GABA Pre-workout??

[Amino89]

I've searched and searched and found little on GABA supplementation pre-workout all the threads were for nighttime induce of sleep. How many mg./g. are taking pre-workout? How come pre-workout formulas do not include this in their ingredient list if it's so good? I have never heard this until I saw pu12eng recommend it pre-workout.

[hvit]

I've never heard of pre-workout GABA before, but if somebody chimes in as to why it'd be beneficial I'd love to try it.

[Power_Lifter88]

Sure u don't mean Glutamine? Im really not sure why you would take GABA Pre-workout...more info plz

[johnnyironboard]

I take GABA before bed to fall aspleep- I don't think Preworkout would work well for me.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by Amino89

I've searched and searched and found little on GABA supplementation pre-workout all the threads were for nighttime induce of sleep. How many mg./g. are taking pre-workout? How come pre-workout formulas do not include this in their ingredient list if it's so good? I have never heard this until I saw pu12eng recommend it pre-workout.

"The precise nature of GABA's effects as well as its mechanism of action remains to be clarified."

For starters, I wouldn't recommend experimenting with it until you are at least 18-21.... I think I said that it was worth a try or something, because it's dirt cheap

Anyways, on topic (and I'm sure the usual haters will start flaming) in theory it MAY (in gram doses) enhance the natural hormonal response to lifting... and if it doesn't.. just use it pre-bed for a nice sedative effect. If it does work, I think that timing may be key because you will want to be leaving the gym by the time the sedative effects kick in.

The fact is that more research is needed on most of the supplements on the market.

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise: Volume 35(5) Supplement 1 May 2003 p S271
THE EFFECTS OF GAMMA AMINOBUTYRIC ACID ON GROWTH HORMONE SECRETION AT REST AND FOLLOWING EXERCISE
[F-12L FREE COMMUNICATION/POSTER ERGOGENIC AIDS]

Powers, M E.1; Borst, S E.1; McCoy, S C.1; Conway, R1; Yarrow, J1

1University of Florida, Gainesville, FL

Gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) is a neurotransmitter that plays a key role in growth hormone (GH) secretion. GABA is manufactured and sold as an ergogenic aid with the claim that GH secretion will increase following ingestion.

PURPOSE

To examine the GH and immunofunctional GH (IFGH) response to GABA ingestion during resting and exercise conditions.

METHODS

Seven resistance trained males (21.33±1.28 yrs, 176.75±4.07 cm, 81.12±10.63 kg) participated in four randomly ordered testing conditions; rest following placebo ingestion, rest following GABA ingestion, exercise following placebo ingestion, and exercise following GABA ingestion. Subjects ingested capsules containing either 3-g of GABA or a sucrose placebo after initial venous blood samples were taken. During the resting conditions, the subjects remained in a reclined position while blood samples were taken every 15-min for a total of 90-min following ingestion. During the exercise conditions, each subject performed a resistance exercise protocol immediately following ingestion. This consisted of a single set to failure with 70% of a previously determined 1-RM for 11 different exercises separated by a 1-min rest period. Blood samples were again taken immediately following exercise and every 15-min during a 90-min recovery period. ELISA was performed to determine serum levels of GH and IFGH.

RESULTS

GABA ingestion had no effect on resting levels of GH and IFGH. A significant increase in GH [F(6,36)=.3.32, p = .010] was observed following exercise with a greater increase observed when GABA was ingested. GH levels were significantly greater following GABA ingestion, as compared to placebo ingestion, 15- and 30-min post exercise. A significant increase in IFGH was also observed following exercise [F(6,36)=2.76, p = .026], however GABA ingestion did not have an effect on this measure.

CONCLUSION

While no changes were observed in a resting state, the results of this study partially support claims that GABA increases GH secretion, as greater levels of GH were observed following exercise when GABA was ingested.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by gymbuff

GABA pre workout is AMAZING and i absolutely love it, if you have never had it pre workout deffinatly give it a try!

GYMBUFF superstack log / review:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=928060

[my_whey]

Good stuff PU12, appreciated. I remember you telling me a while back the different way you took GABA.... I haven't gotten around to try it that way yet but I definatly will.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by my_whey

Good stuff PU12, appreciated. I remember you telling me a while back the different way you took GABA.... I haven't gotten around to try it that way yet but I definatly will.

Give it a try, and keep a log / journal if possible ! The effects may seem subtle at first, so give it time

[Da Swede]

I like to take GABA pre workout, better pump and recovery for me.
I also "balance" the sedative effect by taking 1 Amp and 2 Red Acid, it's a great combo.

[CONTROLLED LABS]

Originally Posted by Da Swede

I like to take GABA pre workout, better pump and recovery for me.
I also "balance" the sedative effect by taking 1 Amp and 2 Red Acid, it's a great combo.

interesting approach.

[LI GUY 1]

Old thread I know but I thought I could add.

I have used 3 grams GABA pre workout for 4 workouts and it has worked good IMO. I felt the skin flush but did not get tired. After the workout I was very relaxed, like an endorphin rush, but not tired.
I have used GABA pre bed a few times and it did help with sleep.

Do not try GABA pre cardio, I did for a sprint workout and wanted to kill myself, chest pains and tingly flush resulted.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by Da Swede

I like to take GABA pre workout, better pump and recovery for me.
I also "balance" the sedative effect by taking 1 Amp and 2 Red Acid, it's a great combo.

Stimulants block a % of GABA receptors depending on dose and substance

[ElMariachi]

I have been taking GABA, melatonin and tyrosine pre-workout for a couple of weeks now, and I've noticed that my recovery has definitely improved a lot more from where it was. I'm going to go further with some more punishing workouts to really test this out, but it seems to have worked thus far, and no sleepiness/exhaustion to speak of.



*As mentioned, you really don't want to be mixing stimulants with GABA, kind of defeats the whole purpose.

[TheNameless]

GABA is in whiteflood right...

[jason1052004]

I take about 4g of GABA pre-w/o. It gives a niacin flush for a bit, and can cause a shortness of breath. The shortness of breath can affect cardio, I enjoy the flush at it feels somewhat cleansing to me, and I get a good pump from it. The pump doesn't last as long for me as NO products. Here is some info being discussed in another thread about taking it, and in high doses it might be neurotoxic.

Originally Posted by fitnecise

Caveat:

GABA(A) receptors mediate GH release- too bad that significantly agonizing these receptors causes neuron death. GABA is meant to be a very short lived neurotransmitter in times of stress, if you are increasing it frequently (natural response to stress, benzos, alcohol, etc) it is neurotoxic. Maybe at supplemental levels. It is something that needs more attention, I believe nitric oxide and glutamate for example (probably a bunch more) are closely tied and parallel its release. We can't just see that there is a small GH increase and not expect something else to happen, maybe there is a downregulation later on in the day also.

Don't take chronically.

The Journal of Neuroscience, May 1, 2000, 20(9):3147-3156


Slow Death of Postnatal Hippocampal Neurons by GABAA Receptor Overactivation
Wanyan Xu1, Robert Cormier1, Tao Fu1, Douglas F. Covey2, Keith E. Isenberg1, Charles F. Zorumski1, 3, and Steven Mennerick1, 3
Departments of 1 Psychiatry, 2 Molecular Biology and Pharmacology, and 3 Anatomy and Neurobiology, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110


ABSTRACT
Neurotransmitters can have both toxic and trophic functions in addition to their role in neural signaling. Surprisingly, chronic blockade of GABAA receptor activity for 5-8 d in vitro enhanced survival of hippocampal neurons, suggesting that GABAA receptor overactivation may be neurotoxic. Potentiating GABAA receptor activity by chronic treatment with the endogenous neurosteroid (3,5)-3-hydroxypregnan-20-one caused massive cell loss over 1 week in culture. Other potentiators of GABAA receptors, including benzodiazepines, mimicked the cell loss, suggesting that potentiating endogenous GABA activity is sufficient to produce neuronal death. Neurosteroid-treated neurons had lower resting intracellular calcium levels than control cells and produced smaller calcium rises in response to depolarizing challenges. Manipulating intracellular calcium levels with chronic elevated extracellular potassium or with the calcium channel agonist Bay K 8644 protected neurons. The results may have implications for the mechanisms of programmed cell death in the developing CNS as well as implications for the long-term consequences of chronic GABAmimetic drug use during development.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by ElMariachi

I have been taking GABA, melatonin and tyrosine pre-workout for a couple of weeks now, and I've noticed that my recovery has definitely improved a lot more from where it was. I'm going to go further with some more punishing workouts to really test this out, but it seems to have worked thus far, and no sleepiness/exhaustion to speak of.



*As mentioned, you really don't want to be mixing stimulants with GABA, kind of defeats the whole purpose.

First thought comes to my mind is that GABA coupled with tyrosine would be contradictory also. The enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase is rate limiting for dopamine production, it converts l-tyrosine to l-dopa which gets further converted to catecholamines. This should inhibit further GABA binding. However I know it much more complicated so I will do some digging, maybe tyrosine hydroxylase is more active when there is more GABA (this would make sense as a balance mechanism) so maybe your success with it could be GABA binding immediately, upregulation of tyrosine hydroxylase, enhanced catecholamine production, suppressed GABA when finished with workout.


Why the melatonin?

[jason1052004]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

Why the melatonin?

I've hear people taking it preworkout for increased GH levels, but once again that returns to the same question as the GABA about IGF-1 increasing too.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by jason1052004

I've hear people taking it preworkout for increased GH levels, but once again that returns to the same question as the GABA about IGF-1 increasing too.

That was because of an article in a dumb magazine based on one study that ignored the rest of the research. There is a thread on here that pretty much debunks that. Do a search with my username and melatonin.

I don't know how you people can take stuff that relaxes you before a workout.

I think most of the GABA preworkout thing is based on this:

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise:Volume 35(5) Supplement 1May 2003p S271
THE EFFECTS OF GAMMA AMINOBUTYRIC ACID ON GROWTH HORMONE SECRETION AT REST AND FOLLOWING EXERCISE
[F-12L FREE COMMUNICATION/POSTER ERGOGENIC AIDS]
Powers, M E.1; Borst, S E.1; McCoy, S C.1; Conway, R1; Yarrow, J1

At rest GABA didn't boost GH. Only potentiated exercise release. However there are only 7 subjects. There are a couple olders studies but definitely not enough to promote its use in this manner, IMHO.

[GeneGnomeX]

Also caveat for diabetics (or potentially beneficial depending what full text says):

1: Metabolism. 1982 Jan;31(1):73-7. Related Articles, Links


Effects of gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) and muscimol on endocrine pancreatic function in man.

Cavagnini F, Pinto M, Dubini A, Invitti C, Cappelletti G, Polli EE.

The high concentrations of gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) in the pancreatic islets and the neurotransmitter role played by this amino acid in the central nervous system, make it plausible that GABA also intervenes in the control of endocrine pancreatic function. In 12 normal subjects, a single oral dose of 5 or 10 g GABA, as compared to placebo, caused a significant (p less than 0.01) and dose-dependent (p less than 0.01) increase of plasma levels of immunoreactive insulin, C peptide and glucagon, without affecting plasma glucose concentration. By contrast, in 15 additional subjects, a single oral dose of 5 mg muscimol, a specific GABA receptor agonist, did not consistently influence the above parameters. Although the lack of effects of muscimol might indicate that the action of GABA is not mediated through specific receptors, the results with GABA suggest that this amino acid plays a specific role in the regulation of endocrine pancreatic function.

im gonna go grab the full text of this

[GeneGnomeX]

White flood writeup:

GABA is an important neurotransmitter that has been used for years as an ergogenic aid. When combined with the stimulants in our exclusive formula, users report a very unique effect that must be experienced to believe, due to enhanced neuron firing in the brain. Users report focused, relaxed, energy without the jitters often associated with stimulant use. GABA has also been shown to boost post-workout growth hormone levels and enhance fat metabolism (more research is needed on the exact mechanism of action).

GABA clearly inhibits neuron firing, CL can you substantiate this?

[G.B. Ripped]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

I don't know how you people can take stuff that relaxes you before a workout.

I've stopped the pre-workout GABA until I have time to look into more, based on the concerns you raised on this a couple weeks ago. But I'm telling ya... if you get lifting before the relaxation kicks in, it doesn't slow you down like a pre-bed dose does. It was actually surprising the first time.

[Mike83]

i used it pre-workout, it works nice. Actually gave me more focus.


Dont flame me, but one time i used ghb pre-workout, it made me stronger, but i used too strong of dose and was too relaxed after a few sets.

There has been a study showing even a small amount of ghb pre-workout increases gh quite nicely.

[Germanic]

Originally Posted by Amino89

I've searched and searched and found little on GABA supplementation pre-workout all the threads were for nighttime induce of sleep. How many mg./g. are taking pre-workout? How come pre-workout formulas do not include this in their ingredient list if it's so good? I have never heard this until I saw pu12eng recommend it pre-workout.

I've thought about taking GABA pre-workout before, (for added hgh secretion) but I dunno, I doubt it would have any serious effect.

[bigrig44]

Originally Posted by Mike83

i used it pre-workout, it works nice. Actually gave me more focus.


Dont flame me, but one time i used ghb pre-workout, it made me stronger, but i used too strong of dose and was too relaxed after a few sets.

There has been a study showing even a small amount of ghb pre-workout increases gh quite nicely.

Thats what I've read in other posts as well that it does help you focus a lot more.
I've got a question on this though as far as mixing it preworkout with beta-alanine...both make you feel tingly...is there going to be any type of counteracting or what?

[Rodzilla]

I hate gaba pre-workout..once I get into the workout I'm ok..but I don't like being relaxed up to it.

[quank]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

White flood writeup:

Quote:
GABA is an important neurotransmitter that has been used for years as an ergogenic aid. When combined with the stimulants in our exclusive formula, users report a very unique effect that must be experienced to believe, due to enhanced neuron firing in the brain. Users report focused, relaxed, energy without the jitters often associated with stimulant use. GABA has also been shown to boost post-workout growth hormone levels and enhance fat metabolism (more research is needed on the exact mechanism of action).

GABA clearly inhibits neuron firing, CL can you substantiate this?

so that's why i was feeling weird with every serving of White Flood and all this time i thought it was the caffeine amount.

[bhabig54]

I just learned about GABA recently, would taking it post workout instead of preworkout be pointless? I can't take it preworkout, I get too relaxed...

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by bhabig54

I just learned about GABA recently, would taking it post workout instead of preworkout be pointless? I can't take it preworkout, I get too relaxed...

Depends on your goals...

In this context, pop it immediately pre-workout or look into a better formula / combo

[neuron]

What would be the point of GABA supplementation when one considers the fact that a lot of people consume pre-workout drinks containing insulinogenic ingredients?

I think this study (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=315) clearly indicates that GH is not a necessary component to muscular anabolism.

[fa3262]

You guys mentioned taking it pre-workout yet to finish the workout before the sedative effect kicks in. in this case, when would the best time be to take GABA, approx how long before workout. i will also b taking it at night before bed. how long b4 bed would i take this aswell. i will be tapering it up to 2 doses of 4-5g in order to get into the 5-18g per day range. thanks