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  1. #1
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    Yates Row vs. BB Row.

    Is there a significant difference between these two besides the position/stance?

    People use the Yates row because they have lower back problems, but doesn't this really hit the traps more because of the way you're positioned?

    I just want to know which is better for overall rhomboid growth.
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  2. #2
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    Please do some searching before you ask this type of thing. Here's a link to a thread where I answered this question.


    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=894197
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    Don't ever use search function. It's better to make a thread and then have people tell you to use it. Since the same people are on here everyday, they get mad when one person asks a question that they answered 4 months before.
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    yeah, you're right. Sorry I got snappy.
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  5. #5
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NTT
    Is there a significant difference between these two besides the position/stance?

    People use the Yates row because they have lower back problems, but doesn't this really hit the traps more because of the way you're positioned?

    I just want to know which is better for overall rhomboid growth.
    Yates rows are performed in a more upright position. Here's a demonstration. Yates used to do them with an underhand grip until he tore his biceps.

    They seem to focus more on the entire traps (low, mid, upper) at the expense of the lats by being somewhere between a shrug and a bent-over row. Both will hit the rhomboids if that's what you're asking. Just focus on squeezing everything back there at the top of the movement.
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  6. #6
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    I don't like the underhanded Yates row. It just feels somewhat unnatural as far as the pulling motion goes. Regular overhand grip feels pretty good using heavier weights than I can pull with a more bent over row though.
    Sometimes you eat the bar, and well, sometimes the bar eats you.
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  7. #7
    Fabulofessional gy1's Avatar
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    Underhanded Yates row lets you row havier weights. I use every version of Bent over BB rows+unsupported T-bar rows. They rock.
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  8. #8
    Avast ye scab! RIPcookiethief's Avatar
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    I try them every now and then as I'm also into using a wide range of rows. But it always felt like I couldn't pull as much weight using the underhand style.
    Sometimes you eat the bar, and well, sometimes the bar eats you.
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  9. #9
    Registered User ahms's Avatar
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    I find yates rows, performed at the typical angle, are actually harder on my lower back than regular rows which I perform at paralell, or close to!?
    Maybe im used to the regular style
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  10. #10
    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NTT
    Is there a significant difference between these two besides the position/stance?

    People use the Yates row because they have lower back problems, but doesn't this really hit the traps more because of the way you're positioned?

    I just want to know which is better for overall rhomboid growth.
    Rhomboids? I would say regular bent rows.

    People use Yates rows to hit their lower lats. In fact, I believe the term "Yates row" is becoming too specific. Dorian Yates happened to do his Reverse grip bent rows with a somewhat upright stance, but there are guys that do regular rows like this also. People call any Preacher curl a "Scott curl" even if it is done with a Curl bar, DB whatever.

    Regarding Yates rows, It is just a friggin reverse grip row to the waist. By standing SOMEWHAT above parallel, it facilitates the bar going to the waist, which optimizes lower lat action and MINIMIZES arm flexor action. But the exact angle varies from person to person. One can do a reverse grip row parallel if that is what works.
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  11. #11
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1
    Regarding Yates rows, It is just a friggin reverse grip row to the waist. By standing SOMEWHAT above parallel, it facilitates the bar going to the waist, which optimizes lower lat action and MINIMIZES arm flexor action. But the exact angle varies from person to person. One can do a reverse grip row parallel if that is what works.
    Whenever I explain them, I just go by how I've seen Dorian doing them.
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  12. #12
    Lifting Smarter akaMarko's Avatar
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    How I learned to do Yates rows.

    As defiant mentioned, they seem to hit the lower lats more.
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  13. #13
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    Old thread and a good one. I feel underhand rows hit my lower back better than overhand. Dorian now is on the musculardevelopment team so Im sure we'll hear more on this.


    Originally Posted by _Dominik_ View Post
    Whenever I explain them, I just go by how I've seen Dorian doing them.
    was this after his bidep tear? he looks pretty huge in that so It might not of been.

    Originally Posted by akaMarko View Post
    How I learned to do Yates rows.

    As defiant mentioned, they seem to hit the lower lats more.
    I think once you get to extremely heavy weight to use to overhand grip on all exercises.

    I used to pull under/over intill i got decently strong and now just use wraps. Too many injruies happened on underhand grip when you get extremely strong. This is how Dorian tore his bicep and ended his career. he's another video..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW6dTdSnDtU
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by JohnSmeton View Post
    I think once you get to extremely heavy weight to use to overhand grip on all exercises.
    I think it varies from individual to individual. Muscle insertion points, form, etc all play a big role. I use an underhand grip almost exclusively for rows and have never had any issues. I have high biceps and rarely even feel rows hitting the bis, so it simply isn't a concern for me. Someone getting a lot more biceps action may want to heed your advice. For me the risk is certainly worth the reward.
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  15. #15
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnSmeton View Post
    was this after his bidep tear? he looks pretty huge in that so It might not of been.
    He tore his left biceps in 1994 and retired after winning the 1997 Olympia (he tore his triceps that year).
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Whenever I explain them, I just go by how I've seen Dorian doing them.
    Originally Posted by akaMarko View Post
    How I learned to do Yates rows.

    As defiant mentioned, they seem to hit the lower lats more.
    Is it just me, or do these pics look profoundly different? Dominik's has overhand (pronated) grip and the elbows are coming out. Marko's has underhand (supinated) grip and the elbows are in.

    I can see how Marko's might hit lats but I think Dominik's is a mix of posterior deltoid and middle deltoid.

    They're actually something I've been doing without knowing they're yates rows, just called them semi-bent-over-rear-delt or semi-upright rows, lol. It seems halfway between the two.
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    JosefRakichFitness.com JOSEF RAKICH's Avatar
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    I do underhand grip.

    Much better lat activation IMO.
    Last edited by JOSEF RAKICH; 04-21-2011 at 03:18 AM.
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  18. #18
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tyciol View Post
    Is it just me, or do these pics look profoundly different? Dominik's has overhand (pronated) grip and the elbows are coming out. Marko's has underhand (supinated) grip and the elbows are in.

    I can see how Marko's might hit lats but I think Dominik's is a mix of posterior deltoid and middle deltoid.

    They're actually something I've been doing without knowing they're yates rows, just called them semi-bent-over-rear-delt or semi-upright rows, lol. It seems halfway between the two.
    Why are you bumping threads that are 5 years old?

    He did them with an underhand grip until he tore his biceps, and then he switched to overhand.

    Good luck rowing 400lbs with "a mix of posterior deltoid and middle deltoid."
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    JosefRakichFitness.com JOSEF RAKICH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Why are you bumping threads that are 5 years old?

    He did them with an underhand grip until he tore his biceps, and then he switched to overhand.

    Good luck rowing 400lbs with "a mix of posterior deltoid and middle deltoid."
    Did he tear his bicep from BB rows?
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  20. #20
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    Yes, but which of the above 2 images do you do? There seems dispute over what the Yates row is. I'm in the dark kinda. If we could name it based on the posture and movement it'd be clearer.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Why are you bumping threads that are 5 years old?

    He did them with an underhand grip until he tore his biceps, and then he switched to overhand.

    Good luck rowing 400lbs with "a mix of posterior deltoid and middle deltoid."
    That and the first pic seems to be a screencap of a video and the second looks like a professional photo shoot... makes a lot of difference

    What are you rowing these days Dom? I've stopped setting weight PRs a while ago. I find myself sticking with 3 plates or so and trying to get more volume, for no particular reason.
    "It seems like your goal is not to help."

    log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147517853&p=960218773&viewfull=1#post960218773
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  22. #22
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AHTTG View Post
    That and the first pic seems to be a screencap of a video and the second looks like a professional photo shoot... makes a lot of difference

    What are you rowing these days Dom? I've stopped setting weight PRs a while ago. I find myself sticking with 3 plates or so and trying to get more volume, for no particular reason.
    I like to do them strict, closer to parallel with a wider grip and it's difficult to progress on those beyond 3/side for a reasonable number of reps doing them that way. Loosening up the form I'll go up to 4/side.

    I know a lot of bigger lifters like to row closer to upright and cheat the weight up with 400+, but I prefer to do as many reps as possible with strict form because it works for me. If I was going to be standing closer to upright on rows then I'd rather load up the bar with twice as much weight and do shrugs instead.

    They're a great exercise when done properly and I usually do them as a warmup before RDLs, but from a bodybuilding perspective I find I can target the back more effectively with one-arm DB rows (I use those big Ironmind handles), Hammer Strength rows, and seated cable rows.

    Back to Dorian...

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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Why are you bumping threads that are 5 years old?
    Cause it's interesting.

    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    He did them with an underhand grip until he tore his biceps, and then he switched to overhand.
    Ah okay, wasn't aware of this. So the guy in the 2nd pic is doing it after the way he originally did it.

    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Good luck rowing 400lbs with "a mix of posterior deltoid and middle deltoid."
    Oy, obviously he's using a lot of his back, I'm just talking about what's attaching the weight to his scapula. It's hard to think of what would do this besides the delts/teres (plus rotor cuff I guess). No matter how much trap/rhomboid/etc. this hits, something has to bring the arms to them. Maybe I'm overlooking the importance of shoulder ligaments which might also bear the weight during straight-arm pulling?
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    Originally Posted by Tyciol View Post
    Cause it's interesting.
    Most people will find it annoying, although I will agree a few years back we had more interesting discussions about training with some of the more experienced older posters (D1, Diamonddelts, etc.) whereas now it's usually a circle jerk of noobs parroting information.

    Ah okay, wasn't aware of this. So the guy in the 2nd pic is doing it after the way he originally did it.
    It's Dorian Yates in both photos. He originally did them with an underhand grip and then switched after the injury.
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    Originally Posted by Tyciol View Post
    Cause it's interesting.
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