Creatine form, which is best?

[William]

While nearly every company produces creatine in a powder, some are rather plain, resembling standard protein powder, others are effervesant (sp?). Now I have begun see more often products like creatine serum and creatine drinks, both liquid based obviously. These products claim (primarily the serum) to avoid the breakdown into creatinine by their suspension method. The powder advocates say no way, creatine isn't stable in water for long. Still another company (at least one) now has come out with a creatine chew. Claiming to be superior to both powders/mixes and serum/liquids.

Anybody got any real take on this stuff? The only creatine supplementation I've done was utilizing EAS RiboForce prior to and EAS SyntheVol after workouts. I've discontinued this as I used the last of these products a few weeks ago and am confused about what to buy now for best results.

Serious comments and helpful advice is appreciated.

William

[Big Cat]

Powder, chews, effervescent its all just as effective if its quality stuff from SKW. However, you'll agree with me only a micronized powder is convenient to use. For one, I'd like to see anyone stack an effervescent with a thick milkshake containing flax oil. That's barf city baby. Same for the chews, why bother tasting this **** or paying extra for flavoring if you don't have too ? Regular powder leaves residue, that's not convenient either. So I'll stick with a quality brand micronized powder.

As for liquid creatine, have you ever see proof that it is stable in liquid ? Its easy to claim, but have you seen proof ? Especially since an independent lab assay on 16 liquid creatine product reavealed that on average they contain less than 5% of the listed amount of creatine, the rest had already gone to waste. Thsi includes the better known brands like MMUSA.

Secondly, think for a brief second here, of the millions you could make with a liquid creatine. You could sell it to every soft drink company in the world and becime a billionaire in no time. Its the only supplement with such extensive research, that has been shown to be perfectly safe repeatedly that can deliver such results. Every company would jump on liquid creatine. That's why SKW, the worlds leading manufacturer has spent a small fortune on tryin to find the how-to of liquid creatine. If then these backwater companies indeed have stable liquid creatine ? Why are they selling it like this, why aren't they cashing ? Simple, they can't make it stable and they can't prove otherwise. Period.

[William]

Muscle Marketing's creatine serum and Biotest's Ribose-C were the liquid products I was referring to. I am wary of both already because of the ridiculous ads and claims made on other products and from the lack of references to their claims. After posting this question I found an article on AST's web site that comments on liquid based creatine products and backs up it's claims with sound reasoning and references.

http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/creat...um_5-22-00.htm

The article makes some great points.

I too agree that micronized is the only way to go, as I couldn't hardly stand to consume the EAS Riboforce (effervesant room temp) creatine mix and then work out and the EAS SyntheVol was like sand on the glass which I had to get with my finger sometimes. I am considering AST's Creatine HSC (this is how I came across the above referrence article) and other such products now. Any further recommendations?

William

[Big Cat]

I found an article on AST's web site that comments on liquid based creatine products and backs up it's claims with sound reasoning and references.

In this case I'll bump it, but be VERY wary of the information you get off AST's website. Over 80% of their Q&A information is twisted to make their stuff look better. I had a discussion with them a while back about their andro Q&A and the lies they were spreading and to date they haven't been able to prove me wrong on a single count. You can check the back and forth of it on the old message boards.

I am considering AST's Creatine HSC (this is how I came across the above referrence article) and other such products now. Any further recommendations?

Yes how about trying a simple proven and true Creapure brand creatine instead of all this fancy **** ?

Peter

[Tim]

I'm just curious: Why do ads for effervescent creatine claim that effervescent creatine won't make you bloated, while regular creatine monohydrate will? I've actually tried effevescent creatine, and I didn't get bloated while experiencing a small increase in strength. However, I have also taken regular creatine and not gotten bloated while increasing my strength significantly -and I have taken regular creatine (from a diffenrent brand) that bloated me but didn't increase my strength. Because of this, it seems to me that there are other factors besides form that determine its quality. I wonder what the explanation for all this could be.

[William]

Big Cat,

A bit of a dilemna is posed by the two factors you presented me with if I attempt to give them equal weight:

(1) Micronized is the way to go
(2) Creapure is the way to go

Maybe I've just not looked at the right products, but it seems that all the "Creapure" branded products are not micronized; conversly, the micronized creatine products are not of the "Creapure" variety.

Is it just as well to look for wording to the effect of "pure" and "HPCL tested" on micronized creatine products?

Examples:

ISS Complete Creatine Power
"100% Pure Creapure™ Creatine Monohydrate"
not a micronized powder

TwinLab Creatine Fuel - Micronized
"Micronized Creatine Monohydrate"
not Creapure branded

MetRx Micronized Creatine
"99% Pure Creatine Monohydrate"
not Creapure branded

AST Micronized Creatine
"Pure HPLC tested and laboratory certified "micronized" creatine monohydrate"
not Creapure branded

It seems to me that all the above are good products. Do you think it is more important to have the Creapure brand or to simply get a high-quality micronized creatine? Or what?

Thanks for your helpful advice.

William

==========
PS - I added this bit after posting this message and then finding another brand of micronized creatine.

Universal Nutrition Micronized Creatine
100% Pure Micronized Creapure™ Creatine Monohydrate
==========

My question(s) above still stand. Is this product from Universal ideal, or do you think they are all good choices?

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by Tim
I'm just curious: Why do ads for effervescent creatine claim that effervescent creatine won't make you bloated, while regular creatine monohydrate will? I've actually tried effevescent creatine, and I didn't get bloated while experiencing a small increase in strength. However, I have also taken regular creatine and not gotten bloated while increasing my strength significantly -and I have taken regular creatine (from a diffenrent brand) that bloated me but didn't increase my strength. Because of this, it seems to me that there are other factors besides form that determine its quality. I wonder what the explanation for all this could be.

There is, you didn't take it right. If the creatine gives you no water retention, it ain't working, period. Its what creatine does when it gets inside a cell.

[Big Cat]

Ok, maybe you just haven't found them. Any label that has SKW on it will do as well, they make creapure. Prolab, Met-rx and so on, I'm sure there are plenty. What's also good to check out, that isn't creapure or SKW is Twinlabs micronized creatine in 1 kg tubs. I've seen very good results with that.

Of the brands you named the Twinlab and met-rx are your safest bet and not too expensive either.

Originally posted by William
ISS Complete Creatine Power
"100% Pure Creapure™ Creatine Monohydrate"
not a micronized powder

Ok, just quoted this to let everyone know this is a bull**** claim. There is no such thing as 100% pure creatine. The best forms are 99.99% pure. If it was 100%, it would be a stable product, and it has repeatedly been shown that creatine is not stable in certain environments.

[lalala]

Especially since an independent lab assay on 16 liquid creatine product reavealed that on average they contain less than 5% of the listed amount of creatine, the rest had already gone to waste

please to provide a URL listing these results.

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by lalala


please to provide a URL listing these results.

Ummm, that'd be hard unless you have access to the NIS database. If you do then use "creatine stability" AND liquid AND assay as your keywords. Perhaps its available somewhere on the web, I haven't tried to locate it yet. If I find it I'll give you a heads up.

[lalala]

What does NIS stand for? I can find many NIS databases on the internet but need to make sure its the correct one that you are speaking of.

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by lalala
What does NIS stand for? I can find many NIS databases on the internet but need to make sure its the correct one that you are speaking of.

Its not on the net, its the national Institute for statistics in brussels.

[lalala]

what about this creatine product?

Kre-Alkalyn

it claims to not break down at all and to deliver its full load of creatine to your blood stream. the thing that irriates me about powdered creatine is the large amounts you have to consume in order to get just a fraction into your muscles.

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by lalala
what about this creatine product?

Kre-Alkalyn

it claims to not break down at all and to deliver its full load of creatine to your blood stream. the thing that irriates me about powdered creatine is the large amounts you have to consume in order to get just a fraction into your muscles.

Ummmm, unless you inject it you'll always have to take the same large doses regardless of the form. Whatever makes you think that it being liquid means you need to take less ? Its just another BS claim. When liquid creatine is finally made, you'll still need to take the same doses. You can put it in your gainer shake to get more in your muscle if you really want.

As for the claims, that's what they all claim though isn't it ? I haven't heard of this brand yet, and if they had stable liquid creatine its unlikely I wouldn't have heard because then they could sell a billion-dollar contract to the coca-cola company. And if that happened, I'd have heard about it by now ...

[lalala]

hehe big cat, you always mention the fact that if they could stabilize creatine in solution they would make millions by putting it in coke. I doubt they would be able to get away with such a thing, the public uproar would be outrageous, especially with all the annectodal guys running around saying creatine gave them renal failure.

the Kre-alkalyn guys claim that by putting the creatine in a base (12 pH) they have substantially diminished the rate at which the creatine breaks down. Dunno, but they have some good science to back it up. At this point i am going to stick with what works, but am really looking for a viable alternative.

[Big Cat]

hehe big cat, you always mention the fact that if they could stabilize creatine in solution they would make millions by putting it in coke. I doubt they would be able to get away with such a thing, the public uproar would be outrageous, especially with all the annectodal guys running around saying creatine gave them renal failure.

The questions are A.What sells ? and B.will the FDA back it. At this point the evidence proving creatine safe on all counts for a very, very long term is far greater than any evidence that proves otherwise. A lot of people are trying to prove creatine is bad for you. But so far all the studies that tried , ended with the conclusion "we did not note any adverse effects, but we feel more research is needed". At the same time studies proving creatine safe for continual 5 years consumption at 30 grams a day are popping up. So maybe Coke wouldn't be the first to jump on the bandwagon, but I assure you Gatorade would be all over it.

the Kre-alkalyn guys claim that by putting the creatine in a base (12 pH) they have substantially diminished the rate at which the creatine breaks down. Dunno, but they have some good science to back it up. At this point i am going to stick with what works, but am really looking for a viable alternative.

Probably true, but two remarks :

1.What's the point ? So it stays somewhat stable for 6 weeks instead of 3. With packing, shipping and handling and the final period of use, by the time you get it home its degraded and useless anyway.
2.You can't avoid acidic conditions, not even in a base because it is a proteinaceous substance and needs stomach acids to break it down. So two possible scenarios. the first is the acid digests it at which point the base has very little use. The second is that the base is so strong that it hold back the acid. The creatine is thus not digested an washed away out of the system.

[John Drake]

Concerning Kre-Alkalyn...

We were the first U.S. company to offer it a couple of years ago.

It is very much legit and the feedback is outstanding from those who suffer from cramps/bloating with regular creatine.

The inventor holds a Patent on this compound, it is NOT hype or pseudo-science. I have personally used it for the past couple of years and will never use regular creatine again, myself.

Just my 2 cents.

[aspiringbber16]

While nearly every company produces creatine in a powder, some are rather plain, resembling standard protein powder, others are effervesant (sp?). Now I have begun see more often products like creatine serum and creatine drinks, both liquid based obviously. These products claim (primarily the serum) to avoid the breakdown into creatinine by their suspension method. The powder advocates say no way, creatine isn't stable in water for long. Still another company (at least one) now has come out with a creatine chew. Claiming to be superior to both powders/mixes and serum/liquids.

Anybody got any real take on this stuff? The only creatine supplementation I've done was utilizing EAS RiboForce prior to and EAS SyntheVol after workouts. I've discontinued this as I used the last of these products a few weeks ago and am confused about what to buy now for best results.

Serious comments and helpful advice is appreciated.

William

hey william. i took kre-alkalyn for several months. i experienced good gains. i went up about 50 pounds on bench press. I myself am looking for something else to take. but kre-alkalyn is (supposidely) the best creatine for not bloating and keeping a lean look. it keeps the creatine from going into its useless state of creatinine, which about 90 of powders turn into.it has less grams but is equivalent to many more grams of regular monohydrate. it cuts down on the stress on your liver too. its a good product, try it

[aspiringbber16]

The questions are A.What sells ? and B.will the FDA back it. At this point the evidence proving creatine safe on all counts for a very, very long term is far greater than any evidence that proves otherwise. A lot of people are trying to prove creatine is bad for you. But so far all the studies that tried , ended with the conclusion "we did not note any adverse effects, but we feel more research is needed". At the same time studies proving creatine safe for continual 5 years consumption at 30 grams a day are popping up. So maybe Coke wouldn't be the first to jump on the bandwagon, but I assure you Gatorade would be all over it.



Probably true, but two remarks :

1.What's the point ? So it stays somewhat stable for 6 weeks instead of 3. With packing, shipping and handling and the final period of use, by the time you get it home its degraded and useless anyway.
2.You can't avoid acidic conditions, not even in a base because it is a proteinaceous substance and needs stomach acids to break it down. So two possible scenarios. the first is the acid digests it at which point the base has very little use. The second is that the base is so strong that it hold back the acid. The creatine is thus not digested an washed away out of the system.

it stays stable once it hits your blood stream. the arent try to say it wont last in the package as long. its good stuff, it did wonders for my body and all around strength

[johnny1979]

to the users of Kre-Alkalyn:
Is it necessary to take your dose pre-workout?
I workout 6 days a week at 12pm, can i take my Kre-alkalyn at 6pm everyday? Will it be stored (for 18+ hours) in my muscles to be used the following day? Will it be stored for up to 24 hours?
When you take your dose right before your workout, do you get the effects from that dose, or from the dose you took 24 hours before?

If 1g Kre-alkalyn = 10g Creatine Monohydrate, then why do you have to take 2g daily instead of 0.5g daily?



And how would you compare it to CEE? (please only respond if you have actually used Kre-alkalyn AND CEE)

[1MoreRepUFool]

to the users of Kre-Alkalyn:
Is it necessary to take your dose pre-workout?
I workout 6 days a week at 12pm, can i take my Kre-alkalyn at 6pm everyday? Will it be stored (for 18+ hours) in my muscles to be used the following day? Will it be stored for up to 24 hours?
When you take your dose right before your workout, do you get the effects from that dose, or from the dose you took 24 hours before?

If 1g Kre-alkalyn = 10g Creatine Monohydrate, then why do you have to take 2g daily instead of 0.5g daily?



And how would you compare it to CEE? (please only respond if you have actually used Kre-alkalyn AND CEE)

Take it pre workout

[KreAlkalynRox]

to the users of Kre-Alkalyn:
Is it necessary to take your dose pre-workout?
I workout 6 days a week at 12pm, can i take my Kre-alkalyn at 6pm everyday? Will it be stored (for 18+ hours) in my muscles to be used the following day? Will it be stored for up to 24 hours?
When you take your dose right before your workout, do you get the effects from that dose, or from the dose you took 24 hours before?

If 1g Kre-alkalyn = 10g Creatine Monohydrate, then why do you have to take 2g daily instead of 0.5g daily?



And how would you compare it to CEE? (please only respond if you have actually used Kre-alkalyn AND CEE)

Hi. I'm actually using Kre Alkalyn now, its great. So are all my friends. All of us love it. Some studies suggest that it doesn't matter when you take creatine. But I think Kre Alkalyn might be different so i recomend just following the directions.

Just take it like an hour before your workout, so if you lift at 12 take it at 11.

Also I dont know which company's creatine youre using. But im using All American EFX and it says to take 750 mg pre workout and 750 mg post workout for a total of 1.5 grams

[CMSI]

I'm really curious about this Kre Alkalyn stuff. Anyone else taking this want to chime in?

[mjb108]

Go with creatine monohydrate

[DtPDjS47]

Kre-Alkalyn is insane. Best creatine on the market. And yes creatine can be stable in liquids. But only through Kre-Alkalyn, the only pH buffered creatine with a pH above 12. Which btw is patented. Which is why no other company can have a creatine as good as Kre-Alkalyn.

The problem with regular creatines is that they ALL convert to creatinine in liquids because of their low pH level.

[TMac26]

The problem with regular creatines is that they ALL convert to creatinine in liquids because of their low pH level.

Have a legit source to site there brah?



I'm 100% positive you are spouting off broscience. In10City has posted numerous upon numerous legit studies that says creatine is perfectly stable in solution.

[DtPDjS47]

Have a legit source to site there brah?



I'm 100% positive you are spouting off broscience. In10City has posted numerous upon numerous legit studies that says creatine is perfectly stable in solution.

I'm going based on what's on kre-alkalyn.net and .com

according to them creatine breaks down extremely fast in liquids. and i'm pretty sure that's the whole reason they recieved a patent

[BringnIt]

I'm going based on what's on kre-alkalyn.net and .com

according to them creatine breaks down extremely fast in liquids. and i'm pretty sure that's the whole reason they recieved a patent

Patents do not evaluate efficacy.