How come powerlifters (specifically ryan kennelly, and scott mendelson) have physiques that look as fully developed as bodybuilders, even though they dont train the same way? from watching clips from road to the arnold
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIFbS_lNEDo) it seems ryan has a thick back and a lot of thickness and density on the back of his traps. in his pictures he looks like he has a lot of shoulder width, etc.
could it be that powerlifting training is better at developing the body than bodybuilding training? Or would powerlifters like ryan look crappy compared to guys like lee priest once they shed off all the fat.
Ive seen an article about a powerlifter going from 300 something to about 260 or 240, and he didnt look like much, but could that be because he has no experience in cutting, like bodybuilders do? I'll try to find that article.
08-24-2006, 01:16 PM #1
Bodybuilder physiques V.S. Powerlifter physiques
08-24-2006, 01:18 PM #2
i, and many other bodybuilders, train like powerlifters. can't answer your question specifically about the individuals you chose and whatnot... i eat like a bodybuilder, train like a powerlifter, and add in some bb movements.. isolations and whatnot. I found I got way thicker, way faster, training in a powerlifter sense.245 pounds- transitioning into cutting
08-24-2006, 01:24 PM #3
In general a powerlifter's physique is...simpler. They don't care about their inner biceps being in proportion to their outter biceps or to their brachialis. They don't care about their long triceps being in proportion to their outter triceps. They don't care that their lower chests are fuller than the upper chests, nor that most of the mass is going to the outside of it, they don't care about their quad sweep...they just worry about training the bench, the deadlift and the squat, and then doing basic assistance exercises for the main muscles involved in those. So they grow too, yeah, though usualy not as fast as a bodybuilder and not nearly in the same proportions.
Plus you're using genetic freaks as representatives. You shouldn't do that. You have to keep in mind that people who are naturaly predisposed to growing muscle will probably do well eyther way - bodybuilding or powerlifting. Ronnie is currently the biggest thing in BBing but who knows if he had gone powerlifting 10 years ago if he wouldn't be the biggest thing in PLing, ya know?
08-24-2006, 01:25 PM #4
08-24-2006, 01:34 PM #5
floor presses, chained presses, board presses etc for benching
a lot of movements by Dave Tate for triceps--- using flex bands is big
before knee surgery, different variations of squats and rep schemes (10-13 sets of 3 reps for three weeks, then three weeks of 20 rep sets)
accessory days to improve grip for better control of the weights and obviously overall grip
for back, its a lot of deadlifting, goodmornings, rows, t-bar rows, diffrenet things like that
powerlifting is basically just all compound movements and different variations of them. I've learned SO much by reading things by Louie Simons and Dave Tate, go over to eliteFTS.com and read around...
If you can get Louie's podcast for bodybuilders, listen to all of it..
I vary my reps. 3-6 for some, 6-8 for others, 8-10 for some, and 10-12... its all different, for different weeks...
one of the biggest things I learned is to never do the same movement for three straight weeks.... for instance, lets say you were doing back...
one arms rows
then you'd do that weeks 1-3, and then 4-6 you'd do something completly different
different version of shrugs (dummbell, barbell, behind you, infront of you, shrug V bars)
all kinds of stuff for bodybuilders in powerlifting. something like that, you know? I see WAY to many people doing the same thing week after week, month after month....
add things in like farmers walk to your program... you wouldnt believe how good they work til you do em.245 pounds- transitioning into cutting
08-24-2006, 01:59 PM #6
You can see the difference in physiques by simply looking at different bodybuilders. Look and Johnnie Jackson and Branch Warren, who are super thick, but could have better seperation. They both train powerlifting, specifically JJ, then a lot of the top pro's do high rep work after they've already added a lot of mass. A lot of people say this is a problem with JJ, if he trained differently he would be a better bb, but he enjoys powerlifting as well.Reentering
08-24-2006, 02:03 PM #7Originally Posted by Team Benchpress
Look at some of the top bodybuidlers....
arnold, franco, lou, yates, zane, coleman, nasser, flex, haney, etc.
most of the best focused on major compound movements and focused on getting stronger at them. This isn't a coincidence. You build that thick, dense, mature muscle with heavy compounds and patience.
how the hell do you train anyway???? do you just do isolation exercises all the time??
08-24-2006, 02:10 PM #8
08-24-2006, 02:21 PM #9
08-24-2006, 02:21 PM #10
no need to **** on the kid
dude, do both.. see which one you like better, and go with it... eat like a bodybuilder, either way you train, youre gonna wanna do the big 3.. which you are, so try both bro...
go over to elitefts.com with questions about powerlifting or go to the section in the forum. any questions just PM me.
Johnnie Jackson not only enjoys powerlifting, but is a really good powerlifter too. And he can't be too bad of a bodybuilder if hes endorsed, advertised in both powerlifting and bodybuilding, and is doing ok in the olympia.... you have to be exceptional to even reach the olympia, whether you come in first or last, youre a good bodybuilder, know what i mean?
- everyone keep hittin em hard,
Jeff245 pounds- transitioning into cutting
08-24-2006, 02:27 PM #11
08-24-2006, 02:27 PM #12
you need to do a study for two types of muscle growth
most powerlifters never go abve 5 reps...they get mostly myofibrillar (actual muscle fiber) growth...so they are really dense
bb'ers can also train heavy like that, but they also train with higher reps....so they get a lot of growth of the sarcoplasm...the "juice" or "goo" in the muscles, lol....so they get the "puffy" or "round" look...the "pumped" look
plus...lets be real here.....a lot of powerlifters rarely or never do bicep work.....they probably never do side laterals or leg extensions
go to a PL meet....I lifted in 3 of them last year....look at the legs....98% of them will have huge outer thighs...but no teardrops......they dont do leg extensions....usually dont do front squats, dont do anything with the heel elevated...they dont need to
so there are definitely 2 different looks going on when you compare bb'ers to pl'ers
one area where pl'ers are usually better is traps...funny thing is...some of them never do shrugs, lol...let alone db shrugs....they do deads/rack pulls.....maybe a lessen there
personally, i would recommend that everyone do a little powerlfiting in their first 3 years or so of lifting....it will make your form extremely solid and also tends to make you more focused on realistic goals and methods as opposed to the junk the bb mags peddle (like wow dude, I got this monnnnster pump from my do rag and gakic)
the average teenager reading mags just has zero clue how to train....im not being ugly but its the truth.....I watch em train in my gym and its sad..all the bs preacher curls for 13" arms, cable this cable that.....then you watch em try to do a squat or dead or even a tbar row and they have no core strength and they fold like an accordian......if they hooked up with a PL crowd for a couple years theyd be off to a solid start
I powerlfited all last year....good stuff, fun...I learned a lot because I did westside for a while and thru that I learned about the Russian manuals etc.....but this year I am back "bb'ing" because I need the variety and I want to develop all my muscle groups....yes, I care what I look like.
Also...I want the challenge....to see what I can do appearance-wise...trust me..its a big challenge, lol
what is the ideal approach????
the ideal approach is to not be limited and boxed-in by vague terms such as "bodybuilder" or "powerlifter"......just decide what YOU want to be....then look around and figure out how to get there
Last edited by John Prophet; 08-24-2006 at 02:29 PM."Humility comes before honor"
08-24-2006, 02:29 PM #13
08-24-2006, 02:46 PM #14
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08-24-2006, 02:51 PM #15
Here's a pic of some of the top strongmen in the world. I personally feel that the European strongmen have more "classic" look being taller, having a belly, more body fat etc (EXCEPT Pudianowski OK). The US strongmen look leaner, a more "steroid" sort of look. It's damn hard to weigh around 300lbs and have veins, cuts etc - just like bb'ers.
MOST strongmen have a high body fat % and especially some gut fat which helps with supporting the core in the heavy lifts. SAVICKAS is less famous then Mariusz over here BUT he beats him most of the time in THE WORLD STRONGMAN SUPER SERIES which is for the elite http://www.savickas.lt/index.php?id=27,136,0,0,1,0 I think he weighs around 350lbs!!! WOW!!!!
SAVICKAS was a powerlifter before a strongman champ like most strongmen, here's his BIO http://www.savickas.lt/index.php?id=14 He was breaking records at the age of THIRTEEN O)(O
Last edited by He-Man; 08-24-2006 at 02:54 PM.
08-24-2006, 05:11 PM #16
08-24-2006, 08:28 PM #17
08-24-2006, 08:54 PM #18
accessory day they do bicep work. biceps play a part in their benching. they don't do peak work, typically. different PLs do different things. fat bar curls are big in PL. they don't do side laterals, but you can add them in. Some PLs dont do much for shoulders, others go ape ****. so....245 pounds- transitioning into cutting
08-24-2006, 09:13 PM #19
08-24-2006, 09:28 PM #20
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08-24-2006, 10:19 PM #21
Ill be honest.....I hate cliches....I hate being labeled or fitted neatly into one category or description......so I like the guys who seem to defy description....they are originals and they "crossover" into several categories
just a few off the top of my head
Jon Pall Sigmarsson...powerlifting, bodybuilding, Oly lifting....and, uhmm, what was that other thing he did???..oh, yeah...won the worlds strongest man 4 times. He died deadlifting. You havent lived until you hear the soundclips of him screaming "I am the strongest, I am the viking!!"
Anatoly Pisarenko. Beat Vaselli Alexeevs lifts but still had a great athletic looking body. They called him the "Schwarzenegger from Ukraine." Fate denied him an easy gold medal when the Russians boycotted the Olympics in 1980...no one on the world was close to his lifts. Now, instead of being a run down, poor, embittered ex Athlete...he is very active in promoting Ukrainian weightlifting
John Grimek. You just dont get any more classic than that. Do yourself a favor and check thru that gallery. UNDEFEATED bodybuilder. This was before they even HAD categories anyway, lol. They weightlifted, did bodybuilding before it was called that.....these guys were artists. . If you showed em a feat of strength or issued a challenge...they made it a point of honor to meet the challenge. They did it all."Humility comes before honor"