Westside For Skinny Viking Bastards

[DCR2489]

Does anyone else lifting on this type of program have trouble sticking with it becuase thinking about your next ME workout drives you insane. I was aiming for 135x5 today on bench, but i only got 135x4, and now i can't think about anything except like, maybe i could have tried a little harder, maybe my nutrition could have been better, and i think im gonna die before i even make it to the next ME workout. ANyone have tips on how to become more patient between the workouts?

[VikingMan]

Does anyone else lifting on this type of program have trouble sticking with it becuase thinking about your next ME workout drives you insane. I was aiming for 135x5 today on bench, but i only got 135x4, and now i can't think about anything except like, maybe i could have tried a little harder, maybe my nutrition could have been better, and i think im gonna die before i even make it to the next ME workout. ANyone have tips on how to become more patient between the workouts?

Had you ever benched 135 for 4 reps before? If not, then it was a PR and a relatively successful lift.

If I fail a lift, and I certainly have, I try to analyze why it happened. Maybe it was diet, maybe it was sleep, maybe it was a form problem, whatever. And I think about what I'm going to do to fix the problem. What does the solution look like? I store that away in my mind for my next max effort session with that lift, because my next session is going to be a max effort squat or deadlift. That is going to require a tremendous amount of mental focus and effort. You don't have time to stew over failures in the past. Simply learn something from it, and move on.

[Serpens Aeon]

ANyone have tips on how to become more patient between the workouts?

Vispassana Buddhism? Meditation is quite an effective tool for accessing mental states, although it takes quite a while to develop the skill, as it requires a great deal of focus.

If I were you I'd attempt to use that inner-fire constructively. Don't let it control you, and figure out a way to harness it so that you consistently hit PRs. How you do this is up to you, but you'd be surprised at how easy it is to trick the mind.

And as an aside, I tend to find that I hit my ME goals more often depending on how low my reps are; it appears that the higher the repetition goal, the less chance I have of achieving a projected lift.

[randomhero97]

For the supplemental triceps on repetition upper body day could straight bar dips be used to hit the tri's? Dips are the only thing that puts mass on my tri's.

[yabbayabba]

Today I put two and two to realize that GHR is glute ham raise. My gym is blessed with three hyper extension racks, so I can use the same rack to do both hypers and GHRs. Thursday I'm going to do my last deload day of 5x5 and give this a whirl on Monday.

[Khryz]

For the supplemental triceps on repetition upper body day could straight bar dips be used to hit the tri's? Dips are the only thing that puts mass on my tri's.

Dips are fine. Remember, the beauty of a Westside program is it's flexibility to be customized by the individuals needs. A cookie-cutter won't be optimal for 2 different trainees. If you know something that works for you, throw it into the program.

[DCR2489]

Had you ever benched 135 for 4 reps before? If not, then it was a PR and a relatively successful lift.

If I fail a lift, and I certainly have, I try to analyze why it happened. Maybe it was diet, maybe it was sleep, maybe it was a form problem, whatever. And I think about what I'm going to do to fix the problem. What does the solution look like? I store that away in my mind for my next max effort session with that lift, because my next session is going to be a max effort squat or deadlift. That is going to require a tremendous amount of mental focus and effort. You don't have time to stew over failures in the past. Simply learn something from it, and move on.

ACtually come to think of it this is the first time i've ever benched 135 for 4 reps before. (i found out the bar i had been using at my gym weighs only 35 pounds and that the other one is 45 pounds) I guess i shouldnt feel too down on myself, but when i set a goal (bench 135 for 5 reps) and i come up short, even if it is an improvement or a pr, i easily feel bad and come down on myself. I guess this is why i've had trouble stickign to strength programs in the past, but as you can see, i really need the strength work

[Khryz]

Bumped for all the 'skinny viking bastards' ..

[MISSINGLINK]

This Should Stay On The Front Page At All Times

[Ravish]

What weight should you start with when you first start this routine? I'm a little confused...are you supposed to be attempting PRs for every workout? Lets use this as an example then maybe someone (hopefully Viking ) can explain...

My 5RM for Bench Press is 65kg, now say I am going to start this routine on Monday (with Bench press being my ME lift), what weight should I use in my first session? And then next week how much weight should I aim for then? Do I start off at lower weight like say 55kg and add 2.5kg every workout till I reach failure?

Also what about the supplemental lifts, should you aim for setting PRs in them as well?

[VikingMan]

What weight should you start with when you first start this routine? I'm a little confused...are you supposed to be attempting PRs for every workout? Lets use this as an example then maybe someone (hopefully Viking ) can explain...

My 5RM for Bench Press is 65kg, now say I am going to start this routine on Monday (with Bench press being my ME lift), what weight should I use in my first session? And then next week how much weight should I aim for then? Do I start off at lower weight like say 55kg and add 2.5kg every workout till I reach failure?

Also what about the supplemental lifts, should you aim for setting PRs in them as well?

PRs on everything, as often as possible. This program comes from the point of view that if you want to get bigger, you are going to have to get stronger. You get strong by pushing your limits, and eating enough for muscle development.

If your 5RM on bench press is 65KG, and you start on Monday, here's what I would do. You have one of two choices.

1. Go for a PR on Monday. Depending on what your training has looked like over the past few weeks, you may just get it.

2. Do a small amount of wave loading in your approach to setting PRs on primary movements. Here's what I mean. Let's say my 5RM on flat bench press is 200LBS. I'm about to start WS4SB. My first workout, My max attempt might be 195 X 5. The following max effort upper day, my max attempt would actually be a PR attempt of 205 X 5. So the first week is a submaximal poundage, the second week is a PR attempt. The third week, shoot for 210, or switch lifts if you feel you might not have gotten it.

As far as all the other work you do. You don't have to set a PR on everything, in every session, but I would plan on trying to set at least 1 or 2 PRs somewhere. On a really good day, I'll set 3. When I say plan, I mean that literally. I sit down and map out about 4 weeks in advance roughly what my sessions are going to look like. The PRs I want to set, the lifts I'm going to use, set/rep structures, etc. Now that plan get's modified on the fly quite regularly as I make a new PR too easy, or miss a lift and things need to adjust for this, but make a plan all the same.

[Phenom01]

So if i bench 200x5 on me monday than my next me upper body will be 205x5 and my third me upper body will be 210x5? Also lets say i hit 200x5 on my first me upper body and on my second me upper body i cant get the 205x5 up. Do i switch to another exercise?

[thesecondrei]

Instead of monday,wednesday, friday monday, can I do Monday, tuesday, wednesday off, thursday, and friday?

[Phenom01]

Instead of monday,wednesday, friday monday, can I do Monday, tuesday, wednesday off, thursday, and friday?

no. The reason you do mon, wed, fri and mon is because it equals to one cycle. So you do 4 workouts which equals one cycle.

[VikingMan]

So if i bench 200x5 on me monday than my next me upper body will be 205x5 and my third me upper body will be 210x5? Also lets say i hit 200x5 on my first me upper body and on my second me upper body i cant get the 205x5 up. Do i switch to another exercise?

If you fail a Max Effort lift, yes, time to switch to another lift.

There's no hard and fast rule about how much weight you should add for a PR attempt, but 2.5% or so is a good rule of thumb. So for a 200LB bench, that's going to equal 5LBS. For a 400LB lift, it would equal 10. Though, if you only bench 100, I would still stick to 5LB increments if you can swing it. Otherwise, might want to get some micro plates.

[thesecondrei]

How about monday, wednesday, friday, sunday ?

[VikingMan]

Instead of monday,wednesday, friday monday, can I do Monday, tuesday, wednesday off, thursday, and friday?

Sorry Phenom, but yeah, you can do that. That is a very typical way of setting up an Upper Lower split, which is all Westside is when you get right down to it. Though it's worth noting that doing Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri means you'll have a ME Upper right next to a ME lower. It comes down to how you perform after a few weeks. If you find you are not able to continue setting PRs somewhere, then you might want to schedule the sessions so you have at least a day inbetween each one.

A better way of scheduling them if you want to do 4 a week would be something like this.

Monday Max Effort Upper Body
Wednesday Max Effort Lower Body (Deadlift emphasis)
Friday Repetition Effort Upper Body
Saturday Max Effort Lower Body (Squat emphasis)

This gives you Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday off.

[thesecondrei]

Sorry Phenom, but yeah, you can do that. That is a very typical way of setting up an Upper Lower split, which is all Westside is when you get right down to it. Though it's worth noting that doing Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri means you'll have a ME Upper right next to a ME lower. It comes down to how you perform after a few weeks. If you find you are not able to continue setting PRs somewhere, then you might want to schedule the sessions so you have at least a day inbetween each one.

A better way of scheduling them if you want to do 4 a week would be something like this.

Monday Max Effort Upper Body
Wednesday Max Effort Lower Body (Deadlift emphasis)
Friday Repetition Effort Upper Body
Saturday Max Effort Lower Body (Squat emphasis)

This gives you Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday off.

Thank you kind sir

[VikingMan]

Another quick note on this program guys. Your performance on this program will depend in large part on your conditioning. If you are in good cardiovascular shape, you'll do well, if you are not, your performance will suffer because of it. So, give this thread a read for some idea on things you can do for conditioning besides treadmills and elipticals.

The Official GPP Thread

[Mr White]

Hey vikingman. Just checked out some of your vids on youtube. Great raw lifts but whats with the belly?

[VikingMan]

Hey vikingman. Just checked out some of your vids on youtube. Great raw lifts but whats with the belly?

Did you ever hear me say I was a bodybuilder?

Na, you're right. It's an issue I'm going to address, even if I do only plan on competing in powerlifting comps.

[kethnaab]

a larger midsection allows for better power transfer and stability between upper and lower body.

there's a reason every deadlifter and especially squatter worth his salt has a big midsection.

[VikingMan]

a larger midsection allows for better power transfer and stability between upper and lower body.

there's a reason every deadlifter and especially squatter worth his salt has a big midsection.

True, though I could still do with loosing 20LBS or so.

[mjw8204]

Did you ever hear me say I was a bodybuilder?

Na, you're right. It's an issue I'm going to address, even if I do only plan on competing in powerlifting comps.

I don't know, Vike. I think the belly is rather endearing. It's part of your charm.

[VikingMan]

I don't know, Vike. I think the belly is rather endearing. It's part of your charm.

Okay, I really don't know how to take that....

[romo]

Would this be a wise program to follow after Ripptoe?

[mjw8204]

Would this be a wise program to follow after Ripptoe?

It could be, provided you've actually learned something from Rip's program. Programs that give you a considerable amount of freedom (as this particular template does) are only optimal if you know what to do with that freedom. The problem with letting newcomers get a hold of a program like this without someone holding their hand is that they really don't know how to set up a routine because they lack an understanding of the variables they will need to manipulate - hence, some of the questions you've seen people ask in this thread. Sure, someone can pretty much lay out a routine for you to get started with, but what happens when it comes time to change things around? Will you have a good idea of what you should do, or will someone have to lay out it for you again? That's why I think it's better for lifters at the beginner, and even some at the intermediate level, to follow cookie cutter templates and allow themselves the time to learn how they respond to and recover from varying amounts of volume, frequency, and intensity in their training.

[VikingMan]

It could be, provided you've actually learned something from Rip's program. Programs that give you a considerable amount of freedom (as this particular template does) are only optimal if you know what to do with that freedom. The problem with letting newcomers get a hold of a program like this without someone holding their hand is that they really don't know how to set up a routine because they lack an understanding of the variables they will need to manipulate - hence, some of the questions you've seen people ask in this thread. Sure, someone can pretty much lay out a routine for you to get started with, but what happens when it comes time to change things around? Will you have a good idea of what you should do, or will someone have to lay out it for you again? That's why I think it's better for lifters at the beginner, and even some at the intermediate level, to follow cookie cutter templates and allow themselves the time to learn how they respond to and recover from varying amounts of volume, frequency, and intensity in their training.

Wise words, and something I probably should have addressed in more detail in the original post.

Westside can be the best thing for you, or the worst. All depends on you running it correctly due to the liberty inherent to the program. So, start reading as much material about Westside as you can, start following some Westside journals, watch other people's results on Westside, what works and what doesn't(like me trying to get stronger at the bench but failing miserably because I was stupid and didn't know how to bench properly), and go from there.

[mjw8204]

Wise words, and something I probably should have addressed in more detail in the original post.

Westside can be the best thing for you, or the worst. All depends on you running it correctly due to the liberty inherent to the program. So, start reading as much material about Westside as you can, start following some Westside journals, watch other people's results on Westside, what works and what doesn't(like me trying to get stronger at the bench but failing miserably because I was stupid and didn't know how to bench properly), and go from there.

Also, learn from your own experience. So many people go to the gym and just go through the motions without understanding how or why things work the way they do. Unless you're gifted with great genetics, you're going to get so far training this way. I'll use Rippetoe's program again as an example since I can draw from my own experiences. For all intents and purposes, Rip's program should be THE easiest program for people to understand and follow. It was set up so that a retarded, crack baby chimp could understand it. Yet, look at how many ridiculous questions are being asked about this program every single day. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that people in general are growing increasingly dumb, but I think it also has to do with the fact that people look at it as a "routine" to follow rather than a set of principles to understand. Any time you think of a workout program as simply a "routine" you probably aren't going to learn much from it...and why would you? If you can't even comprehend the purpose of why you are doing something, how can you be expected to later apply anything you were supposed to learn? A person that had problems wrapping their head around Rippetoe's program, and have made little or no effort to correct this during thier training, probably will not fare well on a program such as the one Viking laid out here.

[VikingMan]

Good point. It's a shift of the common bodybuilder mentality of having a routine to mindlessly run, as opposed to becoming a student of why the body responds to training by getting bigger and stroner, and what kinds of training structure will get you to where you want to go.

It's the reason I think everyone should run 5X5 at least once in their lifting career. Well ordered, stuctured programming, core lifts. At least some of the guys who run 5X5 get the point of the program. It wasn't just to make them huge, it was in large part to teach them about what a well structured program looks like, about how to map out progression, about the importance of the core lifts, that if you aren't getting stronger, your progress will probably fall flat on it's face.