bigger guy with no experience against a smaller black belt

joe45 · 09-25-2006, 01:19 PM

Lets say your in the streets and some guy is harassing u and ur 5 7 150lbs in ur 20's guy and lets say u have a black belt and the guy ur fighting is a 5 10 maybe around 170lbs with no martial arts experience from what u see, do u guys think the black belt guy can take the 5 10 guy. yes or no
how effective is a black belt- be it 2nd degree or just a black belt against a guy who is bigger than u -but with no martial arts experinece or very little.
which martial art would be most effective against a bigger guy

Sims · 09-25-2006, 01:20 PM

is this "black belt" magical just like in pootytang?

IronMan316 · 09-25-2006, 01:22 PM

I dont think 20lbs and a few inches would give somebody any great advantage fighting a black belt

Mike7900 · 09-25-2006, 02:02 PM

A lot has to do with what the black belt is in, and how good a street fighter the other guy is. Experience can trump training.

cgc · 09-25-2006, 02:07 PM

It's a black belt in Dim Mak and they know the "death touch"....

bigger guys has NO chance.

HardGainer82 · 09-25-2006, 02:28 PM

That's not really very much bigger. I think it'd take more than 2 inches and 20 pounds to counteract a black belt. The fact that you're so specific makes me think you're referencing a real situation. Are you the bigger guy? lol

greekgeek · 09-25-2006, 02:36 PM

Give me Tong-Po

wanaBsedated · 09-25-2006, 02:37 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_RnvaBMlNpI

bjjwraslter7 · 09-25-2006, 02:39 PM

You act like without the blackbelt the bigger guy is garunteed the win, but with the blackbelt MAYBE the smaller guy has a chance. Like said, 2 inches and 20lb is not a significant size advantage. The smaller guy doesn't need a black belt to win, just a pair of balls.

Regardless there isn't enough information to give any kind of prediction.

Black belt in what?
One guy is taller and heavier...whos stronger? I know plenty of people with several inchs and 30lb on me that can't lift ****.
Whos quicker?
Whos more agressive/crazy?
Are either of them athletic? Play sports?
Which ones been in more real fights?

Too many unkown variables...but my moneys on the black belt.

jannek · 09-25-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanaBsedated

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_RnvaBMlNpI

ahaa black belt dude was very lucky....its good to be big

JJJJ4 · 09-25-2006, 03:39 PM

The size difference you provided wouldnt even make that much of a difference if they were on the same skill level. Anyways, look at Royce Grace vs Kimo. Kimo was 75lb bigger AND a black belt. Royce still beat him.

bjjwraslter7 · 09-25-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

ahaa black belt dude was very lucky....its good to be big

How was he lucky? He dominated that fight despite being on his back. Not only could he have broken the dudes arm the dude also walked away bloodied.

AUSTINSCOBRA · 09-25-2006, 05:18 PM

black belt on breaking bricks with no experience in fighting gets owned by a regular guy with killer instinct.

lolerskatez · 09-25-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

ahaa black belt dude was very lucky....its good to be big

I know this is a bodybuilding forum, but being big is nothing when it comes to fighting. Ofcourse guys of equal skill, size and strength will be a deciding factor.
Size and strength can take someone so far but not all the way vs a skilled opponent.

Tae Kwon Do black belt takes anyone regardless of size.

jannek · 09-25-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjwraslter7

How was he lucky? He dominated that fight despite being on his back. Not only could he have broken the dudes arm the dude also walked away bloodied.

how did he dominate the fight?? he was onj the ground and getting punched in the face if it wasnt for that arm bar he would of been beaten unconsious

MilitaryMan · 09-25-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

how did he dominate the fight?? he was onj the ground and getting punched in the face if it wasnt for that arm bar he would of been beaten unconsious

please go kill yourself.

cgc · 09-25-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

how did he dominate the fight?? he was onj the ground and getting punched in the face if it wasnt for that arm bar he would of been beaten unconsious

LOL....

Kane Fan · 09-25-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJJJ4

The size difference you provided wouldnt even make that much of a difference if they were on the same skill level. Anyways, look at Royce Grace vs Kimo. Kimo was 75lb bigger AND a black belt. Royce still beat him.

yes but Royce did kick him in the balls before he got the takedown
and had to be half carried away from the octagon

HardGainer82 · 09-26-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane Fan

yes but Royce did kick him in the balls before he got the takedown
and had to be half carried away from the octagon

He also held him by the hair and punched him in the face for over a minute...

HardGainer82 · 09-26-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

how did he dominate the fight?? he was onj the ground and getting punched in the face if it wasnt for that arm bar he would of been beaten unconsious

Baahahaha what fight were you watching? That guy didn't land a single clean punch on the ground.

TheRoadWarrior · 09-26-2006, 10:42 AM

You can find the answer yourself by watching Royce Gracie's early UFC fights where weight classes/divisions didn't exist. He beat everyone, regardless of their size and some people were alot heavier and taller as well. Obviously someone who trains their entire life and is a "black belt" is going to beat the crap out of someone who has no training in most cases.

Boruta · 09-26-2006, 12:16 PM

My old coach is 5'5" 145lbs and is a brown belt in BJJ. I'd say after about 2-3 years of hard training he will be a black belt.

He can easily dominate guys that are 6' 230lbs.

My current coach is 5'9" 170lbs and is a black belt in BJJ.

For an untrained guy to dominate him, he would have to be a monster, I'm talkin' NFL lineman sized guy. Even then, I bet my coach would take his back and choke him.

dbbass · 09-26-2006, 01:34 PM

This is a very open statement and without a fuller discription anything could happen. Someone that is trained in fighting is giong to have an advantage. So you would think he would win. You have to keep in mind that the surroundings and luck chance is out there. If the big gun hit him in the throat it would be over. So its just how ya look at it.

bjjwraslter7 · 09-26-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

how did he dominate the fight?? he was onj the ground and getting punched in the face if it wasnt for that arm bar he would of been beaten unconsious

Let's see...he landed all the strikes, did more damage, controled the pace of the fight, was more agressive, was in control the entire time (including on bottom), submitted him with an armbar that would have otherwise broken his arm...

As for the bodybuilder he did absolutly nothing.

I don't understand how you can not see that he dominated that fight. I mean they even gave you slow motion replays what more do you need?

You have proven your lack of knowledge...you may leave the mma section now.

basement iron · 09-26-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jannek

ahaa black belt dude was very lucky....its good to be big

He wasn't lucky he just demonstrated proper technique.

DarinK · 09-26-2006, 03:39 PM

Let me just say this about the big guy vs small guy thing. To me, their are two different kinds of "big guys". The first is the guy who is just big either naturally or overweight. The second is the big guy who weight trains and is athletic. It's the second guy that I am more concerned about. One thing I have noticed when sparing or rolling with really big strong guys is that even if their skill level is substantially lower than yours, they aren't easy to tap unless they are just totally clueless. I weigh 177 pounds and train with two big guys regularly. One is 240 and muscular. The other is 280 and a mix of muscularity and fat. He is kinda built like Mighty Mo, or Mark Hunt. Both bench over 365 pounds for reps. Even though their skill level is alot lower, I usually have to get these guys tired to tap them. This takes time, maybe 3 or 4 minutes. Their strenth can be initially overwhelming. Also when we put on gloves and spar I have to be very careful until they gas. So relating this to a street situation I have come to the conclusion that because street fights are very fast in duration I would have to be very careful fighting a big athletic guy who really outweighs me. You don't have the option most times to wear a big guy down. So I would probably fight defensively and stay away from a big dudes right hand because I know he can knock me down with one big shot. Anyone who has ever trained with really big dudes know exactly what I'm talking about.

bjjwraslter7 · 09-26-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkf10425

Let me just say this about the big guy vs small guy thing. To me, their are two different kinds of "big guys". The first is the guy who is just big either naturally or overweight. The second is the big guy who weight trains and is athletic. It's the second guy that I am more concerned about. One thing I have noticed when sparing or rolling with really big strong guys is that even if their skill level is substantially lower than yours, they aren't easy to tap unless they are just totally clueless. I weigh 177 pounds and train with two big guys regularly. One is 240 and muscular. The other is 280 and a mix of muscularity and fat. He is kinda built like Mighty Mo, or Mark Hunt. Both bench over 365 pounds for reps. Even though their skill level is alot lower, I usually have to get these guys tired to tap them. This takes time, maybe 3 or 4 minutes. Their strenth can be initially overwhelming. Also when we put on gloves and spar I have to be very careful until they gas. So relating this to a street situation I have come to the conclusion that because street fights are very fast in duration I would have to be very careful fighting a big athletic guy who really outweighs me. You don't have the option most times to wear a big guy down. So I would probably fight defensively and stay away from a big dudes right hand because I know he can knock me down with one big shot. Anyone who has ever trained with really big dudes know exactly what I'm talking about.

The flaw with what you just said is that you are talking about really big really strong guys that ALSO train. You might be better than them technique wise, but they do have some technique and are trained. They know what an armbar is, they know how to throw punchs correctly, they know how to defend takedowns ect. They aren't just some random big guy on the street. A mix of size, strength, AND technique is a pretty deadly combination.

There is a big difference in going against someone who's technique is not as good as yours, and going against someone who has NO technique which is the average guy on the street.

B_Master_Flash · 09-26-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe45

Lets say your in the streets and some guy is harassing u and ur 5 7 150lbs in ur 20's guy and lets say u have a black belt and the guy ur fighting is a 5 10 maybe around 170lbs with no martial arts experience from what u see, do u guys think the black belt guy can take the 5 10 guy. yes or no
how effective is a black belt- be it 2nd degree or just a black belt against a guy who is bigger than u -but with no martial arts experinece or very little.
which martial art would be most effective against a bigger guy

black belt in what?

In general a blackbelt vs sleightly bigger guy with no experience, I'd put my money on the black belt every time

smokeater · 09-26-2006, 07:37 PM

A black belt means very little unless it's a combat martial art. BJJ, Karate, TKD, etc are sports designed for competition where there are lots of rules. Streetfights have no rules. Most techniques that will win you a point or get you a win in a match can get you badly hurt or killed in a real encounter. I have a black belt and MMA experience. I wouldn't trust those skills to protect me, which is why I train Systema and other combat systems.

Size means nothing unless you know how to use it. 2 inches and 20lbs would be a major disadvantage to the average person. They think because they are biggern and stronger that they have an edge. Often bigger guys are sloppy because they look for that one power shot, and in doing that they set themselves up to get trounced by a smaller opponent. 20lbs means nothing unless you start grappling, and 2 inches means nothing unless you know how to strike.

wanaBsedated · 09-26-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokeater

A black belt means very little unless it's a combat martial art. BJJ, Karate, TKD, etc are sports designed for competition where there are lots of rules. Streetfights have no rules. Most techniques that will win you a point or get you a win in a match can get you badly hurt or killed in a real encounter. I have a black belt and MMA experience. I wouldn't trust those skills to protect me, which is why I train Systema and other combat systems.

Size means nothing unless you know how to use it. 2 inches and 20lbs would be a major disadvantage to the average person. They think because they are biggern and stronger that they have an edge. Often bigger guys are sloppy because they look for that one power shot, and in doing that they set themselves up to get trounced by a smaller opponent. 20lbs means nothing unless you start grappling, and 2 inches means nothing unless you know how to strike.

I would rather have BJJ or SAMBO mixed with boxing than ever bother with systema.

Kun Tao is also good.