And now they want to tax how many miles you drive

[kratosbrah]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...#axzz2iwmWC42f

WASHINGTON — As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

The tea party is aghast. The American Civil Liberties Union is deeply concerned, too, raising a variety of privacy issues.

And while Congress can't agree on whether to proceed, several states are not waiting. They are exploring how, over the next decade, they can move to a system in which drivers pay per mile of road they roll over. Thousands of motorists have already taken the black boxes, some of which have GPS monitoring, for a test drive.

"This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do," said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments, which is planning for the state to start tracking miles driven by every California motorist by 2025. "There is going to be a change in how we pay these taxes. The technology is there to do it."

And who supports this?

Libertarians have joined environmental groups in lobbying to allow government to use the little boxes to keep track of the miles you drive, and possibly where you drive them — then use the information to draw up a tax bill.

It is no surprise that the idea appeals to urban liberals, as the taxes could be rigged to change driving patterns in ways that could help reduce congestion and greenhouse gases, for example.

lmao... Liberals is no surprise, but lmao...

[tsbalr120]

Liberals lack common sense

[kratosbrah]

Liberals lack common sense

I can't see how the people pushing this can possibly think this doesn't infringe any rights.

[sawoobley]

Well they have already installed smart meters to monitor our electricity. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...50416142448555

I'm waiting for the health monitor implants that will relay our health in real time and provide our GPS location so the government can intervene in case something goes wrong. http://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Tollan_health_implant

[otisthebat]

i SERIOUSLY doubt libertarians support this, as the article claims.

of course, there could be one or two people who are self proclaimed libertarians who are lobbying. but they certainly do not speak for all libertarians.

[nutsy54]

Gallon-based taxing is simple, straightforward, and immediate. It also roughly parallels costs - a heavier vehicle (which causes more damage ) will burn more fuel.

But instead of simply increasing that tax to match required spending, we Herpa Derp need to develop yet another massive & convoluted big-government organization

[betaphaggler]

Gallon-based taxing is simple, straightforward, and immediate. It also roughly parallels costs - a heavier vehicle (which causes more damage ) will burn more fuel.

But instead of simply increasing that tax to match required spending, we Herpa Derp need to develop yet another massive & convoluted big-government organization

"What was true in 1961, however, is no longer true today. The gas tax has encountered plenty of “social resistances,” especially in the last decade. In an April 2013 Gallup poll, two-thirds of respondents said they opposed higher gas taxes even if the money were reserved for spending on roads, bridges, and mass transit". http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanaly...ians-broke-it/

Also see - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-privacy-cost/

What is your solution then? Congress is being restrained by its constituents to raise the per-gallon anymore, while moderates, business and dems are nearing agreement the system needs to be overhauled due to rising freeway demand and crumbling of the old one. I'm interested to hear how you would tackle a ramshackled congress now being compounded by the no prisoner TEA party which is effectively killing any talks in the future of raising it.

[TaeBoNinja]

There would be riots in California if this happened. CA would litterally turn into a Red State overnight. (srs)

[FawkinJuicy]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...#axzz2iwmWC42f

And who supports this?

Libertarians have joined environmental groups in lobbying to allow government to use the little boxes to keep track of the miles you drive, and possibly where you drive them — then use the information to draw up a tax bill.

No true libertarian would support a device that would allow the government to track your miles, or a device whose sole purpose is to create more tax revenue for the government. These are two things staunchly opposed by libertarians. The problem is that the word 'libertarian' is being diluted by the fact that you have a bunch of statist RINOs that want to grow government just a fraction of the pace slower than Democrats, and all of a sudden those individuals are labeled libertarians, or anarchists by ignorant people.

Again, the government collects $2T/yr in tax revenue and it can't even maintain the roads w/ that much stolen income. Of course, just like education... the solution must be to throw more money at a failed govt program. And for some reason, people think that only government can build roads... SMH...

[sawoobley]

What is your solution then? Congress is being restrained by its constituents to raise the per-gallon anymore, while moderates, business and dems are nearing agreement the system needs to be overhauled due to rising freeway demand and crumbling of the old one. I'm interested to hear how you would tackle a ramshackled congress now being compounded by the no prisoner TEA party which is effectively killing any talks in the future of raising it.

If they actually spent the money on roads and bridges people wouldn't be so opposed to it. In southern California, we pay up the ying-yang and our roads/freeways are terrible. When they do start to work on them it takes years.

[betaphaggler]

If they actually spent the money on roads and bridges people wouldn't be so opposed to it. In southern California, we pay up the ying-yang and our roads/freeways are terrible. When they do start to work on them it takes years.

The disparity between tax in to repairs and upgrades needed on the federal level is beyond just "spend the money efficiently". It's literally turning into a business and infrastructure crisis also due to people driving less and vehicles becoming more efficient and further nullifying a per gallon solution (unless these idiots manned up for a raise). Where did my buddy Nutsy go? Just one and done partisan shot?

[ausluke]

didn't read article but first thing that comes to mind is why can't they just tax gas?

it's good because it encourages people to drive more efficient cars

[sawoobley]

The disparity between tax in to repairs and upgrades needed on the federal level is beyond just "spend the money efficiently". It's literally turning into a business and infrastructure crisis also due to people driving less and vehicles becoming more efficient and further nullifying a per gallon solution (unless these idiots manned up for a raise). Where did my buddy Nutsy go? Just one and done partisan shot?

Californians spend 39.5 cents per gallon of gas in state taxes. A lot more than most other states. Overall the tax is 72 cents per gallon. The highest in the nation.
http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/tax_info.aspx
http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Calif...4185-1872.aspx

The gas mileage hasn't changed that much in the last 20 years.
http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/ri...ble_04_23.html

BRIDGES
2,978 of the 24,812 bridges in California (12.0%) are considered structurally deficient.
4,178 of the 24,812 bridges in California (16.8%) are considered functionally obsolete.
California received $429.3 million from the Federal Highway Bridge Fund in FY2011.

ROADS
Driving on roads in need of repair costs California motorists $13.892 billion a year in extra vehicle repairs and operating costs – $586 per motorist.
68% of California’s roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
California has 171,874 public road miles.
California’s highway vehicle-miles traveled in 2009 was approximately 8,647 per capita, ranking it 40th in the nation.
California’s gas tax of 48.7 cents per gallon has not been increased in 0 years.

http://www.infrastructurereportcard....rnia-overview/


We get taxed left and right in California and have very little to show for it IMO.

[betaphaggler]

- didnt read

- but

- why can't they just tax gas?

I got sum bad newz

[otisthebat]

didn't read article but first thing that comes to mind is why can't they just tax gas?

it's good because it encourages people to drive more efficient cars

and bad because it hurts people who NEED to drive inefficient vehicles for their business, or for their daily lives. also hurts the poor, unless you think someone working 3 minimum wage jobs can afford a new car let alone one of those expensive ass hybrid/electric/whatever vehicles.

you dont really think before you type do you?

[ausluke]

and bad because it hurts people who NEED to drive inefficient vehicles for their business, or for their daily lives. also hurts the poor, unless you think someone working 3 minimum wage jobs can afford a new car let alone one of those expensive ass hybrid/electric/whatever vehicles.

you dont really think before you type do you?

gas isn't tax deductible for business's in the US?

an old toyota corolla is more expensive to buy and run than an old V8?

interesting.

[flairon]

People are already doing this, they just don't realize it. What do you think that 'geico snapshot' insurance gizmo is for

[tk217]

So they're going to take tax off gasoline and exchange it for this?

[otisthebat]

gas isn't tax deductible for business's in the US?

an old toyota corolla is more expensive to buy and run than an old V8?

interesting.

the cost still gets passed to consumers.

who said anything about a V8? im talking about someone who already drives a beat up corolla that gets 17mpg. they cant afford to buy a new car that gets 25mpg. no one is going to save money to buy an older car just because it gets better mileage because they realize they will spend more money on mechanics than gas.

also, what about me? i have to drive a pickup truck because i have to haul my lawnmower and other equipment.

[tk217]

the cost still gets passed to consumers.

who said anything about a V8? im talking about someone who already drives a beat up corolla that gets 17mpg. they cant afford to buy a new car that gets 25mpg. no one is going to save money to buy an older car just because it gets better mileage because they realize they will spend more money on mechanics than gas.

also, what about me? i have to drive a pickup truck because i have to haul my lawnmower and other equipment.

What about you? If I drive for work I deduct based on mileage. It is a standard rate. 55 cents per Mile.

[ausluke]

the cost still gets passed to consumers.

who said anything about a V8? im talking about someone who already drives a beat up corolla that gets 17mpg. they cant afford to buy a new car that gets 25mpg. no one is going to save money to buy an older car just because it gets better mileage because they realize they will spend more money on mechanics than gas.

also, what about me? i have to drive a pickup truck because i have to haul my lawnmower and other equipment.

for business purposes? then wouldn't it be tax delectable?

[BEATINGU]

I don't get the purpose of this.

How much money is raised by the gasoline tax? And is that not enough to fund roads?

[flairon]

Well they have already installed smart meters to monitor our electricity. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...50416142448555

I'm waiting for the health monitor implants that will relay our health in real time and provide our GPS location so the government can intervene in case something goes wrong. http://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Tollan_health_implant

They kinda have something like that already. I was reading about a blanket being used for patients in the australian outback that can monitor the patients temp, breathing, and heartbeat and then wirelessly transmit the info to the doctor to be monitored and if something goes wrong an alarm /text is sent.

[flairon]

I don't get the purpose of this.

How much money is raised by the gasoline tax? And is that not enough to fund roads?

It does fund roads. In afghanistan and Iraq

[nutsy54]

"What was true in 1961, however, is no longer true today. The gas tax has encountered plenty of “social resistances,” especially in the last decade. In an April 2013 Gallup poll, two-thirds of respondents said they opposed higher gas taxes even if the money were reserved for spending on roads, bridges, and mass transit". http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanaly...ians-broke-it/

Also see - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-privacy-cost/

What is your solution then? Congress is being restrained by its constituents to raise the per-gallon anymore, while moderates, business and dems are nearing agreement the system needs to be overhauled due to rising freeway demand and crumbling of the old one. I'm interested to hear how you would tackle a ramshackled congress now being compounded by the no prisoner TEA party which is effectively killing any talks in the future of raising it.

Are honestly justifying an entirely new and expensive taxation program based on the fact that people... Don't like paying taxes?

What level of "social resistance" will be seen when that first (monthly? quarterly? annual?) mileage bill arrives?

Meanwhile, I already provided my solution: Increase the existing tax until it covers required expenses.

[tk217]

I don't get the purpose of this.

How much money is raised by the gasoline tax? And is that not enough to fund roads?

http://jonathanpelto.com/2013/07/03/...tion-programs/

The worst thing is when it isn't used for roads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Trust_Fund

From 2008 to 2010, Congress authorized the transfer of $35 billion from the General Fund of the U.S. Treasury to keep the trust fund solvent.[7]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected in January 2012 that the fund's Highway Account will become insolvent during 2013, and the Mass Transit Account insolvent in 2014. CBO said that although vehicles will travel more miles in the future (therefore consuming more taxable fuel), rising fuel efficiency standards and congressional refusal to increase the fuel tax or tie it to the rate of inflation means that the fund receives less money. CBO's insolvency projection assumed that Congress will not increase transportation spending beyond inflation-adjusted 2012 levels.[7]

In 2013, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce supported raising the federal gasoline tax to keep the fund solvent.[8]

And if we had more "mass transit" we would have an even more insolvent fund - ironic huh? It is not in the interest of autmotive lobbyists, oil trusts, and even "the government" to develop mass transit.

[ScubaStevo]

How about we simply cut "global warming" """""research"""""" and divert the funding to infrastructure?

[tk217]

How about we simply cut "global warming" """""research"""""" and divert the funding to infrastructure?

Because we don't spend 35 billion a year on global warming research?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...ange-hysteria/

In fact - we haven't even spent 35 billion in the 20 years.

[nutsy54]

People are already doing this, they just don't realize it. What do you think that 'geico snapshot' insurance gizmo is for

Wut? How do people not realize they requested, received, then installed monitoring equipment in their car?

Then again - you're pretending that a mandatory government program is the same as a few companies making a voluntary offer...

[ScubaStevo]

Because we don't spend 35 billion a year on global warming research?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...ange-hysteria/

In fact - we haven't even spent 35 billion in the 20 years.

Yes, you are right. And you almost got the point of what I was saying. Take all of the slush, waste, fraud, and corruption and divert that funding to infrastructure. There is literally no reason for a tax increase.

EDIT: LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! We may not have spent $35,000,000,000, but we spent nearly $10,000,000,000 in 2010

"According to the GAO, annual federal climate spending has increased from $4.6 billion in 2003 to $8.8 billion in 2010,"

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!