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  1. #31
    Aaron watchandsee23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    three things that will lower your time is
    1. Working on your take offs ( in the blocks, how long to run with your head/ upper body down ect.)/ working on your form.
    2. Doing squats/ calf raises ( Obviously )
    3. Doing arm/shoulder workouts ( your arms can only move as fast as your legs, and vice versa... if your arms slow down, so do your legs).

    i ran a 4.43 my senior year in high school, and ran a 10.8 100 meter.
    I would take deadlift over calf raises any day to improve speed, So will 99.998% of athletes on here....
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  2. #32
    Registered User deron2007's Avatar
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    a ebook guy, if u just show some just a little something from the ebook that is not complete crap i will buy 2 of them LOL
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  3. #33
    Registered User Epictetus  IV's Avatar
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    Isn't advertising your product not allowed on here????
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  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by watchandsee23 View Post
    I would take deadlift over calf raises any day to improve speed, So will 99.998% of athletes on here....
    Agreed. Your calves should get enough work from any plyo's/sprint work as well as weights (to an extent).
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  5. #35
    The Peoples Champ chlorox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Robb_P View Post
    Agreed. Your calves should get enough work from any plyo's/sprint work as well as weights (to an extent).
    well... either take my advice or leave it. I bet however i can beat you in the 40.
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  6. #36
    Strength/Speed Coach Jhawk Fitness's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by rannybo View Post
    Look man I've made nearly $600.00 off my 40 yard dash ebook at $9.99 a pop back in the day and have given it away to more than 50 people and I haven't till this day gotten any kind of negative feedback about my 40 yard dash workout so what you and your girlfriend (Henry Hill) is saying is garbage. I have no beef with you but before you hate what you don't understand try understanding. There are more than one ways to skin a cat and I just so happened to figured it out whether you approve of it or not. So don't waste all of your energy trying to rain on my parade ,when you need to use that same energy to get your 40 yard dash up to par. Hugs and Kisses. Holla!
    You, sir, are a scam artist. You have brought nothing to this board except for unsubstantiated claims about both your speed and your knowledge of speed development unless we count posting links to websites for "all your ebook needs". Like I said earlier, prove you can put down a 4.36 or a 4.38, we'd all love to see it. Just to give you some perspective though let me tell you this. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 during USC's NFL Pro Day while Ohio States Ted Ginn Jr has been timed at 4.35. Are you seriously claiming to be as fast as the two young men who were arguably the fastest collegiate football players in 2005 and 2006? Give me a damn break.......

    You would be lucky to beat these guys;

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/francisco_aaron
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/blue_greg
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/hodge_abdul
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/jackson_dqwell
    Last edited by Jhawk Fitness; 12-10-2006 at 11:19 AM.
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  7. #37
    Aaron watchandsee23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    well... either take my advice or leave it. I bet however i can beat you in the 40.
    What does that have to do with getting faster? The calf raises probalby didn't play 1/8 the role that squatting did in getting you faster....
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  8. #38
    Strength/Speed Coach Jhawk Fitness's Avatar
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    Actually I think that strengthening the calf muscles is more beneficial to sprinting than it is for jumping. I'll explain more later, right now I'm heading out for my own workout....
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  9. #39
    The Peoples Champ chlorox's Avatar
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    Think about it. Your leg extends, you explode down and back with your thigh, while simultaneously using you calf to throw your toes back. Me beating you in the 40 has everything to do with this. Im telling you what i've done to get as fast as i am. Your sitting here telling me it doesnt work, or doesnt play a benifitial role. I do what i know works. Until the day you can beat me in the 40, i dont think you should tell me what works and what doesnt.
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  10. #40
    Registered User Robb_P's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jhawk Fitness View Post
    Actually I think that strengthening the calf muscles is more beneficial to sprinting than it is for jumping. I'll explain more later, right now I'm heading out for my own workout....
    Looking forward to this, this is something that I have always wondered about. So hopefully a good debate can clear things up.
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  11. #41
    Strength/Speed Coach Jhawk Fitness's Avatar
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    Ok, here is my reason for making the statement above. When sprinting, as opposed to jumping, you have a repetitive movement that drives the foot into the ground. Since sprinting is normally done on the balls of the feet with the heel elevated a person with stronger calf muscles will have less of a "rebound" effect as the foot makes ground-contact. Think of it like the suspension on a car. As the foot touches down the weight of the body is going to drive the heel downwards. A person with weak calves is going to have more heel drop than a person who has stronger calves (relatively speaking). This will lead to not only a slower stride-rate (since the foot will have a greater distance to "rebound") but also a shorter stride as well since the foot will dorsiflex instead of staying rigid which will cause the body to drop instead of allowing the person to efficiently "run tall". That is my thought on the subject. That said, the calves are still only a stabilizing muscle in the movement and not the "engine" behind it so one should still focus more time on developing the other larger muscle groups used for running.

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  12. #42
    Aaron watchandsee23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    Think about it. Your leg extends, you explode down and back with your thigh, while simultaneously using you calf to throw your toes back. Me beating you in the 40 has everything to do with this. Im telling you what i've done to get as fast as i am. Your sitting here telling me it doesnt work, or doesnt play a benifitial role. I do what i know works. Until the day you can beat me in the 40, i dont think you should tell me what works and what doesnt.
    Ok everyone is different and you could have better genetics and could have lifted long or matured faster. There are numerous factors in speed. Just b/c it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone. You can be the fastest guy in the world doesn't mean that you know anything and everyone about speed training. how many trainers do you think run faster then the sprinter they are training? Dude you probably don't know as much as you think on the subject of speed training.....
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by Jhawk Fitness View Post
    Parachute running is more effective for building speed endurance.

    Jhawk,

    Could you explain a little more about that....what is the difference?
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  14. #44
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    Thumbs up Trick to the 40

    I didn't see it at all but I do have one trick to the 40 yard dash.
    Along with getting off the block and normal sprints. And then Practice 50 yard sprints. I know you might think well I only want to run 4o yards.
    Here is the sense in it. Alot of people have a problem have a problem of slowing down right before they get to the 40 yards. When you run your 40s mark 50 yards with maybe a small flag pole or a cone. Have the person timing you sit at the 40 and keep your focus on the marker that you have set up at the 50 and run your tail off to get to that point. You must force yourself to have tunnel vision so the person timing you doesn't distract you. I hope this help you out.

    P.S. Always keep the reciever in front of you.
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  15. #45
    The Peoples Champ chlorox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by watchandsee23 View Post
    Ok everyone is different and you could have better genetics and could have lifted long or matured faster. There are numerous factors in speed. Just b/c it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone. You can be the fastest guy in the world doesn't mean that you know anything and everyone about speed training. how many trainers do you think run faster then the sprinter they are training? Dude you probably don't know as much as you think on the subject of speed training.....
    You have no idea who i am. Personally, i dont care what you think. I am a track coach. I've been teaching what i know for about 6 years. This doesnt account for the years i have ran in highschool, and at college. All the while constanly gaining knowledge from my past trainers. Once again, i dont think you are in any positition to make any assumption about me, or what i know. I know more about speed training than you probubly know about tech math. Sure good genetics helps, and is an important factor. Some people were not born to run. (Im assuming that's you). But for the others, there are things that can be done do improve your sprinting capabilities. I gave a list of simple things (Not even hitting on the subject of "speed training") , that would better you as a sprinter, in terms of lowering your overall 40 time. For simplicitys sake, i completely disregarded the "speed training" you are referring to. "Speed training" can be a whole different side to sprinting. I believe the "speed training" you are referring to, deals with your agility, quickness, and fast twitch muscle fibers. I simply gave a short list of things that would lower a persons 40 time. If this person asked to lower his time from a 4.6 to 4.3, my answer would have been far different. I know more speed training drills than you can probubly count to.
    Last edited by chlorox; 12-11-2006 at 04:58 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Jhawk Fitness View Post
    Ok, here is my reason for making the statement above. When sprinting, as opposed to jumping, you have a repetitive movement that drives the foot into the ground. Since sprinting is normally done on the balls of the feet with the heel elevated a person with stronger calf muscles will have less of a "rebound" effect as the foot makes ground-contact. Think of it like the suspension on a car. As the foot touches down the weight of the body is going to drive the heel downwards. A person with weak calves is going to have more heel drop than a person who has stronger calves (relatively speaking). This will lead to not only a slower stride-rate (since the foot will have a greater distance to "rebound") but also a shorter stride as well since the foot will dorsiflex instead of staying rigid which will cause the body to drop instead of allowing the person to efficiently "run tall". That is my thought on the subject. That said, the calves are still only a stabilizing muscle in the movement and not the "engine" behind it so one should still focus more time on developing the other larger muscle groups used for running.

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    Good post, this has got me thinking.

    My view


    a person with stronger calf muscles will have less of a "rebound" effect as the foot makes ground-contact....A person with weak calves is going to have more heel drop than a person who has stronger calves (relatively speaking). This will lead to not only a slower stride-rate (since the foot will have a greater distance to "rebound")

    Will this neccessarily lead to a slower stride rate? I would say that this depends on a certain factor:

    The amount of "stiffness" the foot can produce on ground contact.

    Basically a "stiffer" foot will be more elastic. This means that more energy will be returned from the track. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction - so this extra energy can be utilised to "run tall".

    So although there may be a a drop in the heels as the foot makes contact with the ground, if this can be returned correctly, it should make no difference.

    What determines the amount of stiffness the foot/lower leg complex can exhibit?

    It is thought a long achilles tendon is the most important factor involved in this. However the achilles tendon must be strong enough to return the force otherwise it is useless!

    The neuromuscular system is also considered very important.

    Your calf muscles are also important. However they are not as important as the above 2 (particularly the tendon as tendons are better at reutilising energy than muscles). Additionally, while the muscle obviously has to be strong to be "stiff", it is more important that the CNS is trained for this - rather than the muscle itself.

    Conclusion

    I feel, to quote myself, "Your calves should get enough work from any plyo's/sprint work as well as weights (to an extent)."

    Comments? I am busy right now but hopefully I can answer any comments during the weekend.
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    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    You have no idea who i am. Personally, i dont care what you think. I am a track coach. I've been teaching what i know for about 6 years. This doesnt account for the years i have ran in highschool, and at college. All the while constanly gaining knowledge from my past trainers. Once again, i dont think you are in any positition to make any assumption about me, or what i know. I know more about speed training than you probubly know about tech math. Sure good genetics helps, and is an important factor. Some people were not born to run. (Im assuming that's you). But for the others, there are things that can be done do improve your sprinting capabilities. I gave a list of simple things (Not even hitting on the subject of "speed training") , that would better you as a sprinter, in terms of lowering your overall 40 time. For simplicitys sake, i completely disregarded the "speed training" you are referring to. "Speed training" can be a whole different side to sprinting. I believe the "speed training" you are referring to, deals with your agility, quickness, and fast twitch muscle fibers. I simply gave a short list of things that would lower a persons 40 time. If this person asked to lower his time from a 4.6 to 4.3, my answer would have been far different. I know more speed training drills than you can probubly count to.
    I know plenty of dumbass track coaches and some good ones. I don't think you are in any position to make any assumptions either just becasue you are a "track coach." FYI, I have almost all honors classes and maintain a 3.8 GPA...You have never seen me so how can you tell me I am not born to run. That seemed like a dumbass assumption on your part. Since you didn't get this by the title, this thread is about the 40 yard dash when I said speed training it has to do with straight line speed. Not Agility and Quickness, which are related but different...Why would you train to different to lower a forty for someone that was different. Either way you want to increase strength and explosiveness. Any coach that recommends calf raises over deadlifting sounds like they need to read some more....
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    Originally Posted by watchandsee23 View Post
    this thread is about the 40 yard dash when I said speed training it has to do with straight line speed. Not Agility and Quickness,
    Your an idiot
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    Originally Posted by watchandsee23 View Post
    FYI, I have almost all honors classes and maintain a 3.8 GPA...
    great. want a cookie?


    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    Your an idiot

    i 2nd that....spped quickness and agility are part of one big family
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    there is actually a difference between linear and lateral speed, and while there might be some carry over effect, but you do train them both differently


    Originally Posted by KPhu92 View Post
    great. want a cookie?





    i 2nd that....spped quickness and agility are part of one big family
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    Not to mention 40 yards is all about your quickness from the start. When i ran track our coach had us pull tires. Not saying its the best thing , but it definately worked for me. try it out.
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    Aaron watchandsee23's Avatar
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    That's accelaration when coming out of the blocks. when in the forty do you need lateral speed(agility) this thread is about THE 40 YARD DASH....
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    Originally Posted by KPhu92 View Post
    great. want a cookie?





    i 2nd that....spped quickness and agility are part of one big family
    I said they were related, idiot. Read the post...
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    Originally Posted by watchandsee23 View Post
    That's accelaration when coming out of the blocks. when in the forty do you need lateral speed(agility) this thread is about THE 40 YARD DASH....
    No wonder your time is horrible. You run the 40 laterally. Heres another tip for you. Try running forward.
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    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    No wonder your time is horrible. You run the 40 laterally. Heres another tip for you. Try running forward.
    i second that...there is no reason u should ever run laterally
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    Originally Posted by chlorox View Post
    "Speed training" can be a whole different side to sprinting. I believe the "speed training" you are referring to, deals with your agility, quickness, and fast twitch muscle fibers.
    Try to keep up. This is what you said. How could you misunderstand me talking about speed training when the topic of the thread is "40 yard dash workouts" Read the part where YOU brought up lateral speed which is agility....That was a question asking when do you need lateral speed. I don't see how it took you 6 years to teach all that you it seems like it would be a lot shorter amount of time. KHpu, ok you are not even reading the whole thread just the parts that chloroz quotes and you've been dick riding him for the last couple of posts....
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    oh so i guess agreeing with ppl is now considered dick riding...
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    Originally Posted by watchandsee23 View Post
    Try to keep up. This is what you said. How could you misunderstand me talking about speed training when the topic of the thread is "40 yard dash workouts" Read the part where YOU brought up lateral speed which is agility....That was a question asking when do you need lateral speed. I don't see how it took you 6 years to teach all that you it seems like it would be a lot shorter amount of time. KHpu, ok you are not even reading the whole thread just the parts that chloroz quotes and you've been dick riding him for the last couple of posts....
    Im sure he isnt the only one to agree with me. You just continue to do what you do best. Run sideways, and ask people what to do about your ****ty 40 time. Then when they give you answers, tell them they dont know anything about speed training.

    a·gil·i·ty –noun
    1. the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness

    Where does it say anything about lateral speed?? Heres another tip for you.. The 40 requires you to move quickly, and in this case, be "agile"

    Dumbass.
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    When I think of agility I think of cone drills and moving side to side quickly. Where did I say anything about moving sideways during a forty dumbass. Another one of your stupid assumptions. All I said is that deadlift is better then calf raises and you got all mad b/c I corrected you with a true statement. Then got all offensive and said "I could beat you in 40." I'm hoping you could beat me in a forty if you have been training twice as long as me....
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    Okay. You go dead lift until your dead for all i care, because no amount of dead lift, or calf raises for this matter, will ever make you better. You were born slow. Physically, and mentally.
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