cardio

[tone-n-up]

I am in the gym every morning. I am watching a lot of these BB lifting weights all the time. The are looking great some even losing inches. I have to say, I never see some of them doing cardio. Are they doing cardio, just not at the gym, or is is possible to lift weight and not do cardio and still lose inches? Just curious.

[TripleTee]

It all depends on the intensity of your lift and your metabolism rate.
No two people are similar. you could do cardio for ever or lift like no tomorrow and still not see any gains or losses!

What makes you loose wgt is actually the intensity of your workout. (along with a diet) when you workout at a 75-85% of maximum heart rate, then you will be burning fat.

The best way to do so is, needless to say, cardio... now whether those people you see at the gym do cardio or not is a question yet to be answered but as a wise man on these forums said ... not everything you see in the gym is correct.

so you want to loose wgt my suggestion is...
go on a good food balanced diet.

if your workouts are wgt lifting ones then I would recommend a 10 to 15 mins warm up on a tred mill .... workout... 20 to 40-45 mins of cardio afterwards...at 75% heart rate.
and then hit the showers.

I hope this ansewrs your question

[tone-n-up]

Thanks for the reply. I am doing good with my workout and my cardio. I was just curious if maybe I could skimp a little on the cardio. That was so bad for me to even ask. I am enjoying what I am doing and should just keep it up. I have been going now for working on 3 months. I have seen great results. My kids are even telling me how awesome I look. I am mostly toning. I have a few inches in some places to lose but mostly toning.
Thanx again for the response it is appreciated

[TripleTee]

well no ... not bad of you to even ask... you are only human and it is at times in human nature to try or want to do the best with the least effort.
+ you are a mom and just by being able to stick to your workouts is determination and good will....
Many family people take that as an excuse not to go down to the gym ... they are too busy they want to look after the kids... etc. I think it is all crap!

Any ways congrats and the main reason I am writing is that I may have found a way that could make you ...NOT Skip cardio but maybe do less time on the tred mill...

Here is the thing... I had stated that in order to burn fat you should be working out at a 75 to 85% of maximum heart rate. at times this may take a while before you get there ...well and I am sure you allready do this . but it 're-occured' to me yesterday that if you are walking at a moderately fast pace... simply by swinging your arms as if you were running, this will make your walk more intense and thus elevate your heart rate... plus it induces fat loss around the obliques as well as off the back... well a little but it does help. especially that a conventional tread mill walk would concentrate more on the lower body.

Yup so this was my tip ... swing those arms while walking!

cheers

[TrishB]

TripleT is right that we are all different and some of us have to work alot harder than others to achieve the same results.
It sounds like you have the right routine going now.

Do not start skimping. With only 3 months under your belt, you are still a newbie. I've been doing this for years. I have seen so many people start working out with great enthusiasm for a few months, and then slowly fade away.
It all starts with I think I will skip today....I promise to go tomorrow........

You can change up your weightlifting and cardio routines so you don't get into a rut. Just do not slow down....especially right now.
In time, working out will become part of your life....something that you need to do, not just have to do.

Keep up the great work!!

[Belle]

Is that there are two things that you can do to lose weight and they will all be AS effective where fat loss is concerned.

#1:

Diet. Simply cut 500 calories off what you normally need for your current weight and height and will lose weight. Some lose it consistently at 2lbs per week. The only problem with that is that when you have lost all that fat and don't adopt some form of exercise to increase your muscle mass, when you goUP to maintenance of that weight you have reached, and don't watch what your eating you will gain it all back quickly.

#2:

Diet and increase lean muscle mass. This is to say cut back your daily calories by 500 every day and eat the right types of foods to lose fat and gain lean muscle. As you gain lean muscle each pound you gain burns of 50 calories MORE than you did previously on a daily basis. Now to my mind there are TWO ways you can cut back the 500 calories.

A:

Eat 250 calories less and burn 250 calories in cardio per day.

B:

Eat 500 hundred calories less.

Which seems to indicate to me that cardio is not really necessary and COULD in fact confuse your body---especially if you think your burning 250 calories and you actually burn maybe 400 calories instead that day AND eat 250 less. That equates to 650 calories and possibly--well more than likely actually is going to make your body hold onto body fat. It goes into famine mode. So despite all your hard work and persistance, that last few pounds of fat won't budge and in fact your body takes whatever fuel your giving it and squirrells that away too.

I have come to the point where I don't see any sense in doing cardio when I can lose fat by just cutting 500 calories exactly from my daily food and concentrate on building muscle mass. Three hours of quality stuff in that area and eating quality for the quantity I am allowed is JUST as valid a way of doing it than sitting on a stationary cycle and moving. For what it's worth, I'd rather take the other option because I have little time as a family person anyway and that is not really an excuse-- it is fact. Five kids means five lot's of individual attention to each and every one of them. So this is where I need to FIND the time for me and them also and compromise.

PS: When building lean muscle mass NEVER forget that for every POUND of muscle you gain, your allowed 50 calories MORE each day ON TOP OF the allowance you previously had. If you remember this, your far less likely to stall and should have no problems.

[tone-n-up]

I am curious to hear how well this actually works for you. I somewhat understand what you are saying but am a little baffled at the concept of no cardio.
How long have you done your weight training this way?
Of course I must say, with my 20 min of cardio 3 times a week is probably a must for me as I do not count calories. I watch my protein and carb intake and let that be my guide. From time to time I check to see how many cal it adds up to in a day and on average it is between 1300 and 1500 does not usually go over 1500. Mind you I am a medium boned person that weighs 153 lbs. and stand at 5 ft 8 inches.

[Belle]

Has basically been to do weight training three times per week on alternate days and the cardio has been high intensity for 20 minutes on the days inbetween as in BFL. My diet has virtually been unchanged and as in the book with the exception of three weeks on the atkins diet. Basically I have been doing that for 8 weeks and even longer I would say as I started going to the gym at the beginning of November. My fat loss has been painfully slow. Then I lost 7 lbs on the Atkins diet and got down to 150 lbs. Several weeks back on BFL and I am STILL not seeing any fat loss as such. in fact my body seems to be determined to keep it in the areas I don't want it.

I have basically done no cardio this week because I have finally come around to the thought that if all I need to do to lose weight is create a 500 calorie deficit and eat the right foods for muscle growth at the right times, this has got to be AS good as busting my self on the stationary cycle. I have been doing intervals as described in the BFL book basically. The last day or so I have seen a loss of a pound in just doing nothing but weight training.

I just did not have time to slot the cardio in this week and irnonically losing a pound got me thinking more in depth about it. Even my Personal Trainer reckoned that I was either doing TOO much or not eating enough. It is hard to determine how much of a deficit I am creating by doing those high intensity intervals on the bike as I do and I calculated yesterday that I had been burnibg more like 400 calories doing them with the fat burning that occurs after also when you delay your meal an hour...and possibly more. In other words, I don't know what deficit I am creating and right now, I cannot even fit the x6 meals per day that I am taking in, let alone more calories because of the cardio.

Guess it is like having a High Interest bank Account. Go under your balance of $5'000 and you don't get any interest on the account and charges apply for any transactions that you do. Basically you can reduce the balance in two ways. Withdrawals and bank charges. Let's imagine that withdrawals are like the 250 calories you cut off your intake and the bank charges are what you use up in cardio. Withdrawals are withdrawals at the end of the day--they deplete your bank balance. Well calories spent on energy are just the same as calories you don't eat that day--they come off the total daily intake -maintenance amount every day. Your body doesn't know the difference between calories expended in energy and calories you didn't take in---it just sees a deficit. If that deficit is TOO large and over 500 calories it whines and packs a sad---throws a wobbly and will not cooperate wherefat loss is concerned. Well that is what fat loss and dieting is like. The calories burned just mean you get a bonus because you can eat 250 less than your maintenance level instead of 500 calories less. Either or, there is no difference. create 500 deficit--lose fat. I never minded doing the cardio in fact I love being at my local gym--almost too much to be honest --- but I never knew what withdrawals I was making where calories where concerned in other words.

When your body goes into famine mode it happens because there is not enough fuel for the amount of activity occuring. If you try to burn off anymore than 500 calories, it is sensed and this is where signals are sent to alpha 2 receptor cells (a type of fat cell) and instructs the cell to hang on to the fat inside it because it needs to preserve some fuel. This happens with ANY type of diet and exercise program--doesnt matter what you do, if you start losing more than 1 lb a week fat, your body starts to send those messages to the alpha 2 cells to lock up. (I just wish I had more of those in my boobs than my butt that's all--I'd be like Dolly Parton by now with all the squirrelling that they have been doin!)

In addition, it may even start squirrelling the fuel you DO take into the fat cells also which means those areas never get any smaller. This is where patience comes in. Not trying to lose too much all at once but working at losing a steady small amount weekly will fool your body into thinking there is not famine. It will be happy to give up a small amount, but not big huge portions of body fat too quickly. As I said there has always been two ways of losing fat. To burn 250 calories with exercise and eat 250 calories less or to eat 500 calories less. However to keep it off you really need a fast metabolism in my estimation and therefore that is where building muscle mass comes in. It speeds up fat loss as you go. As a body builder I feel you lean muscle mass is changing from one week to the next and so therefore your metabolism is too really. It is slowly speeding up and needs more fuel as you plod along through your workouts week in and week out.

I am convinced that I can skip the cardio and just eat 500 calories less. As long as my food is pure and balanced where macronutrients are concerned, then muscle growth will occur and fat loss will occur at the same rate as what it would if I did cardio and reduced my calories back 250. I will let you know I go. I am keeping a journal in the ladies forum to monitor my progress.

[tone-n-up]

This is so ironic. I am doing the BFL as well and I am currently having the same difficulties with that little biit of extra fat. I have been pretty much doing great without taking any supplements and making sure that I am eating really good choice meals. But within the last few weeks my body is just holding on tight to the fat in spots that I wish it would just let go of. I started taking BetaLean yesterday because of the frustration.
Judging from my stats of eating no more than 1500 cal a day, I am thinking I really cannot eat less than that. I do not want to make my body think I am starving it. I really bounce around day by day of 1300 to 1500. I suppose this is all in the choices I make for each meal.
I would really love to hear your results on your weight with not doing the cardio. If this idea that you have seems to work for you then I am thinking this might be the same issue with me. I normally would be doing cardio tomorrow, but I think I am going to skip it just to see the result. It would be nice if I could just weight train three days a week. I am thinking maybe I would even have more energy.
Thank you for sharing this info, it is really appreciated.
Please let me know how it works for you.

[Belle]

I am 150 lbs and 5 ft 2" and don't really know what my LBM is but I know I can feel 17 lbs of fat approx on my body all over. No more than this I'd say. So what percentage body fat am I do you think? Most of it is on the thighs and tummy. I have atleast 3 lbs on each leg--no joke. I have lost much of the fat from the upper body but not at the bottom. When I read about the alpha 2 receptor cells it says they are predominatly in the tummy and thighs and lower body in women and in the lower back and tummy in men. So I guess it is those alpha 2's that have been told to lock up. I know they have because my thighs reached 24" each and then they will not give anymore up even over 6 weeks. I think the alpha 2's are having a little party down there.

[TripleTee]

If you ask me I would say that cutting down on the amount of calories you consume and not doing cardio is not always the way to go.

It all, in the end, depends on what your body is used to and how you shock it with new exercises.

Now Bell if you change your routine all of a sudden and itroduce some cardio... tread mill of spinning you may actually trigger some fat loss in those areas you mentioned.

Adding muscle mass is also a necessity because over the years and diets you would have both gone into your body at one time or another would rather store fat and use up muscle cells. So what the scale tells you isn't always right!

Maybe the ultimate way to go is a combination of all three. Cardio, muscle trainig and diet. That is what works for me and I am ready to shed of the last remaining stuborn fat off my mid section to show my abs!

Nothing is ever balck or white. Maybe more wgt training is just what you need Tone!
Experiment. In both cases you are going down to the gym. And remember that your bodies adapt to levels of stress and pressure so when you introduce something new... like cardio or wgt training the reaction will be to your liking.

I say never stick to one routine.

[tone-n-up]

I can agree with what you are saying as well, but if you look at it another way, then to maybe stop with the cardio for a little while, then starting again is botha a shock and this may be needed as well.
When I think about it, I was doing Weight watchers about a year ago. I was only going for walks with 8 min buns and 8 min abs. I was losing inches like you would not believe. It was incredibly easy for me. I would still be doing that but I want muscle tone. And of course for some reason my hair was falling out doing the weight watchers. I think because of not getting enough protein and good fats. This diet made me crave sweets very bad.
I have to say with all this in mind Belles idea does sound ledgit. Of course I am also a firm believer that what may work for one person does not necesarily work for another. But it is very ironic that her and I are doing the exact same thing and yet we are both ending with the same results. I would say it is worth a try.
I have also consideredlifting weights in place of my cardio days. Not real sure how I feel about that one. If lifting is also a form of cardio then I would think it would all work hand in hand.
Of course there is also the idea of maybe just doing cardio 2 days a week instead of 3.
My husband is doing the BFL as well and he does not get to do his 2nd cardio through the week. He still manages to lose atleast 2 lbs a week and sometimes 3. This has to count for something. Of course I am sure we can not just do weight lifting and then sit on the couch the rest of the day. But I figure playing soccer or volleyball or just even going for a good walk would still help things.

[Belle]

Well I think there are two things you can assume when your not losing the fat from stubborn areas. You can either assume that your doing too much or not doing enough. I have tried for weeks to get my head around this and I could not believe that I was doing too much---and assumed it HAD to be because I was not doing enough activity. So I did more cardio. My personal trainer actually said to me, just do the 3 days at 20 minutes high intesnity, but if you want to do more, then go for it. So I introduced a session of 30 minutes at low intensity to my BFL schedule and this made no difference. In fact I firmly believe now that it was probably hampering the growth and repair of muscles to be honest as doing lot's of cardio means taking your body into catabolism and muscles cannot grow or repair in that environment. It would be like doing a ketogenic diet in a sense because your depriving your body of carbs that would be better used to help with muscle repair.

I mean we are told time and time again to rest and let the body repair, but then expected to do cardio also. I genuinly think that I am putting my body under too much stress to allow the muscle to gorw and repair half the time when I am doing it. It's like building muscle one day and then hammer it the next with cardio. They are both opposites and I don't really thing they fit.

I have never done weight watchers but 3 years ago after my fourth child I did cardio for 12 weeks and diet and lost weight over 12 weeks. This time I have done BOTH weight training/cardio and diet and my body won't let it go. I therefore think that when you do both, your really putting not just stress on your body with weights, but stressing it with cardio too and cortisol levels must be through the roof!

The only thing I have not done in the last 12 weeks is rest up and slow off a little, and the instant that I do she gives up a pound of fat....so I just studied it a little more and when I read your post there, it kind of made me think because most of the big guys and fit guys down at the gym do not do anymore than 5 mins cardio and that is just a warm up. One guy started at the same time as me and just does weights and he has dropped loads! The only cardio he does is on the weekends pig hunting. Makes me sick! *stamps foot!* LOL!!!!

[tone-n-up]

Before I started the BFL I was working with a weight trainer with lifting weights and doing about 3 hrs of cardio in a week. Litterlay. I must say it did help in the beginning as I was still struggling with what to eat. So I believe this was ok. But after nearly 3 months I was getting frustrated because I felt I should of had more tone then I did. That is when I came across the BFL program. Withing the first week, my body started to tone up. I could actually see more definition. So I figured yeah I was doing to much cardio. Now I have reached this sppot again. I noticed that when I lift weights the definition is there. But then after doing a run, it seems like I have lost some. You have me so looking forward to seeing even my own results next week. I am going to give this concept a try as well. It would be great if this is my answer to getting even more closer to where I want to be. Mind you I have now been on the BFL program for 80 days. I am nearly though my first 12 weeks. Of course I say first because you know I am not stopping now no way.

[Belle]

I was thinking before where better to look thanwhere the guys have written articles about how you can overdo these things and I just thought that I would post this link to an article one of them wrote. I was in stitches therefore when I read your comments about doing weights and then sitting on the couch all day because it seems that this guy got results from doing just that! LOL!!!!

Here we go:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=73129

[tone-n-up]

yes that was rather interesting. I miht also add that up until about 5 yrs ago I used to work as a CNA (certified nurses aid). I was in such great shape and never had to worry about what i was eating. Of course I could not benge out on a bucket of ice cram and eat a bunch of candy, you know what I mean.
I was lifting people from their beds, wheel chairs and toilets 5 days a week. Of course these were elderly people being unable to move themselves in someway or another. I always focused on proper lifting as to not hurt myself. I also new that it was giving me a great workout as well. I do not really do any big cardio. I just went from room to room lifting. Maybe I will do some research on this Mentzer guy.

[Belle]

Great minds think alike! I looked him up last night and apparently his philosophy was kind of a neat one. Workout for a couple of minutes BIG TIME and then get the hell out of the gym and repair for a whole week. To look at the guy, it amuses the hell out of me. He is BIG! (Or was big, has passed away now).

So it rather stomps all over the philosophy that MORE is better to my mind--especially the cardio stuff. Rather put's it in perspective for me. I mean if I want a little cardio I can do that in my workout by doing the circuit! My feelings are that initially I wanted to be at the gym so much to get my "money's worth" out of my membership and made the fatal mistake of basically "living there" when my kids wern't here and at school. It had to be no good for repair. I mean I did my weights in the evening and just as my body went into repair-anabolic-mode and started to get somewhere growth wise possibly--I'd hammer it with cardio in the morning on an empty stomach (which has got to be EVEN worse!), soak up all the carbs there were left from the night before leaving me catabolic for hours---not much repair going on there. Then 24 hours later back to the gym to do yet MORE damage and then hammer that the day after with some cardio. LOL!!!

Don't know about you but the more I think and read, the less I like the cardio where building mass is concerned.

[tone-n-up]

I went all over the net last night as well researching Mikes concept of weight training. I must say, at first I was all over it. I am now thinking that I am going to keep the BFL routine I am doing but cut back on my cardio. I am to scared to just jump right in and only do Mikes routine. I am scared of losing what I do have for muscles. I think that BFL is allot the same as Mikes routine. It is just that the BFL adds a little extra. I was thinking I will run to the book store today to get one of mikes new books. Or atleats look in to it. Also I am actually suppose to do my 20 min cardio.... I am not going. This is really mentaly hard for me. I feel like I am doing a bad thing. I am so used to my routine that this is really weird. I will see on Sat how this works. Only 2 days away.....
You were really doing some extensive training. I do not know that I could be as commited as that ever. Even I need a little down time or maybe even "me" time. :-)
I would really like it if you would stay in touch with me to let me know how things work for you as I will do the same if you like.

[Belle]

I want to continue my workouts because I don't for one minute think that x1 8-12 minute workout every 5-7 days will help with fat loss.

At the same time, I don't think that cardio is a good thing (for me anyway) when I eat like a bird. I cannot even fit fist sized portions down on a 2-3 hourly basis anyway. I DO want to eat that regularly, but I only want to eat to enjoy it and not to get "x" amount of protein and carbs down. To me if I cut the portions back a little less than fist sized and just miss the cardio, and really go heavy on the workouts, I feel I will progress.

I am very happy with my progress this week. I have lost 1-2 lbs it seems according to the scales. That is more or less an indicator to me that what I am doing with my eating and workouts is enough.

I would not feel bad about trying different things for you either. For all we know what we have been doing for the last 8 weeks or so could have been wrong for us personally. I am for the best part an active mum of five so I don't think I need cardio. What you were doing could have been too much for you to make gains and lose also. It is just as bad to do TOO much as what it is to not do enough really. All your doing is trying to tweak things.

[tone-n-up]

so are your results this week based on the no cardio concept?

[Belle]

That's right, I haven't done no cardio this week and followed BFL diet, but I gave myself slightly smaller portions in the carbs. The protein have been fist sized. x2 of the x6 meals have been protein/carb shakes with citrimax--fat mobilisers and I added flax/safflower oil in and some peanut butter. I have took x2 tablespoonsfuls per day of flax which is supposed to step up your thermogenic reaction--raises body temp. I can say it has done that. Then I have 1 tablespoon of grapeseed oil to my meals of no more than 1 tablespoon per day--like in salad dressings.

All I have done so far is weights twice and I have my lower body workout tomorrow and that is me done for the week. If I HAVE to do cardio, I will tack it on the back of my weights rather than do it the following day. That way it is done and dusted and I have two full days to repair. I will only do 15 minutes also because I will already be in a catabolic state just after lifting.