Bodybuilding.com Information Motivation Supplementation
in:

    The World’s #1 Bodybuilding And Fitness Forum - Save Up To 50% Off Retail Prices In Our Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33
  1. #1
    Message Board King Baldsnake's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Location: United States
    Age: 74
    Posts: 2,829
    BodyPoints: 9599
    Rep Power: 0
    Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Baldsnake's BodySpace
    Baldsnake is offline

    Fish oil and low dose asprin...a no no combination??

    I have been on a low dose baby aspirin for several years with the encouragement of my bro-in-law Cardiologist. A week ago I added in fish oil and have been bruising badly. Even on the underside of my arms where I did heavy Scott curls yesterday....right where the curl bench hit my arms. Sucker is HUGE. I just read several articles on the web that suggest not combining the two due to excessive bruising. Anyone else experience this??

    Bruised, battered but never beaten....
    Baldie
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Hey Baldie-
    I'm on Plavix, FULL aspirin, and fish oil. I'm constantly developing large bruises - last weekend, I carried a TV upstairs to a bedroom and I've had these black and blues on the inside of my forearms where the cabinet was pressing!

    The bruising is from the combo of aspirin and fish oil - both tend to reduce clotting, increase bleeding time and mak the blood "slippery". This is heart protective and reduces risk for heart attack and can also minimize damage if you do have one.

    BUT - you should be taking them for a reason. What's your risk factor other than age? Protocol these days in cardiology is low dose aspririn for those in our age group. Heart disease in the family? Your cardiac history show any problems? Any stents for instance? Risky blood chemistry?

    For me, I've had an MI, 3 stents, and one incident last summer with what they guessed was a plaque break in one of my coronary arteries. The meds I was taking saved me that time from any damage.

    The cosmetics do suck - who wants to walk around with black and blues all the time? But it comes down to risk vs reward. For me it makese sense. For you - you really need to discuss with your doc.

    Th science should be respected but should be used in the context of the individual.

    I hope this helps somewhat. If there's anything else I can offer you, please let me know and I'll try to provide you more background.
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User stahlhart's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2004
    Location: Michigan, United States
    Age: 53
    Stats: 5'9", 189 lbs
    Posts: 2,000
    BodyPoints: 12560
    Rep Power: 1224
    stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) stahlhart has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit stahlhart's BodySpace
    stahlhart is offline

    Post

    Fish oil 6g/day, low dose aspirin 2x/day, no unusual bruising issues. (?)
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    diet soda addict someday's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2004
    Location: on the friggin stepmill!
    Age: 44
    Stats: 5'6", 148 lbs
    Posts: 3,144
    BodyPoints: 8414
    Rep Power: 1986
    someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit someday's BodySpace
    someday is offline
    no way

    when i cut for a show i use both and i'm always complaining about how easy i bruise. if i bump into anything i end up with one. even a smack on the ass and i'll have a handprint there for a week.

    never made the connection
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by someday
    ...when i cut for a show i use both...
    Curious - why would you include aspirin and fish oil in a cutting regimen?
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User Bob 1's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Posts: 551
    BodyPoints: 3928
    Rep Power: 1324
    Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Bob 1 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Bob 1's BodySpace
    Bob 1 is offline
    I guess I can be the class Guinea pig so to speak. I do take the low dose aspirin and I bought some fish oil yesterday. No bruising anywhere so I will see what happens in a couple of weeks.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    diet soda addict someday's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2004
    Location: on the friggin stepmill!
    Age: 44
    Stats: 5'6", 148 lbs
    Posts: 3,144
    BodyPoints: 8414
    Rep Power: 1986
    someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit someday's BodySpace
    someday is offline
    Originally Posted by FittyFour
    Curious - why would you include aspirin and fish oil in a cutting regimen?
    fish oils are my main fat source and the asprin is part of my eca (ephedrine, caffine & asprin) stack.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by someday
    fish oils are my main fat source and the asprin is part of my eca (ephedrine, caffine & asprin) stack.
    I understand the thermogenic effects you're looking for in the ephedrine and the caffeine...but still don't understand the aspirin....???
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    I want a PB&J Mr. Someday's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2004
    Age: 45
    Stats: 6'1", 270 lbs
    Posts: 4,011
    BodyPoints: 12973
    Rep Power: 9808
    Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr. Someday has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mr. Someday's BodySpace
    Mr. Someday is offline
    Originally Posted by FittyFour
    I understand the thermogenic effects you're looking for in the ephedrine and the caffeine...but still don't understand the aspirin....???

    Aspirin is often added to fat burner products because it reduces urinary excretion of ephedrine—thus keeping it in the blood longer and prolonging ephedrine’s stimulating effects.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by Mr. Someday
    Aspirin is often added to fat burner products because it reduces urinary excretion of ephedrine—thus keeping it in the blood longer and prolonging ephedrine’s stimulating effects.
    Rather than hijack the thread, I'll start a new one on this subject...
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User joed's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Age: 70
    Stats: 6'0", 215 lbs
    Posts: 6,476
    BodyPoints: 21813
    Rep Power: 6368
    joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit joed's BodySpace
    joed is offline

    No-no? Or sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    What an interesting thread, snake. I've been thinking about it all day. Don't quite know how to phrase this, so I'll give the 'Reader's Digest' version.

    From what I've read, aspirin and fish oil both cause many different biochemical effects in the body ranging from the blood clotting factors you mentioned to lipid levels. As far as blood thinning, taking a low dose of aspirin is not significantly different than taking a full dose, and the effect lasts about 3 days. Fish oils are more unclear, since the 'strength' is often not standardized, the issue of becoming spoiled/rancid is present, and the amount absorbed and used by the body may differ from person to person more than aspirin.

    I take both and I haven't had much of a bruising problem. But I don't take both everyday. Since the aspirin's effects last 3 days, I take a low dose once every 3 days, and on that day I don't take fish oil. Also, I take less than 2 gms of fish oil daily, and that oil is a combination of Omega 6 and 3 from Borage Oil and GLA, and Marine lipids and DHA.

    Having said all that, when I get cut I bleed like a stuck pig. But bruising is not much of an issue at all. Bottom line: I wonder if the dosage you & Someday & maybe others take needs to be adjusted slightly?
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by joed
    Having said all that, when I get cut I bleed like a stuck pig. But bruising is not much of an issue at all. Bottom line: I wonder if the dosage you & Someday & maybe others take needs to be adjusted slightly?
    The bleeding is showing the anti-clotting factor of the aspirin. The fact that you're not bruising easily has as much to do with the condition of your skin and underlying connctive tissue as it does with the dosage

    Another thing to consider is that the older we get the more our underlying connective tissue breaks down. With that support getting "thinner" and with the addition of a thinning drug like aspirin, we bruise more easily. It's also why bruising, along with the medications that are taken, is a big problem with the elderly.

    But that's why I also meniioned earlier about discussing with a doctor. Taking any medication over an extended period of time, even if it's an OTC product like aspirin, is not something to be done without supervision.

    The dose should also be dependent on the "condition" and on your own particular needs. What works for one, may be undermedicating OR overmedicating for another. Which also means that even on a "baby dose" of aspirin - 81 mg - some will show bruising and some won't.

    What really needs to be paid attention to is bruising that occurs without any known reason at all.

    These kinds of issues also give me pause when it comes to supplements. I try not to start dumping things into my system just based on opinions that "it gave me massive pumps" or "tremendous gains in just weeks". It's an old lesson that I mentiond before - ANYTHING you take for a medicinal effect will come with side effects.

    Just my .02
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Message Board King Baldsnake's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Location: United States
    Age: 74
    Posts: 2,829
    BodyPoints: 9599
    Rep Power: 0
    Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Baldsnake's BodySpace
    Baldsnake is offline
    All very thought provoking gents....
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Master of Reality FlyingV's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Location: Westminster, California, United States
    Stats: 6'3", 218 lbs
    Posts: 2,876
    BodyPoints: 11971
    Rep Power: 16244
    FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit FlyingV's BodySpace
    FlyingV is offline
    My .02 is bruising like this doesn't have much to do with the blood itself or clotting factors. Rather, thinning the blood exposes deficits in the structural integrity of capillary tissue. Ruptured capillary beds only -and not any physical property of the blood itself - are what allow the blood to leak out into the surrounding tissue giving rise to the soft tissue bruising you describe. The fish oil and aspirin simply allow more blood to leak out before the repair process has taken effect. But the root of the problem is the integrity of those capillaries.

    When you have a liquid under pressure in a closed system like our circulatory system, the thinner the viscosity of that fluid, the easier and quicker that fluid can breach the seals and weak spots of the system containing that liquid....which structurally speaking is always going to be at the capillary level, if not there's a medical emergency afoot (bruising vs. hemmorhaging)

    So before ditching the aspiring/fish oill I'd suggest increasing your ascorbate (2-5 grams a day of vitamin C in any form) and bioflavanoid (500mg-1.5 g a day) intake and possibly adding in some dirt cheap vitamin K.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Message Board King Baldsnake's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Location: United States
    Age: 74
    Posts: 2,829
    BodyPoints: 9599
    Rep Power: 0
    Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Baldsnake has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Baldsnake's BodySpace
    Baldsnake is offline
    FV...very wise grasshopper. I take and have been for 25+ years 2gm of Ascorbic Acid and 3gm BioFlavs. Also stopped my ongoing gum problems cold.
    Hard to believe I bruised like I did. Perhaps its just being over 39.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by FlyingV
    My .02 is bruising like this doesn't have much to do with the blood itself or clotting factors. Rather, thinning the blood exposes deficits in the structural integrity of capillary tissue.
    I think that's a bit misleading. If you bump your leg into your desk, for instance, chances are you're going to damage the underlying tissue and break a few capillaries. Under normal circumstances, the bleeding is cut off quickly with little pooling in the surrounding tissue, and very little if any bruising is noted.

    When you use a blood thinning medication like aspirin, you still sustain the damage but because the clotting is compromised by the anti-coagulant properties of the aspirin, bleeding continues longer than normal, more blood pools which leads to larger - and uglier - bruising.

    Excessive bleeding from aspirin is a clinical fact and the bruising has as much to do with this side effect as the supporting connective tissue underneath.

    I do agree that excessive bruising, exclusive of the use of blood thinning medications, is something to be concerned about. The elderly are very prone to bruising since they do suffer from the breakdown of underlying tissue - you can even bruise them by grabbing their arm too hard leaving purplish welts where fingers have dug in.

    Originally Posted by FlyingV
    So before ditching the aspiring/fish oill I'd suggest increasing your ascorbate (2-5 grams a day of vitamin C in any form) and bioflavanoid (500mg-1.5 g a day) intake and possibly adding in some dirt cheap vitamin K.
    The aspirin was prescribed by a cardiologist to reduce the risk factors associated with heart disease and possibly mediate any injury following heart attack.

    Yet above you just *prescribed* Vitamin K which neutralizes the effects of the aspirin, increases clotting, and raises the risk level. Dangerous medicine unless you know exactly what you're playing with...
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Master of Reality FlyingV's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Location: Westminster, California, United States
    Stats: 6'3", 218 lbs
    Posts: 2,876
    BodyPoints: 11971
    Rep Power: 16244
    FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FlyingV has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit FlyingV's BodySpace
    FlyingV is offline
    Originally Posted by FittyFour
    When you use a blood thinning medication like aspirin, you still sustain the damage but because the clotting is compromised by the anti-coagulant properties of the aspirin, bleeding continues longer than normal, more blood pools which leads to larger - and uglier - bruising.

    <snip>

    Yet above you just *prescribed* Vitamin K which neutralizes the effects of the aspirin, increases clotting, and raises the risk level. Dangerous medicine unless you know exactly what you're playing with...
    The first point I mentioned in my post.

    On the second point, there is a nutritional and physiological need for vitamin K, not for aspirin, which to me argues in favor of using both.
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by FlyingV
    The first point I mentioned in my post.
    What you wrote was "bruising like this doesn't have much to do with the blood itself or clotting factors." I disagreed in that you discounted the anti-coagulant properties of the medication.

    Originally Posted by FlyingV
    On the second point, there is a nutritional and physiological need for vitamin K, not for aspirin, which to me argues in favor of using both.
    The aspirin was prescribed by a physician for the purpose of thinning the blood. Physiologically you could argue that there's no need for the aspirin in the general population. In the population that is at risk of cardiovascular disease, the aspirin has been clinically proven to reduce cardiovascular risk and ameliorate the injury sustained following a heart attack.

    The aspirin acts as an anticoagulant, ie prevents or slows down blood clotting.

    Vitamin K is essential for syntheszing the protein that aids in blood clotting.

    Hear of Coumadin? That's a pretty heavy duty blood thinner - and usually when a patient is taking it, they're told to avoid dark, leafy, greens. Why? Because they're high in Vitamin K and would counteract the effects of the coumadin. One works against the other.

    So I ask again - if you have a patient that is taking a medication specifically to reduce the possibility of clot formation, why would you prescribe a supplement (ie medication) that would enhance clotting?

    Or am I missing your point....?
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Registered User RCOBBGA's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Age: 43
    Posts: 1
    Rep Power: 0
    RCOBBGA is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    RCOBBGA is offline

    Unhappy Need advice

    I am 36 & going in for a heart cath for an apparent blockage or blockages. The cardiologist seems to think it is genetic & steroid related however I'm not completely sold on the steroid part. My question is will stents limit me in any way as far as weight training & cardio? Will I be able to do the same things that I use to? Any info will be appreciated. Thanks!


    Originally Posted by FittyFour View Post
    Hey Baldie-
    I'm on Plavix, FULL aspirin, and fish oil. I'm constantly developing large bruises - last weekend, I carried a TV upstairs to a bedroom and I've had these black and blues on the inside of my forearms where the cabinet was pressing!

    The bruising is from the combo of aspirin and fish oil - both tend to reduce clotting, increase bleeding time and mak the blood "slippery". This is heart protective and reduces risk for heart attack and can also minimize damage if you do have one.

    BUT - you should be taking them for a reason. What's your risk factor other than age? Protocol these days in cardiology is low dose aspririn for those in our age group. Heart disease in the family? Your cardiac history show any problems? Any stents for instance? Risky blood chemistry?

    For me, I've had an MI, 3 stents, and one incident last summer with what they guessed was a plaque break in one of my coronary arteries. The meds I was taking saved me that time from any damage.

    The cosmetics do suck - who wants to walk around with black and blues all the time? But it comes down to risk vs reward. For me it makese sense. For you - you really need to discuss with your doc.

    Th science should be respected but should be used in the context of the individual.

    I hope this helps somewhat. If there's anything else I can offer you, please let me know and I'll try to provide you more background.
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    Registered User micro wave's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2007
    Location: Minnesota, United States
    Age: 38
    Stats: 5'10", 190 lbs
    Posts: 670
    BodyPoints: 2606
    Rep Power: 1060
    micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit micro wave's BodySpace
    micro wave is offline
    Well have the angio first. At your age blockage isnt as likely as vasospasm causing angina unless your diet is horrible and have a bad genetic predisposition.

    If you do get plastied and stents just follow their recommendations of taking it easy for a while and ease back into cardio. Your interventionalist will have all the info for you. Heavy weights will be out for a while for sure.

    Good luck.
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Pontifex Maximus PopeGregorius's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Location: SE Queensland, Australia
    Stats: 574'1", 202 lbs
    Posts: 5,126
    BodyPoints: 15925
    Rep Power: 5035
    PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) PopeGregorius has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit PopeGregorius's BodySpace
    PopeGregorius is offline
    Aspirin & fish oil both thin the blood. If you use both then exercise caution.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2004
    Stats: 1'1", 1 lbs
    Posts: 7,350
    BodyPoints: 29633
    Rep Power: 9167
    Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mark1T has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mark1T's BodySpace
    Mark1T is offline
    Not so sure, but maybe. I take 2 baby aspirin along with 1000mg fish oil and 1000mg flax seed oil. I don't think that I bruise anymore than if I didn't.

    Last week I cut the end of my finger with my extremely sharp pocket knife and blead like crazy because I think it hit a vein. It healed completely in 5 days.

    I dunno, everybody is different. But, with Plavix or similar drugs in addition, then yes, I can see it being a problem.
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    Registered User micro wave's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2007
    Location: Minnesota, United States
    Age: 38
    Stats: 5'10", 190 lbs
    Posts: 670
    BodyPoints: 2606
    Rep Power: 1060
    micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) micro wave has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit micro wave's BodySpace
    micro wave is offline
    I think fish oil works more as a anti-platelet aggregate like Plavix then a "blood thinner."

    I use both and haven't noticed any increase in bruising. Not to say this doesnt happen in others. My clotting time is actually good as well, at least in my capillaries where I check my blood sugar.
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Registered User joed's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Age: 70
    Stats: 6'0", 215 lbs
    Posts: 6,476
    BodyPoints: 21813
    Rep Power: 6368
    joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit joed's BodySpace
    joed is offline
    RCO, thank you for breathing life into this old thread. I have some new info to add to my previous post in November. Like you, 6 wks ago I was being wheeled into the heart cath lab where they found a 90% blockage in a circumflex artery; a drug coated stent was inserted into the blockage. When I went home I started by walking (the same day) to the end of the block and back, & felt tired enough to lay down. I added a bit more each day & now I'm up to 30 mins 3X/day. As for lifting, I was told that I could return to the gym after a couple of wks but I should focus on LIGHT WEIGHTS and more reps, which I've done. At this point I'm almost totally back to where I had been.

    In order for them to take you into the cath lab, you must've had angina or other symptoms. If there is a significant blockage, more then ~ 50%, it's likely they'll want to stent it or drill through it with the 'roto rooter'. Either way, I'd suggest from my experiences that you make sure your common sense overrules your enthusiasm when you get out of the hospital.

    Snake, if you're around, want you to know that since my stent the bruising has increased tremendously. DK if it's from the plavix or the full dose aspirin, which has been decreased to 180 mg OD. The cardiac nurse practitioner thought it was more from the plavix. I'm only taking 1 gm of fish oil twice wkly now. Whatever it's from, the bruises come easily & they're big.
    Last edited by joed; 07-12-2007 at 08:37 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Registered Lifter WeebleNoMore's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Location: Ohio, United States
    Age: 43
    Stats: 6'0", 210 lbs
    Posts: 552
    BodyPoints: 10216
    Rep Power: 142
    WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) WeebleNoMore has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    Visit WeebleNoMore's BodySpace
    WeebleNoMore is offline
    Originally Posted by someday View Post
    ...even a smack on the ass and i'll have a handprint there for a week.
    Note to self...
    Non Smoker since August 1, 2007

    If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. ~ Frank A. Clark
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by joed View Post
    Snake, if you're around, want you to know that since my stent the bruising has increased tremendously. DK if it's from the plavix or the full dose aspirin, which has been decreaded to 180 mg OD. The cardiac nurse practitioner thought it was more from the plavix. I'm only taking 1 gm of fish oil twice wkly now. Whatever it's from, the bruises come easily & they're big.
    The Plavix is probably the big offender but the combo of Plavix-aspirin-fish oil has a synergistic effect. I was surprised the doc gave you an ok jsut a few weeks out to go back to the gym with weights. I was told 6 months, then a stress test, and then into cardiac rehab, then into the gym. But then again, I had an MI and then was stented.

    Since you've had a drug eluting (medicated) stent inserted, you'll probably be on Plavix indefinitely. There's an issue with how well these type of stents - as opposed to bare metal - are endothelizing in the arteries. My doc feels that in about 1-2 years, the science might say it's ok to come off the Plavix. But the fish oil and aspirin will always be part of the regimen.

    As far as limitations with stents, this is more dependent on your general state of healh and medical history. I'm nearly 5 years out from my first stent, two years out from two other stents (also right circumflex). Doc says I'm probably in better shape now that when I first had the MI. His only request is I don't start looking to make personal bests in the gym - and to keep my heart rate no higher than about 145 bpm max.

    Other than that, he said that I *must* be in the gym 3-5 times per week and probably more important than the meds!
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Registered User joed's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Age: 70
    Stats: 6'0", 215 lbs
    Posts: 6,476
    BodyPoints: 21813
    Rep Power: 6368
    joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joed has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit joed's BodySpace
    joed is offline
    Originally Posted by FittyFour View Post
    ...I was surprised the doc gave you an ok jsut a few weeks out to go back to the gym with weights. I was told 6 months, then a stress test, and then into cardiac rehab, then into the gym...
    Well you're younger than me so that probably explains it. As far as the plavix, it's one year, not "indefinitely". Endothelialization should be fine, as I'm cutting out all the unnecessary fats in my diet. Seems to me that if you had 2 more stents put in only 3 yrs after the first one, you're not doing everything right.
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Registered User domineaux's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 1,243
    Rep Power: 193
    domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) domineaux has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    domineaux is offline

    Thumbs up Aspirin and Macular Degeneration -

    I rarely take aspirin, but I thought I'd share what I read awhile back.

    Aspirin it seems can be a serious contributor to Macular Degeneration of the eyes. It seems there is some problem with bleeding in the eye caused by the blood being thinned. So... I guess it means choosing between dying of a heartattack or being blind. There should be a workaround for this if you do have to take a blood thinner type drug like aspirin.

    I've had some bruising similar to others in the thread when I combined the two, but I didn't realize that was the cause of the bruising. I'll sure be watching from here on.

    Informative thread worth reading thats for sure.
    HST is my choice of training
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/index.html
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Registered User FittyFour's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: New York
    Age: 62
    Posts: 592
    Rep Power: 1270
    FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) FittyFour has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    FittyFour is offline
    Originally Posted by joed View Post
    Well you're younger than me so that probably explains it. As far as the plavix, it's one year, not "indefinitely". Endothelialization should be fine, as I'm cutting out all the unnecessary fats in my diet. Seems to me that if you had 2 more stents put in only 3 yrs after the first one, you're not doing everything right.
    I don't know that age is the determining factor at this point - although I don't see your age listed. It normally takes from 6 months to a year for the stent to be fully integrated into the blood vessel. Until then, you're at risk. That's what I was told by my doc - opinions can differ.

    Currently, there is conflicting information about the clotting risk of drug eluting stents. At minimum, it's been recommended that if this type of stent is used, Plavix should be prescribed for *at least* one year. The problem is that they're finding heightened clotting risk beyond the one year window compared to the bare metal stents. So there are cardiologists who are recommending that Plavix be continued until there's some more definitive clinical data. As I stated earlier, my cardiologist felt that within the next 1-2 years, we'll have that data and most likely we'll be able to stop the Plavix.

    But he also feels until the debate is resolved, he wants to keep my risk of clotting that stent as low as possible.

    As far as not doing everything right - the speculation is that what happened to me 3 years after my first stent was a plaque rupture - a break in the hardened plaque inside the artery that then clotted over and narrowed the artery. No one knows why this happens. It has nothing to with doing things right or wrong.

    I also can't change genetics - not with diet, not with medication, not with supplements. My father died of heart disease in his early 50's, my sister has had heart problems beginning in her 50's that now necessitates her wearing a defibrillator. I'm in that familial age group now and trust me, I'm highly vigilant.

    Therapy should be individualized to the patient. But where the science is conflicting, I'd rather err on the side of caution.
    Knocked down seven times, stand up eight.
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    "Charlie don't surf!" crazycelt's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: Ohio, United States
    Age: 57
    Stats: 5'6", 163 lbs
    Posts: 949
    BodyPoints: 15596
    Rep Power: 2089
    crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) crazycelt has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit crazycelt's BodySpace
    crazycelt is offline
    I've been taking both for years, no problems.......
    "Perhaps I am stronger than I think."
    -Thomas Merton
    Reply With Quote

Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Home Store Products Careers Help Contact Us Terms of Use Checkout