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  1. #1
    Registered User Zenkei18's Avatar
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    Can you build muscle without carbs?

    Ok, like say you have some before and after workout, but other than that don't have any? Is it really hard to gain muscle that way?
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  2. #2
    The Alchemist badreligion's Avatar
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    idk i dont think it would be possible

    i mean what do carbs turn into in your body ..glycogen ...what do you use up when you workout , glycogen

    so no glycogen , no muscle stimulation or growth
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  3. #3
    Registered User viciouspoultry's Avatar
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    Well Protein can be synthesised to Carbohydrates so you can could not eat carbs as long as you eat protein and eventually gain weight, but will gain weight faster by eating everything in balance.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Zenkei18's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    idk i dont think it would be possible

    i mean what do carbs turn into in your body ..glycogen ...what do you use up when you workout , glycogen

    so no glycogen , no muscle stimulation or growth
    yeah but i heard that if you take in carbs and dont use them then your body stores them as fat... is this just applicable to simple carbs and carbs with a high GI?
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  5. #5
    The Alchemist badreligion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zenkei18 View Post
    yeah but i heard that if you take in carbs and dont use them then your body stores them as fat... is this just applicable to simple carbs and carbs with a high GI?
    complex carbs *such as oatmeal , grits , baked and sweet potatos , brown rice whole grain breads* they digest slower so they stay in your body longer so they wont be broken down into fat

    where as the simple carbs comming from fruit , sports drinks *gatoraid* , regular sodas and what not the reason they are reccomended to take after a workout is cause your body has no glycogen in it and you want a quick road to recovery

    so complex carbs - no

    simple carbs- yes
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  6. #6
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    Carbs are only anabolic in the presence of protein. Eating an abundance of carbs without enough protein does you no good.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by viciouspoultry View Post
    Well Protein can be synthesised to Carbohydrates so you can could not eat carbs as long as you eat protein and eventually gain weight, but will gain weight faster by eating everything in balance.
    You cannot "turn" one marconutrient into another. Protien can be broken down and used for energy in the absence of carbs (see ketogenic), but you will not be in an anabolic state. Growth will not happen without carbs as glucose shuttles amino acids into the muscles.
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  8. #8
    Registered User lostov78's Avatar
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    Wink

    Originally Posted by SleepLifter View Post
    You cannot "turn" one marconutrient into another. Protien can be broken down and used for energy in the absence of carbs (see ketogenic), but you will not be in an anabolic state. Growth will not happen without carbs as glucose shuttles amino acids into the muscles.
    It is actually "turning" the protein into glucose via the liver when the carbs are limited! And the process it is called - gluconeogenesis. You CAN be in anabolic state when your caloric intake is on surplus! The glucose it is not shuttle the aminos in the muscles itself,but the insulin produced by the glucose does it! And after weight training your insulin is elevated,so no need much of it to shuttle whatever. Another question is to replenish glycogen levels in muscle,but also not much needed for low intensity weight training as you can learn you body to rely primary on fats for such a kind of activity! Another questions is but the high intensive and endurance trainings!
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  9. #9
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    the amount of protein needed to grow only by taking it is too dam high, it would make your kidneys die in one year hahahahaha
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  10. #10
    Registered User lostov78's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by digaum1802 View Post
    the amount of protein needed to grow only by taking it is too dam high, it would make your kidneys die in one year hahahahaha
    To "grow" you need caloric surplus! The % between the macros in your diet and the type of physical activity you doing determine what kind of tissue you are going to "grow"!
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    You not only need carbs for a healthy diet, you should want them for your main source of energy. Your diet should consist of at least 45% carbs or your diet it no healthy
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  12. #12
    Registered User lostov78's Avatar
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    Could you explain me,if I am an obese person with leptin and insulin resistance developed,I WOULD need carbs?! As long as it is not derived from fruits and veggies only let's say?!?



    Originally Posted by Thewood45 View Post
    You not only need carbs for a healthy diet, you should want them for your main source of energy. Your diet should consist of at least 45% carbs or your diet it no healthy
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by lostov78 View Post
    To "grow" you need caloric surplus! The % between the macros in your diet and the type of physical activity you doing determine what kind of tissue you are going to "grow"!
    i know im just saying that to have a surplus u will need a lot of protein, wich is not healthy for your body
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  14. #14
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    carbs are your bodies main source of energy
    why would you just have it before and after your workout
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  15. #15
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by thousandmiles View Post
    carbs are your bodies main source of energy
    why would you just have it before and after your workout
    A lot of people go on a low carb diet in order to cut body fat. Since during an absence of carbs your body will look elsewhere for energy i.e. proteins and body fat. But as previously mentioned you need carbs and a caloric surplus in order to build muscle and gain weight. no carbs=no gains. i think the intent behind the original question was to see if there was a way to get enough carbs so your body builds muscle, while at the same time attempting to keep your body burning its own fat as a primary source of energy, which i really dont see happening.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by ArceyoMinyin View Post
    A lot of people go on a low carb diet in order to cut body fat. Since during an absence of carbs your body will look elsewhere for energy i.e. proteins and body fat. But as previously mentioned you need carbs and a caloric surplus in order to build muscle and gain weight. no carbs=no gains. i think the intent behind the original question was to see if there was a way to get enough carbs so your body builds muscle, while at the same time attempting to keep your body burning its own fat as a primary source of energy, which i really dont see happening.
    Strong thread bump, and no.. you're wrong.

    Do you need carbohydrates? No, not necessarily.

    Do you need carbohydrates to build muscle? No, but it's going to be a HELL of alot harder and most likely take a LOT longer if you don't eat them.
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  18. #18
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    Why would you not want too eat carbs?
    Did you read some article in cosmopolitan about how carbs will "bloat you" and "give you excessive menstrual cramps"?
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by nowheym8 View Post
    Why would you not want too eat carbs?
    Did you read some article in cosmopolitan about how carbs will "bloat you" and "give you excessive menstrual cramps"?
    Some people just have different preferences.
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  20. #20
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    Its crazy how many people continue to give advice while know absolutely nothing but BROscience. Lostov78 is cleary one of the few here that have done any real research of the subject. I urge anyone who still believes that carbs are the main source of energy or that they should be in such high percentages in a daily diet to read Grain Brain and learn the facts. I'm sure you are still eating egg whites also :-\
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by PerniciousSaint View Post
    Its crazy how many people continue to give advice while know absolutely nothing but BROscience. Lostov78 is cleary one of the few here that have done any real research of the subject. I urge anyone who still believes that carbs are the main source of energy or that they should be in such high percentages in a daily diet to read Grain Brain and learn the facts. I'm sure you are still eating egg whites also :-\
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  22. #22
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    Ooh nice old thread about to get a revival!!

    No you do not "need" carbs. Humans have only been eating them for around the last 2000 years. Before that we only ate meat, fruit veggies and nuts etc! And the human race managed to survive and flourish!

    As for muscle building.....you can grow lean muscle without carbs but yes it will likely take a lot longer than if you do eat carbs. It's simply down to nutrient shuttling via the actions of insulin in response to blood sugar in relation to the type of carbs we consume! Easy!

    I have done no carb plans for extended periods of time, and trained hard for muscle growth. Without carbs I am significantly weaker and have less endurance. I also lose a lot of weight some of which is clearly muscle mass. However, you get very lean very quick. The only downside is your muscles look small because they are not full of glycogen. There basically a bit of a trade off between size/strength and body fat.

    I am now going to try going no carb for all meals but consume around 100g complex carbs 2 hours before training followed by around 50g simple carbs directly after. Hopefully this will give me enough energy for a strong workout and quickly replace muscle glycogen afterwards. Then by not eating carbs at all other times hopefully I will stay nice and lean. It's an experiment to see if it works "for me" as completely no carbs isn't great for me and eating lots of carbs throughout the day makes me a bit fat and bloated.

    We should all experiment to find what works for our bodies as there is no one size fits all answer. Watch this space!!

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    Originally Posted by SleepLifter View Post
    You cannot "turn" one marconutrient into another. Protien can be broken down and used for energy in the absence of carbs (see ketogenic), but you will not be in an anabolic state. Growth will not happen without carbs as glucose shuttles amino acids into the muscles.
    actually, you can, look up gluconeogenesis. To quote from Wikipedia 'generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, glucogenic amino acids, and fatty acids'.

    Also, carbohydrates are NOT needed post workout as much as believed. Your body will produce an insulin response from eating anything. It's optimal to intake some carbohydrates along with a protein source, but this number is often way, way, way inflated. Replenishing your glycogen stores is not really needed immediately unless you are partaking I multiple weight sessions/sports daily or have an active/physical job. Glycogen will be replenished between this point and your next workout via the carbs you intake over the remaining part of the day and the part of the following day before your following workout, whether low GI OR high GI.
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    Originally Posted by BannoSantoro View Post
    Ooh nice old thread about to get a revival!!

    No you do not "need" carbs. Humans have only been eating them for around the last 2000 years. Before that we only ate meat, fruit veggies and nuts etc! And the human race managed to survive and flourish!

    As for muscle building.....you can grow lean muscle without carbs but yes it will likely take a lot longer than if you do eat carbs. It's simply down to nutrient shuttling via the actions of insulin in response to blood sugar in relation to the type of carbs we consume! Easy!

    I have done no carb plans for extended periods of time, and trained hard for muscle growth. Without carbs I am significantly weaker and have less endurance. I also lose a lot of weight some of which is clearly muscle mass. However, you get very lean very quick. The only downside is your muscles look small because they are not full of glycogen. There basically a bit of a trade off between size/strength and body fat.

    I am now going to try going no carb for all meals but consume around 100g complex carbs 2 hours before training followed by around 50g simple carbs directly after. Hopefully this will give me enough energy for a strong workout and quickly replace muscle glycogen afterwards. Then by not eating carbs at all other times hopefully I will stay nice and lean. It's an experiment to see if it works "for me" as completely no carbs isn't great for me and eating lots of carbs throughout the day makes me a bit fat and bloated.

    We should all experiment to find what works for our bodies as there is no one size fits all answer. Watch this space!!

    Santoro
    Good post and a good plan! Maybe add a small amount of carbohydrates with each meal, maybe 25-40 grams. Also maybe experiment with eating your last carb meal (except for post workout) 3-4 hours before your training session and then consuming just a protein/fat meal 1-1.5 hours before. I find I feel a lot more focused/less lethargic in the gym this way. Plus nearly all the carbohydrates I have eaten are more likely to be fully digested and readily available. Try it your way might work better for you or this way could work better. This is my favourite thing about bbing tbh, no 'one size fits all routine'.
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