Beta-Alanine Dosage???

[DaveGabe24]

What about ba competition with taurine since they use hte same pathway int othe cell? Would dosing multiple times per day lead to a greater chance of taurine deficiency? I think the 1.6x3 dosing scheme shoudl suffice but everyone's different so experiment. Mixing in a protein powder is a good idea for convenience but has some drawbacks. If the dose of ba causes to much prickling sensation not much you can really do about it. Like others said it's tasteless so just mix in water whenever you need.

You can get 300g of BA at BAC for $12.50 and they have some other goodies too.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=209

This should clear up any theories you've heard about Taurine and BA negations.

[DaveGabe24]

Do you really believe there would be a noticeable difference between IntraXcell and bulk beta-alanine because of the additional ingredients?

I do believe so yes, otherwise much like you I'd be suggesting bulk BA to everyone and their sister

Research shows that Carnosine can boost vitamin E's antioxidant abilities and E can boost carnosine concentrations, simply put there is synergy between the two. NAC is contained in IntraXCell because it increases glutathione levels inside the cell,which is a power antioxidant that fights cellular fatigue. Alpha-Lipoc-Acid was added, because its a highly versatile antioxidant that has shown to have the ability to boost other antioxidants like Vitamin E and Glutathione.

Recently there has been some research showing that oxidative stress(free radicals) can contribute to cellular fatigue by directly interfering with various aspects of the muscular contraction process. There is also research that is showing that free radicals MAY contribute to DOMS.

So I can appreciate the extras working synergistically as antioxidants to reduce these free radicals, in turn reducing cellular fatigue/DOMS. Plus you obviously get the BA benefits which we are all beginning to know and love.

-Dave

[dwm230000]

I do believe so yes, otherwise much like you I'd be suggesting bulk BA to everyone and their sister

Research shows that Carnosine can boost vitamin E's antioxidant abilities and E can boost carnosine concentrations, simply put there is synergy between the two. NAC is contained in IntraXCell because it increases glutathione levels inside the cell,which is a power antioxidant that fights cellular fatigue. Alpha-Lipoc-Acid was added, because its a highly versatile antioxidant that has shown to have the ability to boost other antioxidants like Vitamin E and Glutathione.

Recently there has been some research showing that oxidative stress(free radicals) can contribute to cellular fatigue by directly interfering with various aspects of the muscular contraction process. There is also research that is showing that free radicals MAY contribute to DOMS.

So I can appreciate the extras working synergistically as antioxidants to reduce these free radicals, in turn reducing cellular fatigue/DOMS. Plus you obviously get the BA benefits which we are all beginning to know and love.

-Dave

Amount Per Serving:

Vitamin E 30IU 100%
2XCell Blend: 4,202mg
(Beta-Alanine (4g), N-Acetyl L-Cysteine, Alpha-Lipoic Acid)

You might have an argument if the doses of the additional ingredients weren't an absolute joke. There is a 202mg prop blend of NAC and ALA, and 30IU of Vitamin E. Come on. I have seen multivitamins with higher doses of those ingredients per serving. They are nothing more than filler ingredients added in so that people might actually believe that IntraXcell is more than just bulk beta-alanine. Even if the ingredients were more than fillers, they come nowhere close to justifying the difference in price between bulk BA and IntraXcell.

[factotum]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=209

This should clear up any theories you've heard about Taurine and BA negations.

Wow, that answers nothing, no studies posted and it only concludes no increase in taurine in urine. But it's still possible there's competition in muscle.

: Amino Acids. 2006 May;30(3):279-89. Epub 2006 Mar 24. Links
The absorption of orally supplied beta-alanine and its effect on muscle carnosine synthesis in human vastus lateralis.
Harris RC, Tallon MJ, Dunnett M, Boobis L, Coakley J, Kim HJ, Fallowfield JL, Hill CA, Sale C, Wise JA.
School of Sports, Exercise and Health Sciences, University College Chichester, West Sussex, Chichester, UK. r.harris@ucc.ac.uk

Beta-alanine in blood-plasma when administered as A) histidine dipeptides (equivalent to 40 mg . kg(-1) bwt of beta-alanine) in chicken broth, or B) 10, C) 20 and D) 40 mg . kg(-1) bwt beta-alanine (CarnoSyn, NAI, USA), peaked at 428 +/- SE 66, 47 +/- 13, 374 +/- 68 and 833 +/- 43 microM. Concentrations regained baseline at 2 h. Carnosine was not detected in plasma with A) although traces of this and anserine were found in urine. Loss of beta-alanine in urine with B) to D) was <5%. Plasma taurine was increased by beta-alanine ingestion but this did not result in any increased loss via urine. Pharmacodynamics were further investigated with 3 x B) per day given for 15 d. Dietary supplementation with I) 3.2 and II) 6.4 g . d(-1) beta-alanine (as multiple doses of 400 or 800 mg) or III) L-carnosine (isomolar to II) for 4 w resulted in significant increases in muscle carnosine estimated at 42.1, 64.2 and 65.8%.

Why would plasma taurine levels increase if there isn't some degree of competition?

1: Amino Acids. 2006 Apr 20; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Decreases in taurine levels induced by beta-alanine treatment did not affect the susceptibility of tissues to lipid peroxidation.
Parildar-Karpuzoglu H, Dogru-Abbasoglu S, Balkan J, Aykac-Toker G, Uysal M.
Department of Biochemistry, Istanbul Faculty of Medicine, Istanbul University, Capa, Istanbul, Turkey.

We aimed to investigate the effect of decreased taurine levels on endogenous and induced lipid peroxide levels in liver, brain, heart and erythrocytes as well as prooxidant and antioxidant balance in the liver of rats administered beta-alanine (3%, w/v) in drinking water for 1 month to decrease taurine levels of tissues. This treatment caused significant decreases in taurine levels of liver (86%), brain (36%) and heart (15%). We found that endogenous and ascorbic acid-, NADPH- and cumene hydroperoxide-induced malondialdehyde (MDA) levels did not change in the liver, brain and heart homogenates following beta-alanine treatment. Also, H(2)O(2)-induced MDA levels remained unchanged in erythrocytes. In addition, we did not observe any changes in levels of MDA, diene conjugates, glutathione, alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid and the activities of superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase and glutathione transferase in the liver. According to this, buffering or sequestering capacity of tissues to exogenous stimuli was not influenced by reduced taurine levels in tissues of rats.

PMID: 16622601 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Now, how big of an issue this competition is and depletion in subsequent tissues is open to debate. But to flippantly dismiss it when there exists contradictory info is ridiculuous.

I also agree with dwm230000 that the inclusion of nac and rala are in amounts too little to be of much benefit. You could acheieve equal results just supplementing with beta-alanine. This isn't condemnation of the product, it is still effective but not significantly more than just ba.

[OxygeniX]

Wow, that answers nothing, no studies posted and it only concludes no increase in taurine in urine. But it's still possible there's competition in muscle.



Why would plasma taurine levels increase if there isn't some degree of competition?



Now, how big of an issue this competition is and depletion in subsequent tissues is open to debate. But to flippantly dismiss it when there exists contradictory info is ridiculuous.

I also agree with dwm230000 that the inclusion of nac and rala are in amounts too little to be of much benefit. You could acheieve equal results just supplementing with beta-alanine. This isn't condemnation of the product, it is still effective but not significantly more than just ba.

Yes Taurine increases in plasma following supplementation but very little.

Based on urinary losses in the Harris / Tallon et al paper above you get a max 2 fold increase above baseline following 2.8g of beta-alanine. This accounts for a loss of about 800ul in urine, which in real terms is about 20mg of taurine a day.

HARDLY AN ISSUE AS MOST MILK SOURCES WILL DELIVER MUCH MORE THAN THIS IN a typical serving.

Measurements of cardiac specific troponin and full blood panel prove no negative results over the short term.

DOC T

[DaveGabe24]

bump for Wanderlei's reply....

[OxygeniX]

bump for Wanderlei's reply....

yep BUMP BUMP BUMP......Obviously not the REAL Wanderlei he's been KO'ed

[DaveGabe24]

yep BUMP BUMP BUMP......Obviously not the REAL Wanderlei he's been KO'ed

What a shame

-Dave