Every other day fasting

[usingpeople]

What do you think about this for fat loss (i.e. consuming very few cals one day) and eating at mainetenance level the next day?

[TheLegace]

Originally Posted by usingpeople

What do you think about this for fat loss (i.e. consuming very few cals one day) and eating at mainetenance level the next day?

Eating very few will just make you loose muscle.

Your body will go into starvation mode, and I am not sure how many days it takes to get back on normal mode.

Unfortunatlely I have to do these things on Saturdays and Sundays, I try to get calories, but I am restricted to three meals a day, and I can't get myself to eat a lot of calories.

[usingpeople]

surely it takes more than 1 day for your body to go into the so called "starvation mode" right?

[victormu]

its takes a couple of hrs if i recall correctlly.

[monkeydan]

There's no such thing as 'starvation mode' in my opinion, and it certainly wouldn't happen within a couple of hours. It takes several days of semi-starvation to affect metabolic rate in humans. The human metabolism does not slow down on a meal-to-meal basis. Contrary to popular belief, eating 6 or more meals a day, for example, does not increase metabolic rate in humans over and above 3 meals.

I think it's a sliding scale; your metabolism always slows down when you reduce calories; the bigger the deficit, the more it will slow down. But there's no evidence to suggest that there are any permanent changes in this regard, and the metabolism will never slow down to such a degree that you will no longer lose fat if you lower calories enough. I'm on another forum where people diet on 800 calories or so per day (basically protein, EFAs and a heap of fibrous veggies) and no one has complained of muscle loss.

There is some data looking at intermittent fasting. Surprisingly it does not seem to affect metabolic rate (the study ran for 21 days). I have also seen another study which seems to show that muscle loss does not occur on such a diet (again, in the short-term).

Alternate-day fasting in nonobese subjects: effects on body weight, body composition, and energy metabolism.

Heilbronn LK, Smith SR, Martin CK, Anton SD, Ravussin E.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA 70808, USA.
BACKGROUND: Prolonged dietary restriction increases the life span in rodents. Some evidence suggests that alternate-day fasting may also prolong the life span. OBJECTIVE: Our goal was to determine whether alternate-day fasting is a feasible method of dietary restriction in nonobese humans and whether it improves known biomarkers of longevity. DESIGN: Nonobese subjects (8 men and 8 women) fasted every other day for 22 d. Body weight, body composition, resting metabolic rate (RMR), respiratory quotient (RQ), temperature, fasting serum glucose, insulin, free fatty acids, and ghrelin were assessed at baseline and after 21 d (12-h fast) and 22 d (36-h fast) of alternate-day fasting. Visual analogue scales were used to assess hunger weekly. RESULTS: Subjects lost 2.5 +/- 0.5% of their initial body weight (P < 0.001) and 4 +/- 1% of their initial fat mass (P < 0.001). Hunger increased on the first day of fasting and remained elevated (P < 0.001). RMR and RQ did not change significantly from baseline to day 21, but RQ decreased on day 22 (P < 0.001), which resulted in an average daily increase in fat oxidation of > or =15 g. Glucose and ghrelin did not change significantly from baseline with alternate-day fasting, whereas fasting insulin decreased 57 +/- 4% (P < 0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Alternate-day fasting was feasible in nonobese subjects, and fat oxidation increased. However, hunger on fasting days did not decrease, perhaps indicating the unlikelihood of continuing this diet for extended periods of time. Adding one small meal on a fasting day may make this approach to dietary restriction more acceptable.

[snissors]

In a nutshell - keep it balanced, and keep it simple. "Fasting" every other day is unbalanced.

Folks, it all boils down to eating sensibly and exercising. Let's not complicate it.

[mnways]

will you be doing cardio and lifting for these 2 weeks? How would one get the energy to?

[new2lifting]

Originally Posted by mnways

will you be doing cardio and lifting for these 2 weeks? How would one get the energy to?

that is an excellent question

I would like to see you guys get under the squat rack eating sub 1500 calories...actually 1800-1900 should be the bare minimum for any man...and 2500 range is probably closer to ideal for cutting

most peoples problems is that they have little muscle mass, and these diets don't help you progress in lifting weights, and make you lose muscle, thus further making the problem of having little muscle mass worse

[toobsox]

Originally Posted by new2lifting

that is an excellent question

I would like to see you guys get under the squat rack eating sub 1500 calories...actually 1800-1900 should be the bare minimum for any man...and 2500 range is probably closer to ideal for cutting

most peoples problems is that they have little muscle mass, and these diets don't help you progress in lifting weights, and make you lose muscle, thus further making the problem of having little muscle mass worse

True...I train really hard and I'm pretty strong now, I basically need deloads every 3-4 weeks. Thats the one question that was still lingering about Dave's success -- whether he lost strength or not. He wasnt training balls to the wall at the time because of an injury -- part of the reason he started cutting (something to do while injured).

But mind you the guy is a beast powerlifter, youngest guy to bench 700 (shirted, obviously) and if he stays injury free he should be very successful.

Anyways, the way I might run it (if I decide to, for 2 sessions of 2 weeks a piece), I might organize my training around those weeks

w1-5: ramp to a peak at w5
w6-7: psmf, hard deload w6, gradual ramp w7 up to ~70%
w8-11: normal maintenance, maybe *slightly* above, ramp to new peak
w12-13: final psmf, or maybe not at all, depends how first one went

[mnways]

ookk so basically keto diet minus fat not an extreme low calorie .... god that would be hard no way i could do that happy i am bulking at the momet thinking about that make me hungry. im interested to see how it works out for you. good luck

[toobsox]

Originally Posted by mnways

ookk so basically keto diet minus fat not an extreme low calorie .... god that would be hard no way i could do that happy i am bulking at the momet thinking about that make me hungry. im interested to see how it works out for you. good luck

I'm still debating

Nah, if I do it will be in maybe 6 weeks or so, I really want to give my normal diet a chance for a bit. But I'll keep everyone updated if I decide to try it (and updated with my normal results of course ! )

One thing though, you still consume fats. I would be taking fish oil, like 8 pills a day (6g fish oil) and supplementing whey with plenty of flax and olive oil. I would estimate the ratio at like 2% carbs, 65% protein, 33% fats or around there....personally my calories would be around 1800-2000 because i'm a pretty big guy.