CoQ10

[Mark1T]

Ok - who takes CoQ10 and why do you take it?

Dr. Rosenfeld said that doctors use it to help Parkinsons patients, and also said that statin drugs deplete it. He is old-school doctor and he recommends this, so that in itself is impressive.

So, this is very interesting and worth discussion. K?

[dbx]

I don't know anything about it really. I saw it as a new "fad" in the supp world, but it seems I recently heard/read that this stuff has no real value? Damn, I can't remember.

[Gunn27]

I take it, it's in my multi-vitamin (and is in most good multi's).

[joed]

M1T, who's Dr. Rosenfeld?

[kimsquit]

from the title of this thread I thought this was a porn discussion

[Mark1T]

Originally Posted by joed

M1T, who's Dr. Rosenfeld?

Sorry, joed. Dr. Rosenfeld is a regular on FOX News every Sunday morning, a professor of medicine at New York Hospital Weil Cornell Medical Center, is widely recognized as one of this country's preeminent doctors.

[Mark1T]

Originally Posted by kimsquit

from the title of this thread I thought this was a porn discussion

Sorry, Chris! LOL

[kmax]

I've been taking 50mg CoQ10 for years. It is supposed to help the Cardio Vascular system, heart, gum health and (I believe) exercise recovery.
And probably more that I can't remember right now.

Every alternative doctor, especially MD's who practice alternative medicine also, that I've ever heard speak, are in favor of taking it.

Yes, the overprescribed Statin drugs reportedly deplete CoQ10, so you
should definitely use it then.

[EMISGOD]

I find it does an excellent job of assisting the cardiovascular system. It is a staple for me...

[dbx]

Originally Posted by EMISGOD

I find it does an excellent job of assisting the cardiovascular system. It is a staple for me...

It "does excellent job assisting the cardiovascular system"? Out of curiousity, how do you measure this?

[Baldsnake]

Natures own statin.

[FittyFour]

CoQ10 - shortened from coenzyme Q10 - is considered a necessary nutrient and is responsible for bioenergetic functions in cells. It is indespensible for cell function and survival.

For those of us who use statins - ie Lipitor, Pravacol, Crestor, Zetia, etc. - we should be supplementing with CoQ10. Statins block certain pathways for the production of cholesterol in the liver. Those same pathways are used to naturally produce CoQ10.

Since I've been on statins for several years, I've been supplementing with 100 mg of CoQ10. Recently, I've upped it to 200 mg to try to mitigate increased muscle pain and cramps when my doc moved me to a high dose of Crestor. It was actually my cardiologist that stressed my adding it as a supplement when he put me on Zocor. (*edited to correct statin name)

It's also being used to try to alleviate the damage caused by an MI (heart attack) when in the acute stages of recovery.

It has been used to alleviate Parkinson's symptoms.

If you decide to supplement with it, buy it in an oil base - usually has a slight amount of Vit E added.

As with anything used for a medicinal purpose - even though CoQ10 is safe to use -- always check with your doc. If you are under chronic care, your healthcare practitioner should always know what supplements you are adding to your diet.

[GREENFEATHER]

I've been taking it for a few years, 30 mgs in the am and 30 more around 1800 hrs.

[kmax]

I'll also add that I have heard one doctor, Dr Richard Ash who practices Allopathic and natural medicine in NYC, say that to NOT tell a patient to take CoQ10 with a statin drug should be considered malpractice.

Remember CoQ10 is a dietary supp and the high and mighty US medical machine does not like to recommend dietary supplements so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

As you can tell I'm not a big fan of Allopathic medicine.

[EMISGOD]

Originally Posted by dbx

It "does excellent job assisting the cardiovascular system"? Out of curiousity, how do you measure this?

There are several ways...one of which is to see how long it takes for you to resume "normal" breathing after high intensity cardio training, another has more to do with recovery and the sensation of your muscles a day PWO for that group. I did some very, very bad things for quite a while before I resumed training and heavy stuff would always make me feel "off" the next day, until I started CoQ10...I have gone off it from time to time and when I do, it's always the same...so I use it to avoid that issue.

[Mark1T]

Most excellent discussion. Please continue contributions if you would like. This may help a few make more informed decisions.

[Hibiscus09]

I've heard of this for a few years, but have not taken it.

I really enjoy listening to Dr. Rosenfeld. Here's his recommendation via "Parade":

A few recommendations

Below are some widely used complementary treatments for which there is good evidence. I recommend them to my own patients:

• For relief of arthritis pain, especially painful knees in women, try glucosamine and chondroitin.

• For chronic back pain not helped by physiotherapy, acupuncture may bring relief. (Worth trying especially if the only alternative is an iffy surgical procedure.)

• To cope with stress, relieve muscle spasms and improve mobility, various relaxation techniques ranging from tai chi to yoga to biofeedback are helpful.

• For nausea, try ginger.

• To strengthen the immune system, there is evidence that garlic may help.

• For weak urine flow in men, taking saw palmetto has proved to be effective.

• For heart health and possibly Parkinson’s, try CoQ10 supplements.

The Mayo Clinic's take on CoQ10:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coe...nt-coenzymeq10

[Mark1T]

Thanks, Hibbles Great contribution.

[FlyingV]

I'll chip in.

CoQ 10 primarily does two things, which account for when/why people take it. It has some other functions too, these are the big ones IMO.

1) It's an antioxidant similar to Vitamin E, which like Vitamin E is very good at protecting cholesterol from oxidation. It's only the oxidized cholesterol that poses a threat to your health, so anyone chasing their TC around should know that that CoQ10 and Vit E are protective and therefore just as/more important than whatever approach they are using to affect the TC itself.

2) It shuttles fatty acids into the mitochondria (the furnace, the generator) of cells,where they are burned for energy. Carnitine does this too. This is a bigger deal than it sounds because fatty acids, while energy-rich, are large unweildy molecules and otherwise labor intensive for the cell to handle.

This is why it's good for the heart. More than any other muscle in your body, the heart's unique requirement to work nonstop requires an energy dense fuel and so the heart does indeed depend on fatty acids for abt 2/3 of its energy. Make the job of burning fatty acids easier, and you make things much easier on the heart muscle.

In terms of the CoQ10 material itself, here's something you might find interesting. Unlike most nutritional supplement raw materials which you can buy at any of a hundred or more sources, CoQ10 has always been made by only one company, then two, and now it looks one again as I'm about to say. A Japanese company patented the technology to make bioidentical CoQ10 thru a fermentation process. They are the only ones who could make this cost-effectivley. And even so, still, it's one on the most expensive raw materials, which accounts for its high price.

A Chinese group began marketing cheaper, 'synthetic', not-quite-bio-identical CoQ 10 raw material years ago. Cheaper, yes, but questionable in terms of effectiveness.
That question has more or less been settled, or at least the conventional wisdom in the industry is now pretty unanimous that it's not as good and so I hear that the Chinese synthetic stuff is going away for good. They are getting out of CoQ10 altogether.

So you may see some cheap CoQ10 in the very near future, I get a few faxes each week with somebody or other 'blowing out CoQ10'. I dont think anyone wants it. I dont think you do, either. If you buy CoQ10, get some assurance that it's the Japanese fermented material.

Finally, dont pay more for absorption enhanced CoQ10. You're just paying more for an already-expesenive product, in this case they add a bit of oil to the softgel. I think there are sublinguals too. Also needlessly expensive. Buy the cheapest Japanese stuff you can find, and just take it with your other oil based supps like fish oil, or a meal with some fat.

[Mark1T]

Excellent info, FlyingV. Repping as many as I could, before they stopped me. I feel like a ho. Will ho some more tomorrow

Ok - just came back from CVS and got 2 bottles of 200mg CoQ10 (CVS brand). They give you a discount of 50% on the second bottle, after you get a card. Simple. Will take 1 per day, after big breakfast.

Found some more valid info on CoQ10 which validates that it is not just a hyped up supplement.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancer_informa...F-D935F1D7BB07

http://www.thecureforheartdisease.com/owen/coq10.htm

[FittyFour]

Originally Posted by dbx

It "does excellent job assisting the cardiovascular system"? Out of curiousity, how do you measure this?

From what I've read, usually via ejection fraction, and VO2 studies on compromised patients.

[thruxton]

Originally Posted by EMISGOD

I find it does an excellent job of assisting the cardiovascular system. It is a staple for me...

about 10 years ago, i was working in cardiovascular icu and to my surprise our "cutting edge" doc prescribed it for a cardiomyopathy patient. maybe for a week...then i never saw it used again. ever. by any heart doc.

(or by any doc for that matter) it may have other uses, but i believe it's cardiac contribution is marketing not science.

[kmax]

Originally Posted by thruxton

about 10 years ago, i was working in cardiovascular icu and to my surprise our "cutting edge" doc prescribed it for a cardiomyopathy patient. maybe for a week...then i never saw it used again. ever. by any heart doc.

(or by any doc for that matter) it may have other uses, but i believe it's cardiac contribution is marketing not science.

Sorry I have to disagree with you Thruxton. Here is one MD, a Cardiologist who believes CoQ10 is so useful he wrote a book about it and still recommends today.
http://www.amazon.com/Coenzyme-Pheno...e=UTF8&s=books

I think most MD's aren't going to suggest their patients take it because it's an OTC supplement.

[EMISGOD]

I can definitely tell/feel the difference when I am taking vs. when I am not and I have tested and re-tested more than enough times to satisfy myself that it is not the placebo effect...

[kmax]

Another Heart Doctor who recommends it to his patients.
http://www.vagnini.com/

[domineaux]

Dr. Perricone on PBS television did one of those fundraisers specials.

He indicated that COQ10 was a important for anyone having congestive heart failure. In fact, he talked about a patient going into hospital to die with CHF and he walked out a while later.

It was particulary interesting to me at that time, because my dad died of CHF and it wasn't a year or so before that.

Personally, I don't take it. Mr. doctor mentioned the things above about there only being one good supplement and that was made in Japan, and it was priced over 100+. It was a waste of money to buy any of the other COQ10 unless they were the Japanese product.

There are supposed to be so many ways the crooks can weasel around not tellling us the truth on drugs. Supplements are not regulated at all, so it's practically impossible to actually know what you're getting, who's making it, etc. That's pretty sad commentary that doctors have no confidence at all in supplements, probably more of the reason they don't include them in their recommended drug therapies.

I'm going to take this a step further. I'm spending a fortune on supplements now, supplements I know I need. My ole lady is probably close to going orbital now, because of what I spend. There is a funny part, I don't take any prescription medications of any kind. Many supplements do come in those little jars like prescription meds. I guess she thinks only sick people take meds, and that's what I'm taking... LOL AND I AIN'T SICK!

[thruxton]

Originally Posted by kmax

Sorry I have to disagree with you Thruxton. Here is one MD, a Cardiologist who believes CoQ10 is so useful he wrote a book about it and still recommends today.
http://www.amazon.com/Coenzyme-Pheno...e=UTF8&s=books

I think most MD's aren't going to suggest their patients take it because it's an OTC supplement.

OK. Sorry if I seem so negative on it guys.

For one thing it's hypocritical. I'll take supps like gackic etc., going by how they "feel" in my body, with just a little research and follow up by me about the data supporting it's function -- simply b/c I just can't do the chemistry/physiology any justice.

Just tell me about two studies showing it as "good stuff" and I'll send you a check.

And there is good OTC stuff out there. For example, when I have a terrible flu or something I will take echinacea for a couple weeks (It sometimes seems to work) and that is never prescribed in the hospitals either =)

So anyway, while I think it is overhyped and would not help improve ejection fraction for CHF patients, for the general public it may be as helpful as dark chocolate and fish oil. I'll have to look into it further.

[kmax]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

[STUPID1]

I take it daily for it's many health benifits which makes me wonder how this discusion got on a body building form. It would be better suited to a health board imo.

[FittyFour]

Originally Posted by STUPID1

I take it daily for it's many health benifits which makes me wonder how this discusion got on a body building form. It would be better suited to a health board imo.

Bodybuilding and exercise is healthcare - especially among the over 35 crowd an even more so for the over 50 which I'm part of.

Discussing exercise routines and supplements are part of it. Whether it's protein or CoQ10, it's all part of the equation.

As Hippocrates said, the nature of the body can only be understood as a whole.