary to listen to your body to know when to back off a little, using Periodization. But, if I do back off, it is not much and it isn't more than 1 workout.

On all of my bodyparts, I go to failure every week at some point.

Also, in my personal experience, the more conditioned you are, the easier you adapt and overcome going to failure.

[mr cole]

I’m still wondering if even with lighter weight I can still grow by using more rep?

[Hey-Iwas51]

I’m still wondering if even with lighter weight I can still grow by using more rep?

I've been reading that theoretically, to grow, for however many reps you do, you need to be lifting somewhere near the 80 to 85% of your "one rep max". That is, if you were to just try to lift the load one time, how much could you lift... take 80% of that and you have found the minimum you want to work with if you want to grow bigger.

Now, first thing is DO NOT run out and load up the bar to some huge number of pounds and try to figure out what your max is... never do that unless you are warmed up and have a spotter. (What really happens is, you never technically find out what your one rep max is, because you have always warmed up before trying it.)

I've been doing this for two years now, and have not maxed out yet... At my age I think it is kind of dangerous to "max out" working alone in my basement. So what I do is make an educated guess as to what my one rep max is, by deternining how much I can lift either three sets of 10 or, say like the guys that are doing 5x5 and failing on the last set... I would guess that the weight you can lift 5x5, failing on the last set will get you really close to the 80% range. I test that every now and then by going for say just three reps... can get pretty close that way.

Just my un-educated $.02

Dan

[Bob45]

I’m still wondering if even with lighter weight I can still grow by using more rep?

Yes, there are many ways. As long as you keep progressing. Shoot for increases somehow. Reps, weight, shorter rest.

[glvfmly]

I Always Heard, More Reps= Definition And Strength, More Wt = Mass And Strength?....

[mr cole]

I Always Heard, More Reps= Definition And Strength, More Wt = Mass And Strength?....

thats interesting

[BergMuscle]

I Always Heard, More Reps= Definition And Strength, More Wt = Mass And Strength?....

The "rule of thumb" that I've heard, and used with good results, is 3-5 reps builds strength, 5-8 reps builds mass, 8-12 reps builds endurance.

Having said that, Cole, do what you can with what you got. Like Bob45 said, as long as you increase what your doing, you will see progress. Just that some combinations of weight/reps/sets tend to produce different results.

My $0.02.

[Mark1T]

You have to experiment with different rep routines and different exercises and set amounts, because what is good for me, may not be good for another.

This process can take months (or years, if you are not a member of the Over 35 Forum), but if you use a jounral, say in Excel, after approximately 2 months, you can analyze the data you have made, and you will be able to see where you made gains, where you maintained, and where you lost strength.

Using that data, you can make adjustments for your current and future workouts. However, the more conditioned you become, the deviations will change, as well. So, you will be regularly adjusting your workouts.

Note: If you do make a journal, you must commit, because if you start missing workouts or start not to eat right or not take in enough protein, then your journal will be skewed and meaningless. Try your best to keep the things you can control, to a constant.

[mr cole]

thanks guys.

[Turboboy]

I Always Heard, More Reps= Definition And Strength, More Wt = Mass And Strength?....

Diet and cardio= more definition

If you can manage to turn your weight training session into a cardio workout by doing super sets etc. with very little rest, then yes, you will have more definition due to the added cardio benefit. Just doing high reps isn't going to do anything if you're resting five minutes between sets.

Rule of Thumb for reps rangesI didn't make these up)
1-6 powerlifting or strength
8-12 muscular growth
12 and beyond muscular endurance

You just need to figure out what your goals are and use the rep range that applies. Of course, it's always a good idea to change things up frequently.

As for going to failure, I personally have never used that method too much. But there are different levels of failure. Failure is when you can't complete another rep without assistance from a spotter. Total failure is when you can't move the weight at all, even with assistance. I may, on occasion, go to failure but rarely if ever complete failure.

[V-240]

The other day I watched an old "Flex Magazine" show on HLC from 1993. Shawn Ray read a viewer letter that asked, "What is better for development? More sets, or more weight?" I liked his answer, "More sets, more weight, more food, more rest! More, more, more!!"

Pretty much says it all!