attn newbs: fullbody routines CANNOT be beaten

[best regards]

Alright we're gonna settle this once and for all. As a newb, your goal is to put on overall mass. Bodypart splits are NOT going to achieve this. They were originally created by professional bodybuilders who have 280+ pounds of muscle on them and want to "shape" certain muscles in their body. But if you're some 145-pound weakling such as myself all you should worry about is putting on mass. And your priorities should not change until your in the pros. You do NOT need to worry about hitting certain heads of certain muscle. The ENTIRE muscle, including all the heads, will grow to their maximum potential doing the compound exercises. Direct isolation work is NOT needed as it will make the muscle grow minimally if at all. And if you absolutely MUST do some type of a split, do an upper/lower 2x a week as that would produce similar results. Your body releases certain growth hormones when working out. And the more muscle fiber that's worked, the more growth hormones will be released. Which is why when doing a fullbody routine, every exercise you do will support every muscle to grow faster. One great routine is the 5x5 program: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm
It is an excellent program that will make you not only bigger, but much stronger as well. If you however choose to make your own routine make one as follows:

On Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, you will work the entire body. You will pick one exercise from each group:

2 Sets: Upper Push: Bench Presses, Inc. Bench Presses, Declined Bench Presses, Dips, Close-Grip Bench Presses
2 Sets: Upper Pull: Chin-ups, Pull-ups, Rows
2-3 Sets: Lower: Squats, Front Squats, Deadlifts, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts

Edit: You may add in a ONE or TWO sets of direct bicep, tricep, calf, and trap work each week as needed. Also, add in 2 or 3 sets of direct shoulder work in one of those days.

And if anyone has something they'd like to add to this please post.

[stillskinny]

i agree. once ive switched to rippetoes fullbody workout im gaining like crazy. up 5 lbs in 2 weeks

[ukstrongman]

squats and milk is a 3times a week full body routine. It is the best for noobs IMO.

[Rambo26]

I just started the intermediate 5x5 one

I especially want strength in the big 3!

[n00bi3]

i just started rippetoes (journal in sig) and so far my lifts have gone up and i feel great too

[Joshua_H]

It is rare wise words are spoken in this section.

[weights4life]

I don't think it's necessarily better to do full body workouts all the time, just a different way to work out.

I mean, if you just start lifting weights and you have no muscle on you at all, then yes, do full body workouts and create a foundation of muscle for a few weeks.

Spilt routines are for after you get that foundation, THEN you can start concentrating on individual muscle groups, and get certain muscles bigger/stronger.

You can't say split routines won't give you gains because almost everyone in this site does a split routine, and all have stuff to show for it.

[infamous_kid]

I AGREE that full body workouts and splits are different ways to train.
I've been doing splits since the begining and have increased in size and strength.

Now, if you've been getting bored of splits you can train full body workout TO SHOCK YOU MUSCLES INTO GROWTH. And then go back to splits when u get bored of full body workouts.

[DLStar64]

aren't you the kid that was going to follow contest prep to try and lose water retention by upping sodium in the contest prep to try and get ready for a pool party? haha that was great.

[best regards]

Alright for those of you with sensible posts, I agree splits do have their place. but fullbody routine are better for overall mass. Period. And the thing with "shocking the muscles" I believe can be achieved by switching up the rep ranges, taking time off, etc. Your body grows faster as whole, rather than muscle-by-muscle, which is why I believe split routine are pointless unless you have quite a bit of mass to start with. Because they are not optimal for building mass.

[DLStar64]

beginning=yes
not beginning= no

ok case settled.

[WCC]

if it's so good then why is there no traps or neck work?
shrugs? neck curls and neck extensions?

and why no pullups for lats? pullups are great.

i also don't like the way it says 'incline or military' - why not both? so some weeks, shoulders don't even get worked at all?

[Torque757]

Originally Posted by best regards

Alright for those of you with sensible posts, I agree splits do have their place. but fullbody routine are better for overall mass. Period. And the thing with "shocking the muscles" I believe can be achieved by switching up the rep ranges, taking time off, etc. Your body grows faster as whole, rather than muscle-by-muscle, which is why I believe split routine are pointless unless you have quite a bit of mass to start with. Because they are not optimal for building mass.

Great posts, after lifting for a while you mimght switch to an upper/lower split, and then on to a powerlifting split. I have seen countless powerlifters cut down and dominate at bb shows, they do no isolation work and are their muscles shapelss, are there certain heads underdevloped? **** no there arent, they are just as proportional and shapely and filled in and almost always thicker than their competition. Split routines can work, but powerlifting and upper/lower can work just as well, if not in some cases better.

[Torque757]

Originally Posted by WCC

if it's so good then why is there no traps or neck work?
shrugs? neck curls and neck extensions?

and why no pullups for lats? pullups are great.

i also don't like the way it says 'incline or military' - why not both? so some weeks, shoulders don't even get worked at all?

Traps will get hit enough in deads and rows for growth, I havnt done shrugs in I dont know how long and they are bigger than ever, shrugs WITH THIS TYPE of routine are highly unecesarry to achieve plenty of stimulation for hypertrophy, I agree with pullups they should be included and shoulders are hit enough with incline that they can grow withuot getting directly every week.

[best regards]

wcc, the reason there's no pull-ups is he has it so you work up to a max set. you cant do that with pullups or chinups unless you have a machine

dlstar, please stop posting on here you are an idiot, assuming you're not a troll.

[Lifter X]

i think opposite i went through a stage where i was short on time and did a full body split with all compounds and i just didnt have the juicesometimes to do bench with igh weight then milltary press with high weight and same for squats and deads i think if you incorpate heavy compounds and some isos along with alot of barbell and 2 hand dumbell work you shall be fine

[WCC]

****, my fukking internet is fukked up and it won't let me quote.

anyway, Torque757, i think neck exercises should be done. building your neck is, IMO, just as important as building up any other muscle. a good upper body with toothpick legs looks stupid just in the same way a pencil neck on top of a good upper body looks stupid.
the neck is by far the most neglected muscle in bodybuilding.

i'm training mine 3 times a week along with traps. i do a 3 day split (Monday, Wednesday, Friday), and i add in neck and traps work on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

[best regards]

wcc, its not ur computer its the site I cant either

and you dont need trap work 3x a week if they're being worked with shoulder work and deadlifts greatly. on weeks where, perhaps, you arent doing deads for some reason you could add in a few sets of shrugs. but if not I wouldnt put more than a set or two a week extra. and I agree about the neck thing I'm starting to work it too.

[TheStuddMuffin]

Wait, who doesn't use a fullbody routine? Typically most people train their whole body.

If you are talking about fullbody workouts then I disagree. Splitting up bodyparts is a very wise way to go about building mass. Sticking all the bodyparts into one workout is not the best. You can split up bodyparts while working them atleast twice a week, you just have to stick a few together.

Is this what you're talking about?

[Vietgoboi]

i do the 5day split. weighting at 170 is ok ?

[IraHays]

A rare great post to find in this section. Thankfully my coach in highschool outlawed iso work. If he saw you curling, you would be running laps. lol Squats 3 times a week were mandatory.

Rock on, you won't regret it.

[Torque757]

Iso's are completely unecessary, Progessively heaveir(constantly getting stronger, even if your just using the 2.5"s to add 5 lbs) loads on compounds plus low volme will lead to growth. As long as your intensity is in the right spot, you will always have enugh"juice" to complete your lifts.

Iso's are not completely useless, and are fine to work in every now and then, but are completetly unecessary for a large, well devloped and proportional physique.

[Torque757]

YOU ARE 160 LBS, you dont need to be worrying about the neck so much. Secondly, did you completely ignore what i said? The neck/traps will be hit very hard with deadlifts and rows, PLENTY FOR GORWTH, you are not neglecting your neck by not doing any direct work. You show me one ****ing person who goes from 160 to 190,200 or more doing mainly compounds and not directly hitting the neck and show me one ****ing weak point, ah **** theres not one, big suprise.

[best regards]

studdmuffin, splitingyour bodyparts up throughout the week is not a good way to gain mass. it's better to do your entire body 3x a week as it has been proven your muscles grow better being broken down more frequently then being hit hard once a week or whatever you're doing. also, the growth hormone release after working your whole body is terrific.

[TheStuddMuffin]

It's a proven fact that hitting your muscle twice a week is the best way to go about it. And actually I just read an article from Iron Addict explaining just that.

Which way you go about it is up to you. No, I do not find it necessary to hit full body workouts three times a week. I find that I do not create full muscle fiber breakdown and full recovery as hitting moderate volume, high workload twice a week. Intense workloads twice a week has been the fundementals of my routine for quite some time.

[best regards]

well there are many ways to go about it. you say you do an upper/lower split? that would be relatively close to a fullbody 3x a week. the audience I was mainly targeting with this is the newbs that have

monday - biceps
tuesday - chest
wednesday - legs
thursday - triceps
friday - shoulders
saturday - forarms
sunday - abs

if you know what I'm saying.

[TheStuddMuffin]

Oh I know what you're saying. No, I do not use an upper/lower split.

My Routine:
Monday: Back/Shoulders, Forearms
Tuesday: Chest, Abs
Wednesday: Legs
Thursday: Back/Shoulders, Forearms
Friday: Chest, Abs
Saturday: Arms

I find this to be much more productive than a fullbody split. However, if it works then it works. Engaging the workload is just as important as engaging how frequent you work the muscle. My training isn't as simple as just lifting a weight x amount of times.

[WCC]

Torque757, isolation exercises are not unnecessary. they have their place in bodybuilding.
up until around March, i was only using military presses for my shoulders. since i added in raises, my shoulders have been growing much faster. isolation lifts are very useful in bodybuilding.

as for neck training, say what you want about it. i personally treat neck extensions and neck curls with the same importance as squats and deadlifts. i want a strong, thick neck. neck injuries can happen to anyone; i want to minimise the risk of injury. plus, i don't want to look like a geek.

i train neck and traps 3 times a week because they respond fast to exercise. they grow and repair very quickly, and i find i can get very god results by training them frequently.
it's not overtraining at all. i'm doing 18 sets a week for neck, and my neck's grown 2" in the 2 months i've been working it. it's 17" now.

[WCC]

TheStuddMuffin, i also prefer splits.
you can't compare full-body workouts to splits. they both have their strong points.
Mentzer preferred full-body workouts. Arnold preferred splits.
they both have different philosophies but great physiques.

my split is getting me great results.

[TheStuddMuffin]

I agree WCC. Isolations do have their place in the line of bodybuilding, and are much needed after some time. But you have to agree that they are crap unless knowing how to use them correctly.

And isolations have taken my strength to the next level. So when saying it helps with nothing in the strength category, it does. Why not top Clean & Press with dropsets of Front Raises? If you use isolations correctly, you can fully engage muscle exhaustion & muscle fiber breakdown (of two different muscle fibers).