Lower back exercises, cardio questions!

[Germangirl]

What are some good lower back exercises? How do you get rid of the fat around the hips, sides of lower back?

Also, if Im trying to reduce body fat, am I doing enough cardio:
-4 times a week
-on average 30 min on stepper (high intensity, level 15/16 out of 20) or running on treadmill (intervals, b/w 6.5-7 for 2 minutes then 8.5-9 for 2 or 3 minutes).

Thanks!!!

[emunah]

Fat loss comes through diet, not cardio. That's how you get rid of that back fat.

Lower back exercises: Good mornings, extensions, deadlifts

[Germangirl]

Diet is VERY important in fat loss, however cardio does play a role. Why else do cardio then (besides the obvious cardiovascular health benefits)?

But I understand that doing high intensity cardio is better than low intensity for fat loss...because you are burning calories quicker thus the percentage of fat calories burned will be higher than doing low intensity cardio.

Im wondering though.... is my cardio "good" cardio or could I be doing more/different things (taking into consideration I have a good diet and a good weight program)?

[emunah]

Cardio is for health. Its overrated for fat loss. People do it because they think it works, but the effect isn't as strong as you think it is.

You are right about the higher intensity, but not because you think. It doesn't matter what the % of fat is (and you have it reversed anyway...lower intensity cardio burns a higher percentage of fat). The important thing is the total, and you are correct: you burn more total with higher intensity. But then, the best benefit comes through intervals, which don't burn as much DURING, but have a higher EPOC (after burn).

How do you know you have a good diet and weight program? Those things are more important and if they are good, the cardio will only add a little extra.

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by Germangirl

What are some good lower back exercises? How do you get rid of the fat around the hips, sides of lower back?

Also, if Im trying to reduce body fat, am I doing enough cardio:
-4 times a week
-on average 30 min on stepper (high intensity, level 15/16 out of 20) or running on treadmill (intervals, b/w 6.5-7 for 2 minutes then 8.5-9 for 2 or 3 minutes).

Thanks!!!

I agree with what emunah said.

To lose fat from aerobic type exercise you have to do it for a long time and at a low intensity.

In terms of low back, I though all the exercises listed are good, I would stick with the hypers initially, as deadlifts and good morning type exercises can make your waist blockier especially if done in low reps.

Train your obliques also. Twists work: it is the stopping and starting, not the movement itself. Do them rapidly for time (speed increases momentum that you have to overcome to change direction). You can do them bent over also.

Diet is crucial. Pick one and stick with it.

[TurbulentFluid]

It's pretty much as they said. For the first 15-20 minutes of cardio (some say up to 30, I guess it's individual) the energy for cardio comes from carb reserves stored within muscles. After that, you start burning the actual fat. So in order to manage those longer periods, most recommend lower intensity cardio. That's why they often recommend doing cardio on an empty stomach, or post-workout, suggesting that carb levels should be lower and fat burning would start earlier.

Also, I'd switch cardio on a fairly regular basis. Cardio also represents a way of working your muscles and they get used to a certain movement in cardio as well.

[emunah]

You should not do cardio on an empty stomach. It doesn't matter WHAT you burn while you're doing cardio. HIIT doesn't burn fat, but it is one of the most effective methods of cardio there is.

Even if you did burn more fat during your cardio session, the body makes up for it by burning less in the rest of the day. So at the end of the day, it doesn't make a difference.

[Germangirl]

yeah, I agree with what you all have said.

In terms of knowing my diet is good..it's not bad, could be better. I posted a thread in nutrition about my situation. If you have any advice for me there, please let me know. (It's called: Need better diet,motivation, busy schedule- HELP!)

In terms of switching cardio, I def. agree...especially since I get so bored doing the same thing all the time. What is a typical schedule for you, what kind/how long?

Defiant1- what do you mean by... some exercises make your "waist blockier?"

Thanks!

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by Germangirl

yeah, I agree with what you all have said.

In terms of knowing my diet is good..it's not bad, could be better. I posted a thread in nutrition about my situation. If you have any advice for me there, please let me know. (It's called: Need better diet,motivation, busy schedule- HELP!)

In terms of switching cardio, I def. agree...especially since I get so bored doing the same thing all the time. What is a typical schedule for you, what kind/how long?

Defiant1- what do you mean by... some exercises make your "waist blockier?"

Thanks!

If you are naturally wide waisted, development of certain muscles will make your waist look thicker and/or make your hips look "blockier". If you work your obliques with heavy weights, they will get bigger. In fact, they grow fairly quickly, especially if you are long waisted. The obliques consist of a large percentage of fast twitch muscle fiber in most people. The same thing with the gluteaus medius, which is high on your outside butt. Overdevelopment of this can give your butt a "square" look instead of a nice round look.

[smallguyjoe]

I always see people condemning fasted cardio and people saying that cardio doesn't really aid in fat loss. Well, all I have to say is the majority of people that I've seen that do fasted cardio (either in the morning on just a whey protein shake, or right after an intense weight training session) are the people that I want to look like. And, besides seeing the results of it on others, the results that I've had from it are enough to keep doing it. Look at my progress pics. When I did fasted cardio (1 scoop of whey and coffee) 1st thing in the morning I leaned out; I also ate very clean. When I stopped cardio for 4 months and still ate clean I gained weight, some muscle and some fat. When I did the cardio I gained only muscle. So, I think cardio can work great for some with fat loss. To say that it doesn't do that much is not right in my opinion.

However, diet is probably the more important variable with fat loss. As the main objective to losing fat is more calories burned than consumed, cardio aids in burning calories, but if you decrease calories that will help too. Timing when you eat your carbs is smart, and a high protein diet is good for preserving muscle when cutting. You could also do lower carbs on the days you don't train... that helped me too.

I suggest, if you can, do 1-2 cardio sessions a week, so 5-6 cardio sessions a week. If cardio is not giving you the results you want than tweek your diet here and there. Maybe try eating your higher carb meals around your workouts, and then lower carb meals for the others.

Anyway, my main point is that fasted cardio works... and not the low intensity stuff! When I did low intensity cardio it did next to nothing to my physique. When I did medium to high intensity interval training for the same amount of time it worked great. Hey, I know what works for some may not work for another, but all I'm sayin is it worked for me.

[Jordyn]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

I always see people condemning fasted cardio and people saying that cardio doesn't really aid in fat loss. Well, all I have to say is the majority of people that I've seen that do fasted cardio (either in the morning on just a whey protein shake, or right after an intense weight training session) are the people that I want to look like. And, besides seeing the results of it on others, the results that I've had from it are enough to keep doing it. Look at my progress pics. When I did fasted cardio (1 scoop of whey and coffee) 1st thing in the morning I leaned out; I also ate very clean. When I stopped cardio for 4 months and still ate clean I gained weight, some muscle and some fat. When I did the cardio I gained only muscle. So, I think cardio can work great for some with fat loss. To say that it doesn't do that much is not right in my opinion.

However, diet is probably the more important variable with fat loss. As the main objective to losing fat is more calories burned than consumed, cardio aids in burning calories, but if you decrease calories that will help too. Timing when you eat your carbs is smart, and a high protein diet is good for preserving muscle when cutting. You could also do lower carbs on the days you don't train... that helped me too.

I suggest, if you can, do 1-2 cardio sessions a week, so 5-6 cardio sessions a week. If cardio is not giving you the results you want than tweek your diet here and there. Maybe try eating your higher carb meals around your workouts, and then lower carb meals for the others.

Anyway, my main point is that fasted cardio works... and not the low intensity stuff! When I did low intensity cardio it did next to nothing to my physique. When I did medium to high intensity interval training for the same amount of time it worked great. Hey, I know what works for some may not work for another, but all I'm sayin is it worked for me.

this is what im doing too

[smallguyjoe]

Thanks for that, Jordyn!

I also thought of something this morning on the whole topic of cardio not really doing that much for weight loss. When I first started exercising, working out, training what ever you want to call it, I was 150 lbs and completely out of shape. I started cardio for 30-45 min, not fasted, maybe 3-5 times a week. I only made minor changes in my diet, except not drinking soda and not really eating past 8-9 pm. The only strength training I did (if you can even call it that) is push ups, dumbbell curls, tricep extensions, and crunches. I didn't know anything yet, but just doing that (I think it was about 7-9 months) I went down to 130-135 lbs. I didn't look how I wanted to, b/c I was not doing proper strength training, and my diet was not even close to optimal. However, I looked in much better shape than I had at 150 lbs and flubby. My point is cardio played a huge role in my weight loss then too.

I'm typing this all for your benefit and for those that say cardio doesn't really do anything. Cardio works. Diet works. Weight training works. Do all three and BAM! You'll get the results you want. Think about it. You can either decrease your caloric intake by dieting down, or you can do cardio and burn calories, or even better do both! But, both work. I'd rather do cardio and train my heart if I had to pick between the two. Hey, I may not be an expert, but again, results speak louder than opinions typed on a forum to me. I've even seen a thread with all of this scince about fatsed cardio and how unoptimal it is, but yet again I appeal to my results and the results of others.

Maybe I'll find out that it's better not to do fasted cardio, but for now it's been workin just fine for me. Maybe it's not truly fasted though since I do drink a scoop of whey w/ water, a cup of coffee, 2 ke-alkalyn pills, and a vitamin. I've been doing this since Jan. 2, 2007 and my weight has gone from 155 to 156 to 153 to 154 lbs currently. So, I have only lost a lb, but I'm not aiming to lose weight really. I'm trying to get better definition and even grow more muscle if possible. I haven't changed my diet yet, except I'm taking care to eat as clean as I can, and only having 1-2 cheat meals a week... if that. I'll be getting my bf% tested again soon to see if I've made any progress. I think by the looks of the pictures I've takin that I've gotten some more definition, so I'm guessing that my bf% has decreased a little since I started up cardio on Jan. 2. If after 2 more months of all the cardio and eating clean I'm still 9.6% bf (that's what I was on Jan. 3), then I will agree with all of the peeps saying that cardio does not really do that much. Until then...

Good luck with your training... and deadlifts are great, so are squats, and barbell bent over rows, and weighted crunches! If you want to develop the muscles in your body than train them with weight, eat clean, rest and let em grow. The chicks that I see at the gym doing serious weight training are the one's that are toned and tight looking. Try deadlifts for your lower back and weighted crunches for 3 months and see what results you get. If you don't like it, then stop. You won't get huge and blocky after a few months, and even if you got bigger than you wanna be you can just stop and lose the muscle. It looks like you're doin great though, so keep it up.

[Jordyn]

i do agree w/ joe.

but, i dont do fasted cardio, per se. i cant force myself to wake up and head str8 to the gym, and i think cardio on an empty stomach wouldnt feel 2 good (tho it mite not b bad if i have a protein shake b4 hand).

i do cardio rite after i lift, 20 min, and then i take my PWO shake. i just started this yesterday so we'll see how it goes

[gams]

i agree with smallguyjoe. there's no such thing as spot reducing so if you stick to a routine of weights, cardio, and clean eating, you will achieve maximum results. good luck.

[CassBH]

Boy, you get people started on cardio talk and things can get really heated! so here is a question:

If you are eating fairly clean most of the time, strength training effectively 4 times a week, how much cardio do you think is necessary to "assist" with the fat-burning process, assuming that is the goal?

Also, an unrelated question: Have you all found any websites (other than this one, of course!) that are good resources for newbies to help give you ideas regarding clean eating, especially on a very busy schedule?

Thanks!

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by CassBH

Boy, you get people started on cardio talk and things can get really heated! so here is a question:

If you are eating fairly clean most of the time, strength training effectively 4 times a week, how much cardio do you think is necessary to "assist" with the fat-burning process, assuming that is the goal?

Also, an unrelated question: Have you all found any websites (other than this one, of course!) that are good resources for newbies to help give you ideas regarding clean eating, especially on a very busy schedule?

Thanks!

Hey, as far as other websites... I don't know of any to recommend. For the amount of cardio to lose fat I'd try at least 5x a week for 20-30 min each session. You could do longer sessions if you have the time... I wouldn't do longer than 60 min though, and I wouldn't do longer than 30 min after an intense weight training session. Make sure to get in protein and carbs after cardio, just like you would after weight training. I'm not an expert, as I've stated above, but 5x a week for 30 min each session has helped me lean out in the past.

As for eating clean with a busy schedule, I'dtry and pack every meal if you can. If you have to buy something try and be as healthy as you can. I'm fortunate and am able to go home for lunch, but mid morning and mid afternoon meals I bring with me to work. Post workout I bring a shake and a banana to the gym, and then I go home and eat dinner an hr later.

[CassBH]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

Hey, as far as other websites... I don't know of any to recommend. For the amount of cardio to lose fat I'd try at least 5x a week for 20-30 min each session. You could do longer sessions if you have the time... I wouldn't do longer than 60 min though, and I wouldn't do longer than 30 min after an intense weight training session. Make sure to get in protein and carbs after cardio, just like you would after weight training. I'm not an expert, as I've stated above, but 5x a week for 30 min each session has helped me lean out in the past.

As for eating clean with a busy schedule, I'dtry and pack every meal if you can. If you have to buy something try and be as healthy as you can. I'm fortunate and am able to go home for lunch, but mid morning and mid afternoon meals I bring with me to work. Post workout I bring a shake and a banana to the gym, and then I go home and eat dinner an hr later.

Thanks for the tips! I wish I had that kind of time to dedicate to cardio but I don't. I have 18 month old twins and work out at home. right now, realistically, I have about 4-5 hours total per week to dedicate to exercise (that has to include both cardio and weights). Any idea how to best divide my time in order to lean out and burn fat?

FYI: I am 5'8, 135 lbs, considered slim, just need to lose some fat to see some definition, and hopefully put on some more muscle at some point in the process.

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by CassBH

Thanks for the tips! I wish I had that kind of time to dedicate to cardio but I don't. I have 18 month old twins and work out at home. right now, realistically, I have about 4-5 hours total per week to dedicate to exercise (that has to include both cardio and weights). Any idea how to best divide my time in order to lean out and burn fat?

FYI: I am 5'8, 135 lbs, considered slim, just need to lose some fat to see some definition, and hopefully put on some more muscle at some point in the process.

Hey, you're welcome. Alright, I'm 5'6" and was 130 lbs last March, so it seems we may be similar body types. If you've only got 4-5 hrs a week then here's what I suggest:

Mon- chest, bi's, & abs 20 min cardio after lifting/ Wed- legs & 20 min cardio after lifting/ Thurs- shoulders, tri's & 20 min cardio after weights/ Fri- back and abs & 20 min cardio after weights

So, there you have a 4 day split. If you can fit another day in do maybe 45-60 min of cardio.

If you look at my progress pics you will see that from March to August I went from 130 lbs to 138 lbs and looked more defined and leaner. I did this with a clean diet, 4-5 day split and cardio 4-5 times a week for 20-30 min. I think if you eat clean, and train consistantly with the split I recommended above you'll probably see good results.

Another thing... I don't know what equipment you have, but heavy weight training was key to my progress. I trained with reps of about 12,10,8,4-6. You want to train with heavy weights and perform mass building exercises like squats, deadlifts, barbell bent over rows, and bench presses. If you don't have access to heavy weights then you may want to join a gym or buy some equipment for your home. Also, eat about at least 135 g of protein a day (1-1.5 g per body weight a day). Best wishes for you, buddy!

[CassBH]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

Hey, you're welcome. Alright, I'm 5'6" and was 130 lbs last March, so it seems we may be similar body types.

Well, not to be a smart ass, but there is one thing that sets our bodies apart...I am female! While some people don't think that matters much in terms of what works for fat loss, I would say that I feel women hold onto body fat a bit stronger than men. Not to say your techniques would not work for me. Regardless, I would rather do less cardio than more, as I HATE cardio and would rather be lifting

BTW, can you give me an example of your "clean" eating (like maybe a typical day's menu)?

Thanks again, and I really wasn't trying to be flip with that whole male/female thing!

Cass

[smallguyjoe]

Originally Posted by CassBH

Well, not to be a smart ass, but there is one thing that sets our bodies apart...I am female! While some people don't think that matters much in terms of what works for fat loss, I would say that I feel women hold onto body fat a bit stronger than men. Not to say your techniques would not work for me. Regardless, I would rather do less cardio than more, as I HATE cardio and would rather be lifting

BTW, can you give me an example of your "clean" eating (like maybe a typical day's menu)?

Thanks again, and I really wasn't trying to be flip with that whole male/female thing!

Cass

OOOpppss... sorry, Cass. Ok, yeah, you're right that your body will hold onto fat a bit more than mine, but yes, all exercise, training, whatever, and diet will work for you too. I hate cardio as well! I don't mind lifting, and actually look forward to it, but I dread doing cardio.

As for my current diet it looks like this:

6:50 am - 1 scoop whey w/ water, cup of black coffee, vitamin, creatine

cardio 30 min

7:40 am - 3 egg whites, 1 yolk, 1/4 cup of steel cut oats w/ cinnimmon, 2 tbls of flax seed meal, and a bit of soy milk

10:10 am - 1/4 c of almonds, 1/4 c of cashews, and an apple

12:40 pm - 2 slices of whole wheat w/ chicken, and 1/2 c of raw broccoli

3:10 pm - 2 slices of whole wheat w/ natural peanut butter, and an orange

5:30 pm - take creatine before I lift, and during workout drink water w/ 4 scoops of Xtend (bcaa powder)

6:30 pm - drink 2 scoops of whey w/ water, a banana, and a vitamin

7:30 pm - dinner - something like chicken cooked in olive oil, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, or sweet or baked potato, and a green veggie

9:30 pm - 1 scoop of whey w/ 1% milk

So, that's my current diet. It's about 3,000 - 3,200 calories. I'm 154 lbs and a male so your diet would probably be less... I would think a good caloric intake for you would be somewhere between 1900 - 2200 calories... I'm not an expert when it comes to diet. I pretty much looked at what others did and tweaked it to my own diet plan. Eating clean just means that you limit your bad fat intake to very very low, and consume mostly good fats like olive oil, flax seed, fish, nuts. You limit simple sugars to almost only the ones you get from fresh fruits and veggies. Your carbs should be whole wheat breads and pastas, brown rice, sweet or regular potatoes, and fruits and good veggies. Some people won't really eat too much fruit, but it's great for post workout b/c you body can use the sugars for repairing the muscles. Chicken, turkey, lean beef, fish, and eggs are great sources of protein. I use whey for when I want the protein quickly like in the morning and after I workout. If I could I would get all my protein from meats but it's hard. Sweet like candy and pastries... you know and stuff that is unhealthy are not to be consumed when trying to improve your physique and live healthy. I try to limit crappy foods to maybe 1-2 times a week if I even indulge that much. I try to go weeks w/o any desert... I wait til I'm craving something and then go for it, but I rarely go over board with the cheat meals. I mean I took a few months off of the cardio and wasn't as strict with the diet, and I paid for it, but you gotta live a little sometimes. I suggest trying to limit cheat meals to once - twice (max) a week, and then after 1-2 months of that try and go 2-3 weeks with no cheat meals... really work on disciplining yourself to eating healthy. Over time a bland diet becomes natural. Hope this helps a bit, Cass. Later.

-Joe

[smallguyjoe]

Cass, you can try something like on your off days of training cutting out some carbs... like for example, instead of bread or pasta do a salad with chicken or fish, whatever. If you're not burning the carbs exercising than your body won't need the fuel. Don't go doin no carbs, just cut some here and there.

[CassBH]

Originally Posted by smallguyjoe

As for my current diet it looks like this:

6:50 am - 1 scoop whey w/ water, cup of black coffee, vitamin, creatine

cardio 30 min

7:40 am - 3 egg whites, 1 yolk, 1/4 cup of steel cut oats w/ cinnimmon, 2 tbls of flax seed meal, and a bit of soy milk

10:10 am - 1/4 c of almonds, 1/4 c of cashews, and an apple

12:40 pm - 2 slices of whole wheat w/ chicken, and 1/2 c of raw broccoli

3:10 pm - 2 slices of whole wheat w/ natural peanut butter, and an orange

5:30 pm - take creatine before I lift, and during workout drink water w/ 4 scoops of Xtend (bcaa powder)

6:30 pm - drink 2 scoops of whey w/ water, a banana, and a vitamin

7:30 pm - dinner - something like chicken cooked in olive oil, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, or sweet or baked potato, and a green veggie

9:30 pm - 1 scoop of whey w/ 1% milk
-Joe

Holy Crap! That's a lot of eating! Looks like a full-time job just by itself Well, I think, based on that, my eating is pretty clean.

My only real issue is that I have a sensitivity to gluten, and as a lifter, that really sucks. It means no oatmeal, no wheat breads. I have to rely on rice and NG pasta (which is made from rice) for carbs. Oh, also potatoes are fine. Not a ton of options, though.

I think I might try doing some small amounts of oatmeal again and see how I react. I was eating it everyday, which may be too much for me.

Thanks for giving me an idea of your diet. OK, off to put the kids down for a nap and get in the dreaded, horrible, cardio!!!!

[gams]

Originally Posted by CassBH

dreaded, horrible, cardio!!!!

my thoughts exactly regarding cardio lol

[chicagojosh]

i'd have to say cardio does help loss fat. of course a good diet is needed too, but it really is simple math. burn more calories than you eat.

and i THINK you DO want to do cardio on an empty stomach. that will keep force your body to burn fats for energy as opposed to just using up some carbos you just ate...

[freebirdmac]

Whoa! Time warp!

[madelineoneil]

i would tend to agree that cardio does help with fat burning....i tried to experiment with this last year after i read a bunch of post on another forum about how carido does nothing for you but give you heart health...so i stopped doing it for a couple months, and i didnt really gain any fat, but i sure as **** wasnt losing any at all. and even tho i LOATHE cardio, i do like how it makes me feel overall.

i try and do 30 minutes 4 or 5 times a week...usually treadmill, uphill at 4mph. i try and change it up with the bike or treadclimber here and there...my gym doesnt have elipicals and i like to go outside and walk, but i live in washington state. not alot of dry days.

do alot of you run? i hate running almost as much as i hate cardio in general...i just walk really freakin fast. sometimes i put on ankle weights if im feelin frisky.

[digitalbath11]

I have done it all and none, and a combination.

Cardio and weights and no diet
Cardio alone
Weights alone
Diet alone
weights and Diet and no cardio
ETC, ETC!

Everytime I entered DIET in the mix, that's when I lost weight. And when I mean diet, I mean eating sensible meals under maintenance.

It all depends on your goals. There's a way to go about them all.