Thyroid Boy's Journal Of Frustration

[Geeper]

Welcome to my journal...... all advice is welcomed

Sometimes I just feel totally overwhelmed by the amount of info out there and the amount of info in my own head.

I NEED PEOPLE TO COME IN HERE AND TOATLLY TEAR WHAT I"M DOING APART.

I totally realize that my thyroid disease plays a HUGE factor in my training results, but maybe with the help of other following this we can figure some stuff out and use maybe some unconventional methods to get me to where I want to be. I've learned I have very few fast twitch muscles, my recovery sucks and my muscle contraction is inhibited, all from my thyroid disease.

The FACTS
AGE- 35 (turning 36 in the new year)
WEIGHT- 185lbs (started at 280lbs, dropped to 175lbs last summer, bulked up to 210lbs last winter and currently at 185lbs with abs most days)
HEIGHT- 6'
BF%- less than 10, but I haven't measured lately
SUPPLIMENTS- 100% Whey, Animal Pak
TRAINING HISTORY- Trained at a gym for a year and now have worked out in my basement alone for an additional 2 years. I've tried a million different programs with very little results (Hench the "Frustration)
PROBLEMS- one hour a day, no more no less, lack of equipment, Arthritis in my legs quite bad, slower recovery than the average human and VERY slow metabolism.

My CURRENT PROGRAM seems to be working pretty good avoiding over training and keeping the fat off this older guy.

1- Monday-Chest (3 exercises) & One triceps exercise
2- Tuesday-Back (3 exercises) and one Bi exercise
3- Wednesday-easy legs, stretching and run (5k)
4- Thursday-Shoulders (3 exercises)
5- Friday- Arms (3 exercises)
6- Saturday- Long run (10k)
7- Sunday- Rest/cheat
8- Monday- Full body (1 or 2 exercises, 3-5 sets per body part)
9- Tuesday- Run (5k)
10- Wednesday- Full body (1 or 2 exercises, 3-5 sets per body part)
11- Thursday- Run (5k)
12- Friday- Full body (1 or 2 exercises, 3-5 sets per body part)
13- Saturday- Long Run (10k)
14- Sunday- Rest/Cheat

REPEAT

I'm hoping a few folks will start dropping in and giving advice that can change my world and lead me to my goals.

[dbx]

Welcome to journaling Geeper. And congrats on the weight loss! That's a huge accomplishment.


"My CURRENT PROGRAM seems to be working pretty good avoiding overtraining and keeping the fat off this older guy."

***I can't see how You're not overtraining with this routine.***

1- Monday-Chest & One triceps - *What does "one tricep" mean? *
2- Tuesday-Back and one Bi - * " " ? *
3- Wednesday-easy legs, stretching and run
4- Thursday-Shoulders
5- Friday- Arms
6- Saturday- Long run
7- Sunday- Rest/cheat
8- Monday- Full body
9- Tuesday- Run
10- Wednesday- Full body
11- Thursday- Run
12- Friday- Full body
13- Saturday- Long Run
14- Sunday- Rest/Cheat

REPEAT

I believe you should stick with one or the other ^ (separate body parts, or full body), but not both in a cycle.

Also, how long is your "long" run and how long is your regular run? For someone with bad arthritis in their legs, you sure run a lot. Distance running is not compatible with BBing, and you may be over doing it. This is also why you have weak fast twitch muscles, as you need more weight training and less running. Also, what kind of diet do you have?

And perhaps most important, what are your goals?

[Geeper]

Welcome to journaling Geeper. And congrats on the weight loss! That's a huge accomplishment.


"My CURRENT PROGRAM seems to be working pretty good avoiding over training and keeping the fat off this older guy."

***I can't see how You're not over training with this routine.***

1- Monday-Chest & One triceps - *What does "one triceps" mean? *
2- Tuesday-Back and one Bi - * " " ? *
3- Wednesday-easy legs, stretching and run
4- Thursday-Shoulders
5- Friday- Arms
6- Saturday- Long run
7- Sunday- Rest/cheat
8- Monday- Full body
9- Tuesday- Run
10- Wednesday- Full body
11- Thursday- Run
12- Friday- Full body
13- Saturday- Long Run
14- Sunday- Rest/Cheat

REPEAT

I believe you should stick with one or the other ^ (separate body parts, or full body), but not both in a cycle.

Also, how long is your "long" run and how long is your regular run? For someone with bad arthritis in their legs, you sure run a lot. Distance running is not compatible with BBing, and you may be over doing it. This is also why you have weak fast twitch muscles, as you need more weight training and less running. Also, what kind of diet do you have?

And perhaps most important, what are your goals?

Sorry, the "one Tri" is just one tricep exercise. So i do 3 chest exercises and one tricep exercises.

Same on back day, I do 3 back exercises and one bi exercise.

My regular runs are about 30 minutes (5K) and the longer runs are usually double than. The only real problem here is pain from the arthritis. I became very sick and extremely hypothyroid at one point for a long period. Muscle in that state actual changes from fast twitch to slow twitch.

I didn't consider it over training because (my chest for example) gets hit on day one with 15 sets and then rests a full week before it is hit again with only 3-5 sets per day or only another 15 sets during that complete 2nd week.

My diet is VERY clean and tracked down to the last calories everyday for the past 3 years or more. I always hit a minimum of 200gams of protein and rigth now am hitting just under 3000 calories a day.

[Geeper]

DAY 5 ARMS

This got cut a little short due to my son waking up from his nap...

This was also to be a light/high rep day

Super Set- one minute rest after each SS
(EZ bar curls/ EZ Bar overhead tricep extensions)
(same set up bar for both 3olbs on 20lbs bar= 50lbs)
15/15
15/15
15/15
15/15
15/15

Super Set- one minute rest after each SS
(alternate DB curls, one-arm overhead triceps extensions)
(same DBs for both loaded with 25lbs)
10/6
10/9
10/8

Super set.... well it doesnt matter cause he woke up
One set of BB curls 5 reps (70lbs)

Kinda pissed off when this happens... I just want an hour!!! I honestly love that kid to death though.....

DAILY TOTALS
cals 2993
fat 103 32%
carb 322 37%
protein 234 34%

[jtroster]

Another Canadian Welcome

[joed]

Welcome to the journals.

[=M=]

I kind of agree with DBX, it sounds like you may be in serious danger of over training. For example, I work each body part once every 7 days, and normally low reps with heavy weights.
Is it possible that there may be a little too much cardio going on too? It sounds like a lot of running, especially if you're having arthritis pain with it. Maybe a lower impact cardio would help there.
I know everybody's different, and what works well for one isn't necessarily what's best for another, but it may not be a bad idea to float around some of the other journals in here to get an idea of what we're talking about.

Best of luck!

[dbx]

Sorry, the "one Tri" is just one tricep exercise. So i do 3 chest exercises and one tricep exercises.

Same on back day, I do 3 back exercises and one bi exercise.

Okay, I see.

My regular runs are about 30 minutes (5K) and the longer runs are usually double than.

I'd suggest cutting down your long run to once every 2wks. In fact, if any sprinting is possible, that would be optimal if you're going to run.

You still didn't spell out your goals.

[Gunn27]

Welcome to the journals and congrats on what you have already achieved.

[Geeper]

Okay, I see.
I'd suggest cutting down your long run to once every 2wks. In fact, if any sprinting is possible, that would be optimal if you're going to run.
You still didn't spell out your goals.

I honestly don't think there's THAT much running going on. There's guys that run everyday to warm up or cool down etc. I'm only running 3 times a week, 2 of those are for 30 minutes and the other is my 5:30am Saturday morning run that usually takes me about 50-60 minutes.

I'm also coming off a summer of extreme running while I was training for a charity 10 K race, ( I came in the top 5) so it's like a new addiction and allows me to eat quite a few extra calories.

I should add as well, that without the running it is impossible for me to have any type of visible abs. (Which I wear like a badge!) My metabolism is just too slow, I've tried to diet down to them and ended up in insanely low calories which where even more harmful to my gains.

My goal is to add lean muscle over the winter, size over strength right now while maintaining a high level and ability of general fitness... and stay close to my 6 pack.

[NuclearArms]

Need a bit more on your medical history as well. What hormone replacement, what blood work results look like.

[Geeper]

Need a bit more on your medical history as well. What hormone replacement, what blood work results look like.

Before being diagnosed I was SEVERLY hypo, by all accounts I was the sickest patient they had seen that hadn't been bed ridden or hospitalized. I was beyond their test scale that maxed out at a TSH of 150. I was going blind, unable to hear, my hair was falling out, I was gaining water weight around my belly eating nothing, unable to regulate my own body temperature (I have memories of having 3 layers of shirts on plus a winter coat and a quilt while sitting next to a fire and still shivering.) Later a few doctors told me they were worried I might slip into a coma. (that's sort of the final stage)

That all got straightened away a couple of years ago (THANK GOD) and I now keep my levels of free t4 and t3 in mid-range using synthroid. (225 mcg dose)

There is VERY little information on the effects of thyroid disease on active people that I can find. It seems most are just happy to be fat. So part of the reason to run this journal is to log myself, get advise and to find as much info as I can out there. I've come across many different things over the years, but never kept it all in one place. (IE- effects of extreme hypo and the change in muscle tissue from fast twitch to slow twitch, non-response to progressive training, non-response to cardio training, slowed down healing processes, quick loss of extreme lack of muscle due to thyroid problems are all stuff I've read at one point or an other but I want to re-find this stuff and talk about it and have it here for others)

[Geeper]

DAY 6

LONG CARDIO DAY

Well, I didn't go to overboard, just a nice 7mph (10kmh) pace for 50 minutes..7.5 K total. About a 1/2 hour of stretching afterwards.

DAILY TOTALS
3825
Fat 108 26%
Carbs 517 50%
Protein 218 24%

Not the cleanest day, and tomorrow is cheat... so look out


I did inquire about jujitsu, taekwondo, karate, kickboxing and a million other things in the last 24 hours as well. I'm just dying to get back into martial arts after some 20 years away. Anyways, after all is said and done, the club, price and people that I think are going to be the best match for me right now is a MMA Muay Thai school really close to home. We'll see how it goes Monday night.

[Hibiscus09]

Welcome to journaling. You look nice, so you need a more positive journal title. No frustration allowed! You're supposed to be getting rid of all of it lifting weights.

I see abs and nice biceps in your photo. It's hard to give up running if you're loving it. However, if you can't give it up you will have to eat a ton of food to keep up with it and gain mass. I'm not even sure that's possible, but you can give it the old college try if you must.

As for the training, if you want to gain lean mass I'd do lower reps and nix the fullbody stuff all together. Do a split (4 days are nice) and hit your bodyparts hard as Hell -- high weight/lower reps.

[NuclearArms]

Knowing where you are coming from, you have done a great job. However, you should get out of the pity party mode. You have no to little thyroid activity and compensate with medication. I will say that you have a pretty hefty maintenace dose based on what my brother takes who also had a bout of myxedema that hospitalized him. So I know your flight.

As far as some other comments you had, I don't don't believe them. All the non-response items are bull****. How can you go from 280 to 180 and consider non-responsive true? Just proves it can be done. Just takes a lot of HARD WORK. You'll find others on here that are on different maintenance hormones for various ailments and gain weight/muscle, lose weight, get toned etc. It just takes a little more hard work and being very much in tune with what your body is telling you. You already know a lot of how to do it, now you have to fine-tune it. Positive body changes are tough for average people, harder when you get older and even harder when you have other ailments.

Don't know if this was something you were looking for or expected, but they are some of my thoughts on the subject. I'll look at your program in a while, gotta go.

[Geeper]

And I realize all of this... My wife often tells me my emails, blogs etc come off bad or negative (which is why I try to keep writing them to improve) but I know what I have accomplished is something very few people could do. I'm proud of what I've come through....I'm a VERY proud and happy person (I actually feel like I've won the lotto most days) and I know dedication... I know 6 months of 1600 calories and 1 and 1/2 hours a day of cardio... just to loose 2 lbs, when most would have quit I kept going.

Having lost the weight my frustration is the inability to add muscle... I've tried program after program, periodization, eating 6000 calories a day, eating less, 2 day splits, 3 day, 4 day, 5 day, full body, high reps, low reps, HST etc etc and am only pushing slightly more weight than I was 3 or 4 years ago. My DB bench has gone up some in 2 years (20lbs I think), but I curl basically the same weight I did 3 years ago! That's where my frustration comes from, and I hope by writing it down for people to see they will be able to see things I should change.

[Geeper]

WOW, I keep hard and steady diet and routine for 3 years.... Start a journal... and suddenly everything goes to crap over night.

Sunday was my cheat/rest day, but the cheat wasn't THAT bad.

DAILY TOTALS
4361
Fat 110 24%
Carbs 591 54%
Protein 231 22%

Monday turned crazy pretty quick. I had to suddenly baby sit for my sister in law, so there was no workout during the time I usually have allotted for it everyday. BUT I did have my first Muay Thai calss that evening.

Here was the class
3 rounds of skipping rope
2 rounds of kicks (last 30 second of each round double time)
3 rounds of a combinations (last 30 seconds of each round 20 kicks per leg)
3 rounds of holding pads for my partner doing his combinations
6 minutes of as many non-stop sets of 5 pushups, 10 situps and 15 squats that you can do... I think that was my hour

It felt like about an hour long run. GREAT cardio workout.

I did have a lot of nerves about doing it, and my diet suffered

DAILY TOTALS
3307
Fat 133 38%
Carbs 379 44%
Protein 148 19%!!!!!!!!!

Again yesterday was crazy with my car breaking down ((((((( No training, lots of waiting around and didn't eat anything!

DAILY TOTALS
3658
Fat 104 26%
Carbs 477 52%
Protein 196 22%


I mean REALLY, does your life become jinxed when you start a journal???????


All that aside, I think I'm going to leave the program I had been doing (and enjoying) and go back to an old fashioned one body part a day. The Muay Thai is REALLY going to effect my training much more than I thought.

Today I'm gonna rest, get my diet back in order, do my Muay Thai tonight and look for a good stretching program and skipping program. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe a DVD of stretching or skipping?

[jmc53]

Having lost the weight my frustration is the inability to add muscle... I've tried program after program, periodization, eating 6000 calories a day, eating less, 2 day splits, 3 day, 4 day, 5 day, full body, high reps, low reps, HST etc etc and am only pushing slightly more weight than I was 3 or 4 years ago. My DB bench has gone up some in 2 years (20lbs I think), but I curl basically the same weight I did 3 years ago! That's where my frustration comes from, and I hope by writing it down for people to see they will be able to see things I should change.

G'day,
My first visit to your journal.
For a guy who is desperate to add muscle - you seem addicted to cardio.
You describe above all the things you've tried.
Have you tried a basic mass building program in conjuntion with adequate rest and no cardio?
You have proven your ability to drop bf, and proven it outstandingly, so you need to come to grips with the idea that bf will go up a little while you add lean mass. Pro BB's, except when prepping for a comp, train eat and sleep - that's all - some gifted individuals might be able to gain lean mass while doing extensive cardio, but it seems that you're not one of them (and either am I).
Good luck to you.

[Geeper]

G'day,
My first visit to your journal.
For a guy who is desperate to add muscle - you seem addicted to cardio.
You describe above all the things you've tried.
Have you tried a basic mass building program in conjuntion with adequate rest and no cardio?
You have proven your ability to drop bf, and proven it outstandingly, so you need to come to grips with the idea that bf will go up a little while you add lean mass. Pro BB's, except when prepping for a comp, train eat and sleep - that's all - some gifted individuals might be able to gain lean mass while doing extensive cardio, but it seems that you're not one of them (and either am I).
Good luck to you.

I gave that a good go last winter. I had already lost my weight and was confident I could do it again, so about this time last year I started eating pretty heavy and stopped doing any cardio at all. It wasn't til late February or maybe March that I started with the cardio again. I went from my 175lbs at about this time last year to 215lbs by the end of January, basically bulked 40lbs, eating clean. I added 40lbs and my DB bench went up 5lbs

I don't know if I'm addicted to cardio... but without it I gain fat very quickly.

I'm hoping keeping this journal over a LONG period of time folks might see a pattern or two in my training that's hurting me, that I'm not picking up on.

[NuclearArms]

Took some time and thought about your dilemma, trying to put more muscle mass on. Couple of things come to mind.

1. You do a lot of cardio, particularly running, that impedes muscle growth.
2. You may have testosterone issues. A lot of time thyroid and test problems go together. I don't know if you ever had total and free test levels taken.
3. Calories appear as maintenance, rather than growth.
4. Overtraining is likely.

Couple of things I would change up.
1. Make a decision - you are pushing your body in 2 different directions
Either A. worry about the abs B. worry about muscle gain
2. Have your test levels checked.
3. Change your short runs to HIIT runs.
4. Cut back your lifting and concentrate on the big three.
5. Increase calories.

I really think you have to decide what your goals are going to be. You'll remain frustrated trying to do it all and only getting some things accomplished.

[Geeper]

Did nothing today but my Muay Thai class this evening for 1 hour..

DAILY TOTALS
2938
Fat 85 27%
Carbs 376 47%
Protein 187 26%

OK, so know that I know this Muay Thai is going to stay in my schedule at least 3 times a week, I'm going to drop all my running but my early Saturday 5:30am run.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far...

I have had my test levels checked, and total test in mid-normal range for the average man, which apparently is a little high for a guy heading towards 36 in a few months (?). I've never had my free test check though. I'll have to ask about that.

I'm also going to try a different lifting routine. Nucleararms? lets say I lifted on my off days from Muay thai, 3 times a week, what would your suggest? Or would it be better to weight train earlier on the same day and have more rest days? Suddenlt I'm lost

Again, I LOVE getting this feedback and really appreciated it.

[NuclearArms]

With Mauy Thai 3x a week, I'd look into Max OT or something similar. It concentrates on the 'big three', rotates bodyparts well and is good for a 3-4 day a week training. Again, you can modify things as you deem necessary. I don't have specific links, but I'm sure you can search the site and come up with a few articles

[Geeper]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to NuclearArms again.

I'm considering doing 5x5 again, but I'll look into Mat OT

[jmc53]

I'm considering doing 5x5 again, but I'll look into Mat OT

Both would be good choices - and training on off days from other physical activities would also be good. Might also help if you post a typical days diet, including meal times. Protein seems a little low, but hard to tell without seeing exactly what you eat.

[Geeper]

My protein intake has SUCKED the past week. I've averaged around 230 grams of protein a day for the past couple of years, which I figured with my weight at 185lbs, is pretty good. 185 grams is usually the lowest I'll ever let it go.

The Muay thai has been so draining I'm shocked. I'm taking the rest of the week off, (other than my MT class tomorrow night) and going to decide on 5x5 or Max OT starting on Monday. As much as I'm itching to get back at the weights I think this little break will focus me a bit more... and I should have really taken a bit off time off after the last few months anyway....

[jmc53]

and I should have really taken a bit off time off after the last few months anyway....

When you check out Max OT I think you'll find that taking one week off every 8 weeks is part of the program.

[Minotaur]

Geeper, I am hypothyroid too. I'm on 200 mcg of Levoxyl. My recent TSH was 0.475, Free T4 was 1.67 and Free T3 was 2.9. I've been battling this for 17 years. I also have idiopathic hypopituitarism and hypogonadism, for which I take hGH and testosterone replacements, respectively. I also have Metabolic Syndrome which includes insulin resistance, aka the beginnings of Type 2 diabetes, for which I take metformin. Yes, I am a mess.

However, it is all pretty much under control now. And my point is that through all of it, it is very possible (though difficult) to gain lots of muscle. I don't know if you've ever had other hormonal panels done, but low testosterone often goes hand in hand with hypothyroidism. With low testosterone it is very difficult to gain muscle and lose fat.

I've also found that a ketogenic diet (high fat, moderate protein, ultra low carb) has been helpful in getting my blood sugar and waist measurement down. That may not work for you, but it's just one option. I personally hate cardio, though I know I should add some in to speed up the fat loss.

So, not to hijack your thread, but these are just some other things to consider. Consider having your doc look at your testosterone and IGF-1 levels. IGF-1 is a more reliable indicator of hGH level.

[Geeper]

WOW, your more messed up than me! I'm just the thyroid and arthritis. (and a few mental things)

Last blood test my T3 and T4 levels where all fairly close to yours. Of course TSH doesn't matter anymore since my thyroid is toast (hashi's) but it was just slightly lower than yours. My total test comes up mid-normal range, but I've never had free test checked or the others you mentioned, I'll have to check those.

Low carb has always turned out the best way for me as well, and any other thyroid patience I talk to all seem to say the same. I have to do cardio to loose weight it seems. At one point I was eating 1700-1800 calories and lifting all week and wasn't losing a single pound, added cardio and cut up pretty fast.

Thanks for the advice, I'm still trying to re-find the articles I had found that talked about the changes in muscle tissue and muscle contraction for severe hypo suffers or folks who had gone through a severe hypo stage at some point.

[Minotaur]

WOW, your more messed up than me!

Told ya.

[Geeper]

Here's we go...

After a lot of reading on the weekend, especially guys doing martial arts and lifting at the same time I decided to just do an old fashioned one part a day routine, start easy and work back up... planning on 3 exercises per body part and 5 sets.

GOOD MORNING (5:30am)
60 push ups
breakfast
60 push ups

WORKOUT (1:15pm)
2 minute rests
DB bench press (60lbs) 12,12,12,10,7
Incline DB bench press (50lbs) 10,7
Decline/flat/incline flies

... and that's as far as I got. In case you don't know, I'm a stay at home dad, and when duty calls the workout is over. Today my little buddy is sick, so he had quite a short nap (poor guy)

Muay Thai tonight as well...

DAILY TOTALS
to be posted later... still waiting for my whey order. This is the longest it's ever taken, and the longest I've gone without supplemental protein.

NOTES
Little buddy's sick, so the workout was cut short and I didn't get much sleep last night. I'm also getting weird headaches in my left temple that move behind my left eye and make it water when skipping or doing push ups. Dr appointment not till next Tues... hope I don't die or drop by then