True Ectomorph/Hardgainers!

samoththomas · 10-08-2006, 03:51 PM

I would like to start a new thread for aspiring bodybuilders who are genetically disadvantaged in the area of muscle and strength gains in and out of the gym. As a natural ectomorph...or what I consider to be a "true ectomorph"(someone who is *ABOVE* 6-2 inches in height and who has extremely LONG arms and legs and a relatively short torso).....my arms are about 30" long and my legs are about 42" long and with naturally slooping shoulders! needless to say, as an ectomorph bench pressing is by far the most useless movement for someone of my stature and frame. Someone who says it doesnt matter how long or thin your arms are is out of touch with reality. My leverage and biomechanics dont work well with that movement, but pair me up against a mesomorph type "bench press master" in the deadlift and Ill smoke him due to my long arms and legs. If you have trouble seeing gains in size and strength and if you are a real ectomorph...try forward leaning dips to focus on chest primarily, and triceps as well. You will see that its not so much that you are weak but that certain movements do in fact work way better for some then others. Ive spent so much time trying to gain on that movement and it just doesnt budge, so, I dropped it and am much happier for doing so. Anybody else see any success when using dips for chest as opposed to benching. Also, as true ectomorph, I started out at a weight of about 155-160 at 6-4!!! and for people to start recognizing me as a weightlifter or just someone who looks like they go to a gym I had to get to a weight of about 230-235.....anything under 220 and people would still call me lanky, skinny and gangly. Its not so much that Im "skinny", but my limb lengths and structure give me that look. If anyone else has any advice on what works for this specific body type please tell me your routines and or preferences.

Frankenfield · 10-08-2006, 03:59 PM

squat, deadlift, military press, chin-ups are the ones that work the best for me.

Alternamaton · 10-08-2006, 04:20 PM

Interesting comment about bench presses versus dips for people with long arms. I might try switching to dips.

samoththomas · 10-08-2006, 06:12 PM

I read a post a while back where someone said that it didnt matter how long a bench pressers arms were....and that someone with long arms has muscle in the same proportions as someone with short little stubby piston like arms?! So if you take his little chubbs and stretch them out to my length they will contain the same amount of muscle? NO! They will have his amount of muscle and muscle types not what I have, we are not all equal in those respects. Tendon length, joint size, forearm length and size,muscle bellies,bone structure and size....its all part of the equation. Plus, I look at function and progression. Is the target muscle working or is it not? On the bench I feel a whole lot of strain in the triceps, lots of waver and flailing in the forearms and pressure on my delt insertions,sore controted wrists, then maybe....the chest comes into play. My strength levels in that movement stay the same week after week and therefore progression in weights comes to a halt and I experience no growth. Could it be that my torso and shoulder blades at this height also give me a disadvantage when it comes to achieving a proper balance on the actual bench itself as compared to someone who is 5-8 with a large torso and short limbs and a relatively narrow shoulder complex? Lots of little things that people dont seem bring up. At this height we are above average(6'-3"+) so most of the people writing articles or giving advice dont address these things. With dipping(forward leaning), I can count on my weights going up progressively, and my chest feeling worked(long forearms are taken out of the equation with this movement as well as wrist pain). Some tall lifters may be built differently, but many tall powerlifter types are naturally robust and are therefore NOT ectomorphs, just taller mesomorphs...in this case, the above statement about limb lengths not making a difference might have some weight. BTW, do any tall lanky guys do paralell or rock bottom squats...?, I do 75% squats and I get good results. the added 25% to paralell or even below feels awkward and I feel its dangerous.

Frankenfield · 10-08-2006, 06:22 PM

i do full squats although i had to do high weight paralell squats before i could do full since full squats felt really odd. Once i got to about 425lbs with parallel i starting to do full squats with success

ShingleSt · 10-08-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alternamaton

Interesting comment about bench presses versus dips for people with long arms. I might try switching to dips.

I am a true ectomorph as well--very long legs and arms and relatively short torso. I agree with you about leaning-forward dips--they are a primary part of my routine. As far as bench press goes, I find I have much more success with dumbbell pressing movements, but I really have to concentrate on form to work the chest. The hardest thing for me is keeping my shoulder blades pressed together on the pressing movement. My shoulders always roll forward, with all the weight going to the triceps and deltoids. I don't seem to have any problem bulking up the shoulders (I suppose because they get hit on some many different types of lifts), but the chest is a huge problem.

Defiant1 · 10-08-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samoththomas

I would like to start a new thread for aspiring bodybuilders who are genetically disadvantaged in the area of muscle and strength gains in and out of the gym. As a natural ectomorph...or what I consider to be a "true ectomorph"(someone who is *ABOVE* 6-2 inches in height and who has extremely LONG arms and legs and a relatively short torso).....my arms are about 30" long and my legs are about 42" long and with naturally slooping shoulders! needless to say, as an ectomorph bench pressing is by far the most useless movement for someone of my stature and frame. Someone who says it doesnt matter how long or thin your arms are is out of touch with reality. My leverage and biomechanics dont work well with that movement, but pair me up against a mesomorph type "bench press master" in the deadlift and Ill smoke him due to my long arms and legs. If you have trouble seeing gains in size and strength and if you are a real ectomorph...try forward leaning dips to focus on chest primarily, and triceps as well. You will see that its not so much that you are weak but that certain movements do in fact work way better for some then others. Ive spent so much time trying to gain on that movement and it just doesnt budge, so, I dropped it and am much happier for doing so. Anybody else see any success when using dips for chest as opposed to benching. Also, as true ectomorph, I started out at a weight of about 155-160 at 6-4!!! and for people to start recognizing me as a weightlifter or just someone who looks like they go to a gym I had to get to a weight of about 230-235.....anything under 220 and people would still call me lanky, skinny and gangly. Its not so much that Im "skinny", but my limb lengths and structure give me that look. If anyone else has any advice on what works for this specific body type please tell me your routines and or preferences.

Good post but SHORT LEGS are better for deadlifting.

Long arms/wide waist are good as you said. What you want is a body that is as upright as possible from the start.

Your analysis is good. Ectos usually have small "muscle bellies" in the torso, so they can do decline type pec moves to good result without becoming bottom heavy.

Out of curiosity, were you getting RESULTS from the flat bench? Many ectos are not STRONG on compounds, but get good muscle building results from them because their long limbs/shallow torso are good for stressing the pecs. Just like many endos are GOOD at compounds but get little muscle building because of lack of range of motion.

My normal advice would be to:

Use short routines based on basics. Use primarily BBs for the reasons stated above. Keep carbs high/Protein high.

Sounds like your introspection skills are good. Keep at it.

TheCore · 10-08-2006, 06:41 PM

It's all aout the food!!! You need to eat and eat and eat and continue doing this until you reach your first bulk!

After that I didn't had a very hard time gaining mass anymore...

Keep your routine compound based (3-1 ratio > every three compounds do one iso)...

best regards · 10-08-2006, 08:18 PM

Very interesting I've always found the bench very difficult for me but never thought of completely forgeting it. My deadlift is great (For my age and time training) and squat is increasing 3x a week. Hmm... have any other hardgainers experienced having pretty strong shoulders and triceps but a pathetically weak chest? Because that's how I am at the moment.

TheCore · 10-09-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by best regards

Very interesting I've always found the bench very difficult for me but never thought of completely forgeting it. My deadlift is great (For my age and time training) and squat is increasing 3x a week. Hmm... have any other hardgainers experienced having pretty strong shoulders and triceps but a pathetically weak chest? Because that's how I am at the moment.

Me, chest was also my weak point...

Shoulders was one of my stronger points until injuries... triceps actually made my arms look to big at one point :P

Also have a very strong back and I'm also very strong in the deadlift and squat. The bench press always sucked though...

I'm not that tall (1.80) by dutch standards at least...

Edit; I was more a real ecto though, atleast that's how I see myself in the past...

Nomarr5 · 12-26-2007, 01:35 PM

I believe I'm a true ectomorph. Started at 6'3 150 and am now 6'3 3/4 225. My bench is one of my best excercises, and I am now able to max out at 360. The problem is that my chest reallt lags behind in musculature development, ESPECIALLY ON THE SIDES AND BOTTOM. I've tried wide grip dumbells with decent results but usually end up hurting my shoulder. Other than the dips do you guys have any advise on getting that real full chest? Thanks