'normal' squats vs fitball squats

[Alinta]

as a beginner to the world of squatting, which do you think would be better for me? To do bodyweight squats on my own or to use the aid of the fitness ball (where it is behind your back up against a wall). I guess I am looking to do the one that puts the least stress on my knees.

Or is there a better alternative for building muscle in the butt?? I have tried lunges and omni leg press but they stuff up my knee even with light weights.

[Firepower]

imo, if you can, try to stick to bodyweight squats as opposed to swiss ball squats. Try to open up your stance a bit. When performing the squat, you should sit back into it (as if you're about to sit on a chair). This will increase activation of the hip extensors (glutes and hamstrings) and place more of the stress in the hip, rather than on the knees.

as for building muscle in the butt: squats, lunges, leg press, stiff-legged deadlifts, hack squat...just to name a few exercises

[Eileen]

Bodyweight squats. I've often got twinges in my knee from ball squats, you are using an unnatural angle.

Step-ups are a good way to work the thighs without stressing the knees.

Stiff leg deadlifts and reverse hyper extensions are great for the butt.

[empresscat]

Actually, I'd say to use a bar with weights.

Start off with a light bar, a bodybar if your gym has them, then work up to the full-size olympic bar. You want sexy, muscular calves, thighs, and glutes (like Lara Croft)? You need to add weight.

This will also allow you to reduce the number of repetitions, and save you time in the gym. I've only been squatting for a couple of weeks, and a full size barbell with 25 lbs on either end is easy for me.

[ratmonkey]

your knees will stop hurting when you find the proper stance for your feet and are able to keep your weight centered over your heels.

start with your feet just beyond shoulder width apart with your toes pointing slightly outward. work your stance outward or inward as needed. and don't use shoes with lots of heel and arch support.

[imperfectly_lou]

Done correctly, you shouldn't feel any knee pain with barbell squats. I had knee surgery about 5 years ago and actually found my knee improved post surgery once I built up the muscle around it. I've been squatting ever since with no pain

[John Prophet]

I would think that leaning back with the back against a ball would put MORE pressure on the knee


I have an alternative suggestion:

Take a medicine ball 6-10lbs...hold it out at arms length in front of you....then squat

with the squat, there are 2 joints involved....the knee joint, which is the one everyone focuses on...and the hip joint, which people forget

all of the weight of the squat will be distributed between those 2 joints.....so it is basic math, the more weght you can get the hip joint to use, the less the knee joint will have to use

also, your goal of working the butt fits in exactly with taking stress off the knees

here is what you need to do

when you squat...your FIRST move should be to start sticking the butt and hips out straight backwards...like sitting in a chair almost......you are "sitting back"....you will probably have to lean the torso forward some to counterbalance the whole motion.....this is why I suggest the medicine ball held out front....it will help you balance

me personally I cant exactly duplicate my squat motion with just my bodyweight....I need weight on my back to lend the proper balance.....but I can come fairly close with a medicine ball held out in front


what you DONT want to do when you squat...is let your first move be to break the knees downward/forward....what I call 'collapsing with the knees'.....if you do THAT you will end up with almost ALL the pressure of the squat on the knee joint....not good

if you "sit back" you will end up with more weight on the heels, less on the toes.....by doing this you will be using more butt, hams, less thighs (hence, less knee pressure)


another way that I do bodyweight squats (I use em to warm up when i first walk into the gym)...is to just grab hold of a power rack or machine with both hands held out in front of me....I sort of lean back slightly and squat...this gets the weight back on the heels and I can "sit back" into my hams etc

if you squat in the way I describe your shins will almost stay vertical and when you are at parallel the knees are still only at about a 90 degree angle......if you "cave in at the knees" to start your squat, the knees end up crunched to like 120 degrees or something with WAY more weight and pressure on them

as someone mentioned before, it will help you to widen your stance out a little.....and if you want to use/work your hips them widen it WAY out there like a powerlifter...it feels weird at first but it is a decent way to squat for some people.....you have to maybe go deeper gradually if you widen it WAY out because the hips might be a little tight at first

last point, bar position does come into play....for this style of squat you dont want the bar way up on the traps, you want it down a little from there....more like sitting on your rear delts, or just below the traps

to recap:

widen stance

START the squat with the hip joint FIRST...by moving the butt/hips backwards

sit BACK and let the weight ease back more towards the heels

you will probably have to lean forward some to balance the sitting back motion


Good Luck, JP

[John Prophet]

this was the first one I ran across with half decent form...(his form changes after the first rep, lol)..you can see that he is bringing the hips and butt back...therefore his shins arent leaning forward all THAT much..so there isnt that much pressure on his knees http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD-fIsm48UM he is lettign his back "round over" a little...he needs to work harder on keeping a tight arch....I am not sure of his bar position, but I bet its on the high side...I think he'd be better to bring it slightly lower

this is what you DONT want to do....break the knees FIRST and sit straight down....notice how far forward his shins lean at the bottom....LOTS of knee pressure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oJjjmGGNVU also notice his bar position....way up on his traps......oh yeah....his buddy has no clue how to spot, lol....what is he going to do if the squatter blows a ham or knee and collapses, a front lateral with 225???


for the heck of it....here is another one...this one is sort of "mixed"....he breaks the knees forward first and THEN sort of sits back but its too late by then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TK671oe2Ac notice how as the reps add up his form gets worse....his butt starts to come up first while the head stays down for a split second....the last couple are closer to Good Mornings than squat...again, notice the forward knee lean.

The forward knee lean is ok for olympic squatters.....they have extreme ankle/knee/hip flexibility and can squat with very upright torsos and they can get away with a lot of forward knee lean....then again a lot of them are hobbling around at 40

here is a guy doing DEEP box squats...he goes way below parallel....when you do that you are going to get SOME forward lean in the shins...but he doesnt get much..he is very flexible.....pause it when he is near parallel....look how far his sits back with the butt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef7A6UIG4hE pause it right when he starts down....the butt goes way back....knees barely move

this is a powerlifting squat...dude has a squat suit on...he only has 315 so that probably isnt enough weight to make the suit "give" enough for him to reach parallel....its also why he goes so slow......notice how wide his stance is....how far he sits "back"....and how vertical his shins stay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jg1Mv64ifk

[Alinta]

wow that is a lot of info John Prophet, thanks *adds to your rep* I might just go and try squatting again right now...

[empresscat]

Thank you, John, for that excellent information.