Havoc?

[bodybuilder45]

ok, im not too familiar with any prohormones or steroids but does anybody know what this is?

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

is this the compound that dsade mentioned at AM? seems new to me so i was wondering if anyone had any info. if its worth it, i might just have to add to my "rainy day" stash for the years after my natural competiton days are over

[dsade]

The very one.

[bodybuilder45]

Originally Posted by dsade

The very one.

bump... care to share any more info?

[dsade]

Writeup is coming. There is another thread here that discusses the compound in more detail

I can PM you some subjective info, and there are some logs being run - including lipid/liver profiles.

[DefensorFortis]

When will the product be available for use? Does NP have it already?

[bodybuilder45]

Originally Posted by DefensorFortis

When will the product be available for use? Does NP have it already?

no, nutra's sister site carries it.

thanks for the info dsade

[Kohen_Gadol]

Originally Posted by dsade

Writeup is coming. There is another thread here that discusses the compound in more detail

I can PM you some subjective info, and there are some logs being run - including lipid/liver profiles.

See my previous posts. I respect DSADE a lot and think he is very bright. I am confident the label will of course thus have a big warning on it because this is a sulfur containing compound and people allergic to sulfur can't use this stuff.

This has an A:A ratio of about 7.5 and it is probably very good for dry, lean gains (not a super mass builder but you will keep what you get). No idea what a 'Q ratio of 12' means though DSADE.

If you have no issues with sulfur, this is a much cleaner compound than SD, PP, or anything IDS has put their fingers into.

It is sold in Japan under the brand name "Protabol"....see other thread.

BK

[DefensorFortis]

Originally Posted by bodybuilder45

no, nutra's sister site carries it.

thanks for the info dsade

Found it and other good stuff too. Thanks for the info.

*reps*

[BillyB]

Originally Posted by bodybuilder45

ok, im not too familiar with any prohormones or steroids but does anybody know what this is?

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

is this the compound that dsade mentioned at AM? seems new to me so i was wondering if anyone had any info. if its worth it, i might just have to add to my "rainy day" stash for the years after my natural competiton days are over

It is Epitiostanol with methyl group attached.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=961037

[Outside backer]

legal??

[BillyB]

2a,3a-Epithio-5a-androstan-17b-ol = Not legal

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol = playing with fire, gonna buy a bottle or two

[Madevilz]

Originally Posted by bodybuilder45

no, nutra's sister site carries it.

thanks for the info dsade

but is it ran by the same persons and from the same warehouse?

[DefensorFortis]

Originally Posted by Madevilz

but is it ran by the same persons and from the same warehouse?

Same wharehouse, but not sure if it is run by the same person.

[Nathan1]

Sulfur?

Is that what I smell?

Whatever it is, this product WREAKS!!

[Heavy_Lifter85]

Originally Posted by Kohen_Gadol

I am confident the label will of course thus have a big warning on it because this is a sulfur containing compound and people allergic to sulfur can't use this stuff.

Oh, so I guess they couldn't have any Cysteine or Methionine in their bodies either, huh? Allergic reactions to a prohormone would probably be the least of their worries.

(I'm writing a research paper about estrogen at 1:00 AM, so I'm a bit bitchy right now - if there is some obvious reason why a sulfur containing PH would cause an allergic reaction when an amino acid would not, please explain)

[Robboe]

I just saw a similar thread on a UK board yesterday. I think this is something (or very similar to) that we were considering releasing before we stopped selling PH.

[Skigazzi]

Originally Posted by BillyB

2a,3a-Epithio-5a-androstan-17b-ol = Not legal

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

Study where it was used to treat breast cancer, very antiestrgoenic, im guessing this to be a fantastic cutter?

[Robboe]

Originally Posted by Skigazzi

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

Study where it was used to treat breast cancer, very antiestrgoenic, im guessing this to be a fantastic cutter?

Looks like it. or as Bruce said above (and i trust his opinion on matters such as these), dry, lean gains.

[Kohen_Gadol]

Originally Posted by BillyB

It is Epitiostanol with methyl group attached.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=961037

Mepitiostane? If so...this one goes to Derek W. Cornelius as he thought of this idea YEARS ago.

BK

[Kohen_Gadol]

Originally Posted by Heavy_Lifter85

Oh, so I guess they couldn't have any Cysteine or Methionine in their bodies either, huh? Allergic reactions to a prohormone would probably be the least of their worries.

(I'm writing a research paper about estrogen at 1:00 AM, so I'm a bit bitchy right now - if there is some obvious reason why a sulfur containing PH would cause an allergic reaction when an amino acid would not, please explain)

The same reason a sulfur containing antibiotic would.

Yeah, I'll remember than next time a doc writes me a prescription for Bactrim.

Negged.

BK

[Kohen_Gadol]

Originally Posted by Kohen_Gadol

Mepitiostane? If so...this one goes to Derek W. Cornelius as he thought of this idea YEARS ago.

BK

No, it ain't mepitiostane as that has an ether attachment.


Looking like thiomesterone.

I'm still thinking this is a great cutter - dry gainer as opposed to bulking agent.

The anti-e effects I need to look into more.

BK

[Kohen_Gadol]

Nevermind

[DefensorFortis]

How long does it take for the body prohormone metabolites to be completely excreted? In other word how long before it is no longer detectable on average?

[dsade]

Bruce...thanks for the compliment.

So far, you are right on with the effects...though the mass building should NOT be underestimated. These are the driest gains I have ever had on anything (now at the 1 1/2 weeks mark).

If there is someone you trust willing to evaluate, feel free to PM me and I will send out a bottle.

[DefensorFortis]

Originally Posted by dsade

Bruce...thanks for the compliment.

So far, you are right on with the effects...though the mass building should NOT be underestimated. These are the driest gains I have ever had on anything (now at the 1 1/2 weeks mark).

If there is someone you trust willing to evaluate, feel free to PM me and I will send out a bottle.

Do you have any lbm gain yet? Just curious because I have been waiting for a comp to bring out a PH that was good for dry gains wich would allow the hard cut look.

[DefensorFortis]

Originally Posted by DefensorFortis

How long does it take for the body prohormone metabolites to be completely excreted? In other word how long before it is no longer detectable on average?

Someone please answer my question. *reps if you do*

[dsade]

Hard to tell...bodyfat is down, while total weight is up around 5 pounds.

Given bodycomp changes, I would estimate total LBM gain of around 8 pounds so far.

[DefensorFortis]

Originally Posted by dsade

Hard to tell...bodyfat is down, while total weight is up around 5 pounds.

Given bodycomp changes, I would estimate total LBM gain of around 8 pounds so far.

Sounds like you wouldn't even need to stack this w/ anything else for awsome gains.

[Kohen_Gadol]

Originally Posted by dsade

Bruce...thanks for the compliment.

So far, you are right on with the effects...though the mass building should NOT be underestimated. These are the driest gains I have ever had on anything (now at the 1 1/2 weeks mark).

If there is someone you trust willing to evaluate, feel free to PM me and I will send out a bottle.

This right from the pen of Julius...


Vida page 173 –

Figure D-66

2b-3b-epithio-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyl-5a-androstane.

18% as androgenic and 17% as anabolic (rat assays) as plain methyl-test.




Vida page 174 –

Figure D-70

2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyl-5a-androstane.


91% as androgenic and 1100% as anabolic (rat assays) as plain methyl-test.




Nice find guys. Just watch the sulfur

Oddly, most of the 3-2 mods on sterans including the epithio attachment (and methano and difluoro and epoxy) are junk.

The "azoles" like stanozolol, androisoxazole and furazabol are also "3-2's" and also have very dry, lean effects.

I am more interested in your "post use" E2, TT, BT, GH and IGF-1 numbers than anything else to be honest.

Do not infer anything bad about the above comment - I am just curious.

Must have been a beeyotch to get thiis made.

And please smack anyone whining about the price.

My guess is you'll need 20mg or so per day for this.

That is just a guess.

I obviously am in no position to "endorse" anything like this but I will give DSADE kudos as this is more than likely a whole lot less toxic than SD, DMT, M1T, "methyl-stenbolone" and some of the other "heavy androgens".

Much cleaner

BK

[Heavy_Lifter85]

Originally Posted by Kohen_Gadol

It seems to work by binding to the ER, but not causing signal transduction or muting it. This is very interesting (all three, Havoc, epiotiostanol and mepitiostane work this way). I'd call this a SERM type compound for now...I do want to check more into it though.

BK, you've got to take mitigating factors into consideration before "negging" me!

--------------------

Waller, et al (Ligand Based Identification of Environmental Estrogens, Chem. Res. Toxicol. 1996) describes factors influencing ER binding:

“Steric bulk is not accommodated out of the plane of the A-ring of the steroid or near the 15 and 16 positions of the D-ring.”

“Hydrophobic bulk appears to be most desired in the vicinity of the steroid A-ring.”

These conclusions, derived from 3-D QSAR, seems to suggest that Havoc would have low binding affinity for the ER.

I have full text of this if anyone’s interested.
-------------------------

The first explanation that came to mind was tamoxifen’s activity at the ER: binds effectively, but “tail” displaces Helix 12 (Correct? It has been a while.) and prevents binding of receptor to DNA. Whether or not sulfur can do the same, I cannot say.