Well, welcome to the wonder world of food police...

[Aarakis]

First the public bent over for the smoking nazis, now they're moving on to food...

http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?St...0-113225-7003r

It started with seatbelt and helmet laws for "our own good." Then anti-smoking laws thet got progressively more onerous and draconian. If you think they will stop with food, I think you're sadly mistaken. Its going to get progressively worse until the government has control of every aspect of our lives.

Sorry to seem so negative, but thats what I'm seeing.

Thank you so, so much you morons that thought anti-smoking laws were the ****.

[US_Ranger]

First the public bent over for the smoking nazis, now they're moving on to food...

http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?St...0-113225-7003r

It started with seatbelt and helmet laws for "our own good." Then anti-smoking laws thet got progressively more onerous and draconian. If you think they will stop with food, I think you're sadly mistaken. Its going to get progressively worse until the government has control of every aspect of our lives.

Sorry to seem so negative, but thats what I'm seeing.

Thank you so, so much you morons that thought anti-smoking laws were the ****.

**** off. I shouldn't have to smell cigarette smoke everywhere I go just because you want to have a bad habit. When your bad habit affects me negatively then you're SOL, that goes for food and smoking.

[The Experiment]

If smokers have the right to smoke, then I have a right to put my foot up the ass of the smokers who smoke by me.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Uh oh.

I'm sorry that the smell of cigarette smoke offends your sensitive nasal passages.

Maybe it's time we pass anti-farting laws too.

Same logic goes into gun laws.

You don't like the smell? Then stop humping my leg and take 5 steps in any direction, and you won't smell it anymore.


EDIT: Though I do appreciate when fat people or human popsicles cough at me. Let's start running and see who drops dead first.

[Problem Child]

Uh oh.

I'm sorry that the smell of cigarette smoke offends your sensitive nasal passages.

Maybe it's time we pass anti-farting laws too.

Same logic goes into gun laws.

You don't like the smell? Then stop humping my leg and take 5 steps in any direction, and you won't smell it anymore.


EDIT: Though I do appreciate when fat people or human popsicles cough at me. Let's start running and see who drops dead first.

Yeah but smoking is bad for your health, more so for children. Farting not so much. Big difference.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Yeah but smoking is bad for your health, more so for children. Farting not so much. Big difference.

It's bad for MY health, not yours.

The health risks of second hand smoke are minimal to nonexistent.

Plenty of things are dangerous to your health. Unprotected sex, alcohol consumption, even working out can cause an increase in ocular pressure that can, over time, result in deterioration of vision.

[DTRG]

yeah lets not talk about whats bad for our health because lets face it, living is bad for our health.

also, that link is a missing document for me, anyone else? cliff notes?

thirdly, i like the idea of 1. leaving it up to the business owner to decide if smoking is alowed or not and/or 2. having seperate smoking/non-smoking areas although its almost like a stigma to say "smoking please"

and i know, for a non smoker, smelling smoke is annoying, i hold my breath, but so is having to read your liberal bumper stickers.

[Aarakis]

If smokers have the right to smoke, then I have a right to put my foot up the ass of the smokers who smoke by me.

Agreed. And I have the right to punch you in the mouth if I dont like your cologne/perfume. Its all good.

[Aarakis]

Yeah but smoking is bad for your health, more so for children. Farting not so much. Big difference.

Not according to my children.

[Aarakis]

**** off. I shouldn't have to smell cigarette smoke everywhere I go just because you want to have a bad habit. When your bad habit affects me negatively then you're SOL, that goes for food and smoking.

I dont smoke.

Cologne and perfume often nauseate me though. I want it banned. My reasoning is just as legitimate as the smoking nazis.

[US_Ranger]

Uh oh.

I'm sorry that the smell of cigarette smoke offends your sensitive nasal passages.

Maybe it's time we pass anti-farting laws too.

Same logic goes into gun laws.

You don't like the smell? Then stop humping my leg and take 5 steps in any direction, and you won't smell it anymore.


EDIT: Though I do appreciate when fat people or human popsicles cough at me. Let's start running and see who drops dead first.

You're wrong here buddy.

You can't get up and walk 5 feet in any direction if you're in a restaurant trying to eat some food.

And I don't know about you but I run ****loads, play soccer, and do muay thai and BJJ. So when I worked at a nightclub last year and had to hang around smokers, my fitness suffered as I always was coughing up green **** the next day and my voice was always raspy.

I don't need studies to tell me anything when I have proof by my own body.

[Flat]

The link don't work.

[Melkor]

Cigarettes don't just affect the smoker. They affect the smoker, his children and family, his boss, and in many cases all of society. Who do you think pays the medical bills for that smoker that can't pay his/her own? That's right, society. A person who can't work because he's home with another cold? His boss and company. Kids grow up with asthma and other health issues because mom and dad are too lazy and irresponsible to go outside to smoke. Cigarette smoking is responsible for billions in lost GDP every year, and on top of that it costs us billions in health care costs, causing taxes to increase AND health insurance costs to increase. It clogs up the health care system. There are many reasons to ban smoking, and VERY few not to.

[Tumescent]

There are many reasons to ban smoking, and VERY few not to.

Yeah, just a pity bout this damn freedom of choice thing we have...
What were they thinking when they gave us the right to choose for ourselves?

[Melkor]

When did the Constitution say that we can do whatever we want? Can you show me that part?

[US_Ranger]

Yeah, just a pity bout this damn freedom of choice thing we have...
What were they thinking when they gave us the right to choose for ourselves?

Apparently you completely missed the part he wrote about that......

I'll clarify it for you.

It's not about YOU, it's about everyone else who has to pay for your fat, lung infected ass in the hospital when you can't control your own bad habits. And it's about the millions of others who have to breathe in your **** smoke and develop a smokers cough when they don't even smoke.

If you want to kill yourself as a person, please feel free, I won't stop you. But if you want to drag me along with you, I'm gonna put a boot in your ass.

[Tumescent]

Apparently you completely missed the part he wrote about that......

I'll clarify it for you.

It's not about YOU, it's about everyone else who has to pay for your fat, lung infected ass in the hospital when you can't control your own bad habits. And it's about the millions of others who have to breathe in your **** smoke and develop a smokers cough when they don't even smoke.

If you want to kill yourself as a person, please feel free, I won't stop you. But if you want to drag me along with you, I'm gonna put a boot in your ass.

Fair enough, but then dont bitch and complain when you come and sit next to me in the smoking section of a resturant. Don't complain when you come into my house or sit in my car and I light a cigarette, and i will have enough respect not to somke in either your house or car.

Thing about smoking is that most people do it as adults and _MOST_ people have respect for non smokers... there is no reason to get on a high horse and want it flat out banned.

Oh and just as clarification - I'm actually not a smoker... but I DO respect other peoples rights and choices

[US_Ranger]

Fair enough, but then dont bitch and complain when you come and sit next to me in the smoking section of a resturant. Don't complain when you come into my house or sit in my car and I light a cigarette, and i will have enough respect not to somke in either your house or car.

Thing about smoking is that most people do it as adults and _MOST_ people have respect for non smokers... there is no reason to get on a high horse and want it flat out banned.

Oh and just as clarification - I'm actually not a smoker... but I DO respect other peoples rights and choices

I don't think anyone is saying that you should be banned from smoking in your house or car.

As for restaurants, California is on the right track, for once, and has already taken care of that problem.

I honestly wouldn't even care if someone lit up a cigarette or two with me in the immediate vicinity in most places.

Go to western Europe and you'll see how out of hand it is in some places, you can't even catch a breath of fresh air. That's what I don't want and that's what these laws are preventing.

[Tumescent]

I don't think anyone is saying that you should be banned from smoking in your house or car

There are many reasons to ban smoking, and VERY few not to.

I totally agree with you though, problem is there are too many people wanting to control too much of our lives. I come from South Africa where you have to have a specially sealed off section in a resturant if you want a smoking section, with propper extraction and ventelation. I'm all for that, you have a choice.

Now in Ireland on the other hand you cant walk into a pub and light a cigarette, where is the choice? Not only that but drinking and smoking are almost synonamis, way too much clientelle is being lost through laws like this... people dont want to go to a place they cant light up and business suffers as a result.

there should just be a middle ground between the total banning and total chaos

[US_Ranger]

I totally agree with you though, problem is there are too many people wanting to control too much of our lives. I come from South Africa where you have to have a specially sealed off section in a resturant if you want a smoking section, with propper extraction and ventelation. I'm all for that, you have a choice.

Now in Ireland on the other hand you cant walk into a pub and light a cigarette, where is the choice? Not only that but drinking and smoking are almost synonamis, way too much clientelle is being lost through laws like this... people dont want to go to a place they cant light up and business suffers as a result.

there should just be a middle ground between the total banning and total chaos

I think their should be choices too but I really don't think business has been hurt by the smoking bans. This was the same fear they had in Italy and it turned out not to have an effect. France is also going through the same thing so we'll have to keep a look out for business models in 2007 Paris.

At the same time, who should have to pay for all the health care costs of people with lung cancer from smoking?

Please don't say the people who smoked should pay, because this is America and we know that poor people don't pay **** in the hospital...the disappearing middle class supports them.

side question : why are so many people leaving South Africa? I met a crapload in Zambia and they said South Africa is turning to ****.

[Tumescent]

You just have to open your eyes to see how it is influencing business. Take a restaurant with a 50/50 split smoking to non smoking sections. Guaranteed the smoking section is twice as full as the non smoking section. Even when I go out with my friends, if a place is non smoking we will walk straight past it because if there is one smoker in the group the whole group will attempt to accommodate him. If we are in a non smoking place instead of staying for a few more hours chatting (And drinking - Money for the establishment), smokers will inevitably get up and leave because the environment doesn’t suit them.

At the same time, who should have to pay for all the health care costs of people with lung cancer from smoking?

Please don't say the people who smoked should pay, because this is America and we know that poor people don't pay **** in the hospital...the disappearing middle class supports them.

Have you got any idea how heavily tobacco is taxed? Take the United Kingdom for example where you pay almost 5 pounds a packet, how much of that do you think actually goes into the manufacture of that packet of cigarettes. Alcohol and tobacco two of the most heavily taxed commodities on the market for the exact reason that in the long run they are a financial burden on society.




Honestly, I don’t know why people are leaving the country, most of them put it down to crime, poorly run government or other bull**** but it is just grass is greener syndrome... this must be one of the most beautiful places on earth and I really couldn't imagine living anywhere else
Funny enough three of my friends who moved overseas (2 to the UK and 1 to the states) have just moved back because they realize what they left behind.

[US_Ranger]

You just have to open your eyes to see how it is influencing business. Take a restaurant with a 50/50 split smoking to non smoking sections. Guaranteed the smoking section is twice as full as the non smoking section. Even when I go out with my friends, if a place is non smoking we will walk straight past it because if there is one smoker in the group the whole group will attempt to accommodate him. If we are in a non smoking place instead of staying for a few more hours chatting (And drinking - Money for the establishment), smokers will inevitably get up and leave because the environment doesn’t suit them.



Have you got any idea how heavily tobacco is taxed? Take the United Kingdom for example where you pay almost 5 pounds a packet, how much of that do you think actually goes into the manufacture of that packet of cigarettes. Alcohol and tobacco two of the most heavily taxed commodities on the market for the exact reason that in the long run they are a financial burden on society.




Honestly, I don’t know why people are leaving the country, most of them put it down to crime, poorly run government or other bull**** but it is just grass is greener syndrome... this must be one of the most beautiful places on earth and I really couldn't imagine living anywhere else
Funny enough three of my friends who moved overseas (2 to the UK and 1 to the states) have just moved back because they realize what they left behind.

Well, I haven't heard about California businesses suffering from the smoking ban. I think you're looking too much into it. In fact, I haven't heard about anywhere suffering from banning smoking indoors. Everyone claims it's going to kill business but I've only heard reports saying it hasn't...so if you know of a report that says it does, let me know and I'll read it.

Most people realize it's not a big deal to walk outside to light a cigarette.

Tobacco is taxed a lot in the US too but that tax money is gone before it hits the books because our country spends too much money. In California alone we're losing billions upon billions of dollars because of illegal immigration so I doubt any tobacco tax money is going to health care. That would probably explain why the 4 stitches I had cost me well over a hundred dollars.

[Tumescent]

OK, ill admit that I have no scientific basis to back up my claims of loss of revenue. Only what i notice in everyday life around me so I might be overanalyzing.

But I do still believe that taxation on cigarettes is a great injection of currency into any countries budget, sure most of this gets spent on roads or education but what if it wasn't there. Then we wouldn’t have money for healthcare or roads or education.

When it comes to the price of medical care I think it has more to do with pharmaceutical companies and medical professionals taking advantage of the fact medical insurance is so main stream and pushing up prices for the sake of profit (Saving lives is big business now days) then it has to do with smoking. But that is a rant I will save for another day

[US_Ranger]

OK, ill admit that I have no scientific basis to back up my claims of loss of revenue. Only what i notice in everyday life around me so I might be overanalyzing.

But I do still believe that taxation on cigarettes is a great injection of currency into any countries budget, sure most of this gets spent on roads or education but what if it wasn't there. Then we wouldn’t have money for healthcare or roads or education.

When it comes to the price of medical care I think it has more to do with pharmaceutical companies and medical professionals taking advantage of the fact medical insurance is so main stream and pushing up prices for the sake of profit (Saving lives is big business now days) then it has to do with smoking. But that is a rant I will save for another day

I agree with you completely.

And I'll call it quits on that thread on that note.

Thanks for the rational discussion, you don't get many of those anymore around here.

[Tumescent]

Thanks for the rational discussion, you don't get many of those anymore around here.

Agreed!

[Aarakis]

You're wrong here buddy.

You can't get up and walk 5 feet in any direction if you're in a restaurant trying to eat some food.

And I don't know about you but I run ****loads, play soccer, and do muay thai and BJJ. So when I worked at a nightclub last year and had to hang around smokers, my fitness suffered as I always was coughing up green **** the next day and my voice was always raspy.

I don't need studies to tell me anything when I have proof by my own body.

Who forced you to work there?

[Aarakis]

Link fixed...

http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?St...0-113225-7003r

[mr_oo3]

People just don't care about freedom anymore.

[lordofchaos]

I have yet to see a "report" of it, but I have had a few people I know who own bars tell me it hurt their buisness but not a steady drop. Just a quick cull off the top and then steadily staying down at this new lower buisness rate.

[1devil]

Uh oh.

I'm sorry that the smell of cigarette smoke offends your sensitive nasal passages.

Maybe it's time we pass anti-farting laws too.

Same logic goes into gun laws.

You don't like the smell? Then stop humping my leg and take 5 steps in any direction, and you won't smell it anymore.


EDIT: Though I do appreciate when fat people or human popsicles cough at me. Let's start running and see who drops dead first.

The the problem with smokers lighting up in public places is that not only do I have to inhale the smoke but I walk around reeking of it for hours. How about I run around pressing my ass against people and farting so that they get the joy of the initial smell of my gas plus the lingering after affects.