Pre-Game/In-Game Supplementation

[TUnit]

Just a quick question guys, I'm thinking of using some supps for before and during my basketball games:

- Omega Sports Power Jolt/Ergopharm AMP (Pre-Game, but which one would be better?)
- MAN Body Octane (1 Scoop) + SciVation Xtend (6 Scoops) + 5 g Creatine Monohydrate

Just wondering which one would be better for pre-game and if this overall plan looks good and if there's anything else I could add, i.e. extra scoop of BO or something else. Thanks.

[TUnit]

Bump for a reply

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by TUnit

Just a quick question guys, I'm thinking of using some supps for before and during my basketball games:

- Omega Sports Power Jolt/Ergopharm AMP (Pre-Game, but which one would be better?)
- MAN Body Octane (1 Scoop) + SciVation Xtend (6 Scoops) + 5 g Creatine Monohydrate

Just wondering which one would be better for pre-game and if this overall plan looks good and if there's anything else I could add, i.e. extra scoop of BO or something else. Thanks.

Pretty nice choices.. I like both AMP and PowerJOLT... maybe pick up one of each... also consider adding WRAATH... good luck.

[Nailbomb9]

I know this is the supplement section, but this is getting out of hand. How about CARBS!! Plenty of meals out there that can get your ready. Can't go wrong with PASTA if you're needing some energy and such for you sporting activities. FOOD FIRST AND FOREMOST if possible.

[uhockey]

I'd personally go with 2 caps of Scorch, 1 scoop of body octane pre-game, and something like Xtend in gatorade during the game.

[pdx503]

whatever happened to sprints in the offseason and good old fashioned hydration during games?

[young_squatter]

Originally Posted by TUnit

Just a quick question guys, I'm thinking of using some supps for before and during my basketball games:

- Omega Sports Power Jolt/Ergopharm AMP (Pre-Game, but which one would be better?)
- MAN Body Octane (1 Scoop) + SciVation Xtend (6 Scoops) + 5 g Creatine Monohydrate

Just wondering which one would be better for pre-game and if this overall plan looks good and if there's anything else I could add, i.e. extra scoop of BO or something else. Thanks.

I would do 1 scoop body octane and some type of carb like gatorade or dextrose mixed with xtend.

[UberBerzerker]

fast twitch by cytosport before and diluted gatorade/water during

1/2 serving purple wraath by Controlled Labs pre - other 1/2 mixed with diluted gatorade during

MAN Body Octane before and Cytomax from Cytosport during

lots of ways to go....get a good balanced meal before all of this though, and take a good pre workout dump Also, save the AMP and the similar items for when your training and doing long sessions of sprinting and cardio work.

my .02

[bachovas]

Originally Posted by pdx503

whatever happened to sprints in the offseason and good old fashioned hydration during games?

Whatever happened to technology and advances in science and Sports Nutrition?

[UberBerzerker]

Originally Posted by pdx503

whatever happened to sprints in the offseason and good old fashioned hydration during games?

they're still around....they don't visit as much anymore though

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by Nailbomb9

I know this is the supplement section, but this is getting out of hand. How about CARBS!! Plenty of meals out there that can get your ready. Can't go wrong with PASTA if you're needing some energy and such for you sporting activities. FOOD FIRST AND FOREMOST if possible.

I could and would respect this reply if you at least knew something about me, about how much I've been eating in the pre-season, how much I've been busting my ass in the weight room and on the track, gaining 30 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks, adding 150-200 lbs on squat and deadlift in 12 weeks, adding 100 lbs on bench in 12 weeks. Maybe check out my log before assuming I wouldn't know this. I eat 600-800 g of complex carbs daily and average 6000 calories (cutting back to 5000 calories a day in the season) and obviously I will be eating complex carbs before games. This question is about some supps that will help me get that extra "boost" that will put me over the top so I can raise my level of play to my highest capabilities.

That aside, I do agree with your response 100% but it just came across to me as if I didn't know anything about this kind of stuff, which I take pride in knowing a ton about.

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by pdx503

whatever happened to sprints in the offseason and good old fashioned hydration during games?

Wouldn't you agree that sprints in the off-season, good old fashioned hydration during games, AND some extra supps to put you over the top would produce OPTIMAL results? (Keep in mind I've been running sprints all off-season and drink at least 1.5-2 gallons of water daily.)

[youi09]

Originally Posted by TUnit

I could and would respect this reply if you at least knew something about me, about how much I've been eating in the pre-season, how much I've been busting my ass in the weight room and on the track, gaining 30 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks, adding 150-200 lbs on squat and deadlift in 12 weeks, adding 100 lbs on bench in 12 weeks. Maybe check out my log before assuming I wouldn't know this. I eat 600-800 g of complex carbs daily and average 6000 calories (cutting back to 5000 calories a day in the season) and obviously I will be eating complex carbs before games. This question is about some supps that will help me get that extra "boost" that will put me over the top so I can raise my level of play to my highest capabilities.

That aside, I do agree with your response 100% but it just came across to me as if I didn't know anything about this kind of stuff, which I take pride in knowing a ton about.

Well 30 lbs of lean tissue in 12 weeks is 100 percent guaranteed you did not put on. However maybe half of that and some glycogen, water and fat ...not lean tissue thats for sure without question lol. For pre game I would go with somehting like xtend(or just buy citr malate bulk powder and dose it high), amp, and throw in some Alcar.

[TUnit]

Thanks to everyone else for the replies, much appreciated.

Looks like I'll be doing:

- Complex Carb + Protein Meal (1 hr - 90 min pre)
- 1 Scoop Body Octane (15-20 min pre)
- MAYBE: Power Jolt/AMP/Scorch (30 min pre)
- 6 Scoops Xtend + Gatorade/Endurox R4 (during)

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by youi09

Well 30 lbs of lean tissue in 12 weeks is 100 percent guaranteed you did not put on. However maybe half of that and some glycogen, water and fat ...not lean tissue thats for sure without question lol. For pre game I would go with somehting like xtend(or just buy citr malate bulk powder and dose it high), amp, and throw in some Alcar.

Maybe..my bodyfat percentage went down though. Credit to X-Factor, Activate, 6-OXO, ALCAR, 12 Scoops Xtend daily, Dymatize Energized Xpand. And lots of basketball.

[cgnarles]

The in gane sounds great but I don't know about the pregame an amp maybe too much stims for you before a game.

[cawchy]

Caffeine + BCAA's pre-game and water during the game for me. I play hockey.

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by cgnarles

The in gane sounds great but I don't know about the pregame an amp maybe too much stims for you before a game.

Yea that's what I was thinking as well. On the one hand, AMP seems to work so well that at times people have reported seeing everything else going around in slow motion (I know I read this is PU's log). On the other, I should be pretty "amped" (pun intended) for a game anyway and taking stims might lead to overstimulation which would be terrible. Maybe taking it 1-2 hrs pre-game would be better just for more overall energy as it has been purported to last for a long time. Then again, Power Jolt might be better for that because of the Sulbutiamine and its longer lasting effects.

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by TUnit

Thanks to everyone else for the replies, much appreciated.

Looks like I'll be doing:

- Complex Carb + Protein Meal (1 hr - 90 min pre)
- 1 Scoop Body Octane (15-20 min pre)
- MAYBE: Power Jolt/AMP/Scorch (30 min pre)
- 6 Scoops Xtend + Gatorade/Endurox R4 (during)

Looks solid but I would replace the MAYBE with GAKIC. Combined with Octane and the BCAA's I can assure you that you will have little or no fatigue. GAKIC inhibits fatigue sensation which is a lot more than any stimulant will ever do for you. Caffeine is crap for actual athletic performance.

[TUnit]

Very interesting, I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the tip.

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by TUnit

Very interesting, I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the tip.

Here is why:

Originally Posted by deserusan

I feel creatine, a citrulline malate product, and GAKIC would assist in cardiovascular endurance, fatigue resistance, and explosiveness. These are all important aspects of a football combine. However, as I'm sure you already know, the effects of these will pale in comparison to practicing your ass off! If you decide to use GAKIC to help out with your combine test let us know your before and after results with regards to its supplementation. Here are some references for further reading and good luck

Citrulline Malate

Br J Sports Med. 2002 Aug;36(4):282-9.
Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human exercising muscle.
Bendahan D, Mattei JP, Ghattas B, Confort-Gouny S, Le Guern ME, Cozzone PJ.

Creatine

J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2005 Dec;45(4):507-11.
The effects of creatine supplementation on performance during the repeated bouts of supramaximal exercise.
Okudan N, Gokbel H.

GAKIC

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Dec;32(12):2102-8.
High-intensity dynamic human muscle performance enhanced by a metabolic intervention.
Stevens BR, Godfrey MD, Kaminski TW, Braith RW.

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Apr;36(4):583-7.
Glycine-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid improves performance of repeated cycling sprints.
Buford BN, Koch AJ.

Originally Posted by deserusan

Analysis
About half way through my workout I noticed my legs were not feeling as fatigued as they usually are. I was breathing heavy and sweating perfusely, but legs still had a lot of juice in them. I have attempted supersetting lunges with leg extension and never was able to really complete long sets with any success. I always seemed to reach failure a lot quicker. I would have to contend this was not placebo and do to the fact I injested GAKIC before my workout.

Strength is defined as:

The power to resist strain or stress; durability.

I feel there is strong merit in the MuscleTech claim that there is an immediate increase in strength. As you can see strength isn't necessarily what you can max out. If you are able to push one more rep that could be considered a strength gain. One study indicated there was an increase in strength by 10.5% and an improved resistance to fatigue by an average value of 21% (which is not mention in any MT ads). This claim is not bull**** in my honest opinion.

"The results of the present study indicate that GAKIC injestion significantly attenuates the drop in mean power output associated with repeated sprints of anaerobic cycling. These findings support the work of Steven et al (19), who found that GAKIC significantly improved total work performed on three sets of isokinetic knee extensions by an average value of 10.5% and improved resistance to fatigue by an average value of 21%.

Previous GAKIC results (19) were based on multiple sets of isokinetic knee extensions for durations of approximately 70 s each. In a preliminary experiment, we found that GAKIC injestion did not affect performance variables (peak or mean power output, not fatigue index) after a single 30 s Wingate test, suggesting that the duration and intensity of the exercise stimuli employed may be important. Therefore, for the present study we hypothesized that a GAKIC-induced ergogenic effect would be evident during the course of a repeated series of anaerobic cycle exercise bouts totaling 50 s in duration. The results of the present study support our hypothesis, in that GAKIC injestion resulted in a significantly improved retention of mean power output between the first and second sprint of a series of five cycle bouts comprised of 10 s work and 50 s rest.

...........From the dietary data, it is clear that the main difference between conditions is the KIC (alpha ketoisocaproic acid) injested during the GAKIC treatment."

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Apr;36(4):583-7.
Glycine-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid improves performance of repeated cycling sprints.
Buford BN, Koch AJ.

Originally Posted by deserusan

Analysis

As for my endurance levels are concerned I am definately noticing less fatigue towards the end of my workouts. While performing HIT at the end of this workout, I was winded but my muscles could keep going as long as I wanted them to. Usually my muscles tend to fail before I lose my breath.

I feel stacking GAKIC with a citrulline malate product would enhance athletic performance greatly. GAKIC is proving to make anaerobic exercise a lot easier as it delays the sensation of fatigue by some unknown mechanism.

"The precise mechanism by which GAKIC improves exercise performance is currently unknown. GAKIC treatment is theorized to enhance anaerobic exercise through any one of several mechanisms including alterations in acidosis, ammonia and transanimation waste products, or via alterations in the enzymatic pathways concerning nitrogen and branch chain ketoacid metabolism."

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Apr;36(4):583-7.
Glycine-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid improves performance of repeated cycling sprints.
Buford BN, Koch AJ.

Combing this supplement with citrulline malate would create a strong syngergistic effect for the performance athlete. Citrulline malate has been shown to increase cellular aerobic capacity. Combining the two, in my opinion, would be the ultimate HIT cocktail.

"Citrulline is involved in the urea cycle and allows detoxification of ammonia. In comparison with placebo, it has been shown that treatment with CM led to a significant increase in levels of bicarbonate, ornithine, arginine, and citrulline.5 Previous investigations of the metabolic effects of CM on whole body measurements have shown an increased rate of ammonia clearance with no effect on the extent of accumulation during bicycle exercise.3 This faster clearance has been interpreted as a direct effect of citrulline. In our case, it is unlikely that citrulline affects aerobic ATP production. It is more likely that malate, a TCA intermediate, affects aerobic ATP production through anaplerotic reactions. Malate is dehydrogenated in the TCA cycle to oxaloacetate, the concentration of which is one of the most critical controls of the rate of aerobic ATP production. Also, it is transported through the inner mitochondrial membrane by a dicarboxylate transport system. Five of the eight TCA intermediates, including malate, are known to take part in ancillary reactions that can alter the concentrations of TCA intermediates, thereby affecting fluxes into and out the TCA cycle.31

Studies on heart muscle have shown that the anaplerotic flux of carbon into the TCA cycle is a normal part of cellular metabolism. Although less information is available for skeletal muscle, it is likely that anaplerosis plays a similar role in this tissue and functions to replenish the pool of TCA intermediates after their removal from the cycle.31 Previous studies in humans and animals have shown that the total pool in skeletal muscle increases severalfold very quickly at the onset of contraction.32 Of the TCA intermediates, malate shows the largest relative and absolute change during exercise, typically accounting for 350% of the net increase in total pool size.33,34 It has been suggested that this increase in TCA intermediates is required to attain high rates of ATP production through the TCA cycle.33,35 This increase in TCA intermediates would augment the overall rate of TCA cycle flux by substrate activation of other near equilibrium reactions such as the dehydrogenation of malate to oxaloacetate catalysed by malate dehydrogenase. Interestingly, the anaplerotic flux of carbon into the TCA cycle clearly exceeds the removal of TCA intermediates at the onset of exercise, whereas the process is reversed when exercise is prolonged.31 In keeping with the stimulating effect of TCA intermediates on the overall TCA flux, several authors have suggested that, in the absence of TCA intermediate increase, the flux through the TCA cycle would decrease, thereby accounting for, at least in part, the development of local muscle fatigue.33,35 The expansion of the TCA intermediate pool can therefore be regarded as a means of attaining higher rates of aerobic energy production, in agreement with our results showing that malate supplementation promotes a greater contribution of aerobic ATP production to total energy production. These results suggest that this hyperactivation of aerobic ATP production coupled to a reduction in anaerobic energy supply may contribute to the reduction in fatigue sensation reported by the subjects."

Br J Sports Med. 2002 Aug;36(4):282-9.
Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human exercising muscle.
Bendahan D, Mattei JP, Ghattas B, Confort-Gouny S, Le Guern ME, Cozzone PJ.

And some info on Beta-alanine from my Octane Review.

Originally Posted by deserusan

[size=3][font=Georgia]Another ingredient which has been receiving a lot of well deserved press as of late is beta-alanine. This fun molecule, when supplemented has the ability to raise intramuscular carnosine levels (6, 7).

The performance benefits of elevated carnosine levels are not few and far between. When exercising the intramuscular hydrogen ion concentration (H+) increases (8) thus inhibiting performance (9). When intramuscular carnosine levels are elevated it acts as a buffer against the H+ increase during exercise thus increasing performance (10,11). Furthermore, stacking beta-alanine with creatine has shown to be well tolerated and provides a strong synergistic effect increasing multiple quantifiable performance enhancing tests results (12).

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by deserusan

Looks solid but I would replace the MAYBE with GAKIC. Combined with Octane and the BCAA's I can assure you that you will have little or no fatigue. GAKIC inhibits fatigue sensation which is a lot more than any stimulant will ever do for you. Caffeine is crap for actual athletic performance.

EDIT: This was posted before I saw those studies. So basically we're looking at 6.5 g Citrulline Malate (from BO and Xtend), 1.6 g Beta-Alanine (maybe I'll add an additional 4 g in bulk, as I've been using BA for about a month now.) And I think those studies have me sold on GAKIC.

ORIGINAL POST:

Just to stir some debate..wouldn't something that stimulates the nervous system and improves cognitive function be beneficial? (talking Power Jolt or AMP, which IMO and as per other reviews are much more powerful than caffeine, I'm sure you would agree.) Obviously you know much more about the scientific aspect of this as I've read through your logs, but just wondering. I highly regard your opinion so if you think taking pre-game stims isn't that great then I won't do it. But just to add, with or without supps, I am in excellent basketball shape. Would this change any of your thoughts on the GAKIC vs stims, or no? Thanks for the help.

[MynameisMike]

I had problems with cramping during sports while on creatine, so if you plan on it make sure you stay very hydrated. I never took creatine in-season again, it just makes me too nervous now. However, I think a product like MAN BodyOctane would be great and also I'm gonna have to support AMP.

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by MynameisMike

I had problems with cramping during sports while on creatine, so if you plan on it make sure you stay very hydrated. I never took creatine in-season again, it just makes me too nervous now. However, I think a product like MAN BodyOctane would be great and also I'm gonna have to support AMP.

Yea I seem to be fine so far on creatine during intense practices. However, during my tryouts I did make the mistake of taking a supplement containing Arginine (Energized Xpand) in it which really cramped me up bad. Body Octane is an excellent product IMO, from the high dosed CM to the Beta-Alanine to the Glucoronolactone to the Orotic Acid.

[Nailbomb9]

Originally Posted by TUnit

I could and would respect this reply if you at least knew something about me, about how much I've been eating in the pre-season, how much I've been busting my ass in the weight room and on the track, gaining 30 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks, adding 150-200 lbs on squat and deadlift in 12 weeks, adding 100 lbs on bench in 12 weeks. Maybe check out my log before assuming I wouldn't know this. I eat 600-800 g of complex carbs daily and average 6000 calories (cutting back to 5000 calories a day in the season) and obviously I will be eating complex carbs before games. This question is about some supps that will help me get that extra "boost" that will put me over the top so I can raise my level of play to my highest capabilities.

That aside, I do agree with your response 100% but it just came across to me as if I didn't know anything about this kind of stuff, which I take pride in knowing a ton about.

You come on here and bitch when someone tells you something you don't like?? Sorry dude, but if you need a supplement to raise your play to the highest capabilities you might need to find a different sport. What you need is ATTITUDE and DISCIPLINE. BTW...what makes you think I care if you respect me or not...???

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by Nailbomb9

You come on here and bitch when someone tells you something you don't like?? Sorry dude, but if you need a supplement to raise your play to the highest capabilities you might need to find a different sport. What you need is ATTITUDE and DISCIPLINE. BTW...what makes you think I care if you respect me or not...???

I told you earlier I agree with your statement 100% I just thought it came off as me not knowing anything about eating properly. Not bitchin, just giving background info. And I never said I don't respect YOU, I just said I would be able to respect YOUR POST/OPINION if you knew more about me and such. But I'm sure anyone would agree with me that even if you're performing at your best, there's always something you can do for that extra edge. For example, take two players of equal skill level. One takes some Body Octane and Xtend and the other one doesn't. No matter what, if all else is equal, the player on the Octane and Xtend would play better and be able to go faster and longer. Being a future D1 basketball player this is something I'm always taking into consideration.

[Nailbomb9]

Originally Posted by TUnit

I told you earlier I agree with your statement 100% I just thought it came off as me not knowing anything about eating properly. Not bitchin, just giving background info. And I never said I don't respect YOU, I just said I would be able to respect YOUR POST/OPINION if you knew more about me and such. But I'm sure anyone would agree with me that even if you're performing at your best, there's always something you can do for that extra edge. For example, take two players of equal skill level. One takes some Body Octane and Xtend and the other one doesn't. No matter what, if all else is equal, the player on the Octane and Xtend would play better and be able to go faster and longer. Being a future D1 basketball player this is something I'm always taking into consideration.

Maybe you're right. I just think sure will and determination would overcome. Guess there's only one way to find out though.

[TUnit]

Originally Posted by Nailbomb9

I just think sure will and determination would overcome.

Will and Determination - already have that. But you're absolutely right, only way to find out is when the season begins.

[ncangey0513]

1 scoop r4w pre game and you'd be like a combination lawrence taylor and ronnie lott.

[TUnit]

Yea, reading your log on it has me kind of interested. If I choose to go with a pre-workout stim that will definitely be on my list of considerations.