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  1. #1
    Registered User Dan101's Avatar
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    MMA fans hijacking threads and disrespecting other Martial Arts

    Hey Guys,

    Ok I have a little issue I would like to raise and I wish to cause no conflict or bad feeling in raising it.

    Over the past day or two I have used the search function in this section to read up on various Martial Arts (Kung Fu, Aikido, Krav Maga, TKD, JKD) just out of interest. In every single thread I read, there was 1 thing I noticed, they were all hijacked by people saying things along the lines of "MMA would own Kung Fu" "MMA guys dont train in TKD cause its ****" "You want to be doing Brazilian JuJitsu, not that ***got Aikido, Gracie would own Steven Seagal" etc etc. You all know what I'm talking about as you have either read this stuff or posted these comments yourself.

    We get it. We all know what happend in the early UFC's, when a Karate Master would compete etc. We know that grappling and submissions has proven to be the superior fighting style in this form of competition. However I dont see why these other more Traditional Martial Arts need to be disrespected so much.

    Sure Ortitz would wipe the floor with an Aikido Master in the Octagon. However, who would win in a strict Aikido competition? The UFC have the skills and power to bring someone down, pound on them, slap a submission on etc, that style has been proven to be the "Ultimate Fighting" style, thats fair enough, but that in no way means they can beat experts of the traditional Martial Arts at their own style.

    I have trained for a few years now in Freestyle, Greco Roman and submission wrestling. I have won a medal or two in club competition, nothing impressive but do my best and feel I have built my skills up to a respectable level. However when I go to my Wing Chun club my Si Fu could destroy me a dozen times before I even knew what happened. I'm sure given an opportunity I may be able to shoot for a leg and ground him and put him in a submission, but I'm not there for that, I am there to learn his art and in every demonstartion with him I am in awe of how easilly he found a way to strike me, knock me off balance, basically show me up.

    I therefore have complete respect for him and his art. I therefore realise that if I went to a good Aikido club it would be the same story. If I went to to a good TKD club it would again be the same story. You get the picture. These people have dedicated their lives to their art, they are experts in their art, so what their art has floors and is not ideal for the UFC, they are concerned with their art and can beat you at their art.

    I really dont see why just because MMA is the Ultimate fighting style that so much disrespect is show to the Traditional Arts. Especially by what I beleive many of you to be just fans of MMA. go take your swing at a Shaolin Monk, go shoot for their leg.....I wish you the best of luck with that :-)

    I will continue with my Amatuer and submission wrestling, because I enjoy it and I know how effective it is for real life situations. I will also continue with Wing Chun Kung Fu and will soon start Praying Mantis Kung Fu. Why? because they interest me. Just because I know the styles wont stand up in the UFC doesn't stop them facinating me.

    I hope I have not caused offence with this post. I hope I have not come across as anti MMA. I just felt that I wanted to raise an issue regarding the disrespect shown to various Martial Arts. If a guy simply says that he is interested in taking up Karate for self defence he does not deserve "Oh here we go, another moron who thinks they are going to be a deadly weapon because they know Karate. Send Bruce Lee to any MMA club and watch him get his ass handed to him by the most junior student. You dick!" blah blah blah. Just leave people be, they probably have 0 interest in competing in MMA or becoming a "deadly weapon", they may just have an interest in a certain Martial Art and want to take it up. Nothing wrong with that.

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  2. #2
    Registered User SliCed_and_DiCed's Avatar
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    Yes there is.

    Traditional Marital Arts just make TKD and KARATE ppl feel better about themselves. Also it gives women the impression that they can defend themselves against a male attacker....


    I dont even know why I am upset though. It just means those of us who train MMA are that much better than those that dont.
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    Originally Posted by Dan101 View Post

    I really dont see why just because MMA is the Ultimate fighting style that so much disrespect is show to the Traditional Arts. Especially by what I beleive many of you to be just fans of MMA. go take your swing at a Shaolin Monk, go shoot for their leg.....I wish you the best of luck with that :-)

    the fact is, people believe that shaolin monks or whatever are the best fighters because the practice some old style or live in the mountains and seem "mysterious" and people see them as being real good in movies and therefore think that these styles are the best. i guarantee a shaolin monk would lose in an mma competition, but then you would say " OH BUT WHAT DOES THAT MATTER GO FIGHT IN KUNG FU COMPETITION" and my response would be, no, because MMA competitions are the closest thing there are to streetfights. it doesnt take much to incorporate eye gouges or whatever **** the TMA zealots think they would do in a street fight, and ive never even heard of eye gouges happening in street fights.


    TMA people have not proved themselves within competition out of their own style, and have not proved their styles to be of any worth vs styles that are used in MMA, which as i said before, is the closest thing to a legal street fight that you can compete in.
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    Have you ever read a thread

    about someone getting their ass kicked by a monk?

    The arts that are most effective practice lots of full contact and are constantly changing. Throw out what doesn't work and add something you learned today.

    Ask how many Pride, UFC, K-1 guys win because they can do a flawless kata.
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  5. #5
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    Above posters just proved the threadstarters' point, lol.

    Also.

    Of course, UFC fighters would win in a "UFC competition", that is what they train for(in terms of abilities, skills and rules/guidelines). LMAO.

    In a boxing ring, who would win? A boxer or a kickfighter? Of course the boxer, because that is what he trains for. A kickfighter would be severly limited as using anything else other than your fists are illegal.

    If the rules were to be bent, who knows who might win. I might compete in a UFC match and bring a gun, who would win then? (Obviously over-exaggeration, however people do bring guns to streetfights, and this is my response to that)

    I'm not familiar with UFC rules, but I doubt that dislocation, use of weapons, and/or seriously impairing muscle/skeletal systems would be allowed as it would have serious long term consequences to both fighters.
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    thc+omega3+EC=delta9 delta9's Avatar
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    MMA came out of traditional martial arts. morons who insult other MA's need to get punched in the jaw because they're bassicly disrespecting the roots of MMA.

    it does go both ways though my friend. i'm sure you have heard practitioners of traditional martial arts saying MMA is not a true martial arts and other bs.
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    Originally Posted by delta9 View Post
    MMA came out of traditional martial arts. morons who insult other MA's need to get punched in the jaw because they're bassicly disrespecting the roots of MMA.

    it does go both ways though my friend. i'm sure you have heard practitioners of traditional martial arts saying MMA is not a true martial arts and other bs.
    I hope you are referring to the thread starter.
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    Registered User Chett's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingdomCome View Post
    Above posters just proved the threadstarters' point, lol.

    Also.

    Of course, UFC fighters would win in a "UFC competition", that is what they train for(in terms of abilities, skills and rules/guidelines). LMAO.

    In a boxing ring, who would win? A boxer or a kickfighter? Of course the boxer, because that is what he trains for. A kickfighter would be severly limited as using anything else other than your fists are illegal.

    If the rules were to be bent, who knows who might win. I might compete in a UFC match and bring a gun, who would win then? (Obviously over-exaggeration, however people do bring guns to streetfights, and this is my response to that)

    I'm not familiar with UFC rules, but I doubt that dislocation, use of weapons, and/or seriously impairing muscle/skeletal systems would be allowed as it would have serious long term consequences to both fighters.
    dislocation? ever heard of "jiu-jitsu"?

    MMAs rules only rule out things like eye gouging, or kicks the balls or whatever which once again ARE NOT HARD TO IMPLEMENT IF ALLOWED.

    are you seriously trying to tell me that there is a style called "UFC" ? a boxer does just that, BOXES, MMA fighters BOX, they KICK, and they GRAPPLE. it is an integration of all forms of martial arts and anyone can use whatever bull-shido style that they want if they feel that it is the ultimate dangerous style that defeats all others, that is what happened in the early ufcs and the styles that won were the practical styles not the **** like dim-mak or whatever kung-fu you can name.

    it is called MIXED MARTIAL ARTS because it is a mix of all arts.
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    Originally Posted by Chett View Post
    dislocation? ever heard of "jiu-jitsu"?

    MMAs rules only rule out things like eye gouging, or kicks the balls or whatever which once again ARE NOT HARD TO IMPLEMENT IF ALLOWED.

    are you seriously trying to tell me that there is a style called "UFC" ? a boxer does just that, BOXES, MMA fighters BOX, they KICK, and they GRAPPLE. it is an integration of all forms of martial arts and anyone can use whatever bull-shido style that they want if they feel that it is the ultimate dangerous style that defeats all others, that is what happened in the early ufcs and the styles that won were the practical styles not the **** like dim-mak or whatever kung-fu you can name.

    it is called MIXED MARTIAL ARTS because it is a mix of all arts.
    Wow, you managed to prove successfully against one of my claims, congratulations.

    .....so what exactly is your point again?

    Your logic is erratic and full of emotions, how can anyone ever distinguish what you are trying to prove?
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    Registered User Chett's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingdomCome View Post
    Wow, you managed to prove successfully against one of my claims, congratulations.

    .....so what exactly is your point again?

    Your logic is erratic and full of emotions, how can anyone ever distinguish what you are trying to prove?
    well first of all, what is your point?

    my logic is erratic and full of emotions? what the hell are you talking about, i put it clearly there what i was saying. MMA is the closest thing to a real fight that you will find, kung-fu guys dont even compete full contact as far as i know.

    you are trying to say that these TMA people have special moves that they can use that will "seriously impair muscle and skeletal systems" so please tell me what these super secret moves are so i can call all the martial arts schools in my state and tell them to make sure they know how to defend against these deadly moves.
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    Originally Posted by KingdomCome View Post
    I hope you are referring to the thread starter.
    no i'm not
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    Originally Posted by Chett View Post
    well first of all, what is your point?

    my logic is erratic and full of emotions? what the hell are you talking about, i put it clearly there what i was saying. MMA is the closest thing to a real fight that you will find, kung-fu guys dont even compete full contact as far as i know.

    you are trying to say that these TMA people have special moves that they can use that will "seriously impair muscle and skeletal systems" so please tell me what these super secret moves are so i can call all the martial arts schools in my state and tell them to make sure they know how to defend against these deadly moves.
    You are an idiot.

    Are you not aware of how frail the human body is?

    A knife cut/stab or a traumatic blow to the jugular/temple/wind pipe/solar plexus/spine/major muscle groups/inner organs can all result in the impairment of the muscular/skeletal/nervous(etc.) systems.

    It doesn't frakking take a "super special move" to pull it off. When did I even mention a "super special kung frakking foo" move? You ass, you speculated that, and on top of that it was an uneducated speculation, good bloody going.

    Now please do be quiet, and educate yourself before posting.

    Unless you can talk calmly and educate yourself, I don't understand how this conversation will progress any further.
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    Originally Posted by delta9 View Post
    no i'm not
    Awesome job on being specific. *thumbs up*
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by KingdomCome View Post
    Awesome job on being specific. *thumbs up*
    hahaha common now it was a joke, when a guy says "i hope you are talking about somebody else" it's always amusing to call them out. that was all
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    I think the real reason why MMA enthusiasts bash traditional martial arts is because MMA is the closest thing to "real fighting."

    Of course an Aikido master would school any MMA fighter in an Aikido competition.

    But many people hold in higher regard the ability to fight under ANY circumstances, and in most cases, MMA is the dominant style in a no-holds-barred situation.

    I'm just trying to offer an explanation for you. I also find traditional martial arts to be cool and fascinating. But at the same time, I understand that they have been surpassed in terms of overall effectiveness.
    In 1945, Adolf Hilter died and went to Hell. Satan asked, "why are you in Hell?" He replied, "I am responsible for the massacre of millions" Satan said, "well done, sit to the right of my throne." In 1953, Joseph Stalin died and went to Hell. Satan asked, "why are you in Hell?" He replied "I killed millions to stay in power" Satan said "good, sit to my left" 2010, Ronnie James Dio died and went to Hell, Satan asked, "why are you in Hell?" Dio replied, "Bitch, get the fuk off my throne!"
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    Bleeding texan #25 imweasel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dan101 View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Ok I have a little issue I would like to raise and I wish to cause no conflict or bad feeling in raising it.

    Over the past day or two I have used the search function in this section to read up on various Martial Arts (Kung Fu, Aikido, Krav Maga, TKD, JKD) just out of interest. In every single thread I read, there was 1 thing I noticed, they were all hijacked by people saying things along the lines of "MMA would own Kung Fu" "MMA guys dont train in TKD cause its ****" "You want to be doing Brazilian JuJitsu, not that ***got Aikido, Gracie would own Steven Seagal" etc etc. You all know what I'm talking about as you have either read this stuff or posted these comments yourself.

    We get it. We all know what happend in the early UFC's, when a Karate Master would compete etc. We know that grappling and submissions has proven to be the superior fighting style in this form of competition. However I dont see why these other more Traditional Martial Arts need to be disrespected so much.

    Sure Ortitz would wipe the floor with an Aikido Master in the Octagon. However, who would win in a strict Aikido competition? The UFC have the skills and power to bring someone down, pound on them, slap a submission on etc, that style has been proven to be the "Ultimate Fighting" style, thats fair enough, but that in no way means they can beat experts of the traditional Martial Arts at their own style.

    I have trained for a few years now in Freestyle, Greco Roman and submission wrestling. I have won a medal or two in club competition, nothing impressive but do my best and feel I have built my skills up to a respectable level. However when I go to my Wing Chun club my Si Fu could destroy me a dozen times before I even knew what happened. I'm sure given an opportunity I may be able to shoot for a leg and ground him and put him in a submission, but I'm not there for that, I am there to learn his art and in every demonstartion with him I am in awe of how easilly he found a way to strike me, knock me off balance, basically show me up.

    I therefore have complete respect for him and his art. I therefore realise that if I went to a good Aikido club it would be the same story. If I went to to a good TKD club it would again be the same story. You get the picture. These people have dedicated their lives to their art, they are experts in their art, so what their art has floors and is not ideal for the UFC, they are concerned with their art and can beat you at their art.

    I really dont see why just because MMA is the Ultimate fighting style that so much disrespect is show to the Traditional Arts. Especially by what I beleive many of you to be just fans of MMA. go take your swing at a Shaolin Monk, go shoot for their leg.....I wish you the best of luck with that :-)

    I will continue with my Amatuer and submission wrestling, because I enjoy it and I know how effective it is for real life situations. I will also continue with Wing Chun Kung Fu and will soon start Praying Mantis Kung Fu. Why? because they interest me. Just because I know the styles wont stand up in the UFC doesn't stop them facinating me.

    I hope I have not caused offence with this post. I hope I have not come across as anti MMA. I just felt that I wanted to raise an issue regarding the disrespect shown to various Martial Arts. If a guy simply says that he is interested in taking up Karate for self defence he does not deserve "Oh here we go, another moron who thinks they are going to be a deadly weapon because they know Karate. Send Bruce Lee to any MMA club and watch him get his ass handed to him by the most junior student. You dick!" blah blah blah. Just leave people be, they probably have 0 interest in competing in MMA or becoming a "deadly weapon", they may just have an interest in a certain Martial Art and want to take it up. Nothing wrong with that.

    Dan101
    Dude if you want to take an art just because your interested in it, by all means do it. But if you come onto the MMA forums and ask which art you should take, it is assumed that you want to fight in MMA(hence the forum name).

    It's not disrespect to say that Aikido isn't effective against a dude that boxes or something like that, sure that's not how most say it, but people got opinions and if you ask which art to take on an MMA forum, it is assumed you want to compete in Mixed Martial Arts competition, not do the art because you think it's cool.
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    i dunno why everyone is arguing
    Know stuff about bb'ing? startergym.com is for sale, use it to build the site you wanted
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    Bleeding texan #25 imweasel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HazeDrake View Post
    i dunno why everyone is arguing
    Oh yea, well I do.

    (just going with the flow)
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    HIYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAA


    That was my flying ninja dragon super duper twisty kick.

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    I throw spinning sh*t HardGainer82's Avatar
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    While I do think that it's getting annoying that half the threads are devolving into the same lame argument, it's kinda understood that if you come into the MMA forum there will be a certain level of MMA bias.
    "The sun is always gonna rise, and always gonna set and I'll just keep on punching because everyday is gonna bring something different and I just want to be ready for it."
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    Registered User Dan101's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input from you mature guys. To the people that have tried to turn this thread into the reason I created it, I'm begging you, go down to a Wing Chun club and start shoving the Si Fu around.

    Also I think that people need to realise that just taking lessons for MMA does not make you an MMA fighter that could kick the ass of a traditional Martial Art Master. Just because you've taken a few MMA lessons does not make you Tito Ortitz or Chuck Liddell. As the same with any fighting style it takes time to hone your skills and become a skilled fighter.

    So to all you UFC fans, dont get too big for your boots, more often than not a Black Belt is gonna be kicking your ass for a while yet.

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  23. #23
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    No one is saying that a few months of MMA training makes you able to beat any black belt in a traditional martial art. However, given equal amounts of training the MMA fighter is more than likely going to ****kick him.

    And that is what you seem to be missing. This is an MMA forum. If you want to discuss taking Wing Chun or whatever else, go to a forum for that. Coming into this forum it is being assumed that you are wanting to train for MMA, as several others have pointed out. Thus, traditional martial arts will be dismissed for ones that are proven to be more effective.
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  24. #24
    Registered User Chett's Avatar
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    here is a video of "Yanagiryuken" who is a supposed master of "chi", the old man says that he was never defeated in over 200 fights in vale tudo, and here is a video of him with his students "showing off his skills"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc


    the old man is this video is the same old man who said he was a "chi" master, now see how his supposed skills work in a real fight:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQeUkUO5ZPo


    and otis redding, if you happen to read this post then please refrain from reminding everyone that i post video evidence of my claims of certain styles being bull****, since i dont think we need that fact spammed around here any more then you already do it.
    Last edited by Chett; 11-27-2006 at 12:22 PM.
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    I throw spinning sh*t HardGainer82's Avatar
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    I'm not one to disrespect traditional styles at all...but that ^^ was funny.
    "The sun is always gonna rise, and always gonna set and I'll just keep on punching because everyday is gonna bring something different and I just want to be ready for it."
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by Chett View Post
    here is a video of "Yanagiryuken" who is a supposed master of "chi", the old man says that he was never defeated in over 200 fights in vale tudo, and here is a video of him with his students "showing off his skills"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc


    the old man is this video is the same old man who said he was a "chi" master, now see how his supposed skills work in a real fight:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQeUkUO5ZPo


    and otis redding, if you happen to read this post then please refrain from reminding everyone that i post video evidence of my claims of certain styles being bull****, since i dont think we need that fact spammed around here any more then you already do it.
    wow... owned...

    Traditional Martial arts are all fine and well for competition purposes or the "self enlightenment" etc.. but MMA has proven what styles are effective in a real NHB match.. basically Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling...
    knocked down seven times, get up eight.
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    Registered User Dan101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Chett View Post
    here is a video of "Yanagiryuken" who is a supposed master of "chi", the old man says that he was never defeated in over 200 fights in vale tudo, and here is a video of him with his students "showing off his skills"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc


    the old man is this video is the same old man who said he was a "chi" master, now see how his supposed skills work in a real fight:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQeUkUO5ZPo


    and otis redding, if you happen to read this post then please refrain from reminding everyone that i post video evidence of my claims of certain styles being bull****, since i dont think we need that fact spammed around here any more then you already do it.
    Ok so the Master got knocked on his ass. So he was exposed as a fraud. I could argue that there may have been a hundred instances when a student of that art has beaten someone on the street. But thats not what this thread is about. I was simply making the point that peoples questions and interest in the traditional Martial Arts should be respected, they should not be made fun of and insulted just because the art is not "street fight" worthy.

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    I respect tma's and I think it's great for anyone to do any MA for any number of reasons. Whenever I come across a kung fu or tkd guy I enjoy talking to them about their style and having them show me a few things ect. I keep an open mind and don't look down on people that do these styles.

    That said I also think they are extremely ineffecient and ineffective, but I'll keep that to myself. Like the poster above said, there's no reason to disrespect someone or their art just because it isn't street effective not everyones in it for that. Now if the other person comes out with "tkd owns muay thai" or "a kung fu master would destroy a wrestler" or better yet "a systema guy would destroy mma fighters" thats a different story.

    I deffinitley agree though if someone starts a thread like "starting tae kwon do tomorrow" and gets flamed just for doing tkd that is really childish. The guys here that rip on people just for doing a tma are probably pretty immature.
    Last edited by bjjwraslter7; 11-27-2006 at 01:49 PM.
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