MarkY's attempt to bulk thread

[MarkY]

I enjoy reading all these journals so I thought I would join the ranks. I figure it will keep me motivated and accountable. I’m sure my cyber friends will give me a kick when I need it as well as some encouragement. I think I might be missing out on some fun if I don’t start participating.

In a nutshell, my goal is to increase mass. I’m going to attempt this by doing a slow bulk as I’m not a big believer in gaining a bunch of weight fast and then cutting. I’d rather just bulk slow and keep my bodyfat somewhat respectable.

Quick stats….

Age: 46
Height: 5’7”
Weight: 153 (bodyfat approximately 11%, was callipered at 10.2 a month ago at 150 lbs.

Maintenance calories approximately 2300, will up this to about 2600. My macros are about 35/35/30. I’m hoping that by the end of January 2007, I’ll be up to about 170 with my BF no more than 12%. Then I can spend February, March, and April losing any unwanted BF for the summer. Maybe another abs contest.

I’m planning on doing a 3 day split, but the days will sometimes vary due to officiating high school football. Game days vary so I’ll adjust my workout days accordingly but won’t lift 2 days in a row. Once football is over (Thanksgiving), I’ll be able to do a 4 day split.

The sets listed below are working sets. I was originally just going to do Day 1 and Day 3, but I’ve rearranged some things in my schedule and found some time to squeeze another workout day in. Plus, I found Venuto’s arm blast routine and that sounded fun.

DAY 1:
Squats: 2 x 8
Weighted Chins / Weighted Pullups: 2 x 8
Dumbell Incline Press: 2 x 8
Weighted Dips: 2 x 8
Arnold Press: 2 x 8
Side Raises: 2 x 8
Standing Calf Raises: 2 x 12

DAY 2:
Barbell wrist curls: 3 x 10
A1 – EZ bar Reverse Curl: 3 x 8
A2 – Hammer Curl: 3 x 8
A3 – EZ barbell Curl: 3 x 8

B1 – Tricep Pushdown reverse grip: 3 x 8
B2 – Tricep pushdown (rope): 3 x 8
B3 – Tricep pushdown regular grip: 3 x 8

DAY 3:
Deadlifts: 2 x 8
Dumbell Rows: 2 x 8
Barbell Bench Press: 2 x 8
Lunge: 2 x 10
Leg Curls: 2 x 8
Military Press: 2 x 8
Abs

My cardio consists of one or two 30 minute runs / week in addition to the football.

I’m open to any suggestions or criticisms. I’m a referee, I have thick skin. It feels good to be on board, thanks for any help.

[Hibiscus09]

Hi Mark! Glad to see you starting a journal!

I’m planning on doing a 3 day split, but the days will sometimes vary due to officiating high school football.

God, I love football!!

That's my input for tonight.

[jtroster]

Yeah! New Journal!

Interesting split. You might want to add one more shoulder exercise - naybe to your day 2.

[dbx]

Welcome Mark. Yeah, very interesting split. If you want to add mass I'd consider trying at least 3 sets on most exercises, instead of 2. You also are doing squats one day and then lunges 2 days later. You might want to try to keep certain exercises together on the same day.

For instance, you might want to try these on the same day:
Squats
Deads
Calf raises
Lunges
Leg curls

There are many ways to split, but yours doesn't look to me like it's the most beneficial for you. I'm sure others will help you here.

Anyway, look forward to watching your progress.

[Gunn27]

Great to see you starting a journal.

[MarkY]

Welcome Mark. Yeah, very interesting split. If you want to add mass I'd consider trying at least 3 sets on most exercises, instead of 2. You also are doing squats one day and then lunges 2 days later. You might want to try to keep certain exercises together on the same day.

For instance, you might want to try these on the same day:
Squats
Deads
Calf raises
Lunges
Leg curls

There are many ways to split, but yours doesn't look to me like it's the most beneficial for you. I'm sure others will help you here.

Anyway, look forward to watching your progress.

Thanks for the input. I will probably revise this split in the next week or so. What I was originally going to do was an abbreviated full body routine 2 days a week. Prior to this I was on a 4 day split and my body was getting burned out. I never felt like I fully recovered and my progress was stalled. Then I found Venuto's arm routing and thought I would have some fun with it, so I threw that in there.

What I really want to do is have a good 3 day split. I'll probably have to work out M, W, Sat due to football. I'll also throw a cardio day in there. I've also found that I seem to make more progress if I work the same body part no more than once every 6 days. In other words, I seem to be able to add more weight or do more reps if I've had 5 days to recover. Blasting the same body part more often doesn't seem to work for me.

If I add an additional set, I'll probably cut out one exercise so I'll be doing 18 sets per workout.

Thanks for the help.

[MarkY]

I normally don't work out on Sundays but I have a football exam tomorrow so I did my normal Monday workout today. I did one more set than usual for most everything. Workout took 60 minutes.

Squats - 240 x 8 (3 sets)
Weighted pullups - 20 x 12 (2 sets) 20 x 4 (failure)
Dumbell Incline Press 45 degree - 52.5 x 10 (2 sets), 52.5 x 4 (failure)
Should I do inclines at 30 degree instead if I want to hit the chest?
Weighted Dips - 15 x 12, 15 x 8, 15 x 4
Arnold Press - 40 x 6 (2 sets)
Side Raises - 20 x 10, 20 x 12
Standing Calf Raises - 275 x 12 (3 sets)

I know my split seems odd to some of you but I'm making progress with it. However, I'm open to suggestions on how to make this more beneficial for my goal which is to gain mass. I'm limited to 3 days / week during football season.

Hope everyone's week is a good one.

[jtroster]

I always do inclines at 45 degrees.

[ChocoChick]

Hey Mark, welcome to journaling.

My $.02 is that you are working arms three times a week, which is a lot, especially in light of your comment that you get best results when you've had at least 5 days to rest a part. Also, you've only got one day between day 3 (sat) and day 1 (mon), so if you are looking for a 5-day rest, then you might want to do something more along the lines of an upper/lower split so that the first week it'd be upper/lower/upper and the next lower/upper/lower and so on. This would maintain your 5-day spacing and allow you greater concentration per day.

[kimsquit]

Hi Mark,

I think dbx and dbfl made some good observations. Looking at your 3-day split by bodypart rather than by exercise, it seems a bit unfocused to me:

DAY 1:
Quads
Lats
Upper Chest
Triceps
Shoulders
Shoulders
Calves

DAY 2:
Forearms
Forearms/Biceps
Forearms/Biceps
Biceps
Triceps
Triceps
Triceps

DAY 3:
Hamstrings
Lats
Chest
Quads
Hamstrings
Shoulders
Abs

My overall advice is to restructure all of your days to group bodyparts together but if you want to keep your groupings as they currently are, then I'd recommend revising your split so that bodyparts follow each other in a less random way.

As an example, you could reorganize Day 3 this way while keeping the same bodyparts for that day:

DAY 3:
Quads
Hamstrings
Hamstrings
Shoulders
Chest
Lats
Abs

That way you're starting with your largest leg muscles - which will release more natural test. I tend to work my shoulders before my chest so that they're all warmed up before I bench press - I find it reduces shoulder injuries.



~ Chris

[MarkY]

I’ve decided to use the advice of the more experienced here and change my split a bit. I’ve come up with two different routines.

One is an upper / lower routine that will be done on MWSat or MWT. I will do upper/lower/upper followed by lower/upper/lower the following week.

Upper
Flat Bench: 3x8
Incline Press: 3x8
Weighted Pullup: 2x8
Military Press: 3x8
Tricep Extension: 3x8
Weighted Dips: 2x12
EZ bar curl: 3x8

Lower
Squats: 3x8
Lunges: 2x10
Deadlifts: 3x8
Leg Curls: 3x8
Standing Calve Raises: 2x12

The second routine is a 3 day bodypart split that will also be done on MWSat or MWT.

DAY 1: Chest / Back
Chest
Flat Bench: 3x8
Incline Press: 3x8
Weighted Dips: 2x12

Back
Weighted Chins: 2x8
Deadlifts: 3x8
Barbell Rows: 3x8
Shrugs: 1x10

DAY 3 : Legs
Squats: 3x8
Lunges: 2x10
Leg Curls: 3x8
SLD: 3x8
Calve Raises: 2x12

DAY 5: Shoulders / Triceps / Biceps
Shoulders
Military Press: 3x8
Arnold Press: 3x8
Standing Lateral Raises: 2x10

Triceps:
Narrow Grip Bench: 3x8
Extensions: 2x8

Biceps:
Barbell Curls: 3x8
Hammer Curls: 2x10

Wrist Curls: 2x10

Any comments on these routines would be most appreciated. Since my goal is more size than strength, is one of these routines more favorable than the other? Is there anything I’m missing or something you would change?

Thanks for the help.

[jtroster]

I prefer a 3 or 4 day split over an upper/lower split so I'll comment on your 3 day split.

Chest/Back looks like a real heavy day compared to Shoulders/Arms. You might want to move deadlifts over to Shoulders/Arms. Also, you might want to try alternating push and pull exercises to give a little more time for your muscles to recover so you can hit them harder.

[kimsquit]

Hi Mark

These splits have better structure - good on you for the revisions! I'm personally biased towards "bodypart days" but I know that others have used upper/lower splits with lots of success.

But since I'm not an upper/lower split kinda guy, I'll limit my observations to Routine #2 and leave more experienced folks to comment on Routine #1:

DAY 1: Chest / Back
Chest
Flat Bench: 3x8
Incline Press: 3x8
Weighted Dips: 2x12

Back
Weighted Chins: 2x8
Deadlifts: 3x8
Barbell Rows: 3x8
Shrugs: 1x10

Chest/Back is a tough combo - because it involves some of the heaviest lifts and presses. You may find that by the time you get to your back, you've run out of steam...or you won't have pushed as hard on your chest because you're saving your energy for your back.

An alternative is to switch it up so that it's Chest/Back one day and Back/Chest the next time.

I also suggest moving the deads as your first back exercise (with one or two warm-up sets first) as this is probably the heaviest weight you'll lift with your back and the longer you leave it towards the end, the more likely you'll injury yourself through exhaustion. That way you're also doing your rows right after your pullups.[/QUOTE]

DAY 3 : Legs
Squats: 3x8
Lunges: 2x10
Leg Curls: 3x8
SLD: 3x8
Calve Raises: 2x12

The same applies to your SLDs - I'd do 'em after your Squats and put the lunges as your third quad exercise.

DAY 5: Shoulders / Triceps / Biceps
Shoulders
Military Press: 3x8
Arnold Press: 3x8
Standing Lateral Raises: 2x10

Triceps:
Narrow Grip Bench: 3x8
Extensions: 2x8

Biceps:
Barbell Curls: 3x8
Hammer Curls: 2x10

Wrist Curls: 2x10

It appears that you're doing a lot of front shoulder work here. I've always found that my front delts get sufficient work from my chest exercises, so my delt work is primarily laterals and rears. - and I'm not seeing any rear delt in your plan. Rear delt work will add a lot of strength to your bench, keep your posture upright by pulling your back in tighter and also keep you from getting that "slouched shoulder" look that comes from having overdeveloped front delts.

Hammer curls, like reverse curls, tend to aggravate the elbow joint and the forearm muscles. They're a good exercise, but be mindful of going heavy on them or you may end up sidelined.



~ Chris

[ChocoChick]

I have done and like both the splits you posted. I agree with Chris that on a chest/back day you should alternate starting with chest one time and then back the next. I also agree with his re-ordering of leg exercises.

That said, I prefer the upper/lower split because I think hitting parts once every 4-5 days gives better growth than just once a week. Particularly for an intermediate lifter.

So since no one else has commented on the upper/lower deal, I will.

When I do an upper/lower, I tend to alternate between Upper A and B and Lower A and B.

Upper A
Flat Bench: 3x8
DB Flyes or cable crossovers
Weighted Pullup: 2x8
Seated Row
Military Press: 3x8
Tricep Extension: 3x8
EZ bar curl: 3x8

Upper B
Pull-Ups
Bent Over Rows
Incline Press: 3x8
Dips
Close grip bench
Rear delt raises
Lateral raises

Lower A
Back Squats
SLDL
Lunges
Lying hamstring curls
Standing calf raises

Lower B
Deadlifts
Leg Press
Step-Ups
Seated hamstring curls
Seated calf raises

[Hibiscus09]

I prefer doing two bodyparts per workout, with abs thrown in sometimes and I do like a 4 day split best. I also feel that I benefit more size-wise from working each bodypart once a week. I suppose everyone's different and you have to figure what works out best for you that doesn't feel like overtraining. I know I've read on this site that some people think the concept of overtraining is exaggerated, but my body actually does not like working parts more than once a week and it does wear me out and I don't see growth doing it. If I hit a bodypart sufficiently enough when I train it, it needs the rest. The older I get, the more this is the case.

That being said, many people like doing the upper/lower thing and can handle it just fine.

[Original Poster]

I have never been a fan of Upper and lower body WO's but I know a lot of people use them. Like Hib, I am a firm believer in rest. Intensity yes...but proper rest is a must.

For most people over 35 I'd venture that they can overtrain quite easily (the definition of overtraining being debatable) going on only 4-5 days rest per muscle for too long. A few weeks I can see maybe.....but not much more then that. If someone is on gear, that is a different story.

I guess if someone eats properly sleeps enough (deep rem sleep) doing this type of routine can be fine and produce results. Everyone has to experiment and hopefully they don't loose too much muscle or spin their wheels too long before they find what works for them.

I myself prefer a 4 day split. I did 5 day splits for a while but found 4 day splits to allow my body more recovery, which I seem to need more of as I age. While I am 40 going on 39 (yes, I am going backwards now.....a benefit of being the PAN........LOL) I still need sufficient rest. Otherwise, I burn out and end up hampering my efforts and feeling like ****.

[dbx]

One is an upper / lower routine that will be done on MWSat or MWT. I will do upper/lower/upper followed by lower/upper/lower the following week.

Upper
Flat Bench: 3x8
Incline Press: 3x8
Weighted Pullup: 2x8
Military Press: 3x8
Tricep Extension: 3x8
Weighted Dips: 2x12
EZ bar curl: 3x8

Lower
Squats: 3x8
Lunges: 2x10
Deadlifts: 3x8
Leg Curls: 3x8
Standing Calve Raises: 2x12
.

Now you're talking . I'm partial to this ^ split, as it looks exactly like mine . I do it on a revolving basis of Lower/Upper/rest. In other words, I don't take weekends off. There have been occasions (only a few) where I wish I'd had one more day to rest, but generally, 3 days between sessions for each group is good for me, and I'm 47.

As Dbflgirl pointed out, it's good to switch up on certain exercises even while using the above type routine. For instance, I almost always do all the major compound exercises, but I'll switch stuff like shrugs, lat raises, fwd delt raises, curls, tris etc., on Upper Body day. Leg day is a bit harder for me to change up, as it seems I'm more limited workoing out at home, but it can be done too.

[MarkY]

Decisions, decisions. The last 8 weeks before football started, I was doing a 4 day split (MTTF). Towards the end, I was feeling a lot like Chi-town. Burned out, no intensity, pretty much feeling like crap. I also got a damn twitch in my eye that someone said could be from over training. Not too sure on that.

Up until turkey day, 3 days / week will be all I can handle. I appreciate everyone's input and I'll probably settle on something soon and post it for all to critique. I do know that at 46 and my activity level, I need my rest. Sometimes easier said than done.

I like the idea of working a specific body part only once per week. I seem to make better progress with that. I'm going to review everything and post what I come up with.

Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming if you got them.

[ChocoChick]

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....6-017-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-068-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=293pend2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=217hyp2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=26train
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211more2

[Original Poster]

Decisions, decisions. The last 8 weeks before football started, I was doing a 4 day split (MTTF). Towards the end, I was feeling a lot like Chi-town. Burned out, no intensity, pretty much feeling like crap. I also got a damn twitch in my eye that someone said could be from over training. Not too sure on that.

I have never felt like that. LOL........yes I have. We all live and learn what we can and can't handle.

Good luck with your routine Mark !

[Original Poster]

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....6-017-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-068-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=293pend2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=217hyp2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=26train
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211more2

While I have found many of these articles very interesting, I am still a firm believer that there is NO.... ONE SIZE FITS ALL way to train.


Many of those articles are great reads and have helpd many.

[MarkY]

Well today I just did my arm workout while I decide on what my new routine will be.

Barbell wrist curls: 3 x 10
A1 – EZ bar Reverse Curl: 3 x 8
A2 – Hammer Curl: 3 x 8
A3 – EZ barbell Curl: 3 x 8

B1 – Tricep Pushdown reverse grip: 3 x 8
B2 – Tricep pushdown (rope): 3 x 8
B3 – Tricep pushdown regular grip: 3 x 8

I think I'm going to be able to sqeeze a forth day of workouts in spite of doing football. I'm off work every other Friday, so I think I'll be able to work out MTTF on my off Friday and MTTS on my work Friday.

After doing a ton of reading and the fact that I think I might be able to make some (haven't been lifting all that long) quick gains, I'm leaning towards a 4 day upper/lower. I think I might try a workout similar to what Dbflgirl posted and see where I stand after 4-6 weeks. If I find that I'm burning out, I'll go back to a 3 day split.

I'm planning on starting this new workout late next week. My wife and I are going to La Jolla for a long Labor Day weekend. Need to recharge our batteries.

I'll post the workout when I get it settled. Thanks for all the help.

[Hibiscus09]

Nice workout, MarkY! Good luck on your new plan. Hopefully, you will see the gains you'd like to see.

We're doing the long Labor Day weekend thing also and I'm looking forward to it!

[MarkY]

Thanks Hibi. I referee a football game on Friday night, then my wife and I will be heading for the coast Saturday morning. I might even eat some abnormal food. We're supposed to go to a BBQ with some friends and there's no telling what all they'll have.

[Hibiscus09]

That sounds like fun. I have to make my football days my cheat meals this Fall. I prepare the food for our tailgate experience and my family and friends would not be too amused if I showed up with healthy fare.

Be sure to send positive vibes to my Gamecocks -- they play on Thursday evening on ESPN!

Happy Wednesday!

[MarkY]

Be sure to send positive vibes to my Gamecocks -- they play on Thursday evening on ESPN!

Happy Wednesday!

Happy Wednesday to you too. Positive vibes sent.

My Sun Devils play on Thursdy as well. Go Cocks, Go Devils.

[MarkY]

Today was a cardio day.

Brisk 1/2 mile run followed by six 100 yard sprints. I can't let those high school kids make me look too bad on Friday night. Felt good.

[jaguarr]

I like the looks of the adjusted split, Mark. Give it a few weeks and see how it goes and evaluate whether you need to make any more tweaks or not.

jag

[MarkY]

Today was my last workout before heading out of town for several days. I'll start my new program late next week. I was interrupted by some personal issues today and had to cut the workout a tad short.

Deadlifts:
205 x 8
205 x 8
205 x 8

Dumbell Rows:
52.5 x 8
52.5 x 8
52.5 x 8

Flat Bench:
165 x 7
165 x 7
165 x 4 (failure)

Dumbell Extensions:
40 x 10
40 x 10

I've been doing a bit more reading and I'm thinking of trying one of Tom Venutto's workouts from BFFM. It would be a three day split that I would work MTTS. That way I'm hitting each body part about every 5 days. My body seems to respond well to this. I'm bringing my laptop with me on vacation so I should have my new workout posted this weekend.

I've also increased my calories about 300 per day. Over the past three weeks I've gained a whopping 2 pounds . No change in the way my pants fit so maybe I'm growing somewhere (albeit sloooooowly) other than my waist.

[MarkY]

Good morning all. My wife and I are in La Jolla just kind of relaxing. Didn't do much of any working out other than a nice hike we went on. It has been nice to be in 75 degree weather instead of the usual 100+ we've been having in Phoenix.

I hope to post my new workout later today or tomorrow. Hope everyone is having a nice long weekend.