Deadlifts

[ftnz]

Hello fellow bodybuilding friends,

I have A Lot of flexability in my hamstrings. I started teaching aerobics at 14 which included a lot of over the head high leg kicks and stretching. I have recently decided to incorporate weight training. I did lift years ago but didn't stick with it after moving away and leaving my training partner .

I have always done deadlifts with a slight bend in my knees. I have really strong abs and glutes and never felt anything in my hammies. Probably because I just automatically contract my abs and glutes in everything I do. I tried straight leg deadlifts with a much closer stance 4 days. For the first time I have the worst hamstring soreness I have ever experienced.

I want to hit legs twice a week should I wait until the soreness has dissipitated or just train legs again anyway?

[Eileen]

Originally Posted by ftnz

I have always done deadlifts with a slight bend in my knees.

This doesn't sound like the way I do deads. I bend my knees a lot, get my bum down and lift from the legs as well as the back.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BDeadlift.html

Is this what you are doing?

[buttandlegs]

What I've noticed during my years of working out is that sometimes it takes doing an exercise many, many times before feeling it in the body part it is supposed to train. Even with perfect form, breathing, etc. Deadlifts are one of those exercises that took me many times to feel in my hamstrings.

[Biker Chick]

SLDL (Stiff Leg Deadlifts) will hit your hammies harder than any other exercise out there. You are hitting them from a different angle than your aerobics do. This is not uncommon at all. Welcome to the frankenstein walk!!! Isn't it great?!!!

I wouldn't train them again until the soreness subsides, otherwise you are overtraining and risk injury. After hitting SLDL's a few more times, you most likely won't be as sore.

[ftnz]

SLDL (Stiff Leg Deadlifts) I totally agree. I have never been this sore ever in my hammies. I've done heavy hamstring curls, squats, split squats, walking lunges you name it. I typically always feel sore in glutes, sometimes quads. This is the first time I have done SLDL's and I hit the spot I have been attempting to hit all this time. Yes, it's great.

Thanks for replying. Okay, I'll wait to train them again until the soreness subsides.

[Roger999]

Originally Posted by ftnz

SLDL (Stiff Leg Deadlifts) I totally agree. I have never been this sore ever in my hammies. I've done heavy hamstring curls, squats, split squats, walking lunges you name it. I typically always feel sore in glutes, sometimes quads. This is the first time I have done SLDL's and I hit the spot I have been attempting to hit all this time. Yes, it's great.

Thanks for replying. Okay, I'll wait to train them again until the soreness subsides.

dont do too many SLDL they put alot of pressure on lower back, and it hits lower back more then hammies, not being sore doesnt mean youre not improving, my calves have never been sore and they grew like 1.5" in a few months

[ftnz]

Actually I'm very intune to my body. I don't feel them at all in my lower back. I have super strong abs and am a stickler for form. (Former Dancer). Thanks though.

[iKermit]

You probably have a very strong lower back complimented from your abs. Stick with the SLDLs if they're working for you. I like them myself.

I would keep about 2-3 days between your leg workouts if you want to hit them twice a week. You might still be sore but your muscles should be recovered well enough.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by Roger999

dont do too many SLDL they put alot of pressure on lower back, and it hits lower back more then hammies, not being sore doesnt mean youre not improving, my calves have never been sore and they grew like 1.5" in a few months

I am exactly the same when it comes to SLDL's. They do absolutely nothing for me and wide stance (sumo) squats hit my hammies better than anything else I can do. I have a VERY strong lower and upper back too but SLDL's still do nothing for my hammies.

Everyone is different though and ultimately you have to do what works for you.

As for the muscle pain, I don't recommend training a bodypart again while it is still sore.
Biker Chick is correct about the soreness from a new exercise too. You will find that you will recover faster after the first few times doing them.

[Biker Chick]

Originally Posted by Roger999

dont do too many SLDL they put alot of pressure on lower back, and it hits lower back more then hammies, not being sore doesnt mean youre not improving, my calves have never been sore and they grew like 1.5" in a few months

If you use correct form, your lower back really shouldn't come into play. Pull your shoulders back, keep your head up, and pull your belly button to your spine. Lower by pushing your hips and butt out and then thrust hips forward and squeeze glutes. It's tough to master the form, but when done correctly really hits the hammies hard. If you're very flexible and find that it doesn't stretch enough, you can stand on a bench or a step and extend down lower - when I do these I stand on a stepper and the bar comes to the tops of my feet.

Hi Titania!!!!!!!!!

[Titania]

Originally Posted by Biker Chick

If you use correct form, your lower back really shouldn't come into play. Pull your shoulders back, keep your head up, and pull your belly button to your spine. Lower by pushing your hips and butt out and then thrust hips forward and squeeze glutes. It's tough to master the form, but when done correctly really hits the hammies hard. If you're very flexible and find that it doesn't stretch enough, you can stand on a bench or a step and extend down lower - when I do these I stand on a stepper and the bar comes to the tops of my feet.

Hi Titania!!!!!!!!!

Hey chickie...It's great to see you back here posting again.

I agree with you about technique but I still personally find SLDL's to be useless. That is just my experience though and others love them. Do what works for YOU

[darkangel]

I love SLDLs. I always have done them with legs straight, but knees not locked out. One of the trainers in my gym stopped me the other day and told me I should always have more bend at the knee - he demonstrated like a 20 degree bend or so. He said doing them straight-legged would be asking for a lower back injury. I'm very careful to tighten my abs to support my lower back. What do y'all think about the bend in the legs advice?

[ftnz]

I quit going to the gym because I was tired of being interrupted by trainers and their clients. With the exception of a few you will get better information here. I've had people come up and tap me on the shoulder while I'm wearing a headset asking,"wow, how do you get your body like that". Then their trainer would proceed to tell me I'm doing the exercise incorrectly. I've always done ATG squats. I'd laugh and say, "then why do you look the way you do and I look the way I do". They'd tell me I'm going to get injured blah, blah, blah. Listen I've been on skies since the age of 4, teaching aerobics since I was 14, running, dancing, have always done deep squats and I'm not injured. How do you explain that? They of course got very quiet.

If you have a strong core like myself and a lot of flexability in your hamstrings and you do the exercise slow and with control your fine. I think when I used to do them with a bend in my knee I was engaging glutes. ( I do recommend engaging your core in every exercise.) I read an article here about SLDL's and tried it. Wow! I hit the hamstrings better than I have ever been able to before. I don't feel a thing in my back. Just like Biker Chick said. If you use correct form, your lower back really shouldn't come into play. Take a look at that gal!

[LiftingIsLife]

Originally Posted by ftnz

I don't feel a thing in my back. Just like Biker Chick said. If you use correct form, your lower back really shouldn't come into play.

have to disagree with you here. your 'erectors' definitely get worked on
this exercise. if you already have strong ones, which you very possibly might if your core is very strong, then you wont feel them do the work, but that doesnt mean they arent working. until my erectors were well developed, i always 'felt' them doing these. nowadays i no longer do.

best,
~lifer

[ftnz]

There many different types of deadlifts. If you are doing SLDL and you don't feel you hamstrings working hard you are doing them incorrectly.

Yes, erectors are worked indirectly but your focus should be on hamstrings.

The comment about your back shouldn't come into play was to address one of the above poster who said not to do too many because they put too much pressure on the lower back. Also the gal who was told not to do Stiff Legged Deadlifts by a Trainer or she would be risking a lower back injury.

I was taught in dance class at a very young age to always contract my core. I thank that woman everday. It comes natually to me. I have seen a lot of people through the years in the gym lowering the bar up and down and do not do this. All I can say is, "Ouch". Some people even wear a belt in place of learning what I believe to be an important technique. Anyone can learn this.

[Titania]

As I have said a number of times, it is all about technique.
I agree with Lifer and Ftnz on some points.

Basically, the effectiveness of a given exercise (when done with good technique) is very much an individual thing. I have VERY strong erectors and a very strong lower and upper back which should mean that given the right technique, my hammies should be hit hard but they are NOT.
ATG squats hit my hammies ten times harder than stiff leg (or slightly bent leg) deadlifts. No matter what technique I try, SLDL's always hit my lower back the hardest.
I am a professional strongwoman / powerlifter and lifting heavy things is my career but I personally have no use for SLDL's.
They are about as effective for hammies as dumbell kickbacks are for triceps FOR ME!!
FWIW, dumbell kickbacks are the most useless exercise ever created. The only people who go on about them are textbook personal trainers.

[LiftingIsLife]

^^^ very well said.....

best,
~lifer

[John Prophet]

typically hams are a muscle that gets VERY sore....very fast twitch muscle I suppose....think about how many torn/pulled hams athletes have

IMo you should go ahead do do the sldl's even thru the soreness....just warm up plenty and maybe dont try to force the stretch as much this time...dont try to force the full range of motion on the first few reps or even the first set

after a few workouts you wont get as sore

IMo the worst thing you can do for a sore muscle is to totally avoid working it

[ftnz]

Yeah, ya know it's weird. I just have never been sore in my hamstrings. I wonder if it's because of the flexability I have in them. I mean I can pretty much touch my elbows on the floor from a straight leg position. Or maybe it's because I automatically contract my glutes and abs really tight in almost every exercise I perform. When I tried the SLDL's with totally locked knees for the first time I had incredible soreness in them for 4 days. Hmm but I also moved my legs super close together.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

typically hams are a muscle that gets VERY sore....very fast twitch muscle I suppose....think about how many torn/pulled hams athletes have

IMo you should go ahead do do the sldl's even thru the soreness....just warm up plenty and maybe dont try to force the stretch as much this time...dont try to force the full range of motion on the first few reps or even the first set

after a few workouts you wont get as sore

IMo the worst thing you can do for a sore muscle is to totally avoid working it

I agree with some of what you say and I disagree with other parts.
Definitely agree about warming up. That should be done before anything heavy or full ROM is attempted.
I totally disagree about training through the soreness though, You need to let a muscle group recover before training it again otherwise you will overtrain and go backwards.
The body gets sore for a reason. It is telling you that it isn't recovered yet.
There are various opinions about how long after soreness you should wait before training the same muscle group but I believe that is a very individual thing that you need to discover through trial and error.

[pgb2006]

I always used the sldl as a finishing move with lighter weight. I used to do squats followed by the barbell lunge,followed by step ups and then sldl and then extensions,leg curls and finally calf work and that seemed to hit everything just right. There is no one exercise that does it all or that cannot be substuted for the time being with another.

Yes, do wait for soreness to go away before working the muscle again. If your hamstrings are staying constantly sore then you could have a back problem but feel the pain in your legs. Take care all the soreness is gone and that the soreness is indeed your muscles and not from anything pulled or nerve impingement.

Too much weight on these sldl will do absolutely nothing but make your back prone to injury so unload the bar and concentrate on form. It is the same with leg extensions..no need for a lot of weight to get it to work. When I used to do sldl I found them quite good but still not vital to my whole program.

sldl eventually started to aggravate my back so I found other things to do and my results stayed good as long as I kept after doing something for them. Go by how this exercise feels to you mindful of keeping the weight reasonable and noting results. Ditch the exercise completely if you cannot conform to doing it correctly without getting the bad injured kind of pain. You will always "know" after some time goes by if a certain exercise has you on the right track.

I think step ups and lunges done correctly are great for the hamstrings,glutes and sweep of the thighs too. Stair climbing is good too. Give some room for your workouts to evolve over time.

[ftnz]

I would certainly know the difference between muscle soreness and something torn, pulled or a nerve impingement. Where did that come from? I was sore for 4 days in the lower half of my hamstring because again for like the 4th time I tried SLDL's (stiff legged) for the first time. I have done Deadlifts plenty in the past with a partial bend in my knees. I am a former dancer so I am a stickler for form. I taught isometic and aerobic classes for over 20 years. I do plenty of walking lunges, stepups and squats. I train at home and do not have a leg extension machine here but have used them plenty in the past. I'm a bigger fan of compound exercises anyway.

[pgb2006]

Originally Posted by ftnz

I would certainly know the difference between muscle soreness and something torn, pulled or a nerve impingement. Where did that come from? I was sore for 4 days in the lower half of my hamstring because again for like the 4th time I tried SLDL's (stiff legged) for the first time. I have done Deadlifts plenty in the past with a partial bend in my knees. I am a former dancer so I am a stickler for form. I taught isometic and aerobic classes for over 20 years. I do plenty of walking lunges, stepups and squats. I train at home and do not have a leg extension machine here but have used them plenty in the past. I'm a bigger fan of compound exercises anyway.

It was JFYI and my intentions are good hearted. I repped you and sent you a welcome to the board. I`m being nice trying to help out.

I didn`t know you were an expert. You did ask if you should let the soreness go away before you did more and one reason to let soreness go away besides letting the muscles recover is to make sure all is well.

If you already know this stuff then cut me some slack since I`m just a visitor here wanting to write and share about working out.