Muscle Milk side effects (glycocyamine) & Poll (Merged)

[ho_124]

I saw this article on T-nation about the side effects of glycocyamine, it is very informative and muscle milk is probably the most popular supplement. Please dont hate.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do...dra?id=1231523

[bmg3255]

I just got back to school recently and my roommate who i didn't see all summer told me he had to stop taking muscle milk because his glycocyamine levels were too high when he got his blood tested.

[uhockey]

Originally Posted by bmg3255

I just got back to school recently and my roommate who i didn't see all summer told me he had to stop taking muscle milk because his glycocyamine levels were too high when he got his blood tested.

LOL. As much as I wish this were true....

Avoid glycocyamine as it can increase homocystein levels which may increase your risk of cardiovascular events.

[Buff_Daddy]

In the study from the article, they talk about a genetic disorder of creatine byosythesis leading to the builduip of guanidinoacetate that causes the neurotoxic effects.

Unless I have this disorder, I'm not throwing out my Muscle Milk.

[uhockey]

Originally Posted by Buff_Daddy

In the study from the article, they talk about a genetic disorder of creatine byosythesis leading to the builduip of guanidinoacetate that causes the neurotoxic effects.

How relevant is that really.

Try this thread, and the one I linked inside it. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=866875

[Buff_Daddy]

Originally Posted by uhockey

Try this thread, and the one I linked inside it. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=866875

Hey Uhockey,

I couldn't find the one you linked inside that thread?

[uhockey]

You didn't read the first whole thread in 7 minutes. It's in there.

[pogue]

I just posted a reply to this in the supps science section. But, here it is again.

http://pogue972.blogspot.com/2006/09...scle-milk.html

[Buff_Daddy]

Originally Posted by uhockey

You didn't read the first whole thread in 7 minutes. It's in there.

First article by Paul Cribb , reference 6, that he had in bold... no mention of glycocyamine supplementation despite him saying so before referecing it in text. No mention of it in the risk factors for increased homocysteine levels.

[Buff_Daddy]

Originally Posted by pogue

I just posted a reply to this in the supps science section. But, here it is again.

http://pogue972.blogspot.com/2006/09...scle-milk.html

Wow that is a very good blog. ! ... I dont even mind the murine model, but the use of a genetic deficiency for comparison... its reminiscent of when people were outcrying against pheny levels in their soda, not realizing you had to have PKU.

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by Buff_Daddy

I found your link, some other guy actually posted it...

First article by Paul Cribb , reference 6, that he had in bold... I downloaded the full text article, no mention of glycocyamine supplementation despite him saying so before referecing it in text. No mention of it in the risk factors for increased homocysteine levels. Again, strong genetic ties.

the issue I have with GAA, is simply...what good is it doing? If you can top off intramuscular creatine stores with 5g / day then why would you EVER want to take even a POTENTIALLY dangerous precursor?

[pogue]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

the issue I have with GAA, is simply...what good is it doing? If you can top off intramuscular creatine stores with 5g / day then why would you EVER want to take even a POTENTIALLY dangerous precursor?

Good point. There is actually another function of GAA though, and that has to do with taking the place of carbs in a creatine based formula to allow it to permeate in the cells. I don't have any studies on hand to back this up though, but that was the original premise of it.

I believe in the original version of SAN Loaded, it included GAA.

[Buff_Daddy]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

the issue I have with GAA, is simply...what good is it doing? If you can top off intramuscular creatine stores with 5g / day then why would you EVER want to take even a POTENTIALLY dangerous precursor?

To be honest I don't know what goods its doing...I don't know enough about creatine byosythesis to know that... but its a far cry from doing no good to being neurotoxic and causing CV complications.

Why risk it? Heck I agree... i would never supplement with glycocyamine, but for the mean time I am going to continue taking Muscle Milk , due to its other ingredients and taste. Its just that T-mag article tried to cause a lot of pandamonium by including an irrelevant study to "prove" a point...that Im not a fan of.

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by pogue

Good point. There is actually another function of GAA though, and that has to do with taking the place of carbs in a creatine based formula to allow it to permeate in the cells. I don't have any studies on hand to back this up though, but that was the original premise of it.

I believe in the original version of SAN Loaded, it included GAA.

thats interesting...in the "glycocyamine...why" thread i don't recall anyone mentioning that...

[ForceLineBacker]

I'm sick of this fear mongering, I seriously doubt anyone has to worry about this unless you have a preexsisting condition. I have been using MM and NO-Xplode both which have it, since they came out and I recently had my blood tested last month and my levels were fine. If you are really that worried, then have your blood tested, which you should do anyway (by a sports lab) to see what minerals you are deficient in also. Win win situation. But, in my opinion this is nothing to worry about, and I will continue to take products with glycocyamine.

And, while I love t-nation, You cannot trust all the writers there, I mean FFS they just had a guy write an article about the "extreme dangers" of creatine, I **** you not.

[ForceLineBacker]

Originally Posted by pogue

I just posted a reply to this in the supps science section. But, here it is again.

http://pogue972.blogspot.com/2006/09...scle-milk.html

Awesome blog post! Reps, I completely agree. Thanks for shedding more light to this.

Also that David Carr guy has had a lot of articles on there that seem to be full of scams and accusations, but nothing really "real."

[JRRBadBoy4Life]

How many people have died, suffered heart attacks, or stroked from Muscle Milk? I don't see any studies with those numbers, I'm assuming zero.

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by JRRBadBoy4Life

How many people have died, suffered heart attacks, or stroked from Muscle Milk? I don't see any studies with those numbers, I'm assuming zero.

its an ingredient that is proven to raise homocysteine levels which can lead to cardiac trouble down the road...
AGAIN, i ask the question, WHY risk it? its a creatine precursor...why not just take creatine?

[JRRBadBoy4Life]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

AGAIN, i ask the question, WHY risk it? its a creatine precursor...why not just take creatine?

Awww, you care about me now. I would never supplement with it separately. I just looked at the label on UN's Horsepower that I have been keeping a log on and that too has it listed, as its last ingredient. Maybe that's what was causing my stomach aches

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by JRRBadBoy4Life

Awww, you care about me now. I would never supplement with it separately. I just looked at the label on UN's Horsepower that I have been keeping a log on and that too has it listed, as its last ingredient. Maybe that's what was causing my stomach aches

of course i care about you JRR

LOL, i am not saying anyone is going to fall over dead from GAA...just that with it being proven to raise homocysteine levels, I would avoid it.

[E-Go]

Originally Posted by bmg3255

I just got back to school recently and my roommate who i didn't see all summer told me he had to stop taking muscle milk because his glycocyamine levels were too high when he got his blood tested.

Look into the new muscle milk colleigate. It's supposed to meet all NCAA testing requirments

[uhockey]

Originally Posted by JRRBadBoy4Life

Awww, you care about me now. I would never supplement with it separately. I just looked at the label on UN's Horsepower that I have been keeping a log on and that too has it listed, as its last ingredient. Maybe that's what was causing my stomach aches

The question remains.....given the plethora of quality options lacking the ingredient, WHY use products that contain it?

[daveburton]

Originally Posted by pogue

Good point. There is actually another function of GAA though, and that has to do with taking the place of carbs in a creatine based formula to allow it to permeate in the cells. I don't have any studies on hand to back this up though, but that was the original premise of it.

I believe in the original version of SAN Loaded, it included GAA.

I belive the below hold the key to your question

1: J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1993 Sep;266(3):1454-62. Links
Antihyperglycemic action of guanidinoalkanoic acids: 3-guanidinopropionic acid ameliorates hyperglycemia in diabetic KKAy and C57BL6Job/ob mice and increases glucose disappearance in rhesus monkeys.Meglasson MD, Wilson JM, Yu JH, Robinson DD, Wyse BM, de Souza CJ.
Metabolic Diseases Research, Upjohn Company, Kalamazoo, Michigan.

To evaluate the long-held concept that acidic guanidines lack glycemic effects, guanidinoalkanoic acids and the biguanide metformin (positive control) were administered to KKAy mice, a model of noninsulin-dependent diabetes. Two acidic guanidines, 3-guanidinopropionic acid (3-GPA) and guanidinoacetic acid, decreased the plasma glucose level; other compounds were ineffective. 3-GPA was more potent than even metformin. Insulin suppression tests in KKAy mice indicated that improved insulin sensitivity was the mode of action for 3-GPA. Glycemic effects in KKAy mice resulted from increased glucose disposal whereas gluconeogenesis, hepatic glycogen content and intestinal glucose absorption were unchanged. 3-GPA's glycemic effect was corroborated in two other models of noninsulin-dependent diabetes. In ob/ob mice, the compound reduced hyperglycemia, polyuria, glycosuria and hyperinsulinemia. In insulin-resistant rhesus monkeys, it increased the disappearance of i.v. glucose. The glycemic action of 3-GPA required the presence of some circulating insulin as well as hyperglycemia because the compound was ineffective in normoglycemic mice, insulinopenic Chinese hamsters and streptozotocin-diabetic rats. These data indicate that acidic guanidine derivatives can ameliorate hyperglycemia in animal models of noninsulin-dependent diabetes. Because acidic derivatives uniquely lack the propensity of guanidine compounds for inducing lactic acidosis, our finding suggests a new approach for developing improved antidiabetes compounds from this chemical class.

[Frank_The_Tank]

Originally Posted by uhockey

The question remains.....given the plethora of quality options lacking the ingredient, WHY use products that contain it?

What about the question of why is it in there to begin with?
Why did the people at cytosport choose to include GAA in the product?
Why is a "creatine precursor" necessary in a protein supplement? Is it just another misthought,potentially dangerous, selling point?
I would assume that cytosport has chemists that researched the ingredient prior to including it in the Muscle Milk formula. But you know what they same about assumptions...

[kjhfa]

Originally Posted by ForceLineBacker

they just had a guy write an article about the "extreme dangers" of creatine, I **** you not.

what article are you talking about? if it is this one

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....icle=295naked2

it never said creatine was dangerous, the dangerous creatine thing was about the controversy over creatine and how many companies are now puting glycocyamine and GPA which are 2 potentially dangerous substances into creatine blends.

[FarEastBeast]

Originally Posted by uhockey

The question remains.....given the plethora of quality options lacking the ingredient, WHY use products that contain it?

I totally see ForceLineBacker's point, but personally I follow this ^^^. While I have used MM in the past and am not overly concerned with glycocyamine, I do have some history of heart disease in my family and I DO now avoid products containing this ingredient.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by uhockey

Avoid glycocyamine as it can increase homocystein levels which may increase your risk of cardiovascular events.

Hello uhockey,

Sorry to go Off -Topic, but does XCEED from Designer Supplements (DS) contain Glycocyamine? I noticed you are a Consultant for Designer Supplements and I was wondering if you could answer this question. Thanks !

[uhockey]

Originally Posted by Joel

Hello uhockey,

Sorry to go Off -Topic, but does XCEED from Designer Supplements (DS) contain Glycocyamine? I noticed you are a Consultant for Designer Supplements and I was wondering if you could answer this question. Thanks !

No sir, we intentionally DID NOT include Glycocyamine in our product, because it is a garbage ingredient and DS is all about quality.

Similarly, great companies like MAN, Gaspari, and Ergopharm have opted to leave this product out of their creatine products.

I can't even fathom why add it to a PROTEIN supplement.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by uhockey

No sir, we intentionally DID NOT include Glycocyamine in our product, because it is a garbage ingredient and DS is all about quality.

Similarly, great companies like MAN, Gaspari, and Ergopharm have opted to leave this product out of their creatine products.

I can't even fathom why add it to a PROTEIN supplement.

What do you think about the overwhelming success of products like NO-XPLODE and Green Bulge, which both contain Glycocyamine?

Does that make your blood boil ?


Here are other Top Sellers that contain Glyco:

Syntrax SWOLE
Dymatize Xpand
S.A.N. V-12 Turbo
Dymatize Energized Xpand
ISS Research

[uhockey]

Originally Posted by Joel

What do you think about the overwhelming success of products like NO-XPLODE and Green Bulge, which both contain Glycocyamine?

Does that make your blood boil ?

No, it just makes me assume people are uninformed and/or don't care about their health.

Then again, I see people eat at the McDonalds in the hospital cafeteria every day, I know people are poorly informed and don't care about their health.

No suprise. The world is full of risk factors, life is just a matter of balancing them and deciding which ones are worth it.