Usnic Acid

**Jennie** · 01-16-2003, 04:24 PM

To all of you who are sold on Usnic Acid, I want to share a little about my story as kind of a "wake up call":

I began taking Usnic Acid in October 2002 and I am thankful to be typing this letter today........

Took 250 mgs twice a day for two weeks, stopped for two weeks and then was on my third day of the second cycle when my health began to fail. On October 26, I was taken off work by my PCP stating I had hepititis like symptoms and needed rest. By November 5, after seeing a Gasterointerologist specialist I was admitted to a local Memorial Hospital. I remember that day only, by November 7, I was in ICU and had lapsed into a coma. I was in complete liver failure and they had estimated that my liver was functioning at 2%. They could not tell my family how much longer I had but I was placed as #1 on the liver transplant list and the doctor's had put me on life support with a monitor in my brain monitoring my brain activity.

The doctor told my family that he could not tell them how long I had until they opened me up but could not open me up until they had a donor organ. On November 12, at 1:00 p.m., I went in for a liver transplant. My donor was an 8-year-old little boy who saved my life. After the surgery, the doctors came out to talk with my family and told them I had less than 24 hours left.

The doctors at UCLA Medical Center have confirmed that Usnic Acid was the complete reason I went into liver failure. They cannot tell why it happened to me nor can they tell anyone else if it will happen to them. I am working very hard to get this stuff outlawed because if it saves one more life, it will be worth it. I suggest all of you who are having such a great time with this, go to your primary care physician and just ask them to do a screening of your liver...........better to be safe than sorry!

**Patuba** · 01-16-2003, 05:09 PM

Sorry to hear about the medical problems you encountered. Did you show any signs of liver problems while you were taking Usnic Acid? Did you take anything that helps protect the liver, like ALA or Milk Thistle?

I'm curious cause I just started taking Sodium Usniate yesterday and am now more skeptical of taking it. I knew of potential liver problems but I've never heard of anything as severe as your case. I started Milk Thistle at the same time to hopefully counteract any liver problems.

**Tantalus** · 01-16-2003, 05:24 PM

Did this story get any press? I was just wondering if you had any links.

I'm sorry to hear it & am glad you're still around. A little disturbing to think I'd been considering a cycle.

**Big Daddy Chemo** · 01-16-2003, 05:26 PM

Have the docs at UCLA medical center write up their findings and submit them to peer review journals as this is precedent work. Also, please acquire a hard copy and distribute it so that all may know.

Chemo

**Biggin** · 01-16-2003, 06:10 PM

Intense story. Glad you were healthy enough to post it, and welcome to the boards by the way. Care to share more about yourself, if you don't mind? Nutrition, health background, training/dieting styles and history, other supplementation etc? What made you choose UA and what was the rest of your diet like when you were cycling it? I think these things would be important to include in your warning, and any future warnings you wish to post here or elsewhere. I for one am quite curious.

**wanna hump?** · 01-16-2003, 07:58 PM

I don't believe it

**ugotme** · 01-16-2003, 08:23 PM

I'm inclined not to either.

**Kow** · 01-16-2003, 08:31 PM

I believe it, but I think she had some kind of preexisting conditions. I don't think that UA or SU would cause this in a healthy person, especially at those relatively low doses.

Glad to hear you're alright, though.

**Biggin** · 01-16-2003, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Kow
I don't think that UA or SU would cause this in a healthy person, especially at those relatively low doses.

I don't really think so either, but the question then becomes: If you are unhealthy/have preexisting conditions, what are you doing taking something so potent in the first place? This is why I asked for this info to be added so people would be able to grasp the whole picture, as it were... perhaps we will receive an addition

perhaps

**Monte Cristo** · 01-16-2003, 10:04 PM

A couple of links:

http://www.kfmb.com/healthcast/details.php?storyID=7084

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

**p_zub** · 01-17-2003, 12:11 AM

I don't believe this either. Its not that I'm a cold person, but I think that its easy enough, as others have said, to post anything. Even if Its true, its also important to note other details such as height, weight, diet, use of some commonly used OTC drugs known to be toxic on the liver (i.e. Tylenol, alcohol). Maybe her liver was already in a rough state and the usnic acid was just enough to finish the job.

**Soje** · 01-17-2003, 02:15 AM

I heard of Usnic Acid after I ask for information on a product called Lipogenesis from ICON Laboratories. Sold at this site: http://www.davepalumbo.com/products.htm
This product however contains only 10mg pr pill. That is less, by far, than the other Usnic Acid products mentioned in this thread.

Does anyone have links to or copies of documents that show results in tests wich dosage is harmful or not. I mean, everything is dangerousis large enough doses. Even overeating is dangerous. This stuff has been around the last 20 years or so, so finding a doc or two should be manageable for the right person.

If I want to use a product, I don't want it to be a hormone, drug or a steroid product. Usnic Acid is non of that. Most diet supplements is based on ephedrin or thyroid hormone.

Is there anyone that has used this product for a long time and at wich dosage and if so, did you use any antioxidants at the same time, Vitamine E or ALA or the likes?

Regards Soje

**shpongled** · 01-17-2003, 06:22 AM

I think it's good to be skeptical and all, but I think this is legitimate, especially since there are similar cases. I also think, better safe than sorry. Until there's evidence to the contrary I'd think it would be best to assume it's true. Of course, it is possible that these liver failures are for completely unrelated reasons. But this still warrants serious consideration.

David

**Soje** · 01-17-2003, 06:45 AM

I do agree with you David, better safe than sorry.

I haven't seen Unsic Acid in Norway yet so there might be a reason for that.

What I tried to assume is that Unsic Acid gets toxic in high doses like certain vitamines do. All toxic substances in the body goes through the liver and makes it work very hard to get rid of them. Just ask an alcoholic. Vitamins don't harm the liver in moderate dosages, maybe Unsic Acid won't either. That's the reason for me asking if there are any documented tests of which amounts are harmless or not. Maybe Unsic Acid aren't bad for the liver in small doses (=10-30mg) a day. But then again maybe such a small dose is not enough to give good enough results in diet circumstances.

Soje

**Jennie** · 01-17-2003, 08:30 AM

Thank you everyone for your feedback, those of you who do not believe are taking a very large risk with your life. Going through what I have been through I thought it was my duty to let all of you know....I figured this would be the best place to tell the story.

Some of you asked if I had any pre-existing conditions, the answer to that is "no". I had just had a physical before beginning the supplement and everything came back completely normal. I have never been hospitalized with the exception of during the birth of my 4 year old son. I have no liver, heart, lung conditions in my family. No evidence of high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.

My eating habits during my cycle were very good, high protein, low carb, lots of water. Yes, I was losing weight, don't get me wrong but I lost a lot more than that in the end.

Height: 5' 0"
Weight: at time of cycle 127, now 102.5 (lost weight during 2 week coma)

I am a very active person attending the gym at least 4 times/week prior to my sickness. I am now 9 weeks post op and am still limited to lifting only 15 pounds due to my incision not being completely healed.

Some of you asked about whether UCLA was publishing anything relating to this and the answer is yes, they have an ongoing investigation headed by Dr. Franisco Durazo, he can be reached at UCLA in Los Angeles (10945 Le Conte Ave, Room 2114 PVUB, Los Angeles, CA 90095. My surgeon's name was Dr. Busitill and he can be reached at the same address.

The New York Times will be publishing an article on my story within the next two weeks or so in the "Health" section of the paper and 20/20 will be doing a story on me in late February.

If any of you would like specific questions answered, you can email me directly at jrosenthal@alliance.com, I would be more than happy to share in detail my experience. If it can save just one person from having to go through what I went through, it is worth it.

**TheCSWFighter** · 01-17-2003, 01:43 PM

Personally i think this is a scam. I read what this person said and what the infromation on the sites said. Now I am not sure if there first link was related to this but the second link spounded almost exactly like the same story this woman told us. 44 year old daughter, Ucla, liver transplant and all. What made me curious were the dates of the organtransplants were on idfferent days. I doubt the jouralist would get the date wrong on a story this big considering how big the whole ephedra thing was. And i doubt if this really happened the woman would forget the day her life was save.d Also the woman tellingn us the story was 5'0 and now 102.5 where as the other woman is 4'8 and even lighter. Also the article says after two weeks and the woman said the thrid day of her second cycle. I smell a scam because these dates all seem drastically close and the stories seem awfully similar wiht the child and so on and UCLA. Wait a second it was a friend of hers but i doubt he would get the info wrong on that. Think what you will but i feel this is a scam. just more money to make after the whole ephedra thing....it's saddening. Next think you know they'll be say jogging or walking can kill you.

**Jennie** · 01-17-2003, 02:03 PM

To: CSWFighter

I understand your concerns. Perhaps this person that you are speaking of is my friend. He does not have all of the details of my surgery so perhaps he has everything a bit mistaken.

I am not trying to scam anyone, I am not trying to benefit from posting this information nor am I trying to talk anyone out of taking this supplement. I feel like it is my responsibility to tell you the negative effects of this supplement just as the people who posted the positive comments wanted to let everyone know that they had good results.

Take away from this article what you will and I have to live with the fact that this has happened to me, not anyone else.

I am just asking those of you who are taking this supplement to be cautious and keep an eye on your bodies!

**bender** · 01-17-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Jennie
To: CSWFighter

I understand your concerns. Perhaps this person that you are speaking of is my friend. He does not have all of the details of my surgery so perhaps he has everything a bit mistaken.

I am not trying to scam anyone, I am not trying to benefit from posting this information nor am I trying to talk anyone out of taking this supplement. I feel like it is my responsibility to tell you the negative effects of this supplement just as the people who posted the positive comments wanted to let everyone know that they had good results.

Take away from this article what you will and I have to live with the fact that this has happened to me, not anyone else.

I am just asking those of you who are taking this supplement to be cautious and keep an eye on your bodies!

I appreciate you posting this Jennie. People tend to look for black & white answers to these things.Is it safe or not?...Yes or no.

The reality is...humans are very complex and we all respond differently to things. Regarding safety issues....they way people respond is more related to the bell-shaped curve rather than a simple yes-no answer. Most people will experience a few or minor sides to a given substance but there will always be a few (in the small part of the curve) that experience severe and even life threatening reactions as you did.

There have been several prescription drugs that have been pulled off the market recently because a small percentage of them experienced severe liver toxicity.....some died. The real problem is..you often have no way of knowing in advance if you'll be one of the unlucky ones or not. The odds always look good..until you wind up being the unlucky one.

This is not as unusual as people think it is. Some people seem to feel you're a scammmer. If you are....I can't think of what it is you'd be gaining by this.

There are just some people who don't want to face the truth that
there's a danger in using these things and tend to get defensive when anything negative gets said about supps.

I think your post maybe got a few people to reconsider their use of this stuff so well worth the effort IMO............Thx....Bender

**Tantalus** · 01-17-2003, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Jennie
I am just asking those of you who are taking this supplement to be cautious and keep an eye on your bodies!

But it sounds like even that wouldn't have done much good, it happened so fast.

I did consider the idea that this was false, people like to make up stories online. However, I simply don't see how this could be a scam. No attempts to sell anything have been made here.

Oh, and I don't want to get off-topic but journalists screw up all the time. The financial journalists even mislead on purpose.

**1fast400** · 01-17-2003, 02:56 PM

Where did you buy your UA from?

**Jennie** · 01-17-2003, 03:02 PM

I got it out of CA

www.usnicacid.com

He is no longer selling the supplement.

**Weissmuller** · 01-17-2003, 05:21 PM

Okay after looking at this I have noticed a few things. First off for this person height and weight that was a very heafty dose of UA. A male BBer with twice the lean the mass would start at only 250mg for a few days and then after tolerance test would they consider upping the dose. In this case the dose might be relative to a 200 lb male taking 1.5-2.5+ g a day, which is a lot.

Secound off running a restricted diet during a first run of a substance like this is usually not considered a good idea. Espically low carb since substance like SU, UA, DNP, and other uncolpars, only mess with the electron transport of energy through the krebs cycle not the immideiate(sp) energy of glycolosis.

Add to these factors and minor(unnoticicable) existing problems and you've got disaster. A think this user might have just done things to fast and to quick(I've been guiltiy of this many times including my 1st SU cycle) and this may be the reason.

A more conservitve approach should have been 100 mg a day for 3 days while running maintance kcal with atleast 40% carbs and after this tolerance test upping the dose 100 mg every 4 day until desired level is met and kcal can be slowly dropped. Personally I wouldn't recommend low kcal and definatley not low carbs to first time users.

Just my take.

**wanna hump?** · 01-17-2003, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Weissmuller

Just my take.

Agreed.

**Sir Foxx** · 01-17-2003, 07:27 PM

What I want to see or know is, what evidence do the Dr's have that it was the usnic acid that caused the liver failure? Show me the proof, not someone's hypothesis or guess, real proof. Look, every year 150-200 people die from liver failure just due to Tylenol. Is anyone asking for it to be banned? No they are not. Not everyone is going to be able to take everything that is out there. Maybe the usnic acid did cause her liver failure, but that could just be due to her body chemistry, genetic makeup or whatever, point is, a lot of people have taken usnic acid and there has been less than 1% that had problems, and none of them can be proven(other than someones guess) that it was the usnic acid.

That being said, I'm sorry for what happened to you, I really am.

**p_zub** · 01-17-2003, 08:13 PM

I think its always a good thing to be skeptical...and as was mentioned...500 mg/day of UA for a body that's 120ish lbs? I guess that's the lesson in all this and this is also seen with ephedra. Its not the supplement itself that's the issue...its the irresponsible administration that's the problem. If someone has a serious problem and tells a doctor that they're taking a certain supplement, respectable doctor or not, they're known for making such inferences that would further benefit their businesses. If doctors were prescibing ephedra for weight loss instead of Xenical, doctors in general wouldn't be making the 6-7 figures that they are.

**Complete Muscle** · 02-08-2003, 07:27 PM

I have to respond to this thread:

Yes it is true. Yes she bought it from me. I have been contacted by Dr. Durazo of UCLA, not to mention her lawer and a reporter from the NY Times.

I talked to Dr. Durazo for a long time trying to understand why this happenned. It is not dose dependent. She had no prior liver problems. In facr the Doctor said there's absolutely no way to predict who is at risk.

I have had many e-mails and phone calls begging me to continue to sell them usnic acid. I just can't. The odds may be one in millions, but that is one too many in my book... (Tell Jennie her odds are one in a million.)

I would ask the other people selling usnic acid to please stop selling it also. It is the only responsible thing to do. I'm not necessarily pushing for the law to step in. I'm hoping we can educate people and the law won't have to step in.

**pogue** · 02-08-2003, 08:03 PM

Is she sueing you?

**MrMakaveli** · 02-08-2003, 08:04 PM

This is one of the FEW boards I have visited with which U.A. is regard as usable. Hell it even has a bad reputation on ANIMAL's board and he wrote the ****ing DNP manual.

After talking to Mr. X and Huck on Elite, I'm going agree with the orginial poster that its best to stay away from the stuff if you havent tried it already.

I've taken it yes and wont ever again, not because of liver problems but because it didnt do ANYTHING for me.

**2demon2** · 03-04-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Jennie
The New York Times will be publishing an article on my story within the next two weeks or so in the "Health" section of the paper and 20/20 will be doing a story on me in late February.

Indeed, the article covering this appears in today's NY Times.

**Jennie** · 03-04-2003, 04:02 PM

For further information you can tune into the ABC coverage on Good Morning America tomorrow morning there will be a live interview with me and my surgeon.

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