Squat on the Smith Machine

[Energizer1000]

During my workout yesterday, I noticed a personal trainer teaching a newbie how to squat on the smith machine. He instructed the guy to position his feet almost a foot away from the perpendicular point away from the bar. This means that the squatter would be literally leaning backwards and pushing the bar backwards going up.

According to the PT, this would avoid injuires at the lower back and would keep your back straight as you go down.

I usually position my feet right underneath the bar and just go down. Of course, I try to be as straight as possible.

Was just wondering if moving your feet forward instead of positioning it under the bar is the right way to go.

[EMISGOD]

I put mine somewhat forward of the bar. I don't find it comfortable otherwise.

[justtryn]

This is a fairly common way of squatting with the Smith Machine. I don't know about the back injury issue, but by placing your feet farther forward it does bring your hamstrings more into play - the farther out, the more they are recruited.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by Energizer1000

He instructed the guy to position his feet almost a foot away from the perpendicular point away from the bar. This means that the squatter would be literally leaning backwards and pushing the bar backwards going up.

This sounds dangerous to me. In fact, I can hardly picture someone squating with feet 1ft in front of bar. You've got to find the "sweet spot", and that will differ slightly for each person, but should be relatively close.

If you're forced within a fixed plane, you've got to be at a pivotal point for both, taking the weight down safely, and pushing it back up. Depending on my width of stance, my toes might be as much as 4"-5" out front of the guide bars. But a difference of maybe only 2" (let's say 6"-7" total) would be a recipe for disaster. And I'm talking about a verticle smith. If it were angled, your description would sound more dangerous to me.

[Hibiscus09]

On a un-angled Smith, feet forward and shoulder width apart, back vertical -- no leaning back.

Here -- this page shows the two different Smith's. I've never used an angled Smith, but it makes sense you would use the form each of these are using on the respective machines.

http://www.criticalbench.com/exercis...ine-squats.htm

Since I've only used a vertical Smith, I can only speak as to that form and she is doing it correctly.

[justtryn]

Originally Posted by dbx

This sounds dangerous to me. In fact, I can hardly picture someone squating with feet 1ft in front of bar. You've got to find the "sweet spot", and that will differ slightly for each person, but should be relatively close.

If you're forced within a fixed plane, you've got to be at a pivotal point for both, taking the weight down safely, and pushing it back up. Depending on my width of stance, my toes might be as much as 4"-5" out front of the guide bars. But a difference of maybe only 2" (let's say 6"-7" total) would be a recipe for disaster. And I'm talking about a verticle smith. If it were angled, your description would sound more dangerous to me.

When I was still using the Smith Machine for Squats, I regularly moved my legs out in front of the weight bar... as much as 18" I wish I could remember where I'd read about the Smith squats... it gave percentages as to how much your quads vs hammies are involved. I'd first seen/heard it suggested by a crusty old PT at the gym I used to go to... then read it in the article a couple of weeks later. From the pictures posted by Hibby, the girl's feet look to be planted 8-12" ahead of the bar.

[Mr. Someday]

Smith machine or free weights....you should be squatting (at least when going heavy) in the same exact manner.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by justtryn

When I was still using the Smith Machine for Squats, I regularly moved my legs out in front of the weight bar... as much as 18" I wish I could remember where I'd read about the Smith squats... it gave percentages as to how much your quads vs hammies are involved. I'd first seen/heard it suggested by a crusty old PT at the gym I used to go to... then read it in the article a couple of weeks later. From the pictures posted by Hibby, the girl's feet look to be planted 8-12" ahead of the bar.

I agree that it looks like her feet are out that far. You know what's bizarre? It looks to me like her smith is angled (I can't be positive) and she is facing the opposite direction of the guy in the video who is using what looks obvious to be an angled smith The reason I noticed this: I watched the guy in the video 1st, and was surprised he was faced the way he was, as I pictured (never seeing someone use an angled one) it would be done facing the other side...where you would have relief while rising on the lift. WTF?

In my case, using a straight, non-counterbalanced smith, I squat the weight without moving my machine. The reason I mention this: Because my machine is not pro, if I were to lean back against it...like I would imagine feet 12" out would cause....I would be sliding my machine all over the place becaue it's not bolted down, and it's not "heavy duty". But I see this as a good thing. I squat the weight just like I would with a regular BB on my back. You can't squat without a smith.... with your feet 12"-18" in front of of where the bar is on your back (when standing up straight) could you?

[Z06vettepilot]

I have two herniated discs in my lower back and this is the only way I squat. Squatting in a rack with an olympic bar creates too much of a forward lean at the bottom of the movement which places a lot of stress on the lower back. I shoulder the bar on a smith machine and then take about a half a step forward. This takes the stress off the lower back by keeping it perpendicular to the ground at all times. I've squatted 600 lbs using a smith machine with no further aggravation to my lower back.

I'm not impying that a smith machine squat should replace a traditional squat, but for someone working around an injury this is a great alternative.

[Hibiscus09]

Hi Mark -- my feet are definitely out in front of me on a Smith Squat and not on a regular squat in the same way. Now, I toss my hips back in a regular squat, so if you look at it that way, my feet are in front of my bottom. I've always done Smith squats with my feet in front of me and Pam (nutritionist/trainer) also showed me to do them that way -- with my back vertical.

Here's Pam:



She looks great! So does Mr. Someday. There seems to be a variety of thoughts on this question. I'll ask Pam when I go see her again (hopefully, I'll remember) whether she does them both ways to emphasize particular muscles more or not.

I do think there is less stress on my lower back with feet out in front of me and more emphasis on the glutes and hamstrings, which is fine with me. I need more help there.

originally posted by dbx
You know what's bizarre? It looks to me like her smith is angled (I can't be positive) and she is facing the opposite direction of the guy in the video who is using what looks obvious to be an angled smith

Who knows for sure? They do. The machine looks mostly straight to me that she is using, but you're correct it's hard to tell from the photo. In any event, my point was that I do it the way she's doing it on a vertical Smith.

[Mr. Someday]

You're too sweet Hibby.

Without arguing the point of more or less hammie involvement, let me state for the record I am a huge proponent of trying to bring as much of the hammie into your squat as possible....hell....it's half your upper leg! But for me, I do this by going below parallel and as far down as my big ass allows me to.

[Hibiscus09]

LOL -- me too, but I bet you're big ass is getting down further than my big ass and with a lot more weight!

To be honest, I prefer regular squats to a Smith machine but have thrown the Smith into the mix at times. On regular squats, I go as low as I can go, which isn't saying much usually with me.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by Mr. Someday

Without arguing the point of more or less hammie involvement, let me state for the record I am a huge proponent of trying to bring as much of the hammie into your squat as possible....hell....it half your upper leg! But for me, I do this by going below parallel and as far down as my big ass allows me to.

No arguing here! This is a good discussion. Again, my smith is a cheap one and is only rated to hold around 350max I think (more than I'll likely ever need lol). But when I have tried as much as 300lbs (not quite to parallel) in the past, if my movement is not perfectly alligned, I will move the entire machine. In fact, when I do calf raises with 250# or higher, I have to be perfectly centered or I will move the machine (rock) coming up. So, there is no way I could lean back that far (12" or more) without compromising safety of the machine moving. But even if it were in a fixed position, I can't clearly picture being able to descend safely with my feet that far out.

[Minotaur]

I use the Smith machine for squats at my company fitness center, but I don't put my feet that far out. I feel like they could slip out from underneath me and I could wind up busting my ass (literally). I saw a woman squatting like that and it really gave me the willies. I try to take the same stance I do when using the freeweight bar in the cage or rack.

[Hibiscus09]

Have you tried it? There is no feet slippage.

dbx, bolt your machine down! You're worrying me!

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Hibiscus09

Have you tried it? There is no feet slippage.

Well, OK... if you say so.

[lukamar]

As today is squat day and i just finished, my smith is all setup so I went and checked what I do. My ancles are normally directly under the bar. I tried with my feet forward but it felt so unnatural that I wasn't going to attempt to unlock the bar and give it a try in case I hurt myself. I may try later with just the bar and no weight.

I'm a firm believer in "if it feels wrong when you lift" you probably will end up hurting yourself.

[Spitfire-1]

Originally Posted by Energizer1000

During my workout yesterday, I noticed a personal trainer teaching a newbie how to squat on the smith machine. He instructed the guy to position his feet almost a foot away from the perpendicular point away from the bar. This means that the squatter would be literally leaning backwards and pushing the bar backwards going up.

According to the PT, this would avoid injuires at the lower back and would keep your back straight as you go down.

I usually position my feet right underneath the bar and just go down. Of course, I try to be as straight as possible.

Was just wondering if moving your feet forward instead of positioning it under the bar is the right way to go.

i only use a smith if i have an injury.

[BlondeAmazon]

Originally Posted by Energizer1000

During my workout yesterday, I noticed a personal trainer teaching a newbie how to squat on the smith machine. He instructed the guy to position his feet almost a foot away from the perpendicular point away from the bar. This means that the squatter would be literally leaning backwards and pushing the bar backwards going up.

According to the PT, this would avoid injuires at the lower back and would keep your back straight as you go down.

I usually position my feet right underneath the bar and just go down. Of course, I try to be as straight as possible.

Was just wondering if moving your feet forward instead of positioning it under the bar is the right way to go.

This is pretty common with the Smith- it pushes the focus on the quads and keeps the pressure off your knees and lower back. The thing you always want to remember is NOT to allow your knees to push up and over your toes. When I train somone on the smith sometimes I will put a bench or a chair behind them to force them to push their rear end back and not straight down-- if that makes sense- So you keep your knees behind your toes and dont curve your spine. Seems to help. With my back issues I had to use the Smith for a couple years to build up the strength before moving over to free squats.

[Fishhawk]

I thought the reason behind placing the feet forward was due to restriction of any back and forward motion of the bar in the Smith machine. When squating with a free bar, the bar is able to move forward or back slightly. If this movement is restricted by the Smith machine more focus will be placed on the lower back.

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by BlondeAmazon

This is pretty common with the Smith- it pushes the focus on the quads and keeps the pressure off your knees and lower back. The thing you always want to remember is NOT to allow your knees to push up and over your toes. When I train somone on the smith sometimes I will put a bench or a chair behind them to force them to push their rear end back and not straight down-- if that makes sense- So you keep your knees behind your toes and dont curve your spine. Seems to help. With my back issues I had to use the Smith for a couple years to build up the strength before moving over to free squats.

The other night I had a chance to workout in the evening and one of the pros was training another person, and it was leg night for them. I am glad I was there because both were using the Smith machine for squats. I watched and learned how to use the Smith machine for squats. I was doing free squats at the time and while the pro did correct my form, he recommended I use the Smith machine until I build up more strength to do free squats properly. When they were done, I did a quick set and it felt great. I will measure how far out my feet were, but I believe it was under 12".

[rideman]

I've had two ruptured disks in my back for almost twenty years for which I've had surgery. I've worked with more than one trainer and they all say your feet should be out forward. I suppose this is less stressful on your back but it's also easier on your knees. Another area I've recently started experiencing some pain in. If your twenty you probably don't care but you'll be forty soon enough and you'll realize you've been working really hard just to ware out your body.

I'm not exactly huge but I always put my feet forward of my shoulders by atleast eight inches probally more.

[4evernatural]

I always put my feet forward a bit on the Smith machine.....just feels much more natural, and I feel it working my quads more.

[dbx]

At least someone used the search button, but lol, this thread is 3yrs old .

[DaddyR]

Meh you may as well just use the hack squat machine.

For squats I do squats. Haven't seen anybody else do free squats in over a month though. After my last squats, a couple of guys came after and I kid you not - they were doing curls in the squat rack! Not a couple of dumb teens either. These guys were reasonably well built and in their late 20s or so. And believe it or not we're talking Gold's Gym! I think I may the only guy who does real, live, actual squats anymore.

[bryantone]

musclemag may 2009 states from parallel to 12 to 15 inches out. depending on which part of the legs you want to target.

[ntrllftr]

The main reason why I use the smith more than conventional squats....

There are IMO a lot more "angles" to hit the legs with the smith squat.
Usually from set to set I will re-position where my feet are. Up front, right below, or somewhere inbetween. I feel that this allows for overall leg development rather than regular free weight thet require the same plane movement every set/rep.

.

[ntrllftr]

Originally Posted by dbx

At least someone used the search button, but lol, this thread is 3yrs old .

DOH!