how much carbs do you really need

[grapemaster]

I was thinking of switching my diet up to a TKD type diet... not too extreme but definitely taking my carbs down some but not into keto...

Basically during the day I would eat an apple or banana for brain energy during the day and the rest would be all protein and maybe some nuts, then only the carbs like brown rice/ezekiel bread (no flour) around my workout. Whereas I have been eating a decent amount of carbs every meal lately and I think its just unnecessary. The only other carbs I would eat would be green veggies.

I have a job where I'm at the computer all day and don't really see the sense in eating the carbs all day, if you think I don't need them at ALL during the day let me know too but I don't want it to effect my energy levels and such or have brain fog.

I have done keto before but don't wanna go to that extreme... just find somewhere in the middle.

I am looking at this as a long term diet by the way to stay very lean but still make gains in the weight room.

I'm freaking tired of sitting around 12% bodyfat, I think the extra carbs are what is doing it and not necesarily the calories.

I know its gonna be slightly more expensive on my grocery bill ramping up the protein and fat but if it makes me lean and get muscle results still I can deal with it.

[jaim91]

For TKD the carbs are consumed only before and after workouts, not randomly throughout the day. And fruit it usually a no-no because fructose is more easily stored as fat vs. other sugars.

[grapemaster]

For TKD the carbs are consumed only before and after workouts, not randomly throughout the day. And fruit it usually a no-no because fructose is more easily stored as fat vs. other sugars.

I see, thanks for clarifying, I'm assuming even w/o any carbs during the day my body will adjust and the brain fog might only be a few days if any, correct? I can eat a few fruits around my workout if necessary.

The one time i did keto for awhile was seriously the most cut I've ever been, but I guess gains were slower, I am thinking now looking back that if I can do tkd most of the time even if I stray off it sometimes I will still end up being much leaner. I'm not looking to be huge or bulk up just going for the lean athletic build.

Also the more dietary stuff I read I think this is probably the optimum diet and somewhat of what humans evolved on, the really only time you need the carbs is if you are increasing activity but for the mostly sedentary lifestly on the job those carbs are going straight to your fat stores.

BTW I am a natural endo and when I did keto I seemed to have extremely successful weight loss and I wasn't hardly even working out much nor did I know the best food choices, too much sodium laden sausage etc.

[jaim91]

You have this thing about fruits, eh buddy? lol

Pre workout, go for oats or sweet potatoes, they are sustained energy. Post workout, simple sugars like dextrose, maltodextrin, rockets, sweet tarts, nerds, cotton candy, etc. anything that's PURE SUGAR.

P.S. No fruit

[grapemaster]

just for the phytonutrients and antioxidants.

[johnnyironboard]

I was thinking of switching my diet up to a TKD type diet... not too extreme but definitely taking my carbs down some but not into keto...

How many carbs are you eating now? Happy with the results?

[grapemaster]

How many carbs are you eating now? Happy with the results?

around 150-200 depending on if i worked out that day, 30/50/20

not happy with result this year, too much fat gain across the board maintaining, trying to cut or bulking. im a natural endo and put on both muscle and fat equally and easily no matter how clean my diet goes it seems. unless when i remember i cut carbs down and did keto then fat melted off.

i eat very clean and no processed stuff, my carbs are coming from no flour bread, oats, sweet potatos, brown rice but I think I don't even need them due to my sedentary job and non active lifestlye except when im at the gym.

after about a year of 40/40 and 30/50 carbs/protein I am just thinking to stay anywhere under 12% for me besides at the end of a cut I am just gonna have to cut out the carbs, I've read how differnet body types respond to diff stuff and not sure what all is true science and pseudoscience but I definitely think I am a non carb person and, esp considering my results on keto in 2004, I was leaner then than I ever was and my workout regimen and eating healthy is way better now, I didn't even know much then about really good choices I just cut out carbs and wasn't even working out much, eating too high sodium, even processed stuff, lots of lunch meat, sausages, fast food burgers w/o buns, eating quite a bit of calories (not even counting) and yet somehow I was leaner than I've been able to get in the 2 years since then, sad lol.

The more and more I see though of what is natural foods the more I see mostly all we should be eating naturally if we didn't have all the tech is meat, nuts, veggies.

After eating body building style for past 2 years just don't think its workin out as far as staying lean, muscle gains have been okay but nothing spectacular, , just whatu would expect, its just the fat how easy I put it on which I hate.

[johnnyironboard]

not happy with result this year, too much fat gain across the board maintaining, trying to cut or bulking. im a natural endo and put on both muscle and fat equally and easily no matter how clean my diet goes it seems. unless when i remember i cut carbs down and did keto then fat melted off.

Sounds like your body doesn't like carbs- CKD is probably the only thing that will work for you.

[jaim91]

I didn't even know much then about really good choices I just cut out carbs and wasn't even working out much, eating too high sodium, even processed stuff, lots of lunch meat, sausages, fast food burgers w/o buns, eating quite a bit of calories (not even counting) and yet somehow I was leaner than I've been able to get in the 2 years since then, sad lol.
.

So moral of the story: Your body would respond well to strict keto

[grapemaster]

yeh my plan now is to do strict keto to get down to low body fat levels then still keep it under 50-70 a day depending on activity levels to stay lean... methinks it is about the only way. I can easily stay around 12-15% bf normally but going past that is pretty much impossible w/o this carb reduction I'm afraid and more and more I think about it its like those carbs aren't needed anyway

[Haywood Jablome]

And fruit it usually a no-no because fructose is more easily stored as fat vs. other sugars.

it is?

[grapemaster]

it is?

not sure how big of a no no but fructose isn't that great, it goes to your liver glycogen and not your muscles, some fruits have a better ratio than others, I know grapes are higher in dextrose. if the liver is already full it automatically converts to fat tissue, another reason why HIGH fructose corn syrup is so avoided. it would be especially bad for keto as one of the main points is to keep your liver glycogen depleted.

[johnnyironboard]

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=300

I think this explains the comment.


^^Another problem with using the glycemic index is that fructose has a low glycemic index. 50 grams of pure fructose gives a blood sugar curve that is about 22-24% of that produced by glucose, which means that fructose has a glycemic index of only 22-24, low in anyone’s estimation. Why is fructose low? Because it doesn’t convert to blood sugar, it converts to fat in the liver instead. And causes a lot of problems. But has a low, low glycemic index. Foods made with fructose then have a low-glycemic index.^^

[rotlex]

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=300

I think this explains the comment.


^^Another problem with using the glycemic index is that fructose has a low glycemic index. 50 grams of pure fructose gives a blood sugar curve that is about 22-24% of that produced by glucose, which means that fructose has a glycemic index of only 22-24, low in anyone’s estimation. Why is fructose low? Because it doesn’t convert to blood sugar, it converts to fat in the liver instead. And causes a lot of problems. But has a low, low glycemic index. Foods made with fructose then have a low-glycemic index.^^

Thanks for that link....I never read that before, and although being familiar with the information, that read explained it perhaps better than anywhere I have read.

[grapemaster]

You have this thing about fruits, eh buddy? lol

Pre workout, go for oats or sweet potatoes, they are sustained energy. Post workout, simple sugars like dextrose, maltodextrin, rockets, sweet tarts, nerds, cotton candy, etc. anything that's PURE SUGAR.

P.S. No fruit

yeh i suppose i can look forward to a chocolate with malto/dex shake almost everyday, yummy, and one small carb meal before. Im guessing if I stay under 50g combined in my pre/post that I will still be in keto except for those 4-5 hours? or does it need to be even lower. I'm looking forward to eating steak and hamburger all the time again.. woop

[Eileen]

just for the phytonutrients and antioxidants.

Anything fruit does, vegetables will do it better. I notice that the fruit you eat (apples and banana) aren't even very high in micro-nutrients. If you must eat fruit, go for berries and currents. Blackberries and blueberries beat bananas any day.

[grapemaster]

Anything fruit does, vegetables will do it better. I notice that the fruit you eat (apples and banana) aren't even very high in micro-nutrients. If you must eat fruit, go for berries and currents. Blackberries and blueberries beat bananas any day.

Yeah I have a pack of frozen blueberries in my fridge I throw in shakes every now and then. Bananas and apples I was eating mainly for a lil energy but don't really need that anymore, plus its really a bother to buy bananas all the time.
For veggies i generally eat a salad or stir fry mix vegetables w/ broccoli, red greenand yellow pepper, onions, snap peas and mushrooms. It's something I find I can eat pretty often w/o gettin sick of. The vegetables I like a lotaren't that great for you (green beans) and carrots (lots of sugar) I'm a "super taster" so many of the best vegetables for me aren't very palatable.

[jaim91]

yeh i suppose i can look forward to a chocolate with malto/dex shake almost everyday, yummy, and one small carb meal before. Im guessing if I stay under 50g combined in my pre/post that I will still be in keto except for those 4-5 hours? or does it need to be even lower. I'm looking forward to eating steak and hamburger all the time again.. woop

Do you mean ACTUAL chocolate or chocolate flavoured protein?

If you're going to to tkd, make sure your workouts are super intense. And with tkd, ya, you can go up to 50 (i'm pretty sure)

[grapemaster]

Do you mean ACTUAL chocolate or chocolate flavoured protein?

If you're going to to tkd, make sure your workouts are super intense. And with tkd, ya, you can go up to 50 (i'm pretty sure)

lol its chocolate flavored WPI with stevia :P

[jaim91]

lol its chocolate flavored WPI with stevia :P

Aight, you're in the clear.

But the stevia isn't your simple carb, right?

[grapemaster]

Aight, you're in the clear.

But the stevia isn't your simple carb, right?

nah, I'll be using straight dextrose. It's just got stevia as to not have artificial sweeteners like most brands.

[jaim91]

nah, I'll be using straight dextrose. It's just got stevia as to not have artificial sweeteners like most brands.

My friend, I can't wait to hear about your progress. You seem ready to do this thing!

[grapemaster]

My friend, I can't wait to hear about your progress. You seem ready to do this thing!

haha yeh i am, i've done it before and had great results then just strayed and went back to normal eating the past few years, I have no doubt I'll do good on it already . Only thing killing me is work but so far been easy to avoid, first day I walk in... a bagel is waiting for me on my desk!!! like some kind of tempt to me. anyway I threw it in the trash, there was also about 10 kinds of holiday cookies sitting out near my desk, ACK. we are having holiday party after another lately too, but luckily atleast the one friday is going to have a tray of italian sausages and salad :P i'll skip the pasta. somebody also gave me a starbucks biscotti stick! i mean wtf... stop tempting me lol. i said thanks then took it back to my desk and put it in my drawer.

come to find out my boss also started low carb 4 days ago, should be interesting. we were both snacking on almonds throughout the day today.