ZMA: may be a BS supp?

[best regards]

Well the last three doctors I've talked to (my doctor, my dad's doctor, and my orthopaedic) I've asked them all about ZMA and none have them have even heard of it. It seems that if there was a supplement shown to boost test naturally that would be pretty significant, wouldn't ya think? I alerady got some. But I haven't taken it in a few weeks because you're not supposed to take it with calcium. And I drink a lot of milk and the sort before bed. And I can't give that up unless ZMA would actually do something for me.

[Skigazzi]

Victor Conte made it!! You dont doubt this man do you!!!!

[BillyB]

You do realize most doctors still think whey protein and/or Creatine is bad for your kidneys? What I am trying to say is that 99.9% of them do not research supplements or nutrition. Sometimes I even wonder how many of them even read med journals or pubmed.

[wild1poet2]

Most docs are trained to deal with unhealthy or traumatic conditions. They will not be familiar with health supps or lifestyle. I'm not surprised they have not heard of it. ZMA is just a mix of minerals and vitamins that have been shown to prevent drops in T when athletes maintain a strenuous training regimen. It won't help the millions of couch potatoes. The harder you train the more ZMA will be of value to you.

[need2eat]

I read the many posts on this forum about the use of ZMA, of what I read, there were no positive effects on strength or size but the dreams were said to be vivid and crazy.


After using a bottle, I can agree, it had zero effect on strength or size. My dreames BEFORE the use of ZMA were already vivid, so vivid, I woulda swore they were in color via HDTV...haha. Taking the ZMA, my dreams seemed to increased in detail and content, however, something weird happened, my dreams appeared fuzzy, as if I were looking through dark lenses...and this was consistant with taking the pills. The product did cause me to wake up a couple times nauseas and made me nauseas after many morning workouts, nothing unbearable, but it was noticable.


I won't take this product again.

[Pinot]

Originally Posted by need2eat

I read the many posts on this forum about the use of ZMA, of what I read, there were no positive effects on strength or size but the dreams were said to be vivid and crazy.


After using a bottle, I can agree, it had zero effect on strength or size. My dreames used to be vivid, so vivid, I woulda swore they were in color via HDTV...haha. Taking the ZMA, my dreams seemed to increased in detail and content, however, something weird happened, my dreams appeared fuzzy, as if I were looking through dark lenses...and this was consistant with taking the pills. They did cause me to wake up a couple times nauseas and made me nauseas after morning workouts, nothing unbearable, but it was noticable.


I won't take this product again.

You picked the wrong product if you were looking for size and strength gains. ZMA will not directly do any of those.

[best regards]

Originally Posted by Pinot

You picked the wrong product if you were looking for size and strength gains. ZMA will not directly do any of those.

Right I don't think it's supposed to make you stronger just from taking it.

But regarding doctors, you don't think an orthopaedic, a doctor who specializes in athletes, would know of a supplement that is said to boost your test? But to tell the truth I'm 14 so I don't think it would make too much of a difference regardless. I'm just gonna give them to my dad who's 50 and he's gonna start working once he heals from his broken rib injury. Probably will be of use to him if what ya'll are saying is correct.

edit: by the way, how long does it take to absorb. Because he drinks a casein shake every night. Should he take the ZMA, then 30 min later the casein shake? And how long before taking it should you not consume calcium?

[SeaHawk22]

The lucid dreams are caused by the B6 in ZMA. If anyone was wondering.



Google it, if you dont believe me.
Also I have taken b6 before bed and confirmed this.

[Pinot]

Originally Posted by best regards

Right I don't think it's supposed to make you stronger just from taking it.

But regarding doctors, you don't think an orthopaedic, a doctor who specializes in athletes, would know of a supplement that is said to boost your test? But to tell the truth I'm 14 so I don't think it would make too much of a difference regardless. I'm just gonna give them to my dad who's 50 and he's gonna start working once he heals from his broken rib injury. Probably will be of use to him if what ya'll are saying is correct.

edit: by the way, how long does it take to absorb. Because he drinks a casein shake every night. Should he take the ZMA, then 30 min later the casein shake? And how long before taking it should you not consume calcium?

Doctors really don't know sh!t when it comes to supplements. Both my physician and several other doctors asked me what supplements I was taking a few months ago when I had a head injury. I mentioned whey protein, and creatine, and multivitamins. But when I said things like ZMA, Fish Oil, BCAAs, Nitric Oxide, etc, they had no f*cking idea what I was talking about.

[tweaked17]

Originally Posted by Pinot

You picked the wrong product if you were looking for size and strength gains. ZMA will not directly do any of those.

^^x2

if you understood how ZMA "works" (and what it is) you wouldn't be calling it a BS supplement. It is a supplement that some companies choose to make BS claims about, however.

[need2eat]

Originally Posted by Pinot

You picked the wrong product if you were looking for size and strength gains. ZMA will not directly do any of those.

Im guessing you've never read any ZMA claims or sales pitches then....



but yeah, I agree.





To further add to my experience, the product didn't help me sleep any better either, at first it did but within a couple days, I was right back to my old sleep patterns. No other variables changed during this period of time either.

[Speedbuff]

RESEARCH SUPPORTIVE OF ZMA SUPPLEMENTATION

1. The effect of zinc depletion on muscle function was tested in 8 male subjects. After receiving 12 mg Zn/day for 17 days, the subjects received 0.3 mg Zn/day for either 33 or 41 days. The subjects were then divided into two groups for zinc repletion. Group A subjects received overnight infusion of 66 mg of Zn on Day 1 and 10 and then were fed 12 mg Zn/day for another 16 days. Group B subjects were fed 12 mg Zn/day for 21 days. Peak force and total work capacity of the knee and shoulder extensor and flexor muscle groups were assessed using an isokinetic dynamometer at baseline, at two points during depletion, and at repletion. Plasma zinc levels decreased by an average of 67% during depletion and remained 9% below baseline after repletion. The peak force of the muscle groups was not found to be significantly affected by acute zinc depletion, however, shoulder peak force (strength) was found to be reduced by 9.2% in the extensor muscles. Total work capacity (muscle endurance) for the knee extensor muscles and shoulder extensor and flexor muscles declined significantly by 28.1%, 24.1% and 26.4%, respectively. This study demonstrates that muscle endurance, or total work capacity, declines rapidly with acute zinc depletion and the degree of the decline was correlated with the reduction in plasma zinc concentration.

Van Loan, MD, et al. The Effects of Zinc Depletion on Peak Force and Total Work of Knee and Shoulder Extensor and Flexor Muscles. Int J of Sport Nutr, June 1999, Vol. 9, No. 2, 125-135.

2. A study was conducted to determine the effects of magnesium supplementation on strength development during a double-blind, 7-week strength training program in 26 untrained subjects (14=placebo, 12= Mg), 18-30 years old. Pre and post peak quadriceps torque (leg press) measurements were made using an isokinetic dynamometer. The leg muscle strength of the magnesium supplemented group significantly increased by 26%, compared to only 10% for the placebo group.

Brilla, LR, et al. Effect of Magnesium Supplementation on Strength Training in Humans. J Am Coll Nutr, July 1992, Vol 11, No. 3, 326-329

3. Serum zinc levels were determined in 160 training athletes (103 males and 57 females). In 23.3% of male and 43% of female athletes, serum zinc was significantly below the "normal range".

Haralambie, G. Serum zinc in athletes in training. Int J Sports Med 2 (1981) 135-138.

4. Magnesium, zinc and copper status of 270 US Navy Sea, Air and Land (SEAL) trainees was determined from dietary intakes and biochemical profiles. The dietary intakes of 34% and 44% of the trainees were below the RDA for Mg and Zn, respectively. The blood plasma concentrations of Mg and Zn were significantly below the "normal range" for 23% and 24% of the trainees, respectively.

Sing A, et al. Magnesium, Zinc and Copper status of US Navy SEAL trainees. Am J Clin Nutr 1989;49:695-700.

5. Serum zinc levels were measured in 20 adolescent gymnasts (9 boys, 11 girls, age 12-15). They had 26% lower serum zinc levels (0.599 +/- 0.026 mg/l) when compared to 118 matched controls (0.810 +/- 0.014, p < 0.001). The gymnasts serum zinc levels were positively correlated with adductor strength (r=0.468, p < 0.05). The 11 of 20 gymnasts with serum zinc < 0.6 mg/L had lower insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3 levels than the others (2.326 +/- 0.064 vs 2.699 +/- 0.12, p < 0.01). This protein is supposed to reflect growth hormone activity. Thus, zinc is lowered in trained adolescent gymnasts and this reduction could play a role in abnormalities of growth or muscular performance.

Brun J, et al. Serum zinc in highly trained adolescent gymnasts. Bio Trac Elem Res, 1995, Vol. 47, 273-278.

6. Twenty-one professional football (soccer) players underwent a maximal exercise test on a cycloergometer, with progressively increasing workloads until VO2max. On the whole these subjects had low serum zinc because nine (43%) of them had a hypozincemia (0.54 +/- 0.01 mg/L) which suggested a zinc deficiency. The subjects with low serum zinc had a 26% lower power output (123 +/- 8.71 vs. 166.27 +/- 14.84 watts, p = 0.029) and exhibited a 35% higher increase in blood lactate (lactic acid) during exercise (7.51 +/- 0.81 vs. 5.57 +/- 0.33 mmol/L, p <0.04) resulting in a 24% lower 2 mmol lactate threshold (44.7 +/- 3.9% vs. 58.9 +/- 4.8% of maximal power output p < 0.04). In conclusion, this study suggests that zinc status may influence blood rheology (flow) during exercise by an effect related to lactate accumulation.

Khaled S, et al. Serum zinc and blood rheology in sportsmen (football players. Clin Hemo and Micro 17 (1997) 47-48.

7. Ten collegiate basketball players serum mineral levels were measured before official practice began and immediately following the competitive season. Diets were monitored and remained the same throughout the four month period. Mean serum values for Mg and Zn decreased pre-season to post- season by 16% and 41%, respectively.

Lefavi RG, et al. Reduced serum mineral levels in basketball players after season. Med and Sci in Sports and Exer. Vol. 27, No. 5, May 1995

8. Twelve professional volleyball players and 12 control subjects were studied to determine the effects of daily physical training on serum, sweat and urine zinc concentrations. The professional athletes trained every day in two sessions, one in the morning (work in the gym for 2 hours) and another in the afternoon (specific work on the sports field for 3 hours). Simultaneously, 12 male volunteer university students, who were moderately trained, participated as the control group. The study was conducted over a period of 10 weeks. Pre-post tests were made using a progressive bicycle ergometer (increasing 30 W every 3 minutes to reach a maximum tolerated power). Pre-post blood samples were obtained at rest and immediately following exercise. After ten weeks of training, the professional athletes showed a significant increase in 24 hour urinary zinc excretion (22% greater losses), in contrast to a slight decrease (2% less) in the controls. The athletes also showed a very significant increase in the zinc loses in sweat compared to the controls. The athletes sweat zinc concentrations increased by an astounding 300%, compared to only 30% increases in the control group. The athletes serum zinc levels decreased by 4%, compared to a 2% decrease in the control group. Finally, the post exercise cortisol levels of the athletes significantly increased by 93%, compared to only an 18% increase in the controls. The authors stated that the athletes "cortisol levels increased in response to the exercise work load stress, and this behavior seems to be related to muscular damage". The authors went on to say that "It seems that the changes in zinc metabolism found in the study may be damage, increased protein turnover and increased zinc excretion (via sweat and urine). Because strenuous exercise during a period of competition can induce a "catabolic state" and has been shown to increase skeletal muscle protein turnover, it is likely that urine zinc is derived from muscle tissue". The authors concluded by saying that "Zinc supplementation and/or stress control appear to be indicated in athletes. In our practical opinion, we think that alterations in zinc metabolism with increases in zinc excretion and stress levels lead to a situation of latent fatigue with a decrease of endurance".

Cordova A, et al. Effect of training on zinc metabolism: changes in serum and sweat concentrations in sportsmen. Ann Nutr Metab, 1998 42:5, 274-82.

9. Plasma zinc, iron, copper and selenium levels were measured in 66 Navy SEAL trainees before and after a 5 day period of sustained physical and psychological stress called "Hell Week". The trainees pre-post plasma zinc levels decreased by 33%.

Singh A, et al. Biochemical indices of selected trace minerals in men: effect of stress. Am J Clin Nutrition 1991; 53:126-31.

10. Nine healthy, male subjects (18-40 years) were supplemented daily with 365 mg of magnesium as aspartate for 14 days. Before and after the supplementation period each subject performed a rigorously identical one hour ergometer exercise. The magnesium supplementation significantly reduced the subjects plasma levels of the catabolic "stress" hormone cortisol by an average of 25% (P < 0.025), which remained decreased during the exercise. The magnesium also significantly lowered the subjects' heart rates throughout the exercise period by an average of 8% (P < 0.03). Golf SW, et al. Plasma aldosterone, cortisol and electrolyte concentrations in physical exercise after magnesium supplementation. Clin Chem Clen Biochem, 1984, Vol. 22, pp. 717-721.

11. Medical students were tested to determine the acute effect of zinc supplementation on cortisol levels. The test was started at 7:00 AM after a 12 hour fast. Serial blood samples were collected from an experimental zinc group and controls at 30 minute intervals for 240 minutes. A subgroup of 7 subjects (3 men, 4 women) ingested 25 mg of zinc immediately after the baseline collection and their cortisol levels were compared to 8 matched controls who received a placebo. The control group started out with an average cortisol level of 11 mcg/dL and fell to 9 mcg/dL at 240 minutes, which is an 18% reduction. The zinc supplemented group started out with an average cortisol level of 16 mcg/dL and significantly dropped to 6.5 mcg/dL, which is a 59% reduction. In summary, the zinc supplemented group had a 41% greater reduction in cortisol levels compared to controls. The fact that zinc inhibits basal cortisol secretion in humans may be related to a direct blockade of cortisol synthesis and secretion in the adrenal cortex.

Brandao-Neto J, et al. Zinc acutely and temporarily inhibits adrenal cortisol secretion in humans. Bio Trace Elem Res, 1990, Vol. 24, 83-89.

12. Nine men participated in an 85 day zinc depletion/repletion study divided into 3 metabolic periods: 18 day baseline, a 44 day depletion, and a 23 day repletion. 12 mg of zinc per day was fed to the men during baseline and were held constant after adjustments during the baseline period. Plasma zinc declined from 77.1 +/- 0.03 mcg/dl at baseline to 28.1 +/- 0.07 mcg/dl at depletion; concentrations returned to 77.9 +/- 0.03 mcg/dl at repletion. Total body weight, fat, fat-free mass (FFM), and bone mineral did not change during depletion, but total body water increased 5.3% +/- 1.9%, or about 2 kg or 4.4 lbs (P <0.05) by the end of the depletion and returned to baseline values at the end of repletion. The percent water in FFM increased from 71% +/- 1 to 75% +/- (P <0.05) at the end of depletion and was associated with a small decrease in body protein. The data suggest that zinc depletion impairs water balance.

Sutherland B, et al, Effect of experimental zinc depletion on body composition and basal metabolism in men. The FASEB Journal, Mar. 10, 1995, Volume 9, Number 4.
__________________
SNAC System

[Alphy]

Replying to an '06 post with the same thing your posting in every other thread?

Wow.

[Sldge]

Maybe you should post studies that represent 99% of the users on this forum instead of posting studies done on starving sleep deprived Navy Seals or professional athletes working out 5+ hours everyday.

Here are 2 that you seem to have missed, RESEARCH NOT SUPPORTIVE OF ZMA:

J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2004 Dec 31;1(2):12-20.
Effects of Zinc Magnesium Aspartate (ZMA) Supplementation on Training Adaptations and Markers of Anabolism and Catabolism.
Wilborn CD, Kerksick CM, Campbell BI, Taylor LW, Marcello BM, Rasmussen CJ, Greenwood MC, Almada A, Kreider RB.

Exercise & Sport Nutrition Lab, Baylor University, Waco, TX.

ABSTRACT : This study examined whether supplementing the diet with a commercial supplement containing zinc magnesium aspartate (ZMA) during training affects zinc and magnesium status, anabolic and catabolic hormone profiles, and/or training adaptations. Forty-two resistance trained males (27 +/- 9 yrs; 178 +/- 8 cm, 85 +/- 15 kg, 18.6 +/- 6% body fat) were matched according to fat free mass and randomly assigned to ingest in a double blind manner either a dextrose placebo (P) or ZMA 30-60 minutes prior to going to sleep during 8-weeks of standardized resistance-training. Subjects completed testing sessions at 0, 4, and 8 weeks that included body composition assessment as determined by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry, 1-RM and muscular endurance tests on the bench and leg press, a Wingate anaerobic power test, and blood analysis to assess anabolic/catabolic status as well as markers of health. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA. Results indicated that ZMA supplementation non-significantly increased serum zinc levels by 11 - 17% (p = 0.12). However, no significant differences were observed between groups in anabolic or catabolic hormone status, body composition, 1-RM bench press and leg press, upper or lower body muscular endurance, or cycling anaerobic capacity. Results indicate that ZMA supplementation during training does not appear to enhance training adaptations in resistance trained populations.


Eur J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;63(1):65-70. Epub 2007 Sep 19.Click here to read Links
Serum testosterone and urinary excretion of steroid hormone metabolites after administration of a high-dose zinc supplement.
Koehler K, Parr MK, Geyer H, Mester J, Sch?nzer W.

1Institute of Biochemistry, German Research Centre of Elite Sport, German Sport University Cologne, Cologne, Germany.

Objectives:To investigate whether the administration of the zinc-containing nutritional supplement ZMA causes an increase of serum testosterone levels, which is an often claimed effect in advertising for such products; to monitor the urinary excretion of testosterone and selected steroid hormone metabolites to detect potential changes in the excretion patterns of ZMA users.Subjects:Fourteen healthy, regularly exercising men aged 22-33 years with a baseline zinc intake between 11.9 and 23.2 mg day(-1) prior to the study.Results:Supplementation of ZMA significantly increased serum zinc (P=0.031) and urinary zinc excretion (P=0.035). Urinary pH (P=0.011) and urine flow (P=0.045) were also elevated in the subjects using ZMA. No significant changes in serum total and serum free testosterone were observed in response to ZMA use. Also, the urinary excretion pattern of testosterone metabolites was not significantly altered in ZMA users.Conclusions:The present data suggest that the use of ZMA has no significant effects regarding serum testosterone levels and the metabolism of testosterone in subjects who consume a zinc-sufficient diet.European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2009) 63, 65-70; doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1602899; published online 19 September 2007.

[Hansolo261]

I find zma help due to the fact I workout at 5am and work two jobs. It helps me sleep a lot better and I wake up a little more ready to hit the weights. I been a zma user for about 7 years. I cant say I gotten gains from zma alone but has helped my stacks.

If you feel crazy try zma with melatoin 1.