Sums up my opinion on God, with respect to Christianity...

timhsvwalkinsha · 10-01-2006, 10:23 AM

If God really chooses to damn people for eternity because they don't kiss his ass/believe in him (and one might argue, didn't set up the proper biological and environmental conditions that would eventually lead said people to come to the conclusion that he exists) then he's not a God I care to worship.

IraHays · 10-01-2006, 10:27 AM

Profound.

jake24 · 10-01-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhsvwalkinsha

If God really chooses to damn people for eternity because they don't kiss his ass/believe in him (and one might argue, didn't set up the proper biological and environmental conditions that would eventually lead said people to come to the conclusion that he exists) then he's not a God I care to worship.

Sadly you have the wrong view of god....He dosent choose to damn people thats the last thing he wants he is not willing that any should perish...But he is a holy god who cant be around sin and he is to just to overlook our sins....Thats why jesus christ died shedd his blood on the cross arose from the dead to defeat death..The blood of christ is our sin offering the blood paid the penalty of our sins..And humans have the choice to repent of there sins and trust in christ and be reconciled back to god or reject him and be required to pay the penalty of sins themselves in hell (so god dosent damn anyone people that choose to reject him choose damnation for themselves)..Hell is for lawbreakers and unrepentant sinners..Lawbreakers are those who have broken gods laws (the 10 commandments thats gods moral law).

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 11:42 AM

hello friend I am a Muslim, as far as i have understood your question, you mean that GOD will punish even those to whom his message was not delievered. I dont know about Christianity but according to Islam, if the message of GOD is not delievered to a person who does not has the resources (environmental and biological etc) to undertand the concept of GOD all by himself, that person will not be punished. But if a person has mental and physical ability to understand concept of GOD (also the message is delievered to him) and even than he doesnot try to understand, than he will be punished, if he tries but he doesnot understand than remember GOD is just and doesnot punish those who tried by heart. My explanation might be confusing if you wnat further information just post it here.

saloman · 10-01-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

hello friend I am a Muslim, as far as i have understood your question, you mean that GOD will punish even those to whom his message was not delievered. I dont know about Christianity but according to Islam, if the message of GOD is not delievered to a person who does not has the resources (environmental and biological etc) to undertand the concept of GOD all by himself, that person will not be punished. But if a person has mental and physical ability to understand concept of GOD (also the message is delievered to him) and even than he doesnot try to understand, than he will be punished, if he tries but he doesnot understand than remember GOD is just and doesnot punish those who tried by heart. My explanation might be confusing if you wnat further information just post it here.

That is consistent with Christian teaching as well.

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 11:53 AM

hello jake, according to you Christ (PBUH) (peace be upon him) died for the sins of those who believe in christianity so that means whatever christians do, they will not be punished by GOD. so according to you GOD in not JUST. He allows christians to do anything they want as long as they believe in christianity.
This is same as if a master tells his slaves to do anything they want (but serve him as well) and he will forgive them by killing his own son. does that sound just to u. Just think about it logically. i dont wnat to hurt your feelings but i just want u to think logically about it.

saloman · 10-01-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

hello jake, according to you Christ (PBUH) (peace be upon him) died for the sins of those who believe in christianity so that means whatever christians do, they will not be punished by GOD. so according to you GOD in not JUST. He allows christians to do anything they want as long as they believe in christianity.
This is same as if a master tells his slaves to do anything they want (but serve him as well) and he will forgive them by killing his own son. does that sound just to u. Just think about it logically. i dont wnat to hurt your feelings but i just want u to think logically about it.

That is not christian teaching - at least not catholic.
We believe that sins must be repented for, and those who die in a state of mortal sins will suffer hell for eternity. In this sense, I believe our two faiths have much common ground.

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:17 PM

hello salomen, i have just seen a christian missionary on tv saying that christians will not be punished and he even said that true christian dont do sins. well it is as if christians are angels. even if i believe in this theory, than i suppose that there are almost no christian in this world because i know that alchohol is prohibited in christianity yet almost every christian drinks alchohol.
maybe the guy on tv was not catholic and we do have common things in our faith

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:19 PM

maybe we can discuss our faiths a little more if u want to give me ur email address or if u want mine just reply.

saloman · 10-01-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

hello salomen, i have just seen a christian missionary on tv saying that christians will not be punished and he even said that true christian dont do sins. well it is as if christians are angels. even if i believe in this theory, than i suppose that there are almost no christian in this world because i know that alchohol is prohibited in christianity yet almost every christian drinks alchohol.
maybe the guy on tv was not catholic and we do have common things in our faith

Alcohol isn't prohibited in Christianity, that's clearly untrue as Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding at cana for example.

The errors many protestants run into when trying to figure out and teach what is christian is quite scandelous to those seeking to understand the faith. My recommendation to you is to read up on what the early church believed by reading the writings of the church fathers www.newadvent.org/fathers/ for example and you will see just how catholic they were. We (catholics) still teach what we've always taught since 33AD, and what you heard from that missionary isn't christian teaching, but rather christian confusion.

saloman · 10-01-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

maybe we can discuss our faiths a little more if u want to give me ur email address or if u want mine just reply.

I'd love too; i'll pm my email address to you

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:24 PM

thanks man

BigGameJames · 10-01-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

hello salomen, i have just seen a christian missionary on tv saying that christians will not be punished and he even said that true christian dont do sins. well it is as if christians are angels. even if i believe in this theory, than i suppose that there are almost no christian in this world because i know that alchohol is prohibited in christianity yet almost every christian drinks alchohol.
maybe the guy on tv was not catholic and we do have common things in our faith

Christians do sin. Everyone sins. It's our nature. But we are redeemed because of Jesus.

Alcohol is not prohibited by christianity. It's not a sin. It becomes a sin when it controls you. Jesus first recorded miracle (or one of the first) is turning water into wine at a wedding.

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:26 PM

i took alchohol as an example (tha guy on tv just said it man)i meant to say that christians do commit sins thats it. i m sorry if i hurt u.

B_Master_Flash · 10-01-2006, 12:32 PM

I don't think he was talking about people that haven't heard the word of christianity, which he obviously has, he's talking about the people that have heard of christianity but don't believe in it because it doesn't make sense to them. Kinda like the reason christians don't believe in islam, they've heard the word of it, but they choose not to believe it for various reasons. Why should they go to hell? And for christians, why should muslims that have spent their lives dedicated to god go to hell, simply because they chose the "wrong" religion?

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:32 PM

hello james, there is no concept like that in islam. it says that no body will pay for others sins it is unjust for GOD to punish somebody else (in this case Jesus (PBUH)).

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:39 PM

hello flash, in this scenario no one will turn to islam or christianity.for those to whom GOD has given wisdom to understand the truth it is their duty to try and understand it. i someone tries and fails it is a different case but if someone doesnot even tries and gives excuse that i am christian because my parents are christian than that man will be punished. if we can work for 8 hours or more in a day to earn money to make this life good than we atleast try to give some time to understand the truth and make afterlife better.

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:42 PM

according to Islam GOD has given every man free will to either accept the truth or reject it. so it is upto us. may be next time if u fail in examination try to give excuse that "i read the book u perscribed but i didnot like it thats why i didnot gave answers to your questions"

B_Master_Flash · 10-01-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

hello flash, in this scenario no one will turn to islam or christianity.for those to whom GOD has given wisdom to understand the truth it is their duty to try and understand it. i someone tries and fails it is a different case but if someone doesnot even tries and gives excuse that i am christian because my parents are christian than that man will be punished. if we can work for 8 hours or more in a day to earn money to make this life good than we atleast try to give some time to understand the truth and make afterlife better.

Ok i see what you're saying, but what I don't undertsand is what happens to the people that make a genuine attempt to find god but are lead to the wrong path, from your point of view I guess that would mostly be christians and jews. They made an attempt to find god, should they be punished for unknowingly choosing the wrong religion?

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:46 PM

let me give another example. suppose a person comes to me and says he is my father and proving it with DNA test and other scientific and logical tests and i keep on declining him because i dont wnat him to be my father. that will not change the fact.

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:49 PM

if they dont have knowledge about islam or the knowledge provided to them was wrong than its a different case but if they have good knowledge of Islam (or in this case christianity) and still reject it even after knowing the knowledge is true than they wll be punished

ambetious · 10-01-2006, 12:54 PM

hey flash just going to sign out if u want further information just pm me man. i will really appreciate it. thanks for conversation every one.

jake24 · 10-01-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambetious

hello jake, according to you Christ (PBUH) (peace be upon him) died for the sins of those who believe in christianity so that means whatever christians do, they will not be punished by GOD. so according to you GOD in not JUST. He allows christians to do anything they want as long as they believe in christianity.
This is same as if a master tells his slaves to do anything they want (but serve him as well) and he will forgive them by killing his own son. does that sound just to u. Just think about it logically. i dont wnat to hurt your feelings but i just want u to think logically about it.

Hello ambetious...God dosent allow christians to get away with sin at all he chastises those that sin for there correction there is a just recompense for every deed whether it be good or evil..God is so just that he will not let any sin go unpunished and those who have broken his holy law (the 10 commandments) are under his wrath have you broken any of the commandments?...But the blood of christ paid the penalty of sin in full...After one repents of sin and trust in christ he is reconciled to god and is born again of the spirit of god...Our carnal nature is prone to sin that nature is dead toward god and when one is born again that new nature is born of god and dosent sin..Thats why jesus said unless one is born again he will never enter the kingdom of heavan.